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Juice16
06-03-2005, 09:47 PM
Will this please die already. Hawk and DJ discussed it again tonight and Brantley made smug remarks during the highlights of the Sox win. Just shut up already.

White Sox Josh
06-03-2005, 09:51 PM
I saw him by the batting cages on Monday and I screamed at him that he was a moron.

South Side
06-03-2005, 10:22 PM
Will this please die already. Hawk and DJ discussed it again tonight and Brantley made smug remarks during the highlights of the Sox win. Just shut up already.

What did he say?

kcsportscaster
06-03-2005, 10:24 PM
Will this please die already. Hawk and DJ discussed it again tonight and Brantley made smug remarks during the highlights of the Sox win. Just shut up already.

Can you give me a transcript of what Hawk and D-J said about that dufus Brantley? Especially since 1. the game wasn't on WGN, and 2. mlb.tv fed the FSN-Ohio Indians telecast.

Can't Brantley just S-T-F-U about Ozzie and let him manage the team the way he freakin' wants???? I don't know why Steve Stone didn't reach over and beat Brantley upside his freakin' head after spewing that junk during both halves of the ninth inning of Wednesday night's game.

Can't either K-W or Reinsdorf himself request to MLB that ESPN remove not only Brantley, but the equally stupid Steve Phillips as well, from any future four letter network family telecasts of Sox games, similar to Vikings owner Red McCombs asking Fox to remove Joe Buck from the telecast of their playoff game against the Eagles last NFL season after Buck's comments about Randy Moss's T-D celebration against the Packers?

Lip Man 1
06-03-2005, 10:29 PM
KC:

One I don't think that bothers Reinsdorf a wit.

Two I don't think MLB teams have the right to ask that certain national broadcasters be 'off limits.' The networks are paying big bucks to show the games...they are going to have some rights.

Lip

santo=dorf
06-03-2005, 10:35 PM
What did he say?

They showed Hermanson getting the last out and he said with a really sarcastic tone "Hermanson can get left handers out. Who knew?" Then he said that Hermanson should be used in EVERY save opportunity.

JB98
06-03-2005, 10:39 PM
They showed Hermanson getting the last out and he said with a really sarcastic tone "Hermanson can get left handers out. Who knew?" Then he said that Hermanson should be used in EVERY save opportunity.

I happen to agree with that statement. It's the smart-ass tone that Brantley takes when making his points that I have an issue with.

soxfan123
06-03-2005, 10:41 PM
What did Hawk say about it?

gf2020
06-03-2005, 10:57 PM
I saw him by the batting cages on Monday and I screamed at him that he was a moron.

No teal. That's awesome.

Stroker Ace
06-03-2005, 11:01 PM
Can someone please re-cap what Hawk said about Brantly, and how the feud with this drillrod all started.

tstrike2000
06-03-2005, 11:05 PM
One comment Hawk made is that Brantley doesn't understand Ozzie because Ozzie is not a conventional manager and manages with his gut. Then he went on to say that Ozzie has forgotten more about the game of baseball than Jeff Brantley knows...which I found to be pretty funny.

bluestar
06-03-2005, 11:07 PM
Can someone please re-cap what Hawk said about Brantly, and how the feud with this drillrod all started.

I'm curious about Hawk's comments, too. The "feud" started when Brantley went on a rant Monday night because Ozzie a.) let Buehrle start the 9th inning when Brantley thought Hermanson should have been brought in, and b.) then went to Marte to replace Buehrle. Brantley thought Ozzie should have gone with Hermanson to begin the 9th because Dusty is the closer.

Then, Brantley continued his rant Wednesday night when Ozzie brought Hermanson in to pitch in the 9th despite being behind. Brantley said such moves often blew up on managers, because the closer mindset is so different. When Hermanson then proceeded to get in trouble and allow two runs to score, Brantley continued ranting about what a bad move it was on Ozzie's part. At one point he even said, "That's just bad managing."

Cellview22
06-03-2005, 11:14 PM
I think Hawk said Brantley went off on Ozzie "because he had predicted the Sox to come in 4th, and now that the Sox haven't cooled down and still have the best record in baseball, he's just embarrassed". Not exactly word for word...

