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MERPER
06-02-2005, 01:54 AM
Okay, I am so sick of people loving Ozzie one minute and hating him the next... I know some of his moves tonight were questionable, but if you loved the ninth inning rally then he deserves credit because it is his character rubbing off on this team that gives them the "never say die" attitude... most other teams down 4 in the ninth would have rolled over and died....

Also, Anaheim's lineup is going to cause every team problems with 7 lefty hitters....

On the bright side.... we just concluded an extremely rough stretch of 5 with Texas, 7 with anaheim and 3 with the sorry excuse for a franchise to our immediate north and we are still the BEST TEAM IN BASEBALL at 35-18... not too shabby

Furthermore, look at our June schedule... only real tough series is in San Diego but we are scheduled to throw Garland/Buehrle/Garcia.... maybe Arizona at our place is rough as well... but it is considerably easier

Take a deep breath and be thankful for what we have...

Ron Karkovice
06-02-2005, 02:00 AM
Nice thread... but in the back of my mind I secretly know the twins will win like 97 games this year, they scare me soo much.:whiner:

Madvora
06-02-2005, 08:27 AM
Okay, I am so sick of people loving Ozzie one minute and hating him the next... I know some of his moves tonight were questionable, but if you loved the ninth inning rally then he deserves credit because it is his character rubbing off on this team that gives them the "never say die" attitude... most other teams down 4 in the ninth would have rolled over and died....

Also, Anaheim's lineup is going to cause every team problems with 7 lefty hitters....

On the bright side.... we just concluded an extremely rough stretch of 5 with Texas, 7 with anaheim and 3 with the sorry excuse for a franchise to our immediate north and we are still the BEST TEAM IN BASEBALL at 35-18... not too shabby

Furthermore, look at our June schedule... only real tough series is in San Diego but we are scheduled to throw Garland/Buehrle/Garcia.... maybe Arizona at our place is rough as well... but it is considerably easier

Take a deep breath and be thankful for what we have...
I understand that this isn't the end of the world. Overall our record is still very good. I for one have given Ozzie praise when he has done well and I didn't think his decision to start Buehrle in the 9th the other day was a problem at all. Most of the problems caused in that game was an error by Iguchi, not Buehrle's total fault, not Marte's total fault.
Having said that, I also have the right to criticize Ozzie. This would be the first time. Yesterday's game was poorly managed. I don't think most people would disagree. The reason so many of us are pissed off is because of that "win or die trying" type of attitude. There was no sign of that yesterday at all. Ozzie didn't do all it took to win. He had plenty of decisions throughout the game and each time he made a decision that gave us less of a chance to win. It was very strange watching him make incorrect decision after incorrect decision. This isn't second guessing either. I'm sure most people on this board were scratching their heads last night after each move (or lack of move) too.

mccoydp
06-02-2005, 08:37 AM
Nice thread... but in the back of my mind I secretly know the twins will win like 97 games this year, they scare me soo much.:whiner:

:tealtutor:

I think you overlooked this...

mccoydp
06-02-2005, 08:49 AM
I understand that this isn't the end of the world. Overall our record is still very good. I for one have given Ozzie praise when he has done well and I didn't think his decision to start Buehrle in the 9th the other day was a problem at all. Most of the problems caused in that game was an error by Iguchi, not Buehrle's total fault, not Marte's total fault.
Having said that, I also have the right to criticize Ozzie. This would be the first time. Yesterday's game was poorly managed. I don't think most people would disagree. The reason so many of us are pissed off is because of that "win or die trying" type of attitude. There was no sign of that yesterday at all. Ozzie didn't do all it took to win. He had plenty of decisions throughout the game and each time he made a decision that gave us less of a chance to win. It was very strange watching him make incorrect decision after incorrect decision. This isn't second guessing either. I'm sure most people on this board were scratching their heads last night after each move (or lack of move) too.

Ozzie is no saint in this matter, but realize that he manages a team of professional ballplayers, who are paid big bucks to play the game correctly while minimizing errors. Every player in the lineup should be expected to produce when needed. If they can't do it, they need to hear these immortal words:

:hawk

"He Gawn!"

