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DrCrawdad
06-05-2005, 08:32 AM
:whiner:


It's Angels' turn to complain about Sox

June 5, 2005

BY CHRIS DE LUCA STAFF REPORTER

It seems the White Sox' interpretation of baseball's unwritten rules has irked someone other than the Cubs.

The latest complainers are the Los Angeles Angels, specifically reliever Brendan Donnelly. In consecutive games -- Tuesday and Wednesday -- Donnelly was charged with a ball because he illegally brought his pitching hand to his mouth while on the mound.
(The rest of the story is available here.) (http://www.suntimes.com/output/deluca/cst-spt-deluca052.htm)



Remember, this is a manager who supported Juan Uribe after the Sox shortstop told Cubs baserunner Derrek Lee a double was a foul ball -- preventing a run from scoring. The Cubs couldn't hide their anger afterward.

For his part, Guillen told the Times he meant no harm.

''It's one of those weird rules,'' Guillen said. ''But a rule is a rule, and the umpires were aware of it and watching what he was doing.''

Whatever it takes to keep the best record in baseball.

Interesting that Deluca reports this with what I perceive to be a negative slant towards the Sox. Deluca here's the difference, what Uribe did is NOT against the rules of baseball. What Donelly did IS against the rules.

gosox41
06-05-2005, 08:44 AM
:whiner:





Interesting that Deluca reports this with what I perceive to be a negative slant towards the Sox. Deluca here's the difference, what Uribe did is NOT against the rules of baseball. What Donelly did IS against the rules.

I can't stand De Luca. Maybe we should refer to him as De Sucka from now on. What a tool.


Bob

Fredsox
06-05-2005, 08:46 AM
Exactly. One is an "unwritten rule" and one is very much written.

soxfan26
06-05-2005, 08:57 AM
I am loving every second of this season.

I love the fact that the only time our Sox get highlights on BBTN is when they loose. I love the fact that the mediots are out there looking for these stories to tell about the best team in baseball. But most of all I love the fact that our Sox keep taking series after series. We don't need love from these idiots, not now, and not in October.

He gone
06-05-2005, 09:10 AM
" Win or Die Trying"


Hey what ever it takes :dtroll:

De Luca is a :whiner:

Spicoli
06-05-2005, 09:48 AM
I am loving every second of this season.

I love the fact that the only time our Sox get highlights on BBTN is when they loose. I love the fact that the mediots are out there looking for these stories to tell about the best team in baseball. But most of all I love the fact that our Sox keep taking series after series. We don't need love from these idiots, not now, and not in October.

Yes. I am also enjoying all of this very much. I hope it continues right up until we win the World Series. Then it will be interesting to see which of the following scenarios dominates the most: 1) the mediots start talking like they called it from the beginning that the White Sox are the best team in baseball; 2) they still find ways to make excuses for this unexplainable phenomenon that the Red Cubs didn't win it all; 3) they try to diminish the joy of this year by saying there is no way we can do it again. There are probably more scenarios, but the writing is on the wall... Thus I have embraced the way the media is reporting about the Sox and receive a sick pleasure from it all. (Not to say I still don't get angry every once in a while for the flagrant crap...I'm human, all too human.)

TornLabrum
06-05-2005, 10:09 AM
Yes. I am also enjoying all of this very much. I hope it continues right up until we win the World Series. Then it will be interesting to see which of the following scenarios dominates the most: 1) the mediots start talking like they called it from the beginning that the White Sox are the best team in baseball; 2) they still find ways to make excuses for this unexplainable phenomenon that the Red Cubs didn't win it all; 3) they try to diminish the joy of this year by saying there is no way we can do it again. There are probably more scenarios, but the writing is on the wall... Thus I have embraced the way the media is reporting about the Sox and receive a sick pleasure from it all. (Not to say I still don't get angry every once in a while for the flagrant crap...I'm human, all too human.)

You forgot:

4) They give the Sox props for winning but emphasize the fact that attendance should have been better.

hose
06-05-2005, 10:32 AM
You forgot:

4) They give the Sox props for winning but emphasize the fact that attendance should have been better.


It's the media's 2005 Bermuda Triangle when it comes to reporting on the Sox.

At the top is attendance/ballpark/fights/broken glass in parking lot.

The other corner is Sox management from Reinsdorf to KW to Ozzie and of course negative stories about the Big Hurt .

The other corner is an occasional Sox loss.

In the middle of the Bermuda Triangle is the lost story on the winningest team in baseball and a manager that has his team firing on all cylinders.

spiffie
06-05-2005, 11:07 AM
Don't forget by late in the season if we are on our way to the playoffs when the pictures of Joe Jackson and Chick Gandil and the rest come out and they start talking about the "Curse of the Black Sox". Thus allowing the mediots to spout off things like "I'm not sure they ever SHOULD get to win another championship" as one ESPN2 writer said a few months or so back.