He also talked about how the media doesn't understand Ozzie's unconventional way of managing.

Cubbiesuck13
06-03-2005, 11:17 PM
One comment Hawk made is that Brantley doesn't understand Ozzie because Ozzie is not a conventional manager and manages with his gut. Then he went on to say that Ozzie has forgotten more about the game of baseball than Jeff Brantley knows...which I found to be pretty funny.

Jeff Brantley must post on here under a million different names because there are a ton of posts that clearly show posters don't understand Guillen.

Stroker Ace
06-03-2005, 11:17 PM
Thanks for setting the record straight.

tstrike2000
06-03-2005, 11:20 PM
Jeff Brantley must post on here under a million different names because there are a ton of posts that clearly show posters don't understand Guillen.

Huh? :?: I thought Hawk's comment was right on, which I why I thought it was funny.

bluestar
06-03-2005, 11:27 PM
Huh? :?: I thought Hawk's comment was right on, which I why I thought it was funny.

I think Cubbiesuck13 is referring to the fact that many people here pretty much echoed what Brantley said on the two telecasts.

tstrike2000
06-03-2005, 11:34 PM
I think Cubbiesuck13 is referring to the fact that many people here pretty much echoed what Brantley said on the two telecasts.

That's cool, just wanted to clarify just in case. There's been way too many threads already dedicated to comments people on ESPN say. Unfortunately no way to get them off of our back until we win the division.

balke
06-03-2005, 11:36 PM
I agreed with what Brantley said, but you don't say that during a White Sox broadcast. Also, you DEFINITELY don't talk about how the Twins are the better team, and WILL catch us, and the sox are all a mirage during a Sox telecast. Brantley did that this season, harped TOO long on Guillen's bullpen fiasco, and last year talked about the Cubs all game during the Whitesox ESPN broadcast he commentated. I hate that guy.

tstrike2000
06-03-2005, 11:47 PM
I agreed with what Brantley said, but you don't say that during a White Sox broadcast. Also, you DEFINITELY don't talk about how the Twins are the better team, and WILL catch us, and the sox are all a mirage during a Sox telecast. Brantley did that this season, harped TOO long on Guillen's bullpen fiasco, and last year talked about the Cubs all game during the Whitesox ESPN broadcast he commentated. I hate that guy.

If commentators could give a good pro and con analysis of teams that's one thing, but guys like Brantley and Phillips have been negative, negative, negative. Either our pitching won't hold up, guys who are hitting .230 will eventually bring the team down, stuff like that. It's over and over and over. If Brantley or any other guy doesn't agree with a move Ozzie makes, that's fine, but for him to keep going on and on about it just beats a dead horse. If he or anyone else at ESPN can't weigh in on more of the positives on a team that has the best record in baseball on June 3rd, they're even more useless than they already are.

Ol' No. 2
06-03-2005, 11:48 PM
I didn't necessarily agree with every move that Ozzie made, either, but that doesn't mean Ozzie's moves were dumb. Apparently, Brantley can't understand that simple premise.

seanpmurphy
06-03-2005, 11:52 PM
:whocares

*yawn*

HebrewHammer
06-04-2005, 12:05 AM
White Sox vs. Brantley? What? Is he going to pitch batting practice or is he still on the DL?

JB98
06-04-2005, 12:23 AM
I didn't necessarily agree with every move that Ozzie made, either, but that doesn't mean Ozzie's moves were dumb. Apparently, Brantley can't understand that simple premise.

It's the condescending nature that he uses to make his points. Personally, I liked that Buerhle started that inning, but I thought that Hermanson should have gotten the call and not Marte when it was time to go to the 'pen. Still, that's a point that can be expressed without being all smug and pompous. And once you say it, you don't have to repeat yourself 40 times. Brantley has a very annoying habit of doing that as well.

