PDA

View Full Version : Cotts Friday night.


RedPinStripes
06-04-2005, 12:20 PM
Looked totally dominant. I was sitting right behind the scout seats watching him and he looked like a completly different pitcher out there. No fear, and made it look easy. Great movement, changing speeds and just making hitters look REAL bad.

I hate to assume things too quickly, but Sox fans like to dream and this one might not be far away. As he was kickin ass on that mound last night, I almost didnt want to see Hermie in the nineth . Not because i dont trust him, but Cotts just put on a hell of a show and my first thoughts were him replaceing one of the cubans in the rotation and doing a damn good job at it.

NDSox12
06-04-2005, 12:26 PM
Looked totally dominant. I was sitting right behind the scout seats watching him and he looked like a completly different pitcher out there. No fear, and made it look easy. Great movement, changing speeds and just making hitters look REAL bad.

I hate to assume things too quickly, but Sox fans like to dream and this one might not be far away. As he was kickin ass on that mound last night, I almost didnt want to see Hermie in the nineth . Not because i dont trust him, but Cotts just put on a hell of a show and my first thoughts were him replaceing one of the cubans in the rotation and doing a damn good job at it.

I like Cotts in the bullpen. I don't think I would mess with him at this point. He's primarily a two-pitch pitcher, which works great in the bullpen (see Cliff Politte) but can be problematic at times as a starter if he doesn't have a good offspeed pitch on any given day. Plus, it is nice to have two good lefties in the pen.

Jurr
06-04-2005, 12:31 PM
I like Cotts in the bullpen. I don't think I would mess with him at this point. He's primarily a two-pitch pitcher, which works great in the bullpen (see Cliff Politte) but can be problematic at times as a starter if he doesn't have a good offspeed pitch on any given day. Plus, it is nice to have two good lefties in the pen.
Yeah...I don't care how good you locate..if you have to rely on a four seam fastball and a subpar two seamer and curve, you're begging for trouble over the course of a ballgame. "Little bites" should be Cotts' nickname. That's all he's good for.

Parrothead
06-04-2005, 12:36 PM
Yeah...I don't care how good you locate..if you have to rely on a four seam fastball and a subpar two seamer and curve, you're begging for trouble over the course of a ballgame. "Little bites" should be Cotts' nickname. That's all he's good for.

What about Maddux? He has a subpar fastball and ok curve but locates very well. He has done pretty good.

Rocklive99
06-04-2005, 12:38 PM
Yep, that was awesome to watch, throwing strikes and going right after them. From what I saw from his minor league starts, that was the form he was in when he was dominant there. Sometimes it's hard to remember that this kid was a top prospect of the whole league, and started the minor league all star game at the cell in 03. I think if he can get another pitch in the offseason, then he'd be effective as a starter

RedPinStripes
06-04-2005, 12:38 PM
What about Maddux? He has a subpar fastball and ok curve but locates very well. He has done pretty good.

Yeah he's been Ok. :bandance:

hawkjt
06-04-2005, 12:43 PM
Cotts is so important as the best teams are just bristling with leftys like Angels,Twins,Rangers,Yanks and Red Sox. We desprately need lefty relievers to counter those teams. Cotts is our best hope along with Damaso.

TheOldRoman
06-04-2005, 12:45 PM
Why would you want to replace one of the Cubans with anyone, let alone Cotts? Jose has been dominant so far this year. On Wed he didnt have his stuff (which was made worse by the 4in x 4in strike zone he was given), but he still gave his team a chace to win AGAIN. The start before that he was unbelievable except for one pitch. He is only 2-2, but he has kept us in all of his games so far, and deserved to win several more. As for El Duque, he just came off the DL and had trouble locating last night. He will be fine his next start. He is 6-1 on the year, and that isnt a record you want to remove from your lineup.

Jurr
06-04-2005, 12:50 PM
What about Maddux? He has a subpar fastball and ok curve but locates very well. He has done pretty good.
Maddux throws a four seamer, a two seamer, a slider, a curve, and a change. He changes speeds on his two fastballs so well, he's actually got 12 or 13 pitches!

