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HawkISox
06-06-2005, 01:50 PM
I think the stadium should have been in the burbs (Especially when I lived in Naperville), but I do agree it will get better.

Interesting.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/rockies/article/0,1299,DRMN_19_3833479,00.html

Frater Perdurabo
06-06-2005, 02:05 PM
In addition to the redevelopment the article mentioned, things will change significantly if and when the Metra station is built on the Rock Island line at 35th Street. When it's built, I'll bet an average of 1,500 more people would attend each weeknight game, and more weekend and summer games would get 35,000+ in attendance.

nitetrain8601
06-06-2005, 02:08 PM
Don't hold your breath for that Metra stop. Metra is government owned and they lose tons of cash each year. They would have to spend more money on that which means an increase in taxes for building the stop and paying conductors and engineers for more hours.

Frater Perdurabo
06-06-2005, 02:38 PM
Don't hold your breath for that Metra stop. Metra is government owned and they lose tons of cash each year. They would have to spend more money on that which means an increase in taxes for building the stop and paying conductors and engineers for more hours.

Last time I read anything about it, Metra was getting ready to cave in to south side politicians who wanted the stop. Also, such a stop would help fill some of the "reverse commute" northbound trains in the afternoons and late night southbound trains with fare-paying Sox fans. At worst they might have to add one train, at best they could re-work the schedule after 10 p.m. and add a few cars to accommodate the multitudes of Sox fans headed back to the South/Southwest suburbs.

MUScholar21
06-06-2005, 02:56 PM
There is absolutely NO WAY Metra would lose money. You have to spend money to make money, and I am absolutely sure that after the startup costs, they would be making money off all the people who would rather take the train than sit in traffic on the Ryan. Not to mention when all the drunken jackasses come out on Monday nights, they wouldn't have to worry about who was driving home.

GregoryEtc
06-06-2005, 02:59 PM
Monorail

Lyle Lanley: Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine,
Bona fide, Electrified, Six-car Monorail!
What'd I say?
Ned Flanders: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: What's it called?
Patty+Selma: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: That's right! Monorail!
[crowd chants `Monorail' softly and rhythmically]
Miss Hoover: I hear those things are awfully loud...
Lyle Lanley: It glides as softly as a cloud.
Apu: Is there a chance the track could bend?
Lyle Lanley: Not on your life, my Hindu friend.
Barney: What about us brain-dead slobs?
Lyle Lanley: You'll be given cushy jobs.
Abe: Were you sent here by the devil?
Lyle Lanley: No, good sir, I'm on the level.
Wiggum: The ring came off my pudding can.
Lyle Lanley: Take my pen knife, my good man.
I swear it's Springfield's only choice...
Throw up your hands and raise your voice!
All: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: What's it called?
All: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: Once again...
All: Monorail!
Marge: But Main Street's still all cracked and broken...
Bart: Sorry, Mom, the mob has spoken!
All: Monorail!
Monorail!
Monorail!

Monorail!
[b]Homer: Mono... D'oh!

Madvora
06-06-2005, 03:01 PM
I don't get it. What in the world is this doing in the Rocky Mountain News?
What do these people care about how the Sox almost moved to the suburbs?

MRKARNO
06-06-2005, 03:05 PM
I don't get it. What in the world is this doing in the Rocky Mountain News?

We're playing the Rockies for a set of three and they found this interesting.

cheeses_h_rice
06-06-2005, 03:14 PM
I think the stadium should have been in the burbs (Especially when I lived in Naperville), but I do agree it will get better.



I for one am glad the Sox stayed in the city. I shudder at the thought of the holier-than-thou insults that would rain down from Flub fans because their team is the only true city of Chicago team.

:moron

"Sterile ballmall, in a sterile suburb of a sterile county blahblahblahblah"

Huisj
06-06-2005, 03:17 PM
Fans in colorado seem to be more interested in the team the rockies play rather than the rockies. last year, I went to a game there against the red sox, and the place was almost entirely filled up with red sox apparel. there were even ads on the radio telling red sox fans what bars to go to after the game, and they were calling the place "fenway west." it was insane.