Ol' No. 2
06-05-2005, 11:10 AM
Only one appropriate response:
:bart

SOXSINCE'70
06-05-2005, 11:22 AM
:whiner:





Interesting that Deluca reports this with what I perceive to be a negative slant towards the Sox. Deluca here's the difference, what Uribe did is NOT against the rules of baseball. What Donelly did IS against the rules.

What Garret Anderson and company do on their own time is their business.:roflmao: :roflmao:

My guess is they've never heard of "the hidden ball trick" either.:D:

If the mediots in this city want to cast a negative light on the Sox,
so be it.Deal with it.The Sox will get their revenge when there's a
7 game series played on the South Side just before Halloween. :cool:

ozzman
06-05-2005, 11:24 AM
[artie]WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhh the white sox are winning so they must not be playing fair WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH [\artie]

TornLabrum
06-05-2005, 11:34 AM
Well, I must that De Luca for one thing. His article gave me a third item for a list of BS treatment by the mediots this week of the Sox, following Brantley and J. Hood. I emailed the article to George a few minutes ago, and it will be up whenever he changes the home page for this week.

Huisj
06-05-2005, 12:05 PM
anyone notice toward the end of that article where he said the White Sox might be interested in Preston Wilson. uh oh, please no.

wassagstdu
06-05-2005, 01:01 PM
I have to keep reminding myself that I am just paranoid, but I really lost it watching ESPN in the first game of the Angels series. When Ozzie didn't take out his cruising starter Buehrle to start the ninth, one of the color guys whose name I didn't get started blasting him for not bringing in "the closer" Hermanson. Fair enough, point taken, even if it is stupid. But the bozo kept HARPING on the point until I had to turn off the sound to keep watching. Of course the Sox won, and wouldn't even have had to be heroic about it but for a totally uncharacteristic fielding error that Ozzie had nothing to do with. Two nights later, the same bozo is still harping on the same point, and when Hermanson gets shelled he says that proves his point because "you should never bring in a closer in a non-save situation" because it damages his fragile psyche or some such idiocy. Bless Jeff Torborg, who last night went out of his way during a Mets game to say that that (un-named) comentator did not know what he was talking about.

Anyway, it is clear to some in the media that the miserable failure of the Sox is due to Ozzie's utter incompetence as a manager. Or, no wait, I mean their amazing success is in spite of his incompetence. Or something.

SEALgep
06-05-2005, 01:11 PM
anyone notice toward the end of that article where he said the White Sox might be interested in Preston Wilson. uh oh, please no.Only discredits him further.

Baby Fisk
06-05-2005, 01:20 PM
Gamesmanship in baseball? When did they start that?

If some reporters weren't so sad, they'd be hilarious.

Lip Man 1
06-05-2005, 01:27 PM
What's overlooked in DeLuca's story is this...Ozzie must REALLY know the rule book!

What Donnelly did is pretty arcane, I'd say 99 out of a 100 baseball people don't know about the rule.

I know you can lick your fingers or blow in your hand during cool/cold weather but the umpire has to give you permission and you have to step off the rubber to do it.

Lip

Ol' No. 2
06-05-2005, 01:30 PM
What's overlooked in DeLuca's story is this...Ozzie must REALLY know the rule book!

What Donnelly did is pretty arcane, I'd say 99 out of a 100 baseball people don't know about the rule.

I know you can lick your fingers or blow in your hand during cool/cold weather but the umpire has to give you permission and you have to step off the rubber to do it.

LipI think most baseball people know about that rule, but most casual fans would not. What I can't figure out is why Donnelly was throwing such a fit. HE certainly knows the rule.

TornLabrum
06-05-2005, 01:32 PM
What's overlooked in DeLuca's story is this...Ozzie must REALLY know the rule book!

What Donnelly did is pretty arcane, I'd say 99 out of a 100 baseball people don't know about the rule.

I know you can lick your fingers or blow in your hand during cool/cold weather but the umpire has to give you permission and you have to step off the rubber to do it.

Lip

How arcane can it be when every game where the weather is cold, the announcers (yup, Hawk and DJ) mention that "because of the temperature, the umpires are allowing the pitchers to put their hands to their mouths"?

As for Ozzie's comment about the rule being peculiar, it's to enforce the anti-spitball rule. It was probably put into the rule book in 1920.

Baby Fisk
06-05-2005, 01:32 PM
What's overlooked in DeLuca's story is this...Ozzie must REALLY know the rule book!

What Donnelly did is pretty arcane, I'd say 99 out of a 100 baseball people don't know about the rule.

I know you can lick your fingers or blow in your hand during cool/cold weather but the umpire has to give you permission and you have to step off the rubber to do it.

