PDA

View Full Version : Thomas Article In The Suntimes


Madvora
06-03-2005, 10:19 AM
http://www.suntimes.com/output/deluca/cst-spt-deluca03.htm

I missed this today until I heard Carmen and Silvy talking about it on ESPN1000.

Thinking about Frank. There's already $3.5 million spent whether you keep him or not. Getting a better player for the remainder of that money ($6.5 million) isn't going to happen unless KW shuffles some stuff around.
I think we keep him.

soxrme
06-03-2005, 10:23 AM
http://www.suntimes.com/output/deluca/cst-spt-deluca03.htm

I missed this today until I heard Carmen and Silvy talking about it on ESPN1000.

Thinking about Frank. There's already $3.5 million spent whether you keep him or not. Getting a better player for the remainder of that money ($6.5 million) isn't going to happen unless KW shuffles some stuff around.
I think we keep him.

I agree:cool:

mjharrison72
06-03-2005, 10:29 AM
http://www.suntimes.com/output/deluca/cst-spt-deluca03.htm

I missed this today until I heard Carmen and Silvy talking about it on ESPN1000.

Thinking about Frank. There's already $3.5 million spent whether you keep him or not. Getting a better player for the remainder of that money ($6.5 million) isn't going to happen unless KW shuffles some stuff around.
I think we keep him.
Especially if he's in good health. However, one of the options discussed in the article would be to buy out the contract for $3.5 mil, then renegotiate. I hope by the time such negoriations come about that keeping Frank in a Sox uniform at a reasonable price is foremost in Sox management's mind. It would be a shame to let him go over a few million dollars. Of course, I also hope playing for the Sox is something important to Frank as well.

NonetheLoaiza
06-03-2005, 10:31 AM
If there is a way to keep Frank on the Sox for the rest of his career, that's what I want to see. If not, I understand that it happens, but it would be a sad day.

voodoochile
06-03-2005, 10:32 AM
One can only hope so. I think the reception Frank is getting from the fans and the way he is already in a groove in terms of strike zone will bode well for his future with the Sox. At least I hope the Sox have the brains to realize what a huge draw he is as well as a guy who makes the whole team's offense go.

Have a great 3/4 season, Frank and end this discussion...

voodoochile
06-03-2005, 10:34 AM
Especially if he's in good health. However, one of the options discussed in the article would be to buy out the contract for $3.5 mil, then renegotiate. I hope by the time such negoriations come about that keeping Frank in a Sox uniform at a reasonable price is foremost in Sox management's mind. It would be a shame to let him go over a few million dollars. Of course, I also hope playing for the Sox is something important to Frank as well.

What is reasonable will depend on the 3/4 season he has.

.270, 20, 60 and he may only get a $5M-7/year offer.

.300, 30, 90 and he is worth every penny of the $10M and beyond deal he has currently on the table.

mjharrison72
06-03-2005, 10:44 AM
What is reasonable will depend on the 3/4 season he has.

.270, 20, 60 and he may only get a $5M-7/year offer.

.300, 30, 90 and he is worth every penny of the $10M and beyond deal he has currently on the table.
I agree with you. But another interesting element of the article was this discussion of "diminished skills" and Frank's realization that he's not always going to hit .350 with 40 HR. I believe he said the game of baseball can be "humbling."

So even if he hits better than .300 and drives in a ton of runs in this shortened season, my real hope, and maybe this should be in deep pink, is that he realizes that as an aging veteran who has been sidelined for portions of the recent past, he can't demand the salary he might think he otherwise deserves. I just want cool heads to prevail and don't want things to get ugly.

Flight #24
06-03-2005, 10:48 AM
So even if he hits better than .300 and drives in a ton of runs in this shortened season, my real hope, and maybe this should be in deep pink, is that he realizes that as an aging veteran who has been sidelined for portions of the recent past, he can't demand the salary he might think he otherwise deserves. I just want cool heads to prevail and don't want things to get ugly.

Hopefully this is true. There are other indications that this may be the case, such as Frank moving back to Chicago fulltime to get married and be near his kids. All of those would increase the value to Frank of being here beyond the $$$ in his contract.