Tekijawa
06-06-2005, 03:38 PM
Fans in colorado seem to be more interested in the team the rockies play rather than the rockies. last year, I went to a game there against the red sox, and the place was almost entirely filled up with red sox apparel. there were even ads on the radio telling red sox fans what bars to go to after the game, and they were calling the place "fenway west." it was insane.


19-36

I think I'd be interested in any other option available also!

HawkISox
06-06-2005, 04:13 PM
I for one am glad the Sox stayed in the city. I shudder at the thought of the holier-than-thou insults that would rain down from Flub fans because their team is the only true city of Chicago team.

:moron

"Sterile ballmall, in a sterile suburb of a sterile county blahblahblahblah"

The Sox would be drawing a lot better...There is no doubt. Cubs fans are going to squawk no matter what.

Pulaski
06-06-2005, 04:25 PM
I don't get it. What in the world is this doing in the Rocky Mountain News?
What do these people care about how the Sox almost moved to the suburbs?

First time the Sox are playing the Rockies at Coors Field.

elrod
06-06-2005, 04:26 PM
The only other stadium location idea that made sense was the South Loop. At least you could have people walk there from downtown, with tons of Metra trains coming in. Plus, the area has developed so much the last 15 years.

Hangar18
06-06-2005, 04:30 PM
You have to spend money to make money,


I dont think Uncle Jerry got this memo

MUScholar21
06-06-2005, 04:55 PM
I dont think Uncle Jerry got this memo

That is definitely true. However, you would hope that Metra would look at the Jerry Reinsdorf/Bill Wirtz theory of business, and the commonly accepted model, and pick which one seems to be more profitable. All they need to do is look 8 miles north to see the convenience created by accessibility to public transportation. Then he could consider selling the team to a media outlet to sway public opinion.

kevingrt
06-06-2005, 05:13 PM
We're playing the Rockies for a set of three and they found this interesting.

We're becoming the new Yankees and Red Sox of the world. Everyone wants to see us

The Racehorse
06-06-2005, 06:28 PM
Reinsdorf said the team "absolutely" would have been better off the past 10 years had it been in Addison but, "Ten years from now, I think we'll be better off where we are."


I can EASILY see myself living in Chicago in 10 years or so. Who was it that said "all good things come to those who wait?" ... :bandance:

downstairs
06-06-2005, 06:38 PM
Hmmmmm. I still believe the Sox should be in the 'burbs. It just makes no sense being on the south side, and hasn't for 20, 30 years.

I'll support them no matter what. And, of course as a suburbanite I am biased. But there are as many people living in the 'burbs as the city itself.

Let the Flubs be the city team, and let the other half root for the non-city team.

Oh, well. Its not like they're going to move from the south side for another few decades...

ewokpelts
06-06-2005, 07:52 PM
That is definitely true. However, you would hope that Metra would look at the Jerry Reinsdorf/Bill Wirtz theory of business, and the commonly accepted model, and pick which one seems to be more profitable. All they need to do is look 8 miles north to see the convenience created by accessibility to public transportation. Then he could consider selling the team to a media outlet to sway public opinion.
um...you know that cta rail line by wrigley? it also stops at comiskey.....
also, a lot of people DRIVE TO WRIGLEY....they just park at mcdonalds for 40 bucks...
Gene

bludupree
06-06-2005, 10:56 PM
Hmmmmm. I still believe the Sox should be in the 'burbs. It just makes no sense being on the south side, and hasn't for 20, 30 years.

I'll support them no matter what. And, of course as a suburbanite I am biased. But there are as many people living in the 'burbs as the city itself.

Let the Flubs be the city team, and let the other half root for the non-city team.

Oh, well. Its not like they're going to move from the south side for another few decades...

I am obviously biased the other way, but I think this is a bad idea. I agree it would be convenient for the millions of suburbanites but it would take away from the whole experience to be in the middle of nowhere. The southside is also convenient for the south city, north city, and the south suburbs.

Although you could grab a lot of suburban fans I think that is the only upside. As south side real estate continues to increase in value I think our fan base will expand and attendence will increase. I would also much rather have my stadium 3 miles from the center of one of the world's greatest cities than in the middle of some suburb.