Jurr
06-04-2005, 12:51 PM
From ESPN's Insider scouting report on Maddux. See? He's got a LOT more than two pitches.
Change Up
Rating: EXCELLENT
Notes: One Of The Best Circle Changes In The Game. He Can And Will Throw It At Any Time For A Strike

Two Seam
Velocity: MINUS
Movement: GOOD
Notes: Not Overpowering; Mid 80s But He Can Do Anything With It That He Wants Due To His Flexible And Strong Wrists. Will Sink Rise Or Cut The Fb Effectively

Four Seam
Velocity: MINUS
Movement: PLUS
Notes:

Slider
Velocity: AVERAGE
Movement: AVERAGE
Notes:

Curve
Velocity: AVERAGE
Movement: AVERAGE
Notes: Picks His Spots To Use This Pitch

Foulke You
06-04-2005, 12:53 PM
I think last night's performance was the exception and not the rule for young Neal. I honestly don't think we're going to see more than the one or two fluke good outings from him and the rest will be the standard Cotts fare. He only has one pitch which is a fastball. Sure, he has other breaking pitches but he rarely can throw them consistently for strikes. Too many Neal Cotts outings have I seen him come into the game and promptly put the first 2 runners on base. I honestly believe his E.R.A. would be through the roof if it wasn't for Cliff Polite coming into the game to clean up his mess so many times. I hope I'm wrong, and Neal might finally be figuring it out but I don't have the same confidence in him that Ozzie seems to have.

Jurr
06-04-2005, 12:53 PM
Cotts is really good when he goes after hitters. I wish he'd have a little more confidence in his stuff and always take it to the opposition. That's exactly the problem Garland had forever!

RedPinStripes
06-04-2005, 01:03 PM
Why would you want to replace one of the Cubans with anyone, let alone Cotts? Jose has been dominant so far this year. On Wed he didnt have his stuff (which was made worse by the 4in x 4in strike zone he was given), but he still gave his team a chace to win AGAIN. The start before that he was unbelievable except for one pitch. He is only 2-2, but he has kept us in all of his games so far, and deserved to win several more. As for El Duque, he just came off the DL and had trouble locating last night. He will be fine his next start. He is 6-1 on the year, and that isnt a record you want to remove from your lineup.

Record means ****. Did you see the way he pitched last night? Both of them throw a lot of pitches early and are very wild. Everytime they pitch, plan on using 3 guys in the bullpen . We have a good bullpen, but it's not always going to be rested for these guys. And i wasn't talking about replacing one of them tomorrow. Who knows how old these guys really are for one, and Hernandez is a F/A next year and i don't see the Sox paying much to keep him. I don't blame them with Prospects like Cotts and McCarthy.

MRKARNO
06-04-2005, 01:05 PM
Who knows how old these guys really are for one, and Hernandez is a F/A next year and i don't see the Sox paying much to keep him.

El Duque actually signed a 2 year, 8 million dollar contract, which means our entire rotation is signed through '06. There is no room for McCarthy without a trade or an injury until 2007.

RedPinStripes
06-04-2005, 01:06 PM
I think last night's performance was the exception and not the rule for young Neal. I honestly don't think we're going to see more than the one or two fluke good outings from him and the rest will be the standard Cotts fare. He only has one pitch which is a fastball. Sure, he has other breaking pitches but he rarely can throw them consistently for strikes. Too many Neal Cotts outings have I seen him come into the game and promptly put the first 2 runners on base. I honestly believe his E.R.A. would be through the roof if it wasn't for Cliff Polite coming into the game to clean up his mess so many times. I hope I'm wrong, and Neal might finally be figuring it out but I don't have the same confidence in him that Ozzie seems to have.

He's been good the last few outings. Not like last night, but it's knowing what he is capable of if he can put it together. This is similar to the arguement everyone had with Garland because he had it all and it just took a while to put it all together.