BigEdWalsh
06-02-2005, 08:55 AM
I understand that this isn't the end of the world. Overall our record is still very good. I for one have given Ozzie praise when he has done well and I didn't think his decision to start Buehrle in the 9th the other day was a problem at all. Most of the problems caused in that game was an error by Iguchi, not Buehrle's total fault, not Marte's total fault.
Having said that, I also have the right to criticize Ozzie. This would be the first time. Yesterday's game was poorly managed. I don't think most people would disagree. The reason so many of us are pissed off is because of that "win or die trying" type of attitude. There was no sign of that yesterday at all. Ozzie didn't do all it took to win. He had plenty of decisions throughout the game and each time he made a decision that gave us less of a chance to win. It was very strange watching him make incorrect decision after incorrect decision. This isn't second guessing either. I'm sure most people on this board were scratching their heads last night after each move (or lack of move) too.

Well stated, nice 1st post. I agree wholeheartedly. Who here isn't happy with the Sox' W-L record and the fact that we're still in 1st place? That being said, the game last night totally sucked and we supporters have a right to be angry with certain performances, many managerial decisions and the ****ing outcome.
By the way, :welcome: !!

ramorgan1
06-02-2005, 09:01 AM
Ozzie likes to leave the starters in to "give them the chance to win"... or at least that's what he always says.

I hope he's not planning to tell Contreras today that bringing in Kevin Walker was going to provide Jose with "the best chance to win". I'd be pissed if i was Contreras

Madvora
06-02-2005, 09:12 AM
Ozzie is no saint in this matter, but realize that he manages a team of professional ballplayers, who are paid big bucks to play the game correctly while minimizing errors. Every player in the lineup should be expected to produce when needed.


Always a point I make as well. Everybody on this team should be expected to contribute to a win. Right now this is exposing quite a few players that don't seem to have all of that ability. Improvements can be made and should be made and I think will be made too.
You could also look at the fact that there were better options available last night that could have led to a win. "Win Or Die Trying" and all that crap about doing whatever it takes to win was not demonstrated last night. Ozzie had plenty of chances to give his team a win and it didn't happen.

4 games ahead of the Twins... yikes. We need to get some games back here.
We have Cleveland and Colorado
Twins have Yankees and Arizona.

Pulaski
06-02-2005, 09:37 AM
Okay, I am so sick of people loving Ozzie one minute and hating him the next... I know some of his moves tonight were questionable, but if you loved the ninth inning rally then he deserves credit because it is his character rubbing off on this team that gives them the "never say die" attitude... most other teams down 4 in the ninth would have rolled over and died....

Also, Anaheim's lineup is going to cause every team problems with 7 lefty hitters....

On the bright side.... we just concluded an extremely rough stretch of 5 with Texas, 7 with anaheim and 3 with the sorry excuse for a franchise to our immediate north and we are still the BEST TEAM IN BASEBALL at 35-18... not too shabby

Furthermore, look at our June schedule... only real tough series is in San Diego but we are scheduled to throw Garland/Buehrle/Garcia.... maybe Arizona at our place is rough as well... but it is considerably easier

Take a deep breath and be thankful for what we have...

That was a game I will never forget. It is times like this that I think Ozzie is on some Venezuelan drug!
Perez at 1B

Harris at 2B (not so questionable)

Walker pitches in the 7th



Once we got the lead back all Ozzie had to do was let Contreras pitch the 7th. He pitched well except for when Perez couldnít catch the ball at first. That error probably added 30 pitches to his pitch count. After Contreras pitches the 7th, bring in Shingo or Pollite for the 8th and let Hermansen finish the game. Ozzie needs to buy Managers Guide For Idiots!

Who would bring Walker in the game when he has pitched once, maybe twice and is being sent down on Friday!!! Our Manager. : (

Lastly, with a day off today, we had a chance to sweep what people believe is the top team in the AL. Who cares if they didnít have Vlad and Francisco!
Play your players, they can rest today. We looked like fools yet again on an ESPN National game. Thanks Ozzie, I'm glad I paid to watch a High School JV Team on the field.

Viva Medias B's
06-02-2005, 09:38 AM
Twins have Yankees and Arizona.

Yankees better beat Twins. George won't be the only angry one if they fail.