Ol' No. 2
06-04-2005, 12:35 AM
It's the condescending nature that he uses to make his points. Personally, I liked that Buerhle started that inning, but I thought that Hermanson should have gotten the call and not Marte when it was time to go to the 'pen. Still, that's a point that can be expressed without being all smug and pompous. And once you say it, you don't have to repeat yourself 40 times. Brantley has a very annoying habit of doing that as well.Brantley and Philips have both painted themselves into a corner. Neither likes Ozzie and have made it a personal crusade to convince everyone he's an idiot bound to fail. Ozzie's not cooperating. They've also publicly ridiculed the whole "smartball" approach, also predicting failure. They've both invested a large part of their reputation (such as it is) in predicting a White Sox failure, and now they're looking like fools. But they've gone too far to back down now, so they just get more and more strident. By October they'll be so shrill only dogs will be able to hear them.

Cubbiesuck13
06-04-2005, 12:36 AM
It's the condescending nature that he uses to make his points. Personally, I liked that Buerhle started that inning, but I thought that Hermanson should have gotten the call and not Marte when it was time to go to the 'pen. Still, that's a point that can be expressed without being all smug and pompous. And once you say it, you don't have to repeat yourself 40 times. Brantley has a very annoying habit of doing that as well.

Here is the problem with Brantley and other analysts: When they disagree with a manager's decision they say why they dissagree but NEVER explain why the manager is making the move that he makes. For instince, Keeping MB on in the ninth was because The Oz has said time and time again he is going to give his SP the best chance to win the game.
Pitching Marte instead of Hermy was because the Angels had a great offensive threat on the bench because of a great LHP started the game. The Oz wanted to keep him there so he puts in the LHP who had good success last time he faced them. Brantley also forgot to bring up the fact that Marte did his job and got a DP ball.
Finally, he called for Dustin in a non-save situation with the game tied but two nights later he ripped The Oz for bringing him in a non-save oppurtunity.

That's it for me folks, I am done thinking about those two games and that jack-ass for now. If I hear him doing this again I can't make any promisses that I will keep my thoughts to myself.

FarWestChicago
06-04-2005, 02:34 AM
Brantley and Philips have both painted themselves into a corner. Neither likes Ozzie and have made it a personal crusade to convince everyone he's an idiot bound to fail. Ozzie's not cooperating. They've also publicly ridiculed the whole "smartball" approach, also predicting failure. They've both invested a large part of their reputation (such as it is) in predicting a White Sox failure, and now they're looking like fools. But they've gone too far to back down now, so they just get more and more strident. By October they'll be so shrill only dogs will be able to hear them.Dogs and the morons around here who agree with them.

Fredsox
06-04-2005, 05:54 AM
I think Hawk said Brantley went off on Ozzie "because he had predicted the Sox to come in 4th, and now that the Sox haven't cooled down and still have the best record in baseball, he's just embarrassed". Not exactly word for word...

He also talked about how the media doesn't understand Ozzie's unconventional way of managing.

Hawk also said "I've forgotten more about baseball than this guy ever knew". Clearly the Sox are tired of analysts speaking before they think, just spewing verbalizations without really understanding what they're saying or if its really true. I can't blame them and as a fan its entertaining to see the Sox attacking those pompous know-it-alls. On the other hand, it probably isn't very productive and they should let it die.

The best revenge is living well. Let's win the WS and screw 'em all.

Tragg
06-04-2005, 08:59 AM
Brantley isn't exactly alone in wondering about our use of the bullpen.

That said, he just needs to make his comment and shut up instead of going on and on and on.

Brian26
06-04-2005, 09:46 AM
Hawk also said "I've forgotten more about baseball than this guy ever knew". Clearly the Sox are tired of analysts speaking before they think, just spewing verbalizations without really understanding what they're saying or if its really true.

The venom Hawk was spewing last night was similar to Farmio's opening day tirade against Steve Phillips. Phillips predicted us last or 4th in the division but never came out to see us in Spring Training.

johnny_mostil
06-04-2005, 09:53 AM
I agreed with what Brantley said, but you don't say that during a White Sox broadcast. Also, you DEFINITELY don't talk about how the Twins are the better team, and WILL catch us, and the sox are all a mirage during a Sox telecast. Brantley did that this season, harped TOO long on Guillen's bullpen fiasco, and last year talked about the Cubs all game during the Whitesox ESPN broadcast he commentated. I hate that guy.

Fortunately what Jeff Brantley thinks has very little to do with what actually happens.