RedPinStripes
06-04-2005, 01:07 PM
El Duque actually signed a 2 year, 8 million dollar contract, which means our entire rotation is signed through '06. There is no room for McCarthy without a trade or an injury until 2007.

****! I thought it was a 1 year deal? My bad.

TheOldRoman
06-04-2005, 01:15 PM
Record means ****. Did you see the way he pitched last night? Both of them throw a lot of pitches early and are very wild. Everytime they pitch, plan on using 3 guys in the bullpen . We have a good bullpen, but it's not always going to be rested for these guys. And i wasn't talking about replacing one of them tomorrow. Who knows how old these guys really are for one, and Hernandez is a F/A next year and i don't see the Sox paying much to keep him. I don't blame them with Prospects like Cotts and McCarthy.
Well, I dont think its necessarily the worst possible thing that we will need to use the bullpen on days Conteras and Hernandez pitch. Several people on this board were bitching earlier in the week about a lack of use for the bullpen. Buehrle, Garland and Freddy go 7 innings almost every game, with Buehrle and Garland usually pitching into the eighth. Contreras and El Duque will give a minimum of 5 innings and a maximum of 8 (ocassionally). As long as Ozzie splits up Jose and El Duque in the second half like he discussed, I think its a good thing. If we had 5 starters who were going to pitch 8 innings any given night, the bullpen wouldnt be sharp when it was called upon.

CallMeNuts
06-04-2005, 01:33 PM
Cotts is really good when he goes after hitters. I wish he'd have a little more confidence in his stuff and always take it to the opposition. That's exactly the problem Garland had forever!

He's been good the last few outings. Not like last night, but it's knowing what he is capable of if he can put it together. This is similar to the arguement everyone had with Garland because he had it all and it just took a while to put it all together.

Well, I dont think its necessarily the worst possible thing that we will need to use the bullpen on days Conteras and Hernandez pitch. Several people on this board were bitching earlier in the week about a lack of use for the bullpen. Buehrle, Garland and Freddy go 7 innings almost every game, with Buehrle and Garland usually pitching into the eighth. Contreras and El Duque will give a minimum of 5 innings and a maximum of 8 (ocassionally). As long as Ozzie splits up Jose and El Duque in the second half like he discussed, I think its a good thing. If we had 5 starters who were going to pitch 8 innings any given night, the bullpen wouldnt be sharp when it was called upon.

Confidence is contagious, and it could be that Cotts has caught the bug. Signs of confidence: 1) Going after the hitters. 2) Following Buehrle's lead and quicken the pace. 3) Pitcher / catcher trust. Don't shake him off unless you really have to. Too much thinking and uncertainty is involved if the pitcher and catcher aren't in sync.

To keep it going, Cotts needs a regular role. Split the Cubans in the rotation and let Neal know that he is going to be the first out of the pen, no later than the 7th inning whenever a Cuban starts. And let him know his roll is to pitch two innings. Don't let his new-found confidence wear off.

Ol' No. 2
06-04-2005, 01:35 PM
IMO, Cotts doesn't do well when he pitches sparingly. That's when he had trouble finding the plate and gets in trouble. Not that you'll ever mistake him for Billy Wagner, but when used on a regular basis he's pretty reliable.

RedPinStripes
06-04-2005, 01:46 PM
Well, I dont think its necessarily the worst possible thing that we will need to use the bullpen on days Conteras and Hernandez pitch. Several people on this board were bitching earlier in the week about a lack of use for the bullpen. Buehrle, Garland and Freddy go 7 innings almost every game, with Buehrle and Garland usually pitching into the eighth. Contreras and El Duque will give a minimum of 5 innings and a maximum of 8 (ocassionally). As long as Ozzie splits up Jose and El Duque in the second half like he discussed, I think its a good thing. If we had 5 starters who were going to pitch 8 innings any given night, the bullpen wouldnt be sharp when it was called upon.

It's every time with thse guys just about. You don't know when you'll need it with Buehrle and Garland. You know 3 guys at least are coming out of the pen when you have 2 starters that consistantly walk too many batters and get into too many jams. I think Hernandez had a start or 2 where he went 8. Other then that, these guys drive you nuts every time they pitch. trouble the last couple outings. Maybe I'm spolied over watching the other guys throw 5 innings and not have 110 pitches after 5? This is exactly why the Yanks didnt want either one of these guys. inconsistant.

elrod
06-04-2005, 01:48 PM
The key for Cotts is control. He is lights out against righties this year because of the movement on his fastball. But lefties tend to lay off a lot of his pitches and they sail outside - think of Marte when he's off.

Ol' No. 2
06-04-2005, 01:52 PM
It's every time with thse guys just about. You don't know when you'll need it with Buehrle and Garland. You know 3 guys at least are coming out of the pen when you have 2 starters that consistantly walk too many batters and get into too many jams. I think Hernandez had a start or 2 where he went 8. Other then that, these guys drive you nuts every time they pitch. trouble the last couple outings. Maybe I'm spolied over watching the other guys throw 5 innings and not have 110 pitches after 5? This is exactly why the Yanks didnt want either one of these guys. inconsistant.Greg Maddux made a pretty nice career out of being a 6 inning pitcher. I don't see it as a problem to have one or even two guys like that as long as the bullpen is getting the job done. If the trend continues, they should split up the Cubans at the break. The best situation would be to use the break to get Hernandez a nice long rest. Then get him another in September when you have the callups. With that he will be reasonably fresh for the playoffs.

TaylorStSox
06-04-2005, 01:58 PM
Cotts throws 3 pitches. He has a live arm. He's a future number 3. There's no doubt in my mind about that.

RedPinStripes
06-04-2005, 02:05 PM
Greg Maddux made a pretty nice career out of being a 6 inning pitcher. I don't see it as a problem to have one or even two guys like that as long as the bullpen is getting the job done. If the trend continues, they should split up the Cubans at the break. The best situation would be to use the break to get Hernandez a nice long rest. Then get him another in September when you have the callups. With that he will be reasonably fresh for the playoffs.

These guys can't compare to Maddux. Maddux is a "Nibbler" If he's missing it's not by much and they're still swinging at it . Hernandez throws at their feet when he's missing.

Cowhead418
06-04-2005, 02:09 PM
Why would you want to replace one of the Cubans with anyone, let alone Cotts? Jose has been dominant so far this year. On Wed he didnt have his stuff (which was made worse by the 4in x 4in strike zone he was given), but he still gave his team a chace to win AGAIN. The start before that he was unbelievable except for one pitch. He is only 2-2, but he has kept us in all of his games so far, and deserved to win several more. As for El Duque, he just came off the DL and had trouble locating last night. He will be fine his next start. He is 6-1 on the year, and that isnt a record you want to remove from your lineup.
Contreras may have thrown a lot of pitches and gave up 4 runs, but Timo's error cost him 2 UE runs and another 20 pitches. In fact, Contreras LOWERED his ERA that game. He pitched well but caught an unlucky break.

nedlug
06-04-2005, 02:20 PM
Cotts is so important as the best teams are just bristling with leftys like Angels,Twins,Rangers,Yanks and Red Sox. We desprately need lefty relievers to counter those teams. Cotts is our best hope along with Damaso.

Since when are the Yanks one of the best teams in baseball this year? It doesn't seem that they will be there at the end of the year, and they definitely haven't been that good so far.

Foulke You
06-04-2005, 03:53 PM
He's been good the last few outings. Not like last night, but it's knowing what he is capable of if he can put it together. This is similar to the arguement everyone had with Garland because he had it all and it just took a while to put it all together.
To an extent that comparison is fair, however, Garland always showed the ability to throw several pitches for strikes (Sinker, Fastball, Slider) with a measure of consistency. Until Cotts can consistently show me more than that nifty fastball of his for a strike, I don't think he'll be an effective reliever let alone a starter as some here suggested.