Norberto7
06-06-2005, 11:20 PM
I would also much rather have my stadium 3 miles from the center of one of the world's greatest cities than in the middle of some suburb.


Actually, the center of Cicero is about 7 miles from the park. Otherwise, I agree with your post. From where I live it would only be about 25 minutes to the Addison location, but I think it's a better experience to go into the city to watch the game. More how it should be, I think. One of the good things about not going a whole bunch is the traffic is more managable because I'm not doing it all the time.

cubhater
06-07-2005, 07:09 AM
um...you know that cta rail line by wrigley? it also stops at comiskey.....
also, a lot of people DRIVE TO WRIGLEY....they just park at mcdonalds for 40 bucks...
Gene

Bingo! Not to mention the 35th St. bus for those who take the Orange Line, the State and Wentworth buses coming from downtown, and it's convenient arriving from three major expressways.

People have to be nuts driving to a Cub's game with the gridlock and jacked-up parking prices. Then of course they're not the smartest group of people we know.

Hitmen77
06-07-2005, 08:14 AM
Don't hold your breath for that Metra stop. Metra is government owned and they lose tons of cash each year. They would have to spend more money on that which means an increase in taxes for building the stop and paying conductors and engineers for more hours.

I think you are confusing Metra with the CTA. Metra has a balanced budget and doesn't lose tons of cash each year.

Hitmen77
06-07-2005, 08:19 AM
Monorail

Lyle Lanley: Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine,
Bona fide, Electrified, Six-car Monorail!
What'd I say?
Ned Flanders: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: What's it called?
.
.
.
All: Monorail!
Monorail!
Monorail!

Monorail!
[b]Homer: Mono... D'oh!

That's too funny! "Mono=One and Rail=Rail"

Johnny Mostil
06-07-2005, 08:26 AM
Hmmmmm. I still believe the Sox should be in the 'burbs. It just makes no sense being on the south side, and hasn't for 20, 30 years.

I'll support them no matter what. And, of course as a suburbanite I am biased. But there are as many people living in the 'burbs as the city itself.

Let the Flubs be the city team, and let the other half root for the non-city team.

Oh, well. Its not like they're going to move from the south side for another few decades...

Not me. I'm in the 'burbs, closer to Addison than 35th and Shields, and I never would have set foot in a Sox park there.

Paxson93
06-07-2005, 08:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ewokpelts
um...you know that cta rail line by wrigley? it also stops at comiskey.....
also, a lot of people DRIVE TO WRIGLEY....they just park at mcdonalds for 40 bucks...
Gene



Bingo! Not to mention the 35th St. bus for those who take the Orange Line, the State and Wentworth buses coming from downtown, and it's convenient arriving from three major expressways.




Yeah but if you are talking about people from the far suburbs the CTA isn't very helpful for them. They have to drive quite a ways to get to an el stop & often there is very little parking. With the Metra stop it would be a breeze (plus considerably more convinent for those of us who don't live far outside the city, but take the Metra to work. :D: )

dickallen15
06-07-2005, 08:46 AM
The perfect location for the park would have been the south Loop location. It would have been right by the river, open to the skyline, convenient to the train stations, convenient to those working downtown. They could have built a riverwalk from Michigan Ave. and had Wendella boats drop you off at the stadium. It would be just as full as the Urinal.

cubhater
06-07-2005, 09:20 AM
Yeah but if you are talking about people from the far suburbs the CTA isn't very helpful for them. They have to drive quite a ways to get to an el stop & often there is very little parking. With the Metra stop it would be a breeze (plus considerably more convinent for those of us who don't live far outside the city, but take the Metra to work. :D: )

Trust me, a Metra stop at 35th/Dan Ryan makes perfect sense and not just for Sox games. It would be a convenient link to the Red and Green Lines and more people are moving into gentrifying Bridgeport and Bronzeville. Stateway and Taylor homes are almost a thing of the past and the eventual new homes at 35th/ State will bring in plenty of working professionals who would benefit from a Metra station at that location.

skobabe8
06-07-2005, 09:38 AM
That's too funny! "Mono=One and Rail=Rail"

"I call the big one Bitey."