Jeff Brantley made a lot of money despite being a pretty ordinary pitcher because of being anointed a "closer". Ozzie's bullpen strategy distributes saves, and 10 or 15 saves for 3 guys probably doesn't bump their pay as much as 30 to 45 will for one guy, does it?

Yeah, I know Hermanson's been good this year, but his career numbers don't scream "Dennis Eckersley". There is no need to treat him like a prima donna closer... especially when all it will do is make him Steinbrenner's target.

TornLabrum
06-04-2005, 10:31 AM
Fortunately what Jeff Brantley thinks has very little to do with what actually happens.

Jeff Brantley made a lot of money despite being a pretty ordinary pitcher because of being anointed a "closer". Ozzie's bullpen strategy distributes saves, and 10 or 15 saves for 3 guys probably doesn't bump their pay as much as 30 to 45 will for one guy, does it?

Yeah, I know Hermanson's been good this year, but his career numbers don't scream "Dennis Eckersley". There is no need to treat him like a prima donna closer... especially when all it will do is make him Steinbrenner's target.

Dennis Eckersley's career numbers before he went to the A's and became a closer didn't exactly scream "Dennis Eckersley." I agree with Ozzie's bullpen philosophy for the most part. If you have 3 guys who can close, use them.

The problem is that right now, Shingo has pretty much gone down the old twa-lay, and Marte hasn't looked all that good since year before last.

White Sox Josh
06-04-2005, 10:37 AM
Dennis Eckersley's career numbers before he went to the A's and became a closer didn't exactly scream "Dennis Eckersley." I agree with Ozzie's bullpen philosophy for the most part. If you have 3 guys who can close, use them.

The problem is that right now, Shingo has pretty much gone down the old twa-lay, and Marte hasn't looked all that good since year before last.I think that both of them are starting to come around. I think Ozzie is right when he told Shingo to stop thinking out there and just have fun. Marte just needs to throw strikes. I think by the time July comes around we will be thankful that the Sox have 3 guys who can close.

White Sox Josh
06-04-2005, 10:40 AM
Fortunately what Jeff Brantley thinks has very little to do with what actually happens.

Jeff Brantley made a lot of money despite being a pretty ordinary pitcher because of being anointed a "closer". Ozzie's bullpen strategy distributes saves, and 10 or 15 saves for 3 guys probably doesn't bump their pay as much as 30 to 45 will for one guy, does it?

Yeah, I know Hermanson's been good this year, but his career numbers don't scream "Dennis Eckersley". There is no need to treat him like a prima donna closer... especially when all it will do is make him Steinbrenner's target.I think you are right on with this. I wouldn't be surprised to have 2 guys save 20 or more games. I've always hated the bullpen by comimttee but when you have 3 guys who can close than use them.

balke
06-04-2005, 11:00 AM
Fortunately what Jeff Brantley thinks has very little to do with what actually happens.

Jeff Brantley made a lot of money despite being a pretty ordinary pitcher because of being anointed a "closer". Ozzie's bullpen strategy distributes saves, and 10 or 15 saves for 3 guys probably doesn't bump their pay as much as 30 to 45 will for one guy, does it?

Yeah, I know Hermanson's been good this year, but his career numbers don't scream "Dennis Eckersley". There is no need to treat him like a prima donna closer... especially when all it will do is make him Steinbrenner's target.

I agreed with Ozzie's bullpen management in every situation up to a week and a half ago. since then there's been about 4 things that may or may not have made me a little confused. Obviously he was right, and everyone else was wrong about pitching and defense, and spread out hr's.

That one particular situation of Buehrle being left in one batter too long, Marte being left in when he responds poorly to the botched DP ball, and Hermanson being left to warm up for like half an hour while other relievers blow the game was a bad call to me. Hermanson has to be trusted with that ERA, to come in and dominate. I liked Marte setting up an out, but I think Hermanson could've closed it regardless of who he had to face.

I could also name a million good things Ozzie has done this season, like use Marte in the right situations, and try to give him confidence. Also, how his situational relief calling for Cotts has really seemed to help him become a much better pitcher. And my favorite, not going too crazy with the lineup card. He let it stay steady for a while, before he made any moves. And the moves weren't too drastic, people moved up a spot or so, Rowand moved to the 3. Ozzie's goods outweigh the bads so far, but his bullpen calling has been a little questionable as of late. Last night Cotts getting 2 innings to set up Hermanson was beautiful.

TornLabrum
06-04-2005, 11:03 AM
I think that both of them are starting to come around. I think Ozzie is right when he told Shingo to stop thinking out there and just have fun. Marte just needs to throw strikes. I think by the time July comes around we will be thankful that the Sox have 3 guys who can close.

I hope you're right. Shingo needs to do more than have fun, though. When he throws his fast ball, it needs to actually do something other than look like it's rolling along a table top. I could hit his fast ball, even without my glasses, and I'm 55 years old, have 20/200 vision, and a corneal dystrophy that makes me see double images without glasses.

You're right about Marte. He needs to throw strikes.

In fact one of my few gripes about this pitching staff is that we still seem to have a few pitchers who somehow turn 0-2 counts into full counts far too often.

White Sox Josh
06-04-2005, 11:34 AM
I hope you're right. Shingo needs to do more than have fun, though. When he throws his fast ball, it needs to actually do something other than look like it's rolling along a table top. I could hit his fast ball, even without my glasses, and I'm 55 years old, have 20/200 vision, and a corneal dystrophy that makes me see double images without glasses.

You're right about Marte. He needs to throw strikes.

In fact one of my few gripes about this pitching staff is that we still seem to have a few pitchers who somehow turn 0-2 counts into full counts far too often.What Ozzie said and I'm paraphrasing here is that Shingo was thinking to much out there and that if he stoped thinking out there he would have success. I'm don't think hitters are figuring him out because his K per 9 innings rate is somewhere in the 10's. He just needs to throw strikes.

CleeFan101
06-04-2005, 11:48 AM
We made Marriotti lose his job... why cant we do the same to brantley :tongue:

Cowhead418
06-04-2005, 01:23 PM
The only time I disagreed with Ozzie this year with the bullpen was the third game of the Angels series and I admit I went a little overboard (Sorry FWC). But really, it doesn't matter what the mediots say because if we win then it won't matter. It's not like they can correctly predict the future so who cares what they think.

Nard
06-04-2005, 02:16 PM
The thing that pissed me off about Brantley the most is that for the entire damn Wednesday game, he would praise the Angels and rip the Sox. It wasn't even about Hermanson anymore.

I recall hearing about five times: "You better watch out, 'cause when these Angels hitters get hot..."

"That's the only kind of pitch that Uribe has a chance of hitting out of the park."

Oh this hitter and that hitter, blah blah blah, when Contreras is making those kinds of mistakes, etc.

Commentary that is okay when objective and balanced out by praise for the Sox, but it was like he was completely silent when the Sox were hitting. The Red Sox-Yankees network really needs to step in here and not allow him to comment on anymore games, not because it pisses Sox fans off, but because it pretty much ruins the broadcast for everyone.

bludupree
06-04-2005, 02:18 PM
:whocares

*yawn*


People who have to watch the Fox broadcast and listen to a guy try to tear apart their team care. This picture is waaaay too overused. It is posted every time there is a media issue. The media does affect the fanbase and the topic is important.

nedlug
06-04-2005, 02:19 PM
Last night Cotts getting 2 innings to set up Hermanson was beautiful.

Methinks it was only beautiful because Cotts got the job done.

NDSox12
06-04-2005, 02:42 PM
Jeff Torborg just stuck up for Ozzie during the Mets/Giants broadcast. He didn't mention Brantley by name, but it was pretty obvious he was talking about him. Torborg said that it is unfair to criticize a manager who is making a gut call in using the bullpen. Not surprising from a former manager. I have a lot of respect for Torborg though.

TornLabrum
06-04-2005, 09:56 PM
Jeff Torborg just stuck up for Ozzie during the Mets/Giants broadcast. He didn't mention Brantley by name, but it was pretty obvious he was talking about him. Torborg said that it is unfair to criticize a manager who is making a gut call in using the bullpen. Not surprising from a former manager. I have a lot of respect for Torborg though.

Torborg was one of Ozzie's mentors.