His value to the team, his longevity, the PR value of keeping him (500HRs, HOF) and his desire to stay will hopefully result in a reasonable multiyear extension.

maurice
06-03-2005, 11:00 AM
This isn't the first time that Deluca has pulled stuff out of his ass to generate a negative article about Frank. Looks like he has some kind of personal grudge. OTOH, Cowley actually wrote a positive Sox article (http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/031sd3.htm) today about Uribe. I liked this quote:
I do feel like a survivor. The language barrier is very hard. In the minor leagues, there were lots of times they were trying to tell me something and I just couldn't understand. But I would rather have it that way because I was taught that when you get things so easily, you don't strive to be better. Everything was so hard for me early on in my career, and that's what made me work even harder.
:gulp:

ondafarm
06-03-2005, 11:00 AM
If there is one thing that Reinsdorf understands, it's keeping a player for his push towards a major record or serious HOF consideration. Recall Carlton Fisk for the catcher's record and Tom Seaver for his 300th win. That being said, I believe that if Frank makes some serious headway towards his 500th homerun, a virtual lock on the HOF, then the Sox will bring him back. I think 25 homers is a realistic target and I think that will decide things.

Tekijawa
06-03-2005, 11:16 AM
Did anyone ever stop to think that the contract he is currently in may be his last? I would think that 2006, or possibly even this year if the option isn't picked up, would be long enough for Frank. Especially since the past few years have been riddled with injury... Finishing with 500 career Home Runs is important to him yes, but I would imagine that walking at the age of 40 is even more important. Especially with the new marriage and the kids growing up, millions of Dollars available to him and Being The biggest Sox Superstar living in Chicago, even after he retires...

Frater Perdurabo
06-03-2005, 11:19 AM
Did anyone ever stop to think that the contract he is currently in may be his last? I would think that 2006, or possibly even this year if the option isn't picked up, would be long enough for Frank. Especially since the past few years have been riddled with injury... Finishing with 500 career Home Runs is important to him yes, but I would imagine that walking at the age of 40 is even more important. Especially with the new marriage and the kids growing up, millions of Dollars available to him and Being The biggest Sox Superstar living in Chicago, even after he retires...

Both his injuries came while playing the field. I predict Frank could play up to five more seasons as a full-time DH, particularly if Ozzie is smart about pinch-running for him if he walks or hits late in a game and strategically rests him against pitchers who give him fits, and/or day games after night games.

mweflen
06-03-2005, 11:20 AM
Finding some way to negotiate with Frank will do both sides a world of good.

If Frank takes the 3.5 mil buyout and then negotiates a 2 year deal for 5 mil apiece or so with incentives, he'll look like a hero for taking less in hopes of helping the team.

Then, the Sox management looks good by keeping the All Time Greatest Sox Player Ever around for his push to 500 and the HOF. After the Carlton and Robin debacles, this could be a publicity boon to the Sox.

I hope KW gets it done.

Tekijawa
06-03-2005, 11:20 AM
Both his injuries came while playing the field. I predict Frank could play up to five more seasons as a full-time DH.

I feel the same, but it is a possibillity... I've seen players with a lot more left in the tank walk away with a lot less on the plate than Frank has right now, Family, health, and money.

TheOldRoman
06-03-2005, 11:21 AM
If there is one thing that Reinsdorf understands, it's keeping a player for his push towards a major record or serious HOF consideration. Recall Carlton Fisk for the catcher's record and Tom Seaver for his 300th win. That being said, I believe that if Frank makes some serious headway towards his 500th homerun, a virtual lock on the HOF, then the Sox will bring him back. I think 25 homers is a realistic target and I think that will decide things.
So, are you saying that JR will cut Thomas in the middle of a roadtrip soon after he hits number 500?

Tekijawa
06-03-2005, 11:23 AM
So, are you saying that JR will cut Thomas in the middle of a roadtrip soon after he hits number 500?

He'd never do that to another Future Hall of Famer... I predict soon after his 499th

Lip Man 1
06-03-2005, 11:39 AM
I thought DeLuca's story was an excellent overview of Frank's contract situation providing specific details and also looking at the intangibles that are going to factor into what eventually happens.

I hope Frank stays but as I mentioned once before to Flight, nothing this organization does surprises me anymore and I am concerned about the relationship (or lack of same) between Williams and Thomas.