MUScholar21
06-07-2005, 09:42 AM
um...you know that cta rail line by wrigley? it also stops at comiskey.....
also, a lot of people DRIVE TO WRIGLEY....they just park at mcdonalds for 40 bucks...
Gene

No, I know that the Red Line has a stop at Comiskey, but Wrigley has access from all directions via the El. You can basically only come from the North to go to the Cell, which as we all know is not the Sox' fan base. The Metra could pick up this slack, and make Comiskey a $6 train ride away for most people.

cubhater
06-07-2005, 11:41 AM
No, I know that the Red Line has a stop at Comiskey, but Wrigley has access from all directions via the El. You can basically only come from the North to go to the Cell, which as we all know is not the Sox' fan base. The Metra could pick up this slack, and make Comiskey a $6 train ride away for most people.

Ummmmmm.....can't fans hop on the Red Line south of The Cell when going to games? I think there are about seven stations south of 35th.:rolleyes:

FredManrique
06-07-2005, 12:00 PM
Fans in colorado seem to be more interested in the team the rockies play rather than the rockies. last year, I went to a game there against the red sox, and the place was almost entirely filled up with red sox apparel. there were even ads on the radio telling red sox fans what bars to go to after the game, and they were calling the place "fenway west." it was insane.

That happened last year when the Red Sox fans played the Giants. Suddenly San Francisco was filled with Red Sox fans. What a bunch of jack offs.

ewokpelts
06-07-2005, 12:25 PM
No, I know that the Red Line has a stop at Comiskey, but Wrigley has access from all directions via the El. You can basically only come from the North to go to the Cell, which as we all know is not the Sox' fan base. The Metra could pick up this slack, and make Comiskey a $6 train ride away for most people.you can get there from the southwest...orangeline to 35th bus...or orangeline to red/green line....i got buddies in teh west burbs that use the green line from harlem all the way to 35th.
Gene

Fenway
06-07-2005, 12:28 PM
JR's comments make sense, it is a shame he had to say them 1000 miles away.

Of course he tries to put tghe blame on Washington when the truth is the voters of addison voted the project down.

He is probably right about a decade from now, the area around USCF will be developed, the park will only be 25 years old and by then Wrigley may have fallen down.

mrfourni
06-07-2005, 01:08 PM
I take the Metra rock island to and from work every day, and have noticed that a lot of work has been done around the area near 35th street. Does anyone know if the work could possibly be related to a future stop?


Hope I don't just have wishful thinking

kj.hayes
06-07-2005, 01:11 PM
The perfect location for the park would have been the south Loop location. It would have been right by the river, open to the skyline, convenient to the train stations, convenient to those working downtown. They could have built a riverwalk from Michigan Ave. and had Wendella boats drop you off at the stadium. It would be just as full as the Urinal.

No question that a facility in the South Loop would have led to greater attendance, especially given the massive amount of residential development happening in that area in past few years. My understanding however was that a Sox Park in the South Loop was only going to happen if it was constructed as multi-use facility that would have been shared by the Bears. Can anybody confirm/deny this? I may be getting my history confused. If that was the case and such a facility had been constructed, I think it would have been pretty awful--a Chicago version of the HHH Dome. Ugh.

Found this online yesterday--Philip Bess' late-80's plan for building a new White Sox park, "Armour Field" on the land immediately north of old Comiskey. A lot of you may have already seen this, but I thought it was fascinating--it even calls for the diamond of the original park to remain intact and open for public use!

http://www.thursdayarchitects.com/Baseball%20Projects/armour_field.htm

SaltyPretzel
06-07-2005, 01:16 PM
My understanding however was that a Sox Park in the South Loop was only going to happen if it was constructed as multi-use facility that would have been shared by the Bears. Can anybody confirm/deny this?



I remember the mixed use facility with the Bears also. It had movable seats like Mile High Stadium in Denver. If it had been built, we'd probably be looking for another stadium already.

kj.hayes
06-07-2005, 01:38 PM
I don't get it. What in the world is this doing in the Rocky Mountain News?
What do these people care about how the Sox almost moved to the suburbs?