Lip
FYI it's not too arcane: TV announcers routinely brought up this rule during games in April, when pitchers were repeatedly stepping off the mound in order to warm/moisten their hands.

TornLabrum
06-05-2005, 01:42 PM
FYI it's not too arcane: TV announcers routinely brought up this rule during games in April, when pitchers were repeatedly stepping off the mound in order to warm/moisten their hands.

Beat ya! :D:

Baby Fisk
06-05-2005, 01:44 PM
Beat ya! :D:

Mr. Fox beat us both. :cool:

TornLabrum
06-05-2005, 01:47 PM
Mr. Fox beat us both. :cool:

Only if casual fans don't watch games. Mr. Fox didn't mention announcers talking about it on TV.

WhiteSoxFan84
06-05-2005, 02:01 PM
can someone please explain to me what juan uribe did wrong in that derek lee play?

what uribe did is the same as an OF pretending to be under a flyball seconds before it lands 10 feet infront of him.

when teams look stupid, they act and talk stupid. when you're the best team in baseball, you'll make a lot of teams look stupid.

samram
06-05-2005, 02:02 PM
anyone notice toward the end of that article where he said the White Sox might be interested in Preston Wilson. uh oh, please no.

Don't worry about that. This is another case of a writer taking something from another writer's column after that writer got the idea from a website or the voices in their head. See: Chavez, Eric.

samram
06-05-2005, 02:04 PM
can someone please explain to me what juan uribe did wrong in that derek lee play?

what uribe did is the same as an OF pretending to be under a flyball seconds before it lands 10 feet infront of him.

when teams look stupid, they act and talk stupid. when you're the best team in baseball, you'll make a lot of teams look stupid.

Yeah, but, but, Paul Konerko says you shouldn't do that. I noticed PK didn't say anything about how one shouldn't GIDP with the bases loaded.

Ol' No. 2
06-05-2005, 02:59 PM
can someone please explain to me what juan uribe did wrong in that derek lee play?

what uribe did is the same as an OF pretending to be under a flyball seconds before it lands 10 feet infront of him.

when teams look stupid, they act and talk stupid. when you're the best team in baseball, you'll make a lot of teams look stupid.Baseball has always had an element of a gentleman's game to it. There are certain courtesies and unwritten rules that players abide by. For example, there's no rule against stealing signs, but it isn't done. Other "fake out" plays like the one you mentioned are allowed. There's no good reason some are "allowed" and some aren't. It's just the way it is. Players telling baserunners that a ball is foul is a courtesy that's extended because it benefits all players. Uribe taking advantage of that courtesy to gain an advantage is contrary to the unwritten code.

That said, Lee was an idiot for stopping and not checking with his third base coach.

TornLabrum
06-05-2005, 03:06 PM
Baseball has always had an element of a gentleman's game to it. There are certain courtesies and unwritten rules that players abide by. For example, there's no rule against stealing signs, but it isn't done.

You're kidding, right?

Other "fake out" plays like the one you mentioned are allowed. There's no good reason some are "allowed" and some aren't. It's just the way it is. Players telling baserunners that a ball is foul is a courtesy that's extended because it benefits all players. Uribe taking advantage of that courtesy to gain an advantage is contrary to the unwritten code.

This is something I've never heard of in following the game for over 50 years.

That said, Lee was an idiot for stopping and not checking with his third base coach.

Aside from this last sentence, the rest of this post should have been in teal. What a bunch of rubbish!

samram
06-05-2005, 04:21 PM
You're kidding, right?

This is something I've never heard of in following the game for over 50 years.

Aside from this last sentence, the rest of this post should have been in teal. What a bunch of rubbish!

Yeah, I didn't get it either. As far as I know, managers and coaches always try to steal signs- Nossek used to do so quite often. A guy on second may not try to steal the catcher's signals because the batter may get brushed back or drilled. Also, how often does a 2B or SS covering second on a steal pretend to catch a ball when it's really going into CF just to make the guy slide so he can't advance to third? I think guys try to do what Uribe did all the time- it's just that most don't fall for it.

Palehose13
06-05-2005, 04:21 PM
when teams look stupid, they act and talk stupid. when you're the best team in baseball, you'll make a lot of teams look stupid.

Nice. Very nice. :cool:

IowaSox1971
06-06-2005, 02:54 AM
Why are the Angels criticizing Ozzie? Isn't it the umpires' job to enforce the rule, as it is written? If a pitcher goes to his mouth without being given permission to do so by the umpire, the rule should be enforced -- period. If Ozzie has to "remind" the umpires of this rule, then the umpires should be reprimanded by the league.

StockdaleForVeep
06-06-2005, 04:25 AM
Its not fair, the sox are supposed to be underachieving! Test them for roids!
-Minn twins front office