We'll see...

Lip

Hangar18
06-03-2005, 11:47 AM
It would be a shame to let him go over a few million dollars.

Look at all the guys we DIDNT sign.......all over a few million dollars.

Flight #24
06-03-2005, 11:49 AM
I thought DeLuca's story was an excellent overview of Frank's contract situation providing specific details and also looking at the intangibles that are going to factor into what eventually happens.

I hope Frank stays but as I mentioned once before to Flight, nothing this organization does surprises me anymore and I am concerned about the relationship (or lack of same) between Williams and Thomas.

We'll see...

Lip

IIRC, someone (PH13?) posted that in a recent interview with MJ&H on ESPN1000, KW was asked specifically about Frank and said that whatever issues they may have had are long past and that Frank's been a great teammate the past couple of years.

Take it FWIW, but it wouldn't surprise me if local media found it easier/"tastier" to use old info rather than discussing how old problems have been resolved.

balke
06-03-2005, 11:53 AM
I can understand not wanting to pay Frank 10 mil, but I'm sure they could reach a middle ground, like the buyout + 4 mil for next season or something.

every year someone has something to say about Thomas being too old or this or that, then he comes out and hits on pace for 42 Hr's, and 100+ RBI. We won't find a better DH for less.

HawkISox
06-03-2005, 11:54 AM
In 50 years, no one will remember who Guillen or Kenny Williams was....Frank Thomas will be one of the all time greats...

Enough said.

mweflen
06-03-2005, 11:54 AM
IIRC, someone (PH13?) posted that in a recent interview with MJ&H on ESPN1000, KW was asked specifically about Frank and said that whatever issues they may have had are long past and that Frank's been a great teammate the past couple of years.

Take it FWIW, but it wouldn't surprise me if local media found it easier/"tastier" to use old info rather than discussing how old problems have been resolved.

Yes, I recall hearing this also, that relations have eased to a large degree. The simple fact that he received the multiple-option 3-year deal at all would seem to bear this out.

maurice
06-03-2005, 12:05 PM
KW was asked specifically about Frank and said that whatever issues they may have had are long past and that Frank's been a great teammate the past couple of years.

Right, which is why DeLuca has to rely on 3-year-old quotes and to ignore developments since then to push his agenda. He does the same thing with the Ozzie quotes, ignoring subsequent statements by Ozzie that he never intended to single Frank out in a negative manner, that Frank has been great, etc. Finally, he ignores the well-known fact that JR is the biggest Thomas fan of all and gave Frank his most recent contract extension after the "diminished skills" fiasco.

Total hack job by a bad writer for a bad paper.

TheOldRoman
06-03-2005, 12:23 PM
In 50 years, no one will remember who Guillen or Kenny Williams was....Frank Thomas will be one of the all time greats...

Enough said.
No, people will remember Ozzie in 50 years for being the manager who brought the White Sox its first World Series championship in 88 years. His number will be retired on the outfield wall a few feet away from the Big Hurt's.

Frater Perdurabo
06-03-2005, 12:24 PM
Right, which is why DeLuca has to rely on 3-year-old quotes and to ignore developments since then to push his agenda. He does the same thing with the Ozzie quotes, ignoring subsequent statements by Ozzie that he never intended to single Frank out in a negative manner, that Frank has been great, etc. Finally, he ignores the well-known fact that JR is the biggest Thomas fan of all and gave Frank his most recent contract extension after the "diminished skills" fiasco.

Total hack job by a bad writer for a bad paper.

Spot-on analysis.

DeLuca is a :dtroll:

ChiSoxBobette
06-03-2005, 12:37 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/output/deluca/cst-spt-deluca03.htm

I missed this today until I heard Carmen and Silvy talking about it on ESPN1000.

Thinking about Frank. There's already $3.5 million spent whether you keep him or not. Getting a better player for the remainder of that money ($6.5 million) isn't going to happen unless KW shuffles some stuff around.
I think we keep him.

My question is why when the White Sox are playing great baseball, have a 35-18 record are in a divisional race with the twins have a critical series with the indians this weekend would a chicago sports writer write something like this that could cause trouble within the team. It just gos to show White Sox fans how it just kills chicago sports writers when the White Sox are playing well. This article is something that is written before or during spring training , but now we see it, so you got to ask yourself why especially something that can cause dissension on this team. The only thing that I can come up with is the chicago sports experts just don't believe in the White Sox and will try anything to prove thier point that being the White Sox are'nt that good and should'nt be in the position they're in, would they write the same crap about the cub if they were 35-18 even before this last run of games the cub have won 6/7 in a row ,I've only read the cub is just snake bit with all of thier injuries and how they still will win thier division. The White Sox on the other hand well we read a story about how management dislikes Frank Thomas only in chicago.

ShoelessJoeS
06-03-2005, 12:57 PM
No, people will remember Ozzie in 50 years for being the manager who brought the White Sox its first World Series championship in 88 years. His number will be retired on the outfield wall a few feet away from the Big Hurt's.
close but thats wrong, dont you mean their first 10 championships since 1917?

na_na_na_na
06-03-2005, 01:07 PM
Reading that article is unbelievable. How can anyone question his HOF status.

hawkjt
06-03-2005, 01:15 PM
DeLuca is joined at the hip with Moronotti. He has loved to rip the sox since he was put on that beat. The comment about KW and Ozz detesting Frank is typical overkill exxageration moronotti type material. I believe KW 's comments about Frank eariler this season were extremely complimentary and indicated their relationship is on a new plane these days. Oz and frank are old friends that love to hassle each other like brothers.



I firmly believe that Frank will get the 3.5 buyout and then a new 3 year deal will be inked with frank getting an incentive laden deal that will pay him 20-25 million. Everybody will be happy.

Flight #24
06-03-2005, 01:20 PM
Let's also not forget one other major change in the org - Brooks Boyer. I'd guess that he recognizes the PR value of having Frank around and will make that known. Concurrently, he'll also make the PR hit to be had for letting Frank go be known.

Deadguy
06-03-2005, 05:20 PM
His value to the team, his longevity, the PR value of keeping him (500HRs, HOF) and his desire to stay will hopefully result in a reasonable multiyear extension.

I don't know what he thinks he's worth, but he should keep something in mind. When Barry Bonds was a FA in the winter of 2001 and the same age as Thomas is now, no other team was willing to give him a worthwhile multi-year contract, because most GMs are hesitant to give multi-year contracts to players in their late 30s. This was a year after he had arguably one of the greatest seasons ever. The Giants helped him save face by offering him arbitration, and then later giving him a multi-year contract.

Given that knowledge, even if Thomas were to be the best hitter in baseball for the remainder of the season, and that is a gigantic "if", he won't get that much interest on the FA market as far as anything more than a one year deal.

Lip Man 1
06-03-2005, 10:20 PM
Two other variables not mentioned either in the story or here. Both could make an impact in this:

1. Jerry Reinsdorf. He is a friend of Frank's. He has renegotiated a deal with Frank before, usurping Williams. Would he do it again? Especially if the Sox were to win something meaningful (which could make the G.M. look bad...)

2. The impact of what happens to the Sox free agent's (Konerko, Everett, Takatsu...am I missing anyone?) and anyone who happens to be arbitration eligible (Garland?) They could command big bucks. If the Sox don't raise payroll there simply may not be money for Frank. Right now I don't think the Sox will re-sign any of the above listed for next year which adds another variable...how much does it cost to replace them on the open market?

We'll see what happens.

Lip

MRKARNO
06-03-2005, 10:25 PM
Two other variables not mentioned either in the story or here. Both could make an impact in this:

1. Jerry Reinsdorf. He is a friend of Frank's. He has renegotiated a deal with Frank before, usurping Williams. Would he do it again? Especially if the Sox were to win something meaningful (which could make the G.M. look bad...)

2. The impact of what happens to the Sox free agent's (Konerko, Everett, Takatsu...am I missing anyone?) and anyone who happens to be arbitration eligible (Garland?) They could command big bucks. If the Sox don't raise payroll there simply may not be money for Frank. Right now I don't think the Sox will re-sign any of the above listed for next year which adds another variable...how much does it cost to replace them on the open market?

We'll see what happens.

Lip

Everett and Shingo currently are being paid 6.5 million collectively, so that will alleviate things a bit.