Jerry and Eddie also scouted Denver as a possible new market for the White Sox around the same time that they were talking of moving the team to Fla.

Frater Perdurabo
06-07-2005, 03:18 PM
Found this online yesterday--Philip Bess' late-80's plan for building a new White Sox park, "Armour Field" on the land immediately north of old Comiskey. A lot of you may have already seen this, but I thought it was fascinating--it even calls for the diamond of the original park to remain intact and open for public use!

http://www.thursdayarchitects.com/Baseball%20Projects/armour_field.htm


You didn't even have to look that far away for "Armour Field," you could have stayed here at WSI (http://whitesoxinteractive.com/FixComiskey/Bess/Conversation1.htm)!

However, I must say the additional schematics at the site you linked are interesting as well.

Of course, if Armour Field had been built, Dan Pasqua would have become the all-time Sox home run king thanks to his dead-pull power to right field, while Frank Thomas would have become a right-handed doubles hitter by taking advantage of the cavernous space between right-center and left-center. Of course, the Sox would need to find a Juan Pierre-like CF to cover that much ground out there!

Foulke You
06-07-2005, 07:06 PM
You didn't even have to look that far away for "Armour Field," you could have stayed here at WSI (http://whitesoxinteractive.com/FixComiskey/Bess/Conversation1.htm)!

However, I must say the additional schematics at the site you linked are interesting as well.

Of course, if Armour Field had been built, Dan Pasqua would have become the all-time Sox home run king thanks to his dead-pull power to right field, while Frank Thomas would have become a right-handed doubles hitter by taking advantage of the cavernous space between right-center and left-center. Of course, the Sox would need to find a Juan Pierre-like CF to cover that much ground out there!
We also would also have two Fenway-esque "Pesky Poles" in each of the two outfield corners which would have made for plenty of 295 ft HR dinks off the posts. Armour would definitely have been a unique looking ballpark however, I am quite fond of New Comiskey Park post renovations. It really is a great park, and after 14 yrs it feels like home for our team.

skobabe8
06-07-2005, 07:41 PM
We also would also have two Fenway-esque "Pesky Poles" in each of the two outfield corners which would have made for plenty of 295 ft HR dinks off the posts. Armour would definitely have been a unique looking ballpark however, I am quite fond of New Comiskey Park post renovations. It really is a great park, and after 14 yrs it feels like home for our team.

I thought the concept of Armour Park was a good one, and probably ahead of its time. But i dont care for the design of the ballpark.

UofCSoxFan
06-08-2005, 01:19 AM
There is absolutely NO WAY Metra would lose money. You have to spend money to make money, and I am absolutely sure that after the startup costs, they would be making money off all the people who would rather take the train than sit in traffic on the Ryan. Not to mention when all the drunken jackasses come out on Monday nights, they wouldn't have to worry about who was driving home.

The entire public transit system in Chicago and the suburbs receives hundreds of millions of dollars in government subsidies to stay afloat. Without such subsidies a metra ticket from the suburbs would cost about 10 dollars more per ride. Chances are the rail system would fold. This is why public goods exsit, because they are not profitable under normal market conditions but the government still deams them necessary. So in all fairness, there is NO WAY Metra would MAKE money on this....but that's not the point of Metra.

ewokpelts
06-08-2005, 01:37 AM
I thought the concept of Armour Park was a good one, and probably ahead of its time. But i dont care for the design of the ballpark.
too much like memorial stadium in urbana

UofCSoxFan
06-08-2005, 02:15 AM
I think you are confusing Metra with the CTA. Metra has a balanced budget and doesn't lose tons of cash each year.

While the each have their own budgets, metra, cta, and pace all fall under a master chicago transit adminitstration body (don't recall the proper name off the top of my head). THis master group is given a budget and the seperate entites are given sub-budgets from this. Now how much the budgets are officially interrelated depend on who you talk to.

Metra opposses CTA budget increases b/c the suspect (reasonably) that cta will take the money from metra. CTA on the other had argues that the money could come from elsewhere (not likely seeing how the governor has promsed not to increase taxes).

One of CTA's biggest beefs is that metra tickets are subsidized much more as a percentage of total cost of providing a trip than CTA is.

I have a pretty frirm understanding of the problem as I have met the President of the CTA.

Bisco Stu
06-08-2005, 11:47 PM
I for one am glad the Sox stayed in the city. I shudder at the thought of the holier-than-thou insults that would rain down from Flub fans because their team is the only true city of Chicago team.

:moron

"Sterile ballmall, in a sterile suburb of a sterile county blahblahblahblah"

cosigned. The suburbs ain't Chi. Never have been, never will be.

"Chicagoland? Is that near Estonia or something?"

CLSoxFan
06-09-2005, 01:18 AM
I live in Crystal Lake, and I think the Sox oughta be in the city. Why is the Rocky Mountain News talking about this? Is Bernie Lincicome still pissed about the Trib not giving him more dough? this is a lot like the attendance hand-wringing about The Cell. Who gives a rip? The team is winning - the casual fan will be there on nice, warm days.

mdep524
06-09-2005, 10:25 AM
The perfect location for the park would have been the south Loop location. It would have been right by the river, open to the skyline, convenient to the train stations, convenient to those working downtown. They could have built a riverwalk from Michigan Ave. and had Wendella boats drop you off at the stadium. It would be just as full as the Urinal. I really like the new post-renovations Cell, and I know there would be quite a few logistical problems, but does that sound beautiful or what?

LVSoxFan
06-09-2005, 10:38 AM
Boo to all of you who suggest the Sox should be in a suburb. Whaddaya, kidding?!!

And the speculation about attendance forgets one thing: what the Sox should have done when Old Comiskey bit it was build a new, S.F.-style stadium on the lakefront. The location for Sox park does indeed suck, although JR is correct in that the area is up-and-coming and far less daunting than the days of the Robert Taylor homes projects across the Kennedy.

Had the Sox built a cool, retro park right on the lakefront it would have become a destination--just like Wrigley, the win/loss record wouldn't have mattered, the park itself would be the attraction. People would go there just for the experience. Oh well.

That said, I love the Sox' park. Love it. Ever since they fixed it up, I think it's a great way to spend time, no matter what. I make the 1/2 hour El ride each time to get there, but it's worth it.

MisterB
06-09-2005, 11:02 AM
The location for Sox park does indeed suck, although JR is correct in that the area is up-and-coming and far less daunting than the days of the Robert Taylor homes projects across the Kennedy.

Wait, if the Cell is off the Kennedy, then what park have I gone to the last 15 years? :?:

LVSoxFan
06-09-2005, 11:09 AM
Sorry Ryan...

paciorek1983
06-09-2005, 11:16 AM
I make the 1/2 hour El ride each time to get there, but it's worth it.

Wow, what a trooper..........:?:

LVSoxFan
06-09-2005, 11:37 AM
That wasn't a self-congratulatory remark, fool.

It was, as opposed to walking to Wrigley, which I could do.

doublem23
06-09-2005, 11:44 AM
cosigned. The suburbs ain't Chi. Never have been, never will be.

"Chicagoland? Is that near Estonia or something?"

Agreed.

Sox in the suburbs?

:chunks

Johnny Mostil
06-09-2005, 11:54 AM
And the speculation about attendance forgets one thing: what the Sox should have done when Old Comiskey bit it was build a new, S.F.-style stadium on the lakefront.

Where on the lakefront? If the land can't be used for anything else, then maybe. Otherwise, that seems a waste of something that would attract other visitors and uses.

paciorek1983
06-09-2005, 11:58 AM
That wasn't a self-congratulatory remark, fool.

It was, as opposed to walking to Wrigley, which I could do.

Well, make it a little more clear that's all. If you're a Sox fan, I wouldn't think you'd even be going to Wrigley.

maurice
06-09-2005, 12:18 PM
Where on the lakefront?

Exactly. The area around Michael Reese Hospital isn't exactly a tourist destination. Even the South Loop has a long way to go before it will start attracting non-residents to the area. While I spend quite a bit of time in both of these areas, I'm hardly the casual fan they need to attract.