Madvora
06-02-2005, 09:51 AM
Who would bring Walker in the game when he has pitched once, maybe twice and is being sent down on Friday!!! Our Manager. : (


Though not a great choice to have him pitch at all, at least I would have an extremely quick hook on this guy in such a tight game.
- He walked Figgins to lead off the 7th. That was enough for me. You put that guy on the bases to lead off an inning and you're dead. However, Ozzie didn't even have anyone ready.
- Next Erstad singles and they have 1st and 3rd with no outs. Nothing done yet
- Finley singles up the middle and scores Figgins. - still pitching
- Anderson flies out and moves Erstad to 3rd
- McPherson doubles, Erstad scores, Finley to 3rd.
THEN THE PITCHING CHANGE...
- Vizcaino gives up a 2 RBI single to Molina
- Double play for Kotchman.

mccoydp
06-02-2005, 10:27 AM
Always a point I make as well. Everybody on this team should be expected to contribute to a win. Right now this is exposing quite a few players that don't seem to have all of that ability. Improvements can be made and should be made and I think will be made too.
You could also look at the fact that there were better options available last night that could have led to a win. "Win Or Die Trying" and all that crap about doing whatever it takes to win was not demonstrated last night. Ozzie had plenty of chances to give his team a win and it didn't happen.

4 games ahead of the Twins... yikes. We need to get some games back here.
We have Cleveland and Colorado
Twins have Yankees and Arizona.

And we have agreement....Ozzie's not innocent....he ran the bullpen into the ground last year....wore Marte, Adkins, and Cotts out through his mismanagement.

Jurr
06-02-2005, 11:06 AM
Yankees better beat Twins. George won't be the only angry one if they fail.
Hell, the Yanks can't beat the ROYALS!

mweflen
06-02-2005, 11:42 AM
When Minnie is one game ahead of us at some point his year, this Anaheim game is going to hurt real bad in hindsight.

DumpJerry
06-02-2005, 11:49 AM
Come on, take a deep breath. Yeah, I'd love to win all the games as much as the next Sox fan, but that won't happen. This was a "day off" lineup, it was not designed to win. If we had our A team on the field, we would have won. A two day rest for some of the guys will yield many more wins in the long run.

Hendu
06-02-2005, 11:52 AM
Though the game was not managed well, even the best managers have those every once in a while. As long as they don't happen too frequently or when the season is on the line, it's just something everyone has to get over.
Now if he has players playing out of position and brings Walker into a close game in September or October, we'll really have a reason to rant & rave.

mweflen
06-02-2005, 11:57 AM
Come on, take a deep breath. Yeah, I'd love to win all the games as much as the next Sox fan, but that won't happen. This was a "day off" lineup, it was not designed to win. If we had our A team on the field, we would have won. A two day rest for some of the guys will yield many more wins in the long run.

I'm trying to reconcile the incongruity of your username and this statement. :?: I am not having an easy time.

1951Campbell
06-02-2005, 12:06 PM
I'm trying to reconcile the incongruity of your username and this statement. :?: I am not having an easy time.

:reinsy
"Um...yeah...Jerry Manuel."

miker
06-02-2005, 12:09 PM
I'm dissappointed with a loss (and what Sox fan isn't) and I even bristle at the thought of "taking a day off", but even the '27 Yankees took a "day off" once or twice and I'm sure Miller Huggins was second-guessed for his decisions as well.

In the end, the season will be determined by many, many events, not just one game. Therefore, I can reluctantly accept last night's result.

Just don't make a habit of it...:mad:

Dan H
06-02-2005, 12:46 PM
I don't undersand giving people a rest when you have an off day on the very next day. Yet, I am not all that angry over this loss though it was a sloppy, mismanaged game. I'll wait a little while longer before I panic.

Madvora
06-02-2005, 12:54 PM
I don't undersand giving people a rest when you have an off day on the very next day. Yet, I am not all that angry over this loss though it was a sloppy, mismanaged game. I'll wait a little while longer before I panic.
Well Konerko needed a day off anyway with the way he was playing. It wasn't because he was tired. But as for players getting tired this early in the season... I'm not sure that should be happening. They have 5 months off a year and have only been playing for 3 so far.

Unregistered
06-02-2005, 12:57 PM
When Minnie is one game ahead of us at some point his year, this Anaheim game is going to hurt real bad in hindsight.Nah, everyone will just say "Lighten up, everybody - we're ONLY a game back!" :rolleyes:

I like Ozzie, I really do. But for anyone to say that Ozzie didn't single-handedly blow the Sox chances of winning last night by putting in a pitcher who pitched all of 2 innings this season and was probably headed down to Charlotte following the game no matter what, is nothing more than an Ozzie apologist.

For those saying that we don't know what Shingo or Vizcaino or Cotts would have done, the answer is simple: they would have given us a CHANCE. At no point did Walker do that.

Every Sox fan who has been paying attention went "what the hell?" as soon as Walker came out of that bullpen.

DumpJerry
06-02-2005, 12:59 PM
I'm trying to reconcile the incongruity of your username and this statement. :?: I am not having an easy time.
Check out the bottom line of my sig.



:reinsy
"Um...yeah...Jerry Manuel."
Thanks!

Ol' No. 2
06-02-2005, 01:15 PM
Good Grief. Did I miss something? Was last night the 7th game of the World Series? This is the most completely Homefishy thread I've ever seen. Try a handful of these.

:prozac

Pulaski
06-02-2005, 01:17 PM
When Minnie is one game ahead of us at some point his year, this Anaheim game is going to hurt real bad in hindsight.

Yes indeed! Remember this one.

MisterB
06-02-2005, 01:45 PM
And we have agreement....Ozzie's not innocent....he ran the bullpen into the ground last year....wore Marte, Adkins, and Cotts out through his mismanagement.

Exactly how do you figure that?

mccoydp
06-02-2005, 01:51 PM
Exactly how do you figure that?

When they started looking like they had been wrung through the wringer, and started tossing softballs.

wdelaney72
06-02-2005, 01:53 PM
I love my wife more than anything, but yet she still has the ability to do some really dumb stuff that pisses me off to no end.

TaylorStSox
06-02-2005, 01:56 PM
Good Grief. Did I miss something? Was last night the 7th game of the World Series? This is the most completely Homefishy thread I've ever seen. Try a handful of these.

:prozac


Can there be a new forum for people who are somewhat rational?



:redneck .....kind of.

Baby Fisk
06-02-2005, 02:07 PM
Good Grief. Did I miss something? Was last night the 7th game of the World Series? This is the most completely Homefishy thread I've ever seen.

Homefish would also note the following:

- "the accursed ones" are on a super hot streak and soaring into the playoffs
- the Indians may have lost last night, but they are coming to USCF having won 7 of their last 10 and will likely sweep the Sox
- Minnesota is bound to go on a 28-game winning streak eventually
- never forget that your spirits will be crushed sooner or later
- your pets will die, the glaciers will come again, the sun will eventually burn out, etc etc... :(:

kevingrt
06-02-2005, 02:12 PM
Good Grief. Did I miss something? Was last night the 7th game of the World Series? This is the most completely Homefishy thread I've ever seen. Try a handful of these.

:prozac


Some people are a little too much into the "what have you done for me lately" phrase?

Dick Allen
06-02-2005, 02:22 PM
Clearly, the problem is that it wasn't just one or two things that Ozzie bungled last night, it was a succession of screwups, one after another. That's what really hurts. Play to win every game, dammit.

nebraskasox
06-02-2005, 02:25 PM
Come on, take a deep breath. Yeah, I'd love to win all the games as much as the next Sox fan, but that won't happen. This was a "day off" lineup, it was not designed to win. If we had our A team on the field, we would have won. A two day rest for some of the guys will yield many more wins in the long run.

I remember Hawk saying in 2000 that Jerry Manuel "wasn't afraid to lose a ball game." I think last night falls into this category. When you saw Timo at 1B, you knew something was up. Then the bullpen move to Walker instead of Cotts. I hope it does work out where the extra rest will yield some wins we wouldn't usually get.

If we win the Division and guys are well rested for the playoffs, everyone will be applauding Ozzie for his "foresight" and "foresaking the short term gain for the longer term good". If we don't make the playoffs by a game or two, we will all think back to what could have been if we had just put our A team on the field a few more times.

Time will tell.

mweflen
06-02-2005, 02:45 PM
Homefish would also note the following:
- Minnesota is bound to go on a 28-game winning streak eventually
- never forget that your spirits will be crushed sooner or later
- your pets will die, the glaciers will come again, the sun will eventually burn out, etc etc... :(:

But these things are true...

I ought to consult the Dhamapadda and the Tao Te Ching to try and locate my sense of Buddhist detachment and inner peace...:peace: