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MRKARNO
06-01-2005, 10:24 PM
Bash Ozzie here

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 10:24 PM
Here it is. Rant and rave.

Charno
06-01-2005, 10:24 PM
Fire Guillen! He lost the game for us. Definetly Jerry Manuel-esque, and bringing in Walker reminded me of the Jose Paniagua fiasco, though Walker didnt flick off an umpire.

I'm pretty disgusted with this loss. The offense shows up despite missing three guys and having Timo Perez on first place, Contreras struggles (not helped by the crap play of Timo at first) but keeps us in it at least, and then Ozzie decides that since he hasnt done enough, its time to toss a young prospect in to the teeth of the Angels. Couldnt save him for a crap team like Cleveland, Ozzie?

Terrible. Just terrible. KW needs to have a talk with Ozzie.

Despite all that, I love how this team never gave up the fight. Great rally in the ninth, but unfortunately the White Sox lost to Ozzie Guillen 10 to 7. :angry:

Fake Chet Lemon
06-01-2005, 10:25 PM
So much stupidity from the dugout, so little time.

Our best hitter (Gooch) and top RBI guy (Paulie) never enter the game. But the great Walker got an appearance.

Kogs35
06-01-2005, 10:25 PM
dear ozzie please learn how to use a bullpen, and use pauly instead of uribe even though uribe almost won the game.

thanks
your loyal sox fans

DeuceUnit
06-01-2005, 10:25 PM
Worst managed game I have ever seen.

SouthSide4Life
06-01-2005, 10:25 PM
dammit. what an awful way to lose a game. special thanks go out to Walker and Vizcain:angry:

WWE Champion
06-01-2005, 10:26 PM
Good to see our home run hitter Konerko and our over .300 hitter Iguchi sitting on the bench while Juan "Glacier" Uribe struck out.

And why the heck is Walker seeing time when he's obviously rusty and will be gone in a couple of days anyway?

Ozzie's moves all series have been deplorable.

Nard
06-01-2005, 10:26 PM
KW needs to talk to Ozzie RIGHT NOW.

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 10:26 PM
:jerry

"This game reminded me of... me!"

Cowhead418
06-01-2005, 10:26 PM
The Good News is that the offense scored 7 runs with an absolute crap lineup. And Frank got an RBI, right?

Mr. White Sox
06-01-2005, 10:26 PM
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_435338.jpg
"Hi Ozzie."

Rocklive99
06-01-2005, 10:27 PM
White Sox managers sure hate sweeps

Big Hurt's first RBI

peeonwrigley
06-01-2005, 10:27 PM
I almost paid to go see this game. Thankful I did not...

NSSoxFan
06-01-2005, 10:27 PM
I predict that the stupidity on WSI will reach a peak tonight. As hard as that is to believe.

buehrle4cy05
06-01-2005, 10:27 PM
Lay off Ozzie. Is it his fault that Hermanson gave up his first two runs of the year? And as for bringing in Walker, here's what you have:
-Cotts pitched 2 innings yesterday
-Shingo. 'nuff said.
-Politte has pitched in the last 2 games
-Vizcaino has struggled, came in after Walker
-Marte has blown leads in the last two games
-Hermanson is the closer, not used in the 7th

That leaves you with Kevin Walker. He's a lefty, and he faced a lot of lefties. If he's in the bullpen, then you might as well use him. Ozzie did not lose the game today. And after all, he's the [bleep]ing manager.

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 10:27 PM
The Good News is that the offense scored 7 runs with an absolute crap lineup. And Frank got an RBI, right?

Yes, he did. You can check my signature for his current numbers. He unofficially leads the team in OBP.

voodoochile
06-01-2005, 10:27 PM
Not impressed with Timo at 1B, but when Uribe jacked that curve ball fouls, for just a moment, my heart skipped a beat

PicktoCLick72
06-01-2005, 10:28 PM
YOu have a valid point for firing Ozzie after one game. Sometimes I wonder about some posters here. These games are going to happen so be happy with winning the series. What is KW going to say to Ozzie. "Ozzie, I'd like you only to use Hermanson and Politte becvasue the guys at WSI only believe in them. Use know one else or risk death."

lths06
06-01-2005, 10:28 PM
Is it just me or does it seem that Ozzie always goes to his "B" team when we win the first two games of a series? :?:

TheOldRoman
06-01-2005, 10:28 PM
A truly humiliating loss. Its great to take 2 out of 3, but there is NO way you should lose a game in which you score 7 runs. The Indians are lying down for the Twins, and likely will tomorrow. We're looking at another 3.5 game lead come Friday.:angry:

Lip Man 1
06-01-2005, 10:28 PM
I don't know what the Comcast picture showed, but the ESPN2 picture looked like Uribe's blast went over the pole for a grand slam.

By the way Walker will probably be the next one shipped back to Charlotte.

Tough loss, they had the lead going into the 7th. 5th time this season they lost a game after taking a lead into the 7th inning or later. (To be fair the Sox have rallied 10 times in the 7th inning or later to win a game...)

Lip

mike squires
06-01-2005, 10:28 PM
Wow. I like Guillen but he has really made it hard for this team in certain situations. I don't think you can really blame him for having Walker in there though. I've mentioned it before there are times guys like Walker and Cotts will have to pitch in these types of situations or you'll risk overworking the other guys. ONe thing is for sure, this team certainly lives up to their slogan! Where was Konerko? I think I'd rather have had him hit in place of Uribe.

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 10:29 PM
YOu have a valid point for firing Ozzie after one game. Sometimes I wonder about some posters here. These games are going to happen so be happy with winning the series.

They had a chance to sweep...

FarWestChicago
06-01-2005, 10:29 PM
I predict that the stupidity on WSI will reach a peak tonight. As hard as that is to believe.Oh absolutely. This will be the best ever. :rolleyes:

samram
06-01-2005, 10:29 PM
I just don't see how an impatient hitter like Uribe is allowed to bat against a guy with perhaps the best slider in the game, especially when Iguchi is available. What, did Ozzie suddenly become sensitive to the notion of guys not playing out of position?

Oh well, at least it was fun in the ninth and they're still in first, and have a much needed off-day tomorrow.

South Sider
06-01-2005, 10:29 PM
Worst managed game I have ever seen.

Mondays game wasn't far behind tonights game.

Todays loss belongs to Ozzie and some poor defense :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

And hey Ozzie.....thanks for bring in Dustin in a no save situation.
Say good bye to an ERA of 0.00

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 10:29 PM
Is it just me or does it seem that Ozzie always goes to his "B" team when we win the first two games of a series? :?:

:jerry

"He wants to be like me."

mike squires
06-01-2005, 10:29 PM
Wow, not wanting to pitch to a guy who's had 3 MLB at bats since last July is saying something.

buehrle4cy05
06-01-2005, 10:29 PM
YOu have a valid point for firing Ozzie after one game. Sometimes I wonder about some posters here. These games are going to happen so be happy with winning the series.

:tealpolice:

Yes! Now this thread has everything!

StepsInSC
06-01-2005, 10:29 PM
Entertaining Game. I'm glad I got to see it.

cburns
06-01-2005, 10:29 PM
Is it just me or does it seem that Ozzie always goes to his "B" team when we win the first two games of a series? :?:

I was thinking the exact same thing watching the game tonight.

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 10:30 PM
Oh absolutely. This will be the best ever. :rolleyes:

We aim to please. :D:

mike squires
06-01-2005, 10:30 PM
WHo would you have rather had pitched in that situation instead of Walker? Shingo. Hermanson wasn't on either tonight.

JB98
06-01-2005, 10:30 PM
It was a poorly-managed game.

On the bright side, the Sox continued to battle until the final out. Even when we lose, we always seem to have an opportunity in the ninth inning. Can't fault the effort, but Ozzie made a poor decision when he put Walker in this game.

mjharrison72
06-01-2005, 10:31 PM
Not impressed with Timo at 1B, but when Uribe jacked that curve ball fouls, for just a moment, my heart skipped a beat
Me, too... as soon as K-Rod hung that curve, Uribe jumped on it... that was the best chance we were going to have.
I remember a time when we saw our bullpen as a strength... what the hell is it about coming in during a deficit that makes them give up hit after hit like that? The defense up the middle could have been better, and what the hell happened on that fly ball Uribe appeared to be underneath, only to be called off by Pods? We can't give these guys extra outs, and we've given a bunch these three games.

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 10:31 PM
WHo would you have rather had pitched in that situation instead of Walker? Shingo. Hermanson wasn't on either tonight.

Hermanson's problems are Ozzie's fault because he hadn't pitched much recently.

samram
06-01-2005, 10:31 PM
Not impressed with Timo at 1B, but when Uribe jacked that curve ball fouls, for just a moment, my heart skipped a beat

Yeah, we were saying in the chat that the only pitch he could hit hard would be a hanging slider, and lo and behold, K-Rod threw him one.:smile:

Stroker Ace
06-01-2005, 10:31 PM
Worst managed game I have ever seen.Yep. Why the hell do you bring in walker and Viscaino? Why is walker even on this team?:angry:

whitesoxfan
06-01-2005, 10:31 PM
wow now people are complaining about using Hermy in the 9th after complaining the whole game to use the guy? Give me a break guys, we took 2 of 3 from them. it might be alright to complain a little bit, but some of you guys think it's the end of the world that we lost 1 game.

were still in first and were going to have a 4 game lead, so i don't know what the big deal is. I'll love to take 2 of 3 in every series no matter what.

wsoxfan
06-01-2005, 10:32 PM
that lineup out there today was ridiculous! :angry: and i think many of us had a bad feeling as soon as Walker came in with a one run lead...

Lip Man 1
06-01-2005, 10:32 PM
Thank God we are through with the Angels for awhile.

Lip

Soxzilla
06-01-2005, 10:32 PM
I almost paid to go see this game. Thankful I did not...

How so? The rally in the ninth would have been worth admission. The desire in this team is second to none, they never ever give up.

Voodoo, I needed to attach electrode's to my nipples in order to get my heartrate back after uribe crushed that ball.:redneck

At least we got to see Walker suck, so there won't be any posters here thinking we sent back the reincarnation of Jesus Christ when El Duque comes back.

FarWestChicago
06-01-2005, 10:32 PM
Hermanson's problems are Ozzie's fault because he hadn't pitched much recently.You wouldn't say that if you lived here.

Fake Chet Lemon
06-01-2005, 10:32 PM
Let's assume for a moment Ozzie isn't a complete moron.

Could he have been using this game to send a message to Kenny, that we need a back up first baseman and replacements in the pen for Walker, Vizz and ShinGONE? Like the way Ozzie played Borchard every freaken day last year so he wouldn't be stuck with Borchard this year. Or can Ozzie really be dumber than Bevington on any given night?

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 10:32 PM
Yep. Why the hell do you bring in walker and Viscaino? Why is walker even on this team?:angry:

Apparently, there is an unwritten rule in sports that every team must have a token scrub player, kind of like the Yankees with Giambi, or the D-Backs with The Choice.

FarWestChicago
06-01-2005, 10:33 PM
Thank God we are through with the Angels for awhile.

LipYeah, they beat us 1 out of 3. That was brutal!!

Hendu
06-01-2005, 10:33 PM
Wow...I don't know if Ozzie's already unhappy with his contract but he really wanted to lose this game. Timo at first base...who couldn't see that trainwreck coming? His error (surprise) led to 2 runs. Then after we had just taken the lead, he brings in Kevin freaking Walker who has barely been used this year and is probably on his way to Charlotte right now? And with an off day tomorrow?

With the Twins playing great baseball, we can't afford to give away games.

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 10:33 PM
You wouldn't say that if you lived here.

That's probably because I'd be stuck rooting for Billy Beane's bunch. Ugh!

samram
06-01-2005, 10:34 PM
Thank God we are through with the Angels for awhile.

Lip

Why? The Sox beat them 4 out of 7 (and don't say it was without Vlad, given that Frank played in only one full game), one of which had Timo Perez playing first base.

PAPChiSox729
06-01-2005, 10:34 PM
Apparently, there is an unwritten rule in sports that every team must have a token scrub player, kind of like the Yankees with Giambi, or the D-Backs with The Choice.

But don't we already have Vizcaino??

MRKARNO
06-01-2005, 10:34 PM
Let's jump right to why Ozzie again fails to complete the sweep:

1. Timo at first base. 2 unearned runs due to his error proved to be very costly. Also, one single didnt help our offensive cause

2. Bringing in Walker as the first bullpen option in a one run game. He sucks. He's shown no signs of being good. You have solid relievers like Cotts, Marte, Hermanson and Politte available for use and you go to the guy that probably will be sent to the minors between now and Friday.

3. Vizcaino to stop the bleeding. We've seen no indication that he's a good pitcher. Why put him in a role which calls for at least a decent one?

4. Thomas not in the lineup. Ozzie was just looking for an excuse to keep Thomas out. Frank said he is 100% healthy and is kept out of the lineup.

5. Hermanson not being used until today. He hasnt gotten work. It's no surprise he was rusty and got roughed up a bit today.

6. Timo batting for himself in the 9th. He wasted a valuable out in the ninth with his patheticness. Put Konerko in at that point.

7. Konerko or Tadahito not batting for Uribe. This is probably the least questionable move, but I still would have put in a hitter with a higher OBP to put the team in the best situation to win the game by continuing it. All three can hit it out, so that should not have been an issue. With Rowand and Everett coming up, better things could have happened.

Terribly managed game in which Ozzie does not deserve a free pass. He started handing this game on a platter to the Angels from the moment he drew up the lineup. Booooo Ozzie.

CHISOXFAN13
06-01-2005, 10:34 PM
Mondays game wasn't far behind tonights game.

Todays loss belongs to Ozzie and some poor defense :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

And hey Ozzie.....thanks for bring in Dustin in a no save situation.
Say good bye to an ERA of 0.00

So what do you suggest we do in that situation, let Hermanson sit again and go at least two more days without pitching?

The what happens when he comes into a save situation this weekend. It would have been a week plus without him seeing game action.

*****.

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 10:34 PM
Yeah, they beat us 1 out of 3. That was brutal!!

And with that, the feud between 'West and Lip begins anew.

FarWestChicago
06-01-2005, 10:34 PM
That's probably because I'd be stuck rooting for Billy Beane's bunch. Ugh!Hermanson was on the Giants last year.

CLR01
06-01-2005, 10:34 PM
I don't know what the Comcast picture showed, but the ESPN2 picture looked like Uribe's blast went over the pole for a grand slam.



It was foul. The ball landed even with the fence, if it would have stayed fair the ball would have landed in the bullpen. It would have had to been 10 rows deeper to hook around the pole.

peeonwrigley
06-01-2005, 10:34 PM
wow now people are complaining about using Hermy in the 9th after complaining the whole game to use the guy? Give me a break guys, we took 2 of 3 from them. it might be alright to complain a little bit, but some of you guys think it's the end of the world that we lost 1 game.

were still in first and were going to have a 4 game lead, so i don't know what the big deal is. I'll love to take 2 of 3 in every series no matter what.

Its frustrating because most all of the games we've had against the Angels have fallen into the "42 category" (win 60, lose 60, 42 make or break the team). This game doesn't feel like the Angels won, but instead that the Sox lost. I hate to see games like this get away.

mjharrison72
06-01-2005, 10:35 PM
Let's assume for a moment Ozzie isn't a complete moron.

Could he have been using this game to send a message to Kenny, that we need a back up first baseman and replacements in the pen for Walker, Vizz and ShinGONE? Like the way Ozzie played Borchard every freaken day last year so he wouldn't be stuck with Borchard this year. Or can Ozzie really be dumber than Bevington on any given night?
We HAVE a backup first baseman. He's due to come off the DL any day now.:?:

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 10:35 PM
Hermanson was on the Giants last year.

I know. I just meant that I wouldn't have cared about him because I would be an A's fan. I've always been more of an AL guy.

Jjav829
06-01-2005, 10:35 PM
I thought Monday was one of the worst managed games I've seen from Ozzie. Then came today.

Frankly, I don't have the energy to bash Ozzie for all the stupid decisions. Other people will cover all his mistakes. All I will say is that there is no way Uribe should have been batting in the 9th. K-Rod was extremely wild. With the bases loaded, you want someone who has at least some patience at the plate. There is no logical reason - unless he is hurt - that Konerko should not have been in the game in the situation. The bases are loaded, the winning run is at home and the pitcher can't find the strike zone. It was painfully obvious that Uribe would strike out in that situation. Samram said the same thing as me in the chat. That was a horrible decision. I don't care how bad Konerko has struggled recently. You don't go down with Konerko sitting on the bench waiting for Friday.

That doesn't even begin to get into the whole bullpen move and the Timo at 1st (:whiner: ) decision. This team needs bullpen help. It's not Hermanson, Politte or Marte that I'm worried about. It's that we have no depth. Those three can't pitch every game and at this point, every time we go to Walker (will be gone after this game), Vizcaino or Shingo, it's predictable that runs are going to score. We need bullpen depth. I'm extremely disappointed with Vizcaino. I was expecting this guy to be in a role similar to Politte's current role. In other words, 7th and 8th inning work with the occasional 9th inning call in close/tie games. Right now, he's nothing more than a mop-up man. Of everyone on the team, Vizcaino just might be the most disappointing to me.

A. Cavatica
06-01-2005, 10:36 PM
Worst managed game I have ever seen.

The one that got Grady Little fired in Boston comes to mind.

Palehose13
06-01-2005, 10:36 PM
I predict that the stupidity on WSI will reach a peak tonight. As hard as that is to believe.

Agreed. And here is our first example (I have yet to make it to page 2):

Our best hitter and top RBI guy never enter the game.

:hurt

What are you talking about? I WAS in the game.

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 10:37 PM
The one that got Grady Little fired in Boston comes to mind.

This one was worse. Aaron Boone's homer was a fluke.

whitesoxfan
06-01-2005, 10:37 PM
I thought Monday was one of the worst managed games I've seen from Ozzie. Then came today.

Frankly, I don't have the energy to bash Ozzie for all the stupid decisions. Other people will cover all his mistakes. All I will say is that there is no way Uribe should have been batting in the 9th. K-Rod was extremely wild. With the bases loaded, you want someone who has at least some patience at the plate. There is no logical reason - unless he is hurt - that Konerko should not have been in the game in the situation. The bases are loaded, the winning run is at home and the pitcher can't find the strike zone. It was painfully obvious that Uribe would strike out in that situation. Samram said the same thing as me in the chat. That was a horrible decision. I don't care how bad Konerko has struggled recently. You don't go down with Konerko sitting on the bench waiting for Friday.

That doesn't even begin to get into the whole bullpen move and the Timo at 1st (:whiner: ) decision. This team needs bullpen help. It's not Hermanson, Politte or Marte that I'm worried about. It's that we have no depth. Those three can't pitch every game and at this point, every time we go to Walker (will be gone after this game), Vizcaino or Shingo, it's predictable that runs are going to score. We need bullpen depth. I'm extremely disappointed with Vizcaino. I was expecting this guy to be in a role similar to Politte's current role. In other words, 7th and 8th inning work with the occasional 9th inning call in close/tie games. Right now, he's nothing more than a mop-up man. Of everyone on the team, Vizcaino just might be the most disappointing to me.

yep Vizcaino needs to be demoted when Gload comes back, which I thought would have been on Monday.

Fake Chet Lemon
06-01-2005, 10:37 PM
Is it just me or does it seem that Ozzie always goes to his "B" team when we win the first two games of a series? :?:

Killer Instinct comes from the top. Ya listening Oz?

JB98
06-01-2005, 10:37 PM
WHo would you have rather had pitched in that situation instead of Walker? Shingo. Hermanson wasn't on either tonight.

Cotts. He only threw 19 pitches last night. He could have pitched.

Lip Man 1
06-01-2005, 10:37 PM
The seven games with the Angels were gut wrenching... with one extra inning contest, four decided by one run, two games won in the 9th by the Sox, two games lost by the Sox when they took a lead into the 7th inning or later....and four late night games from Anaheim...that's why.

Lip

duke of dorwood
06-01-2005, 10:37 PM
Hermanson's problems are Ozzie's fault because he hadn't pitched much recently.

Not EVERY post is stupidity-this is right on target-

CHISOXFAN13
06-01-2005, 10:38 PM
Let's jump right to why Ozzie again fails to complete the sweep:

1. Timo at first base. 2 unearned runs due to his error proved to be very costly. Also, one single didnt help our offensive cause

2. Bringing in Walker as the first bullpen option in a one run game. He sucks. He's shown no signs of being good. You have solid relievers like Cotts, Marte, Hermanson and Politte available for use and you go to the guy that probably will be sent to the minors between now and Friday.

3. Vizcaino to stop the bleeding. We've seen no indication that he's a good pitcher. Why put him in a role which calls for at least a decent one?

4. Thomas not in the lineup. Ozzie was just looking for an excuse to keep Thomas out. Frank said he is 100% healthy and is kept out of the lineup.

5. Hermanson not being used until today. He hasnt gotten work. It's no surprise he was rusty and got roughed up a bit today.

6. Timo batting for himself in the 9th. He wasted a valuable out in the ninth with his patheticness. Put Konerko in at that point.

7. Konerko or Tadahito not batting for Uribe. This is probably the least questionable move, but I still would have put in a hitter with a higher OBP to put the team in the best situation to win the game by continuing it. All three can hit it out, so that should not have been an issue. With Rowand and Everett coming up, better things could have happened.

Terribly managed game in which Ozzie does not deserve a free pass. He started handing this game on a platter to the Angels from the moment he drew up the lineup. Booooo Ozzie.

You can honestly tell me that Frank would have been more productive than Everett tonight?

Sometimes you have to tip your cap to the opposing pitcher. What makes you think Konerko has any more success than Uribe does. What pitch in that sequence does Paulie get a hold of? K-Rod was dotting corners and his slider was biting hard in that AB.

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 10:38 PM
Agreed. And here is our first example (I have yet to make it to page 2):



:hurt

What are you talking about? I WAS in the game.

Good call. I wish they had pitched to him in the ninth. Oh, well.

And, for the record, I agree with Jjav. There's no way Konerko sits on the bench in that situation. Both Paulie and Frank should have hit.

anewman35
06-01-2005, 10:38 PM
that lineup out there today was ridiculous! :angry:

Um. That "ridiculous" lineup scored 7 runs. That's more than any other Sox lineup has done in a few days.

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 10:38 PM
You can honestly tell me that Frank would have been more productive than Everett tonight?

Sometimes you have to tip your cap to the opposing pitcher. What makes you think Konerko has any more success than Uribe does. What pitch in that sequence does Paulie get a hold of? K-Rod was dotting corners and his slider was biting hard in that AB.

Konerko has had success against K-Rod. He may be the only player who has.

JB98
06-01-2005, 10:39 PM
yep Vizcaino needs to be demoted when Gload comes back, which I thought would have been on Monday.

Vizcaino was the only Sox pitcher tonight NOT to be charged with any runs.

Nard
06-01-2005, 10:39 PM
4. Thomas not in the lineup. Ozzie was just looking for an excuse to keep Thomas out. Frank said he is 100% healthy and is kept out of the lineup.

Didn't you hear his perfectly logical explanation for this?

He doesn't play players in games the day after he has to take them out for some reason!!!!

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 10:39 PM
Vizcaino was the only Sox pitcher tonight NOT to be charged with any runs.

Don't let the numbers fool you. He sucks.

whitesoxfan
06-01-2005, 10:39 PM
Um. That "ridiculous" lineup scored 7 runs. That's more than any other Sox lineup has done in a few days.

again, i dont know why people are complaining about the offense. The offense was real good tonight, this loss has to fall on Walker/Vizcaino. These guys should be nowhere close to the MLB roster.

PAPChiSox729
06-01-2005, 10:40 PM
I'm extremely disappointed with Vizcaino. I was expecting this guy to be in a role similar to Politte's current role. In other words, 7th and 8th inning work with the occasional 9th inning call in close/tie games. Right now, he's nothing more than a mop-up man. Of everyone on the team, Vizcaino just might be the most disappointing to me.

So am I. I predicted this guy to lead the team in ERA this year. And now, even I am giving up on him. He is just horrible. I hope he can turn things around, but the future doesn't look to bright for him.

:whiner:

Cubbiesuck13
06-01-2005, 10:40 PM
We HAVE a backup first baseman. He's due to come off the DL any day now.:?:

Stop with the making of the sense. Pretty soon you will be pointing out the numbers that clearly show the angels have rocked RHP the whole year long.

samram
06-01-2005, 10:40 PM
You can honestly tell me that Frank would have been more productive than Everett tonight?

Sometimes you have to tip your cap to the opposing pitcher. What makes you think Konerko has any more success than Uribe does. What pitch in that sequence does Paulie get a hold of? K-Rod was dotting corners and his slider was biting hard in that AB.

PK probably doesn't swing at the slider Uribe struck out on, if only because PK is so fooled by most breaking balls that he wouldn't be able to swing.

Malgar 12
06-01-2005, 10:40 PM
Lay off Ozzie. Is it his fault that Hermanson gave up his first two runs of the year? And as for bringing in Walker, here's what you have:
-Cotts pitched 2 innings yesterday
-Shingo. 'nuff said.
-Politte has pitched in the last 2 games
-Vizcaino has struggled, came in after Walker
-Marte has blown leads in the last two games
-Hermanson is the closer, not used in the 7th

That leaves you with Kevin Walker. He's a lefty, and he faced a lot of lefties. If he's in the bullpen, then you might as well use him. Ozzie did not lose the game today. And after all, he's the [bleep]ing manager.

Of course your logic would work for Shingo too, as well as starting the inning with Vizcaino instead of bringing him in with men on base. Walker was no good in Charlotte and shouldn't even be on the roster. It was poor use of the bullpen any way you slice it.

Cowhead418
06-01-2005, 10:40 PM
To try to bring another positive note at least the Sox didn't lose a series to the Royals like the Yanks just did. The Big Unit took the loss as well. I don't want to imagine what this board would be like if we were in the Yank's position.:cower:

MRKARNO
06-01-2005, 10:40 PM
What makes you think Konerko has any more success than Uribe does. What pitch in that sequence does Paulie get a hold of? K-Rod was dotting corners and his slider was biting hard in that AB.

Konerko has more HRs, a better OBP and better strike zone judgement

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 10:41 PM
Konerko has more HRs, a better OBP and better strike zone judgement

You're making too much sense. That's not allowed with some people on this board. :cool:

Malgar 12
06-01-2005, 10:41 PM
To try to bring another positive note at least the Sox didn't lose a series to the Royals like the Yanks just did. The Big Unit took the loss as well. I don't want to imagine what this board would be like if we were in the Yank's position.:cower:

You mean with 26 WS titles and a 200 milllion dollar payroll?:D:

I want Mags back
06-01-2005, 10:41 PM
All he has done most of this year is kill us. He's an automatic out. Today(6/1) we have a chance to pull off our third straight 9th inning win, and he ****s up. Why was he not pinch hit for. He longer can do ****, except for in the field. Maybe we should have him DH'ed for

mjharrison72
06-01-2005, 10:41 PM
You can honestly tell me that Frank would have been more productive than Everett tonight?

Sometimes you have to tip your cap to the opposing pitcher. What makes you think Konerko has any more success than Uribe does. What pitch in that sequence does Paulie get a hold of? K-Rod was dotting corners and his slider was biting hard in that AB.
And if Uribe is a split-hundredth of a second later on that hanging curve, we're in here celebrating how we squeaked one out to sweep them. He just missed it.

And those of you calling this "worst-managed game ever," can at least one of you use the "Fire Ozzie" tag? If you're going to get all bent out of shape, go all the way, you know?

samram
06-01-2005, 10:42 PM
Konerko has more HRs, a better OBP and better strike zone judgement

Yeah, but other than that..?

FarWestChicago
06-01-2005, 10:42 PM
Konerko has more HRs, a better OBP and better strike zone judgement:walnuts

And I couldn't have GIDP with 2 outs!!

Palehose13
06-01-2005, 10:43 PM
Good call. I wish they had pitched to him in the ninth. Oh, well.

And, for the record, I agree with Jjav. There's no way Konerko sits on the bench in that situation. Both Paulie and Frank should have hit.

I wanted to see Iguchi in place of Uribe, but then again Uribe can be clutch. I had no desire to see Konerko.

Fake Chet Lemon
06-01-2005, 10:43 PM
Agreed. And here is our first example (I have yet to make it to page 2):



:hurt

What are you talking about? I WAS in the game.


Iguchi can't be called our best hitter, and Konerko can't be called our top RBI guy? I stand by that post 100%. They should have been in the game somehow in the 9th.

Cubbiesuck13
06-01-2005, 10:43 PM
Don't let the numbers fool you. He sucks.

Don't let reasoning get in the way of your posts. Your a fool.

mjharrison72
06-01-2005, 10:43 PM
Konerko has more HRs, a better OBP and better strike zone judgement
Have you seen how many 0-2 counts Konerko has been facing lately? What kind of judgement is that?

duke of dorwood
06-01-2005, 10:43 PM
Guillen is showing some disturbing tendencies that show neither he or his bench coach are on top of some game situations. The frequency of questionable moves that fail are happening at an increasing rate.

anewman35
06-01-2005, 10:44 PM
Look, people, you've got to deal. Could we have won this game and swept? Sure. Could we just as easilly gotten swept? Sure. None of these games were especially well played by the Sox, and yet they still won 2 of 3 (against a very good Angels team). We're not going to win them all. We're still going to be 4 up on Minnesota (which, if you remember, is more than we were up at all the last 3 or 4 years). We're still the BEST TEAM IN BASEBALL. In short, come on, chill out.

PicktoCLick72
06-01-2005, 10:44 PM
Uribe just misses his homer. Most AB's you only get one good pitch to hit and he almost connected. There is no evidence PAulie would have got a hit or coaxed a walk. Complain about the bullpen, not that.

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 10:44 PM
Iguchi can't be called our best hitter, and Konerko can't be called our top RBI guy? I stand by that post 100%. They should have been in the game somehow in the 9th.

I think Ozzie wanted Frank in there because he normally doesn't expand his strike zone. Of course, that line of reasoning doesn't make sense, considering that he let Uribe hit after that.

Malgar 12
06-01-2005, 10:45 PM
WHo would you have rather had pitched in that situation instead of Walker? Shingo. Hermanson wasn't on either tonight.

yes.

Palehose13
06-01-2005, 10:45 PM
Iguchi can't be called our best hitter, and Konerko can't be called our top RBI guy? I stand by that post 100%. They should have been in the game somehow in the 9th.

I thought that you were saying that Konerko was the best hitter as well as top RBI guy. I wanted to see Iguchi at some point in the 9th also.

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 10:45 PM
Don't let reasoning get in the way of your posts. Your a fool.

Fair enough.

MRKARNO
06-01-2005, 10:45 PM
Have you seen how many 0-2 counts Konerko has been facing lately? What kind of judgement is that?

Better judgment than swinging at 0-2 pitches a foot above your head.

duke of dorwood
06-01-2005, 10:45 PM
If you want to play Perez at first , do it against DEtroit or KC.

Cowhead418
06-01-2005, 10:45 PM
Look, people, you've got to deal. Could we have won this game and swept? Sure. Could we just as easilly gotten swept? Sure. None of these games were especially well played by the Sox, and yet they still won 2 of 3 (against a very good Angels team). We're not going to win them all. We're still going to be 4 up on Minnesota (which, if you remember, is more than we were up at all the last 3 or 4 years). We're still the BEST TEAM IN BASEBALL. In short, come on, chill out.
I believe that if the Cardinals win they will have a better record than us.

Nard
06-01-2005, 10:45 PM
Don't let reasoning get in the way of your posts. Your a fool.

So let me get this straight. It's okay for Vizzy to allow those runs because he didn't "earn" them?

A. Cavatica
06-01-2005, 10:45 PM
:tomato

FarWestChicago
06-01-2005, 10:46 PM
Look, people, you've got to deal. Could we have won this game and swept? Sure. Could we just as easilly gotten swept? Sure. None of these games were especially well played by the Sox, and yet they still won 2 of 3 (against a very good Angels team). We're not going to win them all. We're still going to be 4 up on Minnesota (which, if you remember, is more than we were up at all the last 3 or 4 years). We're still the BEST TEAM IN BASEBALL. In short, come on, chill out.You're going to have a lot of trouble trying to be sane with this crowd. Good luck. :D:

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 10:46 PM
So let me get this straight. It's okay for Vizzy to allow those runs because he didn't "earn" them?

Just ignore him.

JB98
06-01-2005, 10:47 PM
Don't let the numbers fool you. He sucks.

I never said he didn't. But he was NOT the reason we lost this game.

FarWestChicago
06-01-2005, 10:47 PM
I believe that if the Cardinals win they will have a better record than us.OMG!! I guess it's time for you to end it all.

Cubbiesuck13
06-01-2005, 10:47 PM
Guillen is showing some disturbing tendencies that show neither he or his bench coach are on top of some game situations. The frequency of questionable moves that fail are happening at an increasing rate.

questionable to who?

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 10:47 PM
I never said he didn't. But he was NOT the reason we lost this game.

I'm aware of that. I think everyone knows why the Sox lost the game.

Fake Chet Lemon
06-01-2005, 10:47 PM
To try to bring another positive note at least the Sox didn't lose a series to the Royals like the Yanks just did. The Big Unit took the loss as well. I don't want to imagine what this board would be like if we were in the Yank's position.:cower:


:whocares

Cowhead418
06-01-2005, 10:48 PM
OMG!! I guess it's time for you to end it all.
I wasn't in any way being negative or whining about my most recent post. I was just pointing out that we no longer have the best record in baseball anymore.

whitesoxfan
06-01-2005, 10:48 PM
well the Twinkies won :angry:

anewman35
06-01-2005, 10:49 PM
I believe that if the Cardinals win they will have a better record than us.

Nope. Coming into today we were 35-17 (now 35-18), the Cards were 33-18. And, they're losing (to Colorado).

Oh god, I just realized. How much bitching will there be if we happen to lose a game to Colorado? I'm scared just thinking about it.

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 10:49 PM
:tomatoaward

Heffalump
06-01-2005, 10:49 PM
Look, people, you've got to deal. Could we have won this game and swept? Sure. Could we just as easilly gotten swept? Sure. None of these games were especially well played by the Sox, and yet they still won 2 of 3 (against a very good Angels team). We're not going to win them all. We're still going to be 4 up on Minnesota (which, if you remember, is more than we were up at all the last 3 or 4 years). We're still the BEST TEAM IN BASEBALL. In short, come on, chill out.


I agree we are not going to win the all........But that doesn't mean we should give away some of them due to complete and utter stupidity........

Even my wife asked "who is Kevin Walker and why is ozzie bringing him in when the game is so close?"

peeonwrigley
06-01-2005, 10:50 PM
well the Twinkies won :angry:

But of course. It seems the Twins always win when the Sox have a bad loss.

I don't know if it is actually true, but it sure as hell feels that way.

adidas773
06-01-2005, 10:50 PM
This was one hell of a game, still pondering over the walker situation. I can live with 2-3 series. There's just something about Contrera's games that we can't win. Enjoy the off day tomorrow guys, we got a hell of a road trip.

Oh yea, Jeff Bratley is the biggest douchebag!

Fake Chet Lemon
06-01-2005, 10:50 PM
I think Ozzie wanted Frank in there because he normally doesn't expand his strike zone. Of course, that line of reasoning doesn't make sense, considering that he let Uribe hit after that.

I wanted Frank first too. Them Paulie for Juan "swing at anything" Uribe.

SouthSide4Life
06-01-2005, 10:51 PM
Let's jump right to why Ozzie again fails to complete the sweep:

1. Timo at first base. 2 unearned runs due to his error proved to be very costly. Also, one single didnt help our offensive cause

2. Bringing in Walker as the first bullpen option in a one run game. He sucks. He's shown no signs of being good. You have solid relievers like Cotts, Marte, Hermanson and Politte available for use and you go to the guy that probably will be sent to the minors between now and Friday.

3. Vizcaino to stop the bleeding. We've seen no indication that he's a good pitcher. Why put him in a role which calls for at least a decent one?

4. Thomas not in the lineup. Ozzie was just looking for an excuse to keep Thomas out. Frank said he is 100% healthy and is kept out of the lineup.

5. Hermanson not being used until today. He hasnt gotten work. It's no surprise he was rusty and got roughed up a bit today.

6. Timo batting for himself in the 9th. He wasted a valuable out in the ninth with his patheticness. Put Konerko in at that point.

7. Konerko or Tadahito not batting for Uribe. This is probably the least questionable move, but I still would have put in a hitter with a higher OBP to put the team in the best situation to win the game by continuing it. All three can hit it out, so that should not have been an issue. With Rowand and Everett coming up, better things could have happened.

Terribly managed game in which Ozzie does not deserve a free pass. He started handing this game on a platter to the Angels from the moment he drew up the lineup. Booooo Ozzie.i agree entirly, PS gorgeous Demotion List

Jjav829
06-01-2005, 10:51 PM
Uribe just misses his homer. Most AB's you only get one good pitch to hit and he almost connected. There is no evidence PAulie would have got a hit or coaxed a walk. Complain about the bullpen, not that.

Fair enough. We'll never know what would have happened. But it's still poor management of the situation. You have Konerko who is 2-3 off K-Rod in his career and has much better patience at the plate than Uribe. You have a pitcher in his first game back who was struggling to throw strikes. You bring in Konerko, at least there's a threat of a home run with some patience. Would Paulie have hit a walkoff slam? Maybe, maybe not. He didn't have to. If Konerko could have layed off the slider, the tying run would have been on 2nd for Rowand. It's just not a very good decision by Ozzie.

ATXBMX
06-01-2005, 10:51 PM
I wasn't in any way being negative or whining about my most recent post. I was just pointing out that we no longer have the best record in baseball anymore.

You're wrong. We are at 35-18, St. Louis is at 33-18, and they are losing right now. (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/standings/index.jsp)

halfpricemonday
06-01-2005, 10:51 PM
I wasn't in any way being negative or whining about my most recent post. I was just pointing out that we no longer have the best record in baseball anymore.

I know it's really important, but I think even with the loss and a Cards win, we'll still have the best record in baseball.

anewman35
06-01-2005, 10:52 PM
I agree we are not going to win the all........But that doesn't mean we should give away some of them due to complete and utter stupidity........

Even my wife asked "who is Kevin Walker and why is ozzie bringing him in when the game is so close?"

Let me ask - do you think we actually earned the last two wins? You're going to win some you should lose (like the last two (Monday for sure)) and lose some you should win (and I'm not even sure today qualifies, since it's not like we ever had a really solid grasp on the game). I mean, it's your life, do what you want, but it seems pretty pointless to complain about a game we could have possibly won if a few things were different. We won 2-3 against a very good team. Is that not enough anymore?

Nard
06-01-2005, 10:52 PM
I agree we are not going to win the all........But that doesn't mean we should give away some of them due to complete and utter stupidity........

Even my wife asked "who is Kevin Walker and why is ozzie bringing him in when the game is so close?"

Thank you.

YES every team in baseball loses at least 50 games on the season.

NO is it not okay to accept losing just because we're going to lose 50 anyway.

Ozzie is a ****ing retard who completely gave this game away and almost blew Monday's game, too. Just because today's loss is "just one of those 50 that you lose" it DOESN'T make it okay.

DickAllen72
06-01-2005, 10:52 PM
By the way Walker will probably be the next one shipped back to Charlotte.


Ya think?

SABRSox
06-01-2005, 10:53 PM
Guillen is showing some disturbing tendencies that show neither he or his bench coach are on top of some game situations. The frequency of questionable moves that fail are happening at an increasing rate.

Does Harold Baines actually do anything other than sleep?

I didn't see all of the game, and I only heard the last half or so on the radio out here in LA. From what I could hear, and remind you I couldn't see anything, Walker should have been pulled so much faster than he was. It was obvious to everyone. And that is where I think Ozzie fails as a manager. He never seems to know when a pitcher is done, or doesn't have stuff. It's his job to know when a pitcher is done before he gives up 4 runs in a third of an inning.

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 10:54 PM
Let me ask - do you think we actually earned the last two wins? You're going to win some you should lose (like the last two (Monday for sure)) and lose some you should win (and I'm not even sure today qualifies, since it's not like we ever had a really solid grasp on the game). I mean, it's your life, do what you want, but it seems pretty pointless to complain about a game we could have possibly won if a few things were different. We won 2-3 against a very good team. Is that not enough anymore?

People are upset not only because the Sox lost, but because they lost a game that they could have won. I can handle a loss if the Sox get hammered 12-0. If they come out flat, they deserve to get pounded. But I hate seeing this team lose close games. If Walker doesn't pitch, they probably end up winning. That's why people are upset. Every game counts, even though Ozzie doesn't know that.

Heffalump
06-01-2005, 10:54 PM
Let me ask - do you think we actually earned the last two wins? You're going to win some you should lose (like the last two (Monday for sure)) and lose some you should win (and I'm not even sure today qualifies, since it's not like we ever had a really solid grasp on the game). I mean, it's your life, do what you want, but it seems pretty pointless to complain about a game we could have possibly won if a few things were different. We won 2-3 against a very good team. Is that not enough anymore?


Nope, its not enough..........We gave the Angels yesterday's game as well. Luckily they gave it back to us.

What everyone is pissed about is basic baseball logic that our PROFESSIONAL managers and coaches should know.

anewman35
06-01-2005, 10:54 PM
Ozzie is a ****ing retard who completely gave this game away and almost blew Monday's game, too. Just because today's loss is "just one of those 50 that you lose" it DOESN'T make it okay.

Did Ozzie make some mistakes today? Sure. But that ****ing retard currently has the BEST RECORD IN BASEBALL. Are you saying you could be better? Fire Ozzie! Hire Nard!

Cubbiesuck13
06-01-2005, 10:54 PM
So let me get this straight. It's okay for Vizzy to allow those runs because he didn't "earn" them?

It doesn't make me happy but these things do happen. I thought I got silly when the SOX lost but some of you guys are beyond sad when it comes to scapegoats and ill informed comments.

Jjav829
06-01-2005, 10:54 PM
And if Uribe is a split-hundredth of a second later on that hanging curve, we're in here celebrating how we squeaked one out to sweep them. He just missed it.

And those of you calling this "worst-managed game ever," can at least one of you use the "Fire Ozzie" tag? If you're going to get all bent out of shape, go all the way, you know?

Yeah, you're right. Who needs a middle ground. We should either ignore every bad move and bad game and pretend like it didn't happen or go off the deep end and predict the season is over because of one game. :rolleyes:

*****. There are some of us that are very capable of criticizing one game while understanding the big picture of a full season. It was a horrible game for Ozzie. He mismanaged nearly the entire game. It happens to even the best of them. I still think he's done a great job and I am glad he's going to be here for a few years. But I'm not going to ignore the bad decisions he made.

Heffalump
06-01-2005, 10:54 PM
People are upset not only because the Sox lost, but because they lost a game that they could have won. I can handle a loss if the Sox get hammered 12-0. If they come out flat, they deserve to get pounded. But I hate seeing this team lose close games. If Walker doesn't pitch, they probably end up winning. That's why people are upset. Every game counts, even though Ozzie doesn't know that.

EXACTLY.....Well said

MRKARNO
06-01-2005, 10:54 PM
Thank you.

YES every team in baseball loses at least 50 games on the season.

NO is it not okay to accept losing just because we're going to lose 50 anyway.

Ozzie is a ****ing retard who completely gave this game away and almost blew Monday's game, too. Just because today's loss is "just one of those 50 that you lose" it DOESN'T make it okay.

:hawk
"Every team wins 60 and loses 60. It's what you do with those other 40"

This was one of those other 40

CHISOXFAN13
06-01-2005, 10:54 PM
Fair enough. We'll never know what would have happened. But it's still poor management of the situation. You have Konerko who is 2-3 off K-Rod in his career and has much better patience at the plate than Uribe. You have a pitcher in his first game back who was struggling to throw strikes. You bring in Konerko, at least there's a threat of a home run with some patience. Would Paulie have hit a walkoff slam? Maybe, maybe not. He didn't have to. If Konerko could have layed off the slider, the tying run would have been on 2nd for Rowand. It's just not a very good decision by Ozzie.

It's a small sample size, but I guess I see that point. That being said, I think a better option would have been Iguchi. Sure he doesn't have the power PK does, but he has the patience we are looking for and has shown the knack for coming through in clutch situations more than anybody on the roster this season.

I'm not as upset about that because Uribe did nearly connect off a fantastic pitcher as I am about the use of Walker in the seventh. Maybe it's time to give Adkins a shot again. At least he proved in the early parts of last season that he could get people out.

Tonight's game will certainly end all the talk about keeping Walker here and sending Cotts down.

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 10:55 PM
It doesn't make me happy but these things do happen. I thought I got silly when the SOX lost but some of you guys are beyond sad when it comes to scapegoats and ill informed comments.

I never said Vizcaino lost this game. I said that he sucks because he does. One game with no earned runs allowed doesn't change that.

Mr. White Sox
06-01-2005, 10:56 PM
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_150430.jpghttp://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_276526.jpg
"Stop hating on us!"

Fake Chet Lemon
06-01-2005, 10:56 PM
I can't believe all the posters in favor of keeping our top RBI guy in the dugout all night? Are you guys serious, you'd rather bet your house on Uribe? Count me as a huge fan of Ozzie and glad he got the new contract. But he was brain dead tonight. I can put down my Ozzie Kool Aid for one night and see that and rip him!

anewman35
06-01-2005, 10:56 PM
People are upset not only because the Sox lost, but because they lost a game that they could have won. I can handle a loss if the Sox get hammered 12-0. If they come out flat, they deserve to get pounded. But I hate seeing this team lose close games. If Walker doesn't pitch, they probably end up winning. That's why people are upset. Every game counts, even though Ozzie doesn't know that.

I understand why people are upset. But people have to realize that we're not going to win every game we can win. Other teams are sometimes good too, you know? Yes, the Sox ****ed up a few times, but it's not like they were hitting people and walking in runs - the Angels are a good team, and they do what good teams sometimes do. I know I'm not going to convince anybody, and I'm basically doing this for my own amusement, but I just find it really funny that people are THIS upset about a game that really wasn't at any point firmly our game.

FarWestChicago
06-01-2005, 10:56 PM
*****. There are some of us that are very capable of criticizing one game while understanding the big picture of a full season.OK, name one person in this thread other than you. Gotcha!! :redneck

JB98
06-01-2005, 10:57 PM
So let me get this straight. It's okay for Vizzy to allow those runs because he didn't "earn" them?

His two inherited runs allowed came on a weakly hit grounder that found its way through a drawn-in infield. Stuff happens.

Hendu
06-01-2005, 10:57 PM
I'm really curious to hear Ozzie's explanation for starting Timo at first with an off day tomorrow. Timo is not a first baseman, period and his error was huge.

I can only think of 3 reasons: 1. Ozzie thought this game was a throw-away game (I hope not) 2. Ozzie wants to show Kenny Williams that we need a back-up first baseman (uh...Ozzie, pick up the phone and give him a call) 3. They're showcasing Timo for a trade (then put him in the OF/DH or send him to the minors). Anyone have any other ideas?

anewman35
06-01-2005, 10:57 PM
:hawk
"Every team wins 60 and loses 60. It's what you do with those other 40"

This was one of those other 40

Oh no, are we only going to win 99 games now? FIRE OZZIE!

TheOldRoman
06-01-2005, 10:58 PM
It doesn't make me happy but these things do happen. I thought I got silly when the SOX lost but some of you guys are beyond sad when it comes to scapegoats and ill informed comments.
That about says it all. I am in a mood to smash things after a loss like this, but then I read a thread like this and feel calm. It makes me seem normal hearing the lunatic rantings in post-loss threads.

Jjav829
06-01-2005, 10:58 PM
It's a small sample size, but I guess I see that point. That being said, I think a better option would have been Iguchi. Sure he doesn't have the power PK does, but he has the patience we are looking for and has shown the knack for coming through in clutch situations more than anybody on the roster this season.

I'm not as upset about that because Uribe did nearly connect off a fantastic pitcher as I am about the use of Walker in the seventh. Maybe it's time to give Adkins a shot again. At least he proved in the early parts of last season that he could get people out.

Tonight's game will certainly end all the talk about keeping Walker here and sending Cotts down.

Well, Walker will be gone before Friday's game to make room for El Duque and we'll be back to a 6 man pen. The bigger problems right now are Vizcaino and Shingo. I really wish we had another right-hander that can pitch the 8th inning to spell Politte.

FarWestChicago
06-01-2005, 10:59 PM
I know I'm not going to convince anybody, and I'm basically doing this for my own amusement, but I just find it really funny that people are THIS upset about a game that really wasn't at any point firmly our game.That is the fascinating thing about the ragers. Everything is absolutes and black and white. There are no probabilities. They "know" exactly what would have happened. :D:

anewman35
06-01-2005, 10:59 PM
That about says it all. I am in a mood to smash things after a loss like this, but then I read a thread like this and feel calm. It makes me seem normal hearing the lunatic rantings in post-loss threads.

Exactly. It's kind of funny, my wife and family always think I get crazy at losses, but compared to most people here, I'm the voice of reason.

Heffalump
06-01-2005, 10:59 PM
I understand why people are upset. But people have to realize that we're not going to win every game we can win. Other teams are sometimes good too, you know? Yes, the Sox ****ed up a few times, but it's not like they were hitting people and walking in runs - the Angels are a good team, and they do what good teams sometimes do. I know I'm not going to convince anybody, and I'm basically doing this for my own amusement, but I just find it really funny that people are THIS upset about a game that really wasn't at any point firmly our game.

Sorry, We beat ourselves today. The Angels did not beat us.

MRKARNO
06-01-2005, 10:59 PM
*****. There are some of us that are very capable of criticizing one game while understanding the big picture of a full season. It was a horrible game for Ozzie. He mismanaged nearly the entire game. It happens to even the best of them. I still think he's done a great job and I am glad he's going to be here for a few years. But I'm not going to ignore the bad decisions he made.

Seriously. Ozzie is probably the best motivator in baseball. That is his key strength that has really put the Sox in the position where they are now. The attitude that he brought to this team is definitely a positive one and overall I'm really happy with what he's done with a team that was going to win if and only if it was a well-managed team.

That being said he looked like a total fool out there today. His situational managing was terrible time and time again and it cost the Sox a sweep of a very good team. 2 of three is nice, but 3 of 3 is a lot better.

halfpricemonday
06-01-2005, 10:59 PM
People are upset not only because the Sox lost, but because they lost a game that they could have won. I can handle a loss if the Sox get hammered 12-0. If they come out flat, they deserve to get pounded. But I hate seeing this team lose close games. If Walker doesn't pitch, they probably end up winning. That's why people are upset. Every game counts, even though Ozzie doesn't know that.

Yeah, give me those blowouts where the Sox just mails it in, but I can't stand those games where we were a few feet away from winning!

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 10:59 PM
I understand why people are upset. But people have to realize that we're not going to win every game we can win. Other teams are sometimes good too, you know? Yes, the Sox ****ed up a few times, but it's not like they were hitting people and walking in runs - the Angels are a good team, and they do what good teams sometimes do. I know I'm not going to convince anybody, and I'm basically doing this for my own amusement, but I just find it really funny that people are THIS upset about a game that really wasn't at any point firmly our game.

The only way I can answer your question is this: White Sox fans want to win. We expect to win each and every day. That isn't realistic, but it's how most of the members here feel. We are tired of seeing this team finish second. We are tired of seeing it miss the playoffs. If the Sox want to win the World Series, the time is now. This is the best team they've put together in several years, but it may not stay that way. Frank may be gone after the season. Everett may not be brought back, as well. And then there's Konerko's situation. What all of this amounts to is the fact that the Sox need to take advantage of opportunities as they present themselves. If they can't do that, then they need to back the truck up and go home.

Viva Medias B's
06-01-2005, 11:00 PM
You can call me a chicken little all you want, but my confidence in our making the playoffs has been sinking. Ozzie Guillen has had a Wannstedtian week, and it will be episodes like tonight's that will be why we don't make the playoffs if that indeed happens. First of all, why is he resting key guys like Konerko with an off day tomorrow? Why did he pitch Hermanson in the 9th inning tonight (after not pitching him Monday and almost blowing that game as a result)?

When was the last time we had an easy victory? I can't recall. It seems that every win we've had for the past two or three weeks has been a nail-biter. Can't we every have a game when we just beat the crap out of someone and not feel nervous that we could blow it? These narrow victories will only carry us so far. They won't beat opponents in October, if in fact we have any.

That franchise record start hasn't won us a damn thing. And with Minnesota now just 4 games back (probably 3 after tomorrow), only the most nave among us would believe that we have our ticket to October punched on June 1st.

bludupree
06-01-2005, 11:00 PM
I can't believe all the posters in favor of keeping our top RBI guy in the dugout all night? Are you guys serious, you'd rather bet your house on Uribe? Count me as a huge fan of Ozzie and glad he got the new contract. But he was brain dead tonight. I can put down my Ozzie Kool Aid for one night and see that and rip him!


Not that I agree with the reasoning, but I believe Ozzie said paulie wanted a day off and he wanted to give him the entire day off.

FarWestChicago
06-01-2005, 11:01 PM
That about says it all. I am in a mood to smash things after a loss like this, but then I read a thread like this and feel calm. It makes me seem normal hearing the lunatic rantings in post-loss threads.LOL!! That's a good point. I get pissed, too. But the raving maniacs around here actually calm me down. :cool:

MRKARNO
06-01-2005, 11:02 PM
Kevin Walker earned a bonus for his brilliant outing tonight:

A free plane ticket...




to Charlotte.

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 11:02 PM
Yeah, give me those blowouts where the Sox just mails it in, but I can't stand those games where we were a few feet away from winning!

That's not what I said. I said that I can deal with a loss if they have no chance of winning, but I do not like seeing this team lose games when they have the opportunity to win. Every game is worth the same amount. More wins in April, May, and June make things easier as the season goes on.

FarWestChicago
06-01-2005, 11:03 PM
You can call me a chicken little all you want, but my confidence in our making the playoffs has been sinking.Oh hell, Viva. You've always been an absolute nutcase. We expect that from you. :D:

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 11:03 PM
Kevin Walker earned a bonus for his brilliant outing tonight:

A free plane ticket...




to Charlotte.

Good. It will be awhile before he comes back.

Cubbiesuck13
06-01-2005, 11:03 PM
I'm really curious to hear Ozzie's explanation for starting Timo at first with an off day tomorrow. Timo is not a first baseman, period and his error was huge.

I can only think of 3 reasons: 1. Ozzie thought this game was a throw-away game (I hope not) 2. Ozzie wants to show Kenny Williams that we need a back-up first baseman (uh...Ozzie, pick up the phone and give him a call) 3. They're showcasing Timo for a trade (then put him in the OF/DH or send him to the minors). Anyone have any other ideas?


His error had nothing to do with being a first baseman. It was simple- don't back hand a ball you should catch in front of you. Plus he has payed 1B before.

What do you think Ross Gload is? Perhaps a back up 1B on the DL? Ya, I am sure this is the way The Oz talks to KW because we all know he is shy.

SABRSox
06-01-2005, 11:04 PM
Not that I agree with the reasoning, but I believe Ozzie said paulie wanted a day off and he wanted to give him the entire day off.

So you're saying Paulie preferred to sit on the bench and lose rather than give his team a chance to win...

Of course, that makes perfect sense.

whitesoxfan
06-01-2005, 11:04 PM
Kevin Walker earned a bonus for his brilliant outing tonight:

A free plane ticket...




to Charlotte.

:hawk

HE GONE!

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 11:04 PM
I'm surprised that jeremy hasn't shown up to rub this in our faces. He probably thinks Jeremy Reed could have won the game by himself.

CHISOXFAN13
06-01-2005, 11:04 PM
You can call me a chicken little all you want, but my confidence in our making the playoffs has been sinking. Ozzie Guillen has had a Wannstedtian week, and it will be episodes like tonight's that will be why we don't make the playoffs if that indeed happens. First of all, why is he resting key guys like Konerko with an off day tomorrow? Why did he pitch Hermanson in the 9th inning tonight (after not pitching him Monday and almost blowing that game as a result)?

When was the last time we had an easy victory? I can't recall. It seems that every win we've had for the past two or three weeks has been a nail-biter. Can't we every have a game when we just beat the crap out of someone and not feel nervous that we could blow it? These narrow victories will only carry us so far. They won't beat opponents in October, if in fact we have any.

That franchise record start hasn't won us a damn thing. And with Minnesota now just 4 games back (probably 3 after tomorrow), only the most nave among us would believe that we have our ticket to October punched on June 1st.

Is it that difficult for people to understand that if Hermanson didn't pitch tonight, that he'd be even more rusty when we need him in save situation as soon as this weekend?

He hadn't pitched in a while. It was the right decision, IMO.

MRKARNO
06-01-2005, 11:04 PM
You can call me a chicken little all you want, but my confidence in our making the playoffs has been sinking. Ozzie Guillen has had a Wannstedtian week, and it will be episodes like tonight's that will be why we don't make the playoffs if that indeed happens. First of all, why is he resting key guys like Konerko with an off day tomorrow? Why did he pitch Hermanson in the 9th inning tonight (after not pitching him Monday and almost blowing that game as a result)?

When was the last time we had an easy victory? I can't recall. It seems that every win we've had for the past two or three weeks has been a nail-biter. Can't we every have a game when we just beat the crap out of someone and not feel nervous that we could blow it? These narrow victories will only carry us so far. They won't beat opponents in October, if in fact we have any.

That franchise record start hasn't won us a damn thing. And with Minnesota now just 4 games back (probably 3 after tomorrow), only the most nave among us would believe that we have our ticket to October punched on June 1st.

I'm not 100% sure I agree with all your points, but a 10-11 record over the past 21 games isnt going to inspire confidence in anyone

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 11:05 PM
I'm not 100% sure I agree with all your points, but a 10-11 record over the past 21 games isnt going to inspire confidence in anyone

I wouldn't be so sure. Cubs fans cream themselves over a record like that. :cool:

Jurr
06-01-2005, 11:06 PM
1.) This was a getaway day lineup. I don't know why, but that's what it was.

2.) We had a chance to win at the end. If Juan could've gotten that hanger fair, we're talking about a RIDICULOUS win. Off of K-Rod, no less.

3.) Winning series is what it's all about. That's the approach that got the Sox to this record, and I'm all about maintaining that pace.

I am pretty happy with the Sox right now. They fought back. That's all you can ask during losses.

anewman35
06-01-2005, 11:07 PM
That franchise record start hasn't won us a damn thing. And with Minnesota now just 4 games back (probably 3 after tomorrow), only the most nave among us would believe that we have our ticket to October punched on June 1st.

You're right. Only a moron thinks we've already made the playoffs. So what? If you hadn't noticed, we're still a pretty good team. Honestly, it wouldn't overly shock me if we did go on a losing streak at some point and Minnesota ties or goes ahead. So what? It's going to be a race until the end, and right now we have a little head start. But even if we lose that headstart, we're at least the equal of Minnesota - I know it would be nice to win by 20 games, but making the playoffs by a game works just as well.

Shoeless Joe
06-01-2005, 11:07 PM
This game definitely had me scratching my head at times. This is probably the first game I completely disagreed with Ozzie from start to finish (that's 53 games into the season so that's pretty good). The lineup issue would have been fine with me today, except, we actually have a off day tomorrow. So what was the point in benching Paulie and Tadahito? And it was really odd seeing Kevin Walker out of nowhere. But it's really easy to analyze what has already taken place. Hell even the Mayor put his 5 cents in on Ozzie's moves.

Oh well. I put this one in the 60 games we'll lose this season. By the way, I'm sure everyone watching the game wanted Big Frank to crank that ball out for a grand slam. I know I did. Now let's teach C.C. Sabathia why they won't win the division this weekend.

Cubbiesuck13
06-01-2005, 11:07 PM
So you're saying Paulie preferred to sit on the bench and lose rather than give his team a chance to win...

Of course, that makes perfect sense.

Oh you didn't know PK was a cancer? Just wait untill you hear what he said about Uribe's at bat tonight...

Bisco Stu
06-01-2005, 11:07 PM
Frankly, I found it encouraging we scored 6 runs. Glad to see the O come to life a bit. It was one of those "softball" games. So now we're only on pace to win 107 games, I'm not worried. Keep winning 2 outta 3, that's the goal, that's the focus, that's the formula for succe$$.

DickAllen72
06-01-2005, 11:08 PM
They're showcasing Timo for a trade (then put him in the OF/DH or send him to the minors). Anyone have any other ideas?


I'm sure teams will be beating down KW's door to trade for Timo now that they know he can play some first base!

I think Timo is Ozzie's favorite and he's trying to give him every opportunity to show that he should not be the one cut when Gload is ready to come off the DL.

Gload should replace Timo. I don't blame Timo for the loss. Actually he did surprisingly well at first considering he has no business playing there. But although he has value as a role player on the bench, he's the least valuable player on the roster and should be cut to make room for Ross Gload.

chisoxmike
06-01-2005, 11:08 PM
I really dont have energy to post after the last three games.

Enjoy the TBGR...
Sox (Kevin Walker) Can't Hold On (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=4&id=2855)

Jjav829
06-01-2005, 11:09 PM
You can call me a chicken little all you want, but my confidence in our making the playoffs has been sinking. Ozzie Guillen has had a Wannstedtian week, and it will be episodes like tonight's that will be why we don't make the playoffs if that indeed happens. First of all, why is he resting key guys like Konerko with an off day tomorrow? Why did he pitch Hermanson in the 9th inning tonight (after not pitching him Monday and almost blowing that game as a result)?

When was the last time we had an easy victory? I can't recall. It seems that every win we've had for the past two or three weeks has been a nail-biter. Can't we every have a game when we just beat the crap out of someone and not feel nervous that we could blow it? These narrow victories will only carry us so far. They won't beat opponents in October, if in fact we have any.

That franchise record start hasn't won us a damn thing. And with Minnesota now just 4 games back (probably 3 after tomorrow), only the most nave among us would believe that we have our ticket to October punched on June 1st.

Relax. It's not like Ozzie's strength is in-game managing anyways. He's here because of his ability to get the best out of his players, not because he's a great manager of the game. Besides, it's only his second year. I'm as pissed as anyone at how he handled tonight, but it's important to remember that this is only his second year as a manager. He's going to make his share of mistakes.

This team isn't going to have many easy victories. That's a product of winning with pitching, defense and speed. This team is designed to be in position to win nearly every game. But those wins are going to be close wins. You want easy victories? Follow the Texas Rangers. They'll have many easy victories because of their great offense. They'll also have a lot of losses because their pitching is crap and ultimately they'll go nowhere.

anewman35
06-01-2005, 11:10 PM
I'm not 100% sure I agree with all your points, but a 10-11 record over the past 21 games isnt going to inspire confidence in anyone

17 of those 21 games were against 3 of the best teams in the league, half of them on the road. 10-11 against KC, Colorado, and Houston might be a problem. 10-11 against Baltimore, Texas, and Anaheim isn't.

samram
06-01-2005, 11:10 PM
*****. There are some of us that are very capable of criticizing one game while understanding the big picture of a full season. It was a horrible game for Ozzie. He mismanaged nearly the entire game. It happens to even the best of them. I still think he's done a great job and I am glad he's going to be here for a few years. But I'm not going to ignore the bad decisions he made.

Exactly. Ozzie is the best manager the Sox have had since LaRussa and he's doing a great job. That doesn't mean he's above criticism when he makes poor decisions. Plus, if there's a post-game thread, what else should be talked about, if not manager's decisions? :smile:

JB98
06-01-2005, 11:11 PM
Oh you didn't know PK was a cancer? Just wait untill you hear what he said about Uribe's at bat tonight...

LOL. I have a feeling the Konerko haters will never let that silly comment about the deke die.

Incidentally, the Yankees lost to the Royals for the second game in a row tonight. Do you suppose their fan board is in full meltdown mode?

Heffalump
06-01-2005, 11:11 PM
I'm sure teams will be beating down KW's door to trade for Timo now that they know he can play some first base!

I think Timo is Ozzie's favorite and he's trying to give him every opportunity to show that he should not be the one cut when Gload is ready to come off the DL.

Gload should replace Timo. I don't blame Timo for the loss. Actually he did surprisingly well at first considering he has no business playing there. But although he has value as a role player on the bench, he's the least valuable player on the roster and should be cut to make room for Ross Gload.


I agree. Barring unforeseen events, Timo should be sent down when Gload returns. He provides the least value out of our other subs.

bludupree
06-01-2005, 11:11 PM
So you're saying Paulie preferred to sit on the bench and lose rather than give his team a chance to win...

Of course, that makes perfect sense.

I said I didn't agree with it, so I'm not saying that. That is what Ozzie said on the post-game show.

halfpricemonday
06-01-2005, 11:12 PM
I'm not 100% sure I agree with all your points, but a 10-11 record over the past 21 games isnt going to inspire confidence in anyone

Well, considering those 21 games encompassed our longest road trip of the season which included two of the top teams in the AL, I'll try to keep upbeat. Considering our next series will include our two best pitchers against a division opponent playing under .500 ball, I think I have a good reason to think positive.

NSSoxFan
06-01-2005, 11:12 PM
Just got back from the outside. People have begun gathering two of every animal, purchasing all the bottled goods at Jewel, Costco, Dominicks, anywhere you can think of. The sirens began blaring about forty minutes ago. Seems that the armaggedon has come.

There was a newspaper boy on the corner selling late edition papers. The headline reads: Sox Lose. Guillen is moron. World Ends Tonight! The article goes on to read that the Sox are in serious danger of losing the best record in the Majors. Also, seems that the Twins have surprised every sane baseball fan and are hanging tough in June.

It was nice knowing you guys.

NSSoxFan signing out.

:roflmao:

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 11:12 PM
Timo Perez = :hitless

Jjav829
06-01-2005, 11:12 PM
Incidentally, the Yankees lost to the Royals for the second game in a row tonight. Do you suppose their fan board is in full meltdown mode?

Nah, they let Steinbrenner handle the full meltdown stuff. :wink:

Heffalump
06-01-2005, 11:13 PM
Exactly. Ozzie is the best manager the Sox have had since LaRussa and he's doing a great job. That doesn't mean he's above criticism when he makes poor decisions. Plus, if there's a post-game thread, what else should be talked about, if not manager's decisions? :smile:


I whole heartedly agree that Ozzie is a great manager in the clubhouse and in motivivating/defending his players. However, I have yet to gain complete confidence in his ability to make in-game decisions, like those he missed today.

Hopefully, he will prove me wrong over the course of the season...........One thing I am confident of is that it will be a wild ride!!!

SABRSox
06-01-2005, 11:13 PM
I agree. Barring unforeseen events, Timo should be sent down when Gload returns. He provides the least value out of our other subs.

As long as it's not some scheme where Frank is put on the DL because they'll be playing in National League parks next week. Frank as a pinch hitter is more valuable than Timo Perez.

ChiSoxGirl
06-01-2005, 11:14 PM
When I heard today's lineup on Mac, Jurko, & Harry, Jerry Manuel came to mind. Timo Perez at 1B?! What in the world was that about?? :?: Why, oh why Guillen insists on tinkering with the lineup when we're in line for a sweep, I'll never know! Kevin Walker- HE GONE! He sucked royally tonight and you go from bad to just as bad with Vizcaino relieving Walker!

The bottom of the 9th had some positives. Once again, we managed to get the tying and go ahead runs to the plate; albeit with two outs, but it was still done. Frank worked the count to get a walk and his first RBI of the season. I thought we'd get to Rodriguez with him just coming off the DL, but it wasn't in the cards tonight.

Two words: pinch hitting! Where was Paulie Walnuts in the 9th? Iguchi, our only .300+ hitter? Where was he? Uribe's strikeout wasn't the best way to go down, but to his credit, he had that shot foul that could've been a homerun had it drifted to the right.

4-3 against the Angels on the season... I'll take it! 2 out of 3 against them at home... I'll most definitely take it. Would a sweep have been nice? Absolutely. But, we take what we can get against a solid west coast team. The Sox SO need that off day tomorrow, and they'll go get the Indians on Friday night!

Jerko
06-01-2005, 11:14 PM
Does Harold Baines actually do anything other than sleep?



He's just getting a head-start for Saturday (sleepover night). That's the REAL reason it's a 3:00 game, that gives the grounds crew 23 hours to prop him back up for the 2 pm Sunday start.

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 11:14 PM
As long as it's not some scheme where Frank is put on the DL because they'll be playing in National League parks next week. Frank as a pinch hitter is more valuable than Timo Perez.

They won't put Frank on the DL, because he'd have to stay there for two weeks. I suppose they could have him go back to Charlotte, but then why did they bring him back here in the first place?

SABRSox
06-01-2005, 11:16 PM
He's just getting a head-start for Saturday (sleepover night). That's the REAL reason it's a 3:00 game, that gives the grounds crew 23 hours to prop him back up for the 2 pm Sunday start.

So it's a real touchy procedure, huh? Kind of like the idol and the sandbag in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

MRKARNO
06-01-2005, 11:16 PM
17 of those 21 games were against 3 of the best teams in the league, half of them on the road. 10-11 against KC, Colorado, and Houston might be a problem. 10-11 against Baltimore, Texas, and Anaheim isn't.

I agree, which is why I'm not panicking. Their schedule from here until about the end of July is relatively light with a few exceptions (@SD comes to mind). They need to repeat their records of April and May in the month of June if they are to stay in first I think. This .500 skid has got to end against these inferior teams.

Jjav829
06-01-2005, 11:16 PM
I'm not 100% sure I agree with all your points, but a 10-11 record over the past 21 games isnt going to inspire confidence in anyone

One of the interesting things to evaluate in the coming months will be how this streak plays out. Kenny's theory is that pitching and defense is less likely to slump, meaning less long slumps for the team. Right now the team is 10-11 in the last 21. Is this an example of Kenny's belief about pitching and defense. In other words, 10-11 is a slump compared to how this team started the season, but is this the worst slump we see? Could this potentially be a 6-15 slide instead? There's obviously no way of knowing until we see how the Sox play in the next month, but it's something worth watching.

samram
06-01-2005, 11:17 PM
They won't put Frank on the DL, because he'd have to stay there for two weeks. I suppose they could have him go back to Charlotte, but then why did they bring him back here in the first place?

Well, he played tonight, so he's not going on the DL for the hip flexor. Furthermore, if he was that injured, playing in Charlotte wouldn't provide some type of security blanket shielding him from injury- he would still be playing baseball and running and whatnot, so there would be no point sending him to Charlotte, as you said.

NSSoxFan
06-01-2005, 11:17 PM
Timo Perez = :hitless

You see, that is not true.

Clayton was brought to the Sox as a starting SS. The move made Valentin shift over to 3B and we all know what happened there. Clayton was brutal with the bat and barely decent with his glove.

Timo is a utility player. Last year he fit the role, while this year he is not doing very well. Also, unlike Clayton, Timo has actually had big hits.

SABRSox
06-01-2005, 11:17 PM
They won't put Frank on the DL, because he'd have to stay there for two weeks. I suppose they could have him go back to Charlotte, but then why did they bring him back here in the first place?

I read some story suggesting a similar situation before the game tonight on whitesox.com. The mere thought of that makes me sick. Frank is ready now. Glad to see him get into the game tonight, as the move will no longer be retroactive to Tuesday.

hose
06-01-2005, 11:18 PM
I had a bad feeling when Walker came in to pitch in the 7th.

Ozzie has 3 guys in his pen that are basically useless in Walker , Shingo, and Vizcaino.

Cotts is serviceable and Politte, Marte , and Hermanson are solid.

Unless the starters keep going deep into games the pen could start showing it's vulnerability.

KW definitely needs to address this and weed out the weak links.

Hendu
06-01-2005, 11:18 PM
His error had nothing to do with being a first baseman. It was simple- don't back hand a ball you should catch in front of you. Plus he has payed 1B before.

What do you think Ross Gload is? Perhaps a back up 1B on the DL? Ya, I am sure this is the way The Oz talks to KW because we all know he is shy.


Uh...when is the last time Timo played first in a MLB game? More than 5 years ago at least. This isn't spring training; he was clearly out of position and almost booted another ball.
Yeah, Ross Gload is on the DL...hence, we don't have a back-up first baseman until he comes back. And obviously the 3 possible reasons I gave for this move were absurd (which is why I debunked them in parentheses) and I clearly stated that I was curious for Ozzie's reasoning behind it.

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 11:19 PM
Well, he played tonight, so he's not going on the DL for the hip flexor. Furthermore, if he was that injured, playing in Charlotte wouldn't provide some type of security blanket shielding him from injury- he would still be playing baseball and running and whatnot, so there would be no point sending him to Charlotte, as you said.

Frank has said he can play 1B again. He didn't think he would be able to do that at first, but if he's willing to give it a shot, maybe he should start a game next week to see what happens. I don't know. Right now, I'm just worried about seeing this team right the ship against the Cartoon Racists.

CLR01
06-01-2005, 11:19 PM
They won't put Frank on the DL, because he'd have to stay there for two weeks. I suppose they could have him go back to Charlotte, but then why did they bring him back here in the first place?


Can they even send him back to Charlotte without him having to clear waivers?

TheOldRoman
06-01-2005, 11:19 PM
Im not saying this is the reason we lost the game, although it didnt help.
Is anybody else still furious about that horrible strike zone by the umpire tonight? In the top of the first Contreras walked Figgins on two straight strikes over the outside corner. That would be fine if the zone was as narrow for the Angels pitching, but their strike zone was much bigger. In the bottom of the ninth, the first pitch to Willie was a called strike a foot inside. First the delayed call jack-ass on Monday and then this ump tonight? I hope we dont see this crew for a while.

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 11:20 PM
Can they even send him back to Charlotte without him having to clear waivers?

I doubt it, because he's out of options. The irony is, if they put him on waivers, the Angels would be one of the first teams to try to grab him.

SABRSox
06-01-2005, 11:21 PM
Im not saying this is the reason we lost the game, although it didnt help.
Is anybody else still furious about that horrible strike zone by the umpire tonight? In the top of the first Contreras walked Figgins on two straight strikes over the outside corner. That would be fine if the zone was as narrow for the Angels pitching, but their strike zone was much bigger. In the bottom of the ninth, the first pitch to Willie was a called strike a foot inside. First the delayed call jack-ass on Monday and then this ump tonight? I hope we dont see this crew for a while.

It wasn't totally consistent, but it's not the reason we lost the game. I know AJ was annoyed in the bottom of the ninth, and for good reason. Hermanson wasn't getting those pitches...

gobears1987
06-01-2005, 11:21 PM
:chunks
not at the game, but rather at some of the idiotic posts. Given how the pen was spent yesterday Ozzie didn't have many options here.

SABRSox
06-01-2005, 11:22 PM
Can they even send him back to Charlotte without him having to clear waivers?

If he went on the DL first, he'd qualify for another rehab assignment, and would not have to be put on waivers.

Palehose13
06-01-2005, 11:23 PM
:chunks
not at the game, but rather at some of the idiotic posts. Given how the pen was spent yesterday Ozzie didn't have many options here.

Agreed. I'm happy that they took 2 out of 3 from the Angels.

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 11:23 PM
If he went on the DL first, he'd qualify for another rehab assignment, and would not have to be put on waivers.

But they'd be without him for two more weeks, which doesn't make sense, because they'll be done with NL parks before that. The best place for Frank to be is with the Sox right now. There are other people who can moved to accomodate Gload's return.

:perez

"Gulp!"

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 11:24 PM
:tomatoaward :tomatoaward

PicktoCLick72
06-01-2005, 11:25 PM
Was there some sort of smoke up only for WSI posters because some of these posts are ridiculous.

Mohoney
06-01-2005, 11:25 PM
Stop with the making of the sense. Pretty soon you will be pointing out the numbers that clearly show the angels have rocked RHP the whole year long.

Yup. Guys like Steve Finley, who has done pretty bad the first two months, are starting to heat up, and we were just unlucky in running into them now.

The Angels have a much better offense than their numbers would indicate, and I think that they're going to win their division. I can't see Texas winning the AL West unless they add another solid starter to compliment Rogers.

SABRSox
06-01-2005, 11:26 PM
But they'd be without him for two more weeks, which doesn't make sense, because they'll be done with NL parks before that. The best place for Frank to be is with the Sox right now. There are other people who can moved to accomodate Gload's return.

I totally agree. I just don't understand why whitesox.com would fill their site with such garbage articles as maybe sending down Frank because of national league parks next week. Frank belongs with the Sox. His AB in the ninth tonight is proof of that.

Palehose13
06-01-2005, 11:28 PM
I totally agree. I just don't understand why whitesox.com would fill their site with such garbage articles as maybe sending down Frank because of national league parks next week. Frank belongs with the Sox. His AB in the ninth tonight is proof of that.

My goodness...were they afraid to pitch to him or what? It's nice to have the big man back.

infohawk
06-01-2005, 11:28 PM
I predict that the stupidity on WSI will reach a peak tonight. As hard as that is to believe.

You're probably right. Then again, we all need to vent and put this one behind us.

I was a little upset at Ozzie too, but I think I know what he was trying to do. With an off day tomorrow, and having already won the series, Ozzie was going to get some guys a couple of days of rest. It worked out somewhat well in that Ozzie was able to stack the line-up with left-handed hitters against Byrd and get the bench some playing time.

He did the same thing in using Walker out of the bullpen. Contreras didn't have good control tonight, and it ran up his pitch count. He battled and performed pretty well, but had to come out earlier than planned. Our bullpen "A-Team" needed some rest, especially considering they had to go in early for Garcia last night. Having already won the series, Ozzie probably decided to rest Cotts, Politte and Marte and make sure they are fresh for the Cleveland series, which, after all, is a divisional series. He went with Walker, who absolutely blew up. Vizcaino just doesn't seem to pitch well with inherited runners, but we already knew that. If I remember correctly, none of Vizcaino's runners scored, and one reached because of an error anyway.

The season is a marathon, not a sprint. Ozzie could have gone to Cotts and Politte, but he would have risked burning them out and being forced to rest them for two or three games. That would really hurt the team's effort to continue winning each series. Fresh players increase a team's chances of avoiding long skids of bad baseball.

Here are my thoughts on what actually transpired on the field tonight:

The team will benefit greatly when Ross Gload comes back. Timo was at first only because Gload is not back yet, and Paulie needs some time off.
Walker appears to be a bust, so if the Sox lose him on waivers, so be it.
Dye is heating up a bit.
Frank's value to this team is such that, even when coming off the bench with rust, he changes the pitchers mindset. K-Rod's fear of throwing Frank a fastball was worth one run tonight.
This team doesn't quit.
KW should seriously consider acquiring one more really reliable pitcher for the pen. This team will be really scary if it can strengthen what is now the bullpen "B-team" of Vizcaino, Cotts and Takatsu. (I'm pretty happy with Marte, Pollitte and Hermanson, but they need some rest too).
Hermanson was cold from not having pitched in awhile, so in retrospect it was good to get him back in there during a non-save situation. I can stomach him being cold, but it would have really felt like a kick to the gut if he had blown a save.
The bullpen was placed at a disadvantage because, for two consecutive nights, the starters couldn't go as deep as the team needed. The need to rest the bullpen is especially important because the next start goes to El Duque, who runs his pitch count up pretty fast.

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 11:31 PM
I totally agree. I just don't understand why whitesox.com would fill their site with such garbage articles as maybe sending down Frank because of national league parks next week. Frank belongs with the Sox. His AB in the ninth tonight is proof of that.

Whitesox.com is run by MLB.com, so they suffer from the same problems that ESPN does. The guys who write that garbage don't have anything original to say. They just repeat whatever they hear elsewhere and hope that people believe it.

The only place Frank Thomas is defintely going is the HOF. Beyond that, he'll be staying in Chicago.

samram
06-01-2005, 11:32 PM
My goodness...were they afraid to pitch to him or what? It's nice to have the big man back.

Yeah, K-Rod wanted nothing to do with him.

popilius
06-01-2005, 11:32 PM
:jerry

"This game reminded me of... me!"

Very true. . . during the 8th inning, I said the game was quite "Manuelesque." When Manuel won a series, he didn't care about getting the sweep.:?:

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 11:32 PM
Yeah, K-Rod wanted nothing to do with him.

I wish he'd tried to blow him away with his fastball. Then we'd be celebrating right now. :cool:

voodoochile
06-01-2005, 11:33 PM
Tomorrow is the team's second day off since May 2nd. I am really glad this stretch is over...

Frank's back, most of the bullpen and starters should be well rested come Friday. El Duque is ready to return and the Sox at the moment are sitting on a 4 game lead.

There are even signs that the bats are waking up again...

totally sucks to be us... like totally...:tongue:

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 11:34 PM
Tomorrow is the team's second day off since May 2nd. I am really glad this stretch is over...

Frank's back, most of the bullpen and starters should be well rested come Friday. El Duque is ready to return and the Sox at the moment are sitting on a 4 game lead.

There are even signs that the bats are waking up again...

totally sucks to be us... like totally...:tongue:

Imagine that. Frank returns, and the offense comes alive again. I wonder how that could be.

Palehose13
06-01-2005, 11:34 PM
Tomorrow is the team's second day off since May 2nd. I am really glad this stretch is over...

Frank's back, most of the bullpen and starters should be well rested come Friday. El Duque is ready to return and the Sox at the moment are sitting on a 4 game lead.

There are even signs that the bats are waking up again...

totally sucks to be us... like totally...:tongue:

vc-

Stop trying to make sense!!!!

Hendu
06-01-2005, 11:36 PM
Yeah, K-Rod wanted nothing to do with him.

Which is why Frank is a first-ballot hall of famer. He still puts fear into the opposing pitcher even though he hasn't gotten a hit in almost a year. Barry Bonds is the only other player who would have drawn the unintentional intentional walk with the bases juiced in the bottom of the 9th, despite putting the winning run on base.

Viva Medias B's
06-01-2005, 11:37 PM
El Duque is ready to return and the Sox at the moment are sitting on a 4 game lead.:tongue:

Hopefully it's a 4 game lead when El Duque takes the mound. Minnesota plays Cleveland tomorrow afternoon when we're idle. But Minnesota has Johan going. 3?

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 11:38 PM
Which is why Frank is a first-ballot hall of famer. He still puts fear into the opposing pitcher even though he hasn't gotten a hit in almost a year. Barry Bonds is the only other player who would have drawn the unintentional intentional walk with the bases juiced in the bottom of the 9th, despite putting the winning run on base.

Yes, but Frank's walk was steroid-free. :cool:

Jjav829
06-01-2005, 11:38 PM
Imagine that. Frank returns, and the offense comes alive again. I wonder how that could be.

It really hasn't been Frank giving the offense life though. He's only played in two games and started in only one. I'd give more credit to Jermaine Dye. Pods has heated up a bit also, as well as Rowand and Uribe.

voodoochile
06-01-2005, 11:39 PM
Hopefully it's a 4 game lead when El Duque takes the mound. Minnesota plays Cleveland tomorrow afternoon when we're idle. But Minnesota has Johan going. 3?

Last time I checked, "at the moment" meant "at this moment in time" otherwise known as "right now".

But 4.5 sounds fine by me...

Tragg
06-01-2005, 11:39 PM
Did Ozzie make some mistakes today? Sure. But that ****ing retard currently has the BEST RECORD IN BASEBALL. Are you saying you could be better? Fire Ozzie! Hire Nard!

I know I can't be a manager.

But he's making obvious, and in some cases, manuelesque (refusal to pinch hit) mistakes.

cheeses_h_rice
06-01-2005, 11:39 PM
Just got back from the Cell. Definitely a weird night to experience the ball game the way I did -- started in Section 529 for 2 innings, then moved over to the RF foul pole for 1/2 an inning, then through the Stadium Club and down to the 100 level, sat in the RF outfield next to the batter's eye, got a call from Realist to meet him in back of Section 126, then we walked the concourse for a while, looked for Hangar, walked the concourse again, went back to 126, and then I went over to 135 and sat with my brother the rest of the game.

Despite the garbage managing Ozzie did tonight (with each bad move first-guessed by 90% of people in the park), we were about 7 feet away on a Juan Uribe fly ball to LF from an 11-10 victory on a walkoff grand slam. Fun night, bad outcome.

Now let's get those Jndjans.

:gulp:

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 11:40 PM
It really hasn't been Frank giving the offense life though. He's only played in two games and started in only one. I'd give more credit to Jermaine Dye. Pods has heated up a bit also, as well as Rowand and Uribe.

Dye has looked a lot better since the Urinal series. Maybe he's finally hitting his stride. I don't envy Ozzie at all next week. He has to find time for Frank, Dye, Everett, Konerko, and Gload once he's activated. I suppose he could try resting Rowand or Pods for a day and playing Carl and Dye at the corners, but that still leaves Frank and Gload on the bench if PK is at first.

FarWestChicago
06-01-2005, 11:40 PM
I'd give more credit to Jermaine Dye.And we all know who got Jermaine going. :thumbsup:

anewman35
06-01-2005, 11:40 PM
I know I can't be a manager.

But he's making obvious, and in some cases, manuelesque (refusal to pinch hit) mistakes.

Ok, tell me this - what manager in MLB is better? And how are you measuring that?

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 11:41 PM
And we all know who got Jermaine going. :thumbsup:

The Chicago Cubs: a slumping hitter's best medicine.

voodoochile
06-01-2005, 11:42 PM
Dye has looked a lot better since the Urinal series. Maybe he's finally hitting his stride. I don't envy Ozzie at all next week. He has to find time for Frank, Dye, Everett, Konerko, and Gload once he's activated. I suppose he could try resting Rowand or Pods for a day and playing Carl and Dye at the corners, but that still leaves Frank and Gload on the bench if PK is at first.

Why does he have to find time for Gload?

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 11:42 PM
This just in: Frank Thomas has more RBIs than Magglio Ordonez.

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 11:42 PM
Why does he have to find time for Gload?

I don't know. It's Ozzie. He wants everyone to play.

Jjav829
06-01-2005, 11:43 PM
Which is why Frank is a first-ballot hall of famer. He still puts fear into the opposing pitcher even though he hasn't gotten a hit in almost a year. Barry Bonds is the only other player who would have drawn the unintentional intentional walk with the bases juiced in the bottom of the 9th, despite putting the winning run on base.

:?:

That wasn't an unintentional intention walk. K-Rod just couldn't locate his slider and really that isn't a surprise. His slider is rarely a strike. Most of the time when he throws his slider it's going to be a ball. Good hitters who can read that pitch are going to have success against him.

Besides, if K-Rod's walk to Frank was because he was scared of Frank, then K-Rod must really be afraid of Joe Crede because he walked Crede on 4 pitches, unlike Frank who he threw a strike to. K-Rod also walked Willie. He just wasn't locating well.

FarWestChicago
06-01-2005, 11:44 PM
The Chicago Cubs: a slumping hitter's best medicine.No, it was Jjav. He got on Jermaine's case real good and JD started hitting like the next day. :D:

Vince
06-01-2005, 11:45 PM
The sky is not falling, but that does not mean this was a good game by the Sox either.

I don't question Ozzie wanting to give Konerko the day off. Has he even had a day off all year? This also explains why he wasn't at the plate in the 9th. Given that Konerko was off limits, what are the options at first? Thomas? I don't think so -- he just got back, he's not at 100%, that just seems like a recipe for an injury. That leaves us with Ozuna, Perez, and Dye. I'm not sure either of those three is the obvious choice. Has Everett ever played 1B? I don't know.

If anything, the problem is with KW holding on to Perez when Gload is available and tearing up AAA. Heck, put him on the waiver wire.

Again, with the bullpen situation, I don't think he really had much of a choice. Marte and Pollite had pitched two straight days. Cotts pitched two innings last night. Hermanson isn't going to go three innings. You at least need one inning out of either Walker, Viz, or Shingo. Well, that's a "pick your poison" kind of choice right now.

If anything, this should be a kick in the pants to KW on what kind of holes he needs to fill before the deadline.

I may sound like I'm getting down on KW, but I'm not. He's put together a great team. Even with all the money in the world, no team is perfect (exhibit A: the 2005 yankees).

On a positive note, at least they made it exciting at the end. We can argue whether Iguchi should have subbed for Uribe till the cows come home. Myself, I would have leaned toward Iguchi, who hits right handers much better, does much better with RISP, and is a much more patient hitter.

Still, I like the fact that even with a game that seems like it got out of hand, this team fights back and makes the opponent sweat a little bit. Do you think anyone on the Angels thinks this victory was "easy"?

It's a 162 game season. There are going to be games like this. Managers get to have bad days, too.

Palehose13
06-01-2005, 11:46 PM
:?:
Besides, if K-Rod's walk to Frank was because he was scared of Frank, then K-Rod must really be afraid of Joe Crede because he walked Crede on 4 pitches, unlike Frank who he threw a strike to. K-Rod also walked Willie. He just wasn't locating well.

I think it was because of fear because he didn't throw him a fastball. Also, IMO, Frank's AB was a little different than Crede's because it brought the winning run to the plate.

Jjav829
06-01-2005, 11:48 PM
Dye has looked a lot better since the Urinal series. Maybe he's finally hitting his stride. I don't envy Ozzie at all next week. He has to find time for Frank, Dye, Everett, Konerko, and Gload once he's activated. I suppose he could try resting Rowand or Pods for a day and playing Carl and Dye at the corners, but that still leaves Frank and Gload on the bench if PK is at first.

I don't think it's really that hard of a decision. When healthy, Frank starts everyday at DH. If Dye is hitting well, he should be in right and Everett sits. I know Everett may not be too happy with that, but Everett should have understood that when he decided to exercise his option for $4 million. Everett had a chance to go elsewhere and find guaranteed playing time but he wanted his money. That's his right to choose that money because of the contract he signed. But he also should have understood than when Frank returned, the DH spot was Frank's and RF was going to be addressed with someone else. Everett will get some playing time because I doubt Ozzie is going to play Frank 7 or 8 straight days and Dye will get days off. Pods/Rowand will also need occasional days off. But there may be times when Everett sits for long stretches and he's just going to have to live with that.

Jjav829
06-01-2005, 11:52 PM
I think it was because of fear because he didn't throw him a fastball. Also, IMO, Frank's AB was a little different than Crede's because it brought the winning run to the plate.

Yeah, there was no doubt K-Rod wasn't thrilled with the idea of throwing Frank a fastball. But I wouldn't say he intentionally walked him with the bases loaded. He tried to get a slider over - and did once - or get Frank to expand his zone. Frank's not going to expand his zone though. I credit that walk to Frank showing his usual patience at the plate, not to K-Rod's fear of Frank.

Hendu
06-01-2005, 11:52 PM
:?:

That wasn't an unintentional intention walk. K-Rod just couldn't locate his slider and really that isn't a surprise. His slider is rarely a strike. Most of the time when he throws his slider it's going to be a ball. Good hitters who can read that pitch are going to have success against him.

Besides, if K-Rod's walk to Frank was because he was scared of Frank, then K-Rod must really be afraid of Joe Crede because he walked Crede on 4 pitches, unlike Frank who he threw a strike to. K-Rod also walked Willie. He just wasn't locating well.

Well, he was afraid to throw the fastball and was having problems locating the slider. So I saw it as an unintentional intentional walk by refusing to throw the fastball. Or maybe it's just wishful thinking...I know if I were pitching, Frank would scare the crap out of me. Crede's and Willie's walks didn't put the winning run on, so you'd think he would have gone after Frank and tried to force him to put the ball in play.

Because his slider is rarely a strike, he needs to set it up with a pitch that looks similar.

Edit: Palehose13 beat me to it

RKMeibalane
06-01-2005, 11:54 PM
I don't think it's really that hard of a decision. When healthy, Frank starts everyday at DH. If Dye is hitting well, he should be in right and Everett sits. I know Everett may not be too happy with that, but Everett should have understood that when he decided to exercise his option for $4 million. Everett had a chance to go elsewhere and find guaranteed playing time but he wanted his money. That's his right to choose that money because of the contract he signed. But he also should have understood than when Frank returned, the DH spot was Frank's and RF was going to be addressed with someone else. Everett will get some playing time because I doubt Ozzie is going to play Frank 7 or 8 straight days and Dye will get days off. Pods/Rowand will also need occasional days off. But there may be times when Everett sits for long stretches and he's just going to have to live with that.

I was thinking more in terms of the games in the NL parks, but I agree completely with what you're saying. Carl had to know that he was just keeping a seat warm for Frank when he came back, and he also had to know that playing the OF would depend on other players being availble. So far, both Frank and Carl have said all the right things about this situation, but that's because the team is winning. If the Sox start to slide, things could get ugly.

JB98
06-01-2005, 11:57 PM
I was thinking more in terms of the games in the NL parks, but I agree completely with what you're saying. Carl had to know that he was just keeping a seat warm for Frank when he came back, and he also had to know that playing the OF would depend on other players being availble. So far, both Frank and Carl have said all the right things about this situation, but that's because the team is winning. If the Sox start to slide, things could get ugly.

I think, though, that Ozzie would be able to calm that situation down. That's one of his strengths as a manager. Now, handling that bullpen, that's another matter.....

markopat
06-02-2005, 12:04 AM
Thank God we are through with the Angels for awhile.

Lip


What a tough game to watch...

TaylorStSox
06-02-2005, 12:05 AM
Well, it's official. WSI has hit a new low tonight. I'm happy to take 2 of 3 from the Angels. PK needed a night off. We don't have a true backup at 1st until Gload gets back. Who else should Ozzie go with?

Uribe gave us a chance to win. He hits well in pressure situations. Maybe PK should have hit, but hindsight is 20/20. I feel confident with Uribe at the plate in that situation.

I have a feeling that Walker will get more than a trip to Charlotte. I wouldn't be surprised to see him get a release.

pudge
06-02-2005, 12:12 AM
Wow..... I only made it through ten pages and this reminds me why I stopped participating in post-game threads... People are so mean to each other. I think most of the points brought up tonight have been valid, both the negatives and positives. What ever happened to civilized discussions?

The biggest thing that irks me about a day like today is that we have a day off tomorrow. Hence why not play your best guys and go for the sweep? This reminds me of that weekend out in Tampa in 2003 when JM sat Magglio for no apparent reason in a one-run loss. Ugh I don't even want to think about it. Let's go get 'em on Friday.

TomBradley72
06-02-2005, 12:12 AM
Thank you.

YES every team in baseball loses at least 50 games on the season.

NO is it not okay to accept losing just because we're going to lose 50 anyway.

Ozzie is a ****ing retard who completely gave this game away and almost blew Monday's game, too. Just because today's loss is "just one of those 50 that you lose" it DOESN'T make it okay.

The "retard" has brought a slightly above average team (talent wise) to the best record in baseball after 50+ games and the 2nd best record all time in the history of the franchise at this point in the season. We'll see if not playing Konerko pays off after Paulie has had two days off....it's been a long time since he had a break (we need Gload back to spell him against a RH once in a while)...Walker s***s....but if Cotts went 2 innings last night....I think the move was reasonable.....we're clearly weak in middle relief right now (Walker/Takatsu/Vizcaino) Overall we're starting to see a few wholes in the roster...hopefully KW can make a few moves to fine tune the roster over the next month or two.

Hendu
06-02-2005, 12:16 AM
PK needed a night off. We don't have a true backup at 1st until Gload gets back. Who else should Ozzie go with?

Agreed that Paul needs a day off. That's what tomorrow's for. And there is light at the end of the tunnel with Gload in rehab, so I don't understand the timing of this. Maybe there's more to it than we know, which is why I'm curious what Ozzie's reason is.

TaylorStSox
06-02-2005, 12:18 AM
Wow..... I only made it through ten pages and this reminds me why I stopped participating in post-game threads... People are so mean to each other. I think most of the points brought up tonight have been valid, both the negatives and positives. What ever happened to civilized discussions?

The biggest thing that irks me about a day like today is that we have a day off tomorrow. Hence why not play your best guys and go for the sweep? This reminds me of that weekend out in Tampa in 2003 when JM sat Magglio for no apparent reason in a one-run loss. Ugh I don't even want to think about it. Let's go get 'em on Friday.


I haven't been here as long as you. I lurked for about a year before joining up. I don't remember it being nearly as bad as it is now. Or, the end of last year, for that matter. Am I wrong???

TaylorStSox
06-02-2005, 12:20 AM
Agreed that Paul needs a day off. That's what tomorrow's for. And there is light at the end of the tunnel with Gload in rehab, so I don't understand the timing of this. Maybe there's more to it than we know, which is why I'm curious what Ozzie's reason is.


Well, maybe Ozzie figured that 2 days off would help him out. He's probably, without looking at the numbers, played in more games than anybody on the team. I'm not confindent in him anyway. People keep calling him our top RBI man, which he is. However, he should have about 55 RBI's right now. He's really failed this year. I've never been a big fan of his. He's the guy I'd most like to see get traded. Plus, he as value.

TomBradley72
06-02-2005, 12:20 AM
You're probably right. Then again, we all need to vent and put this one behind us.

I was a little upset at Ozzie too, but I think I know what he was trying to do. With an off day tomorrow, and having already won the series, Ozzie was going to get some guys a couple of days of rest. It worked out somewhat well in that Ozzie was able to stack the line-up with left-handed hitters against Byrd and get the bench some playing time.

He did the same thing in using Walker out of the bullpen. Contreras didn't have good control tonight, and it ran up his pitch count. He battled and performed pretty well, but had to come out earlier than planned. Our bullpen "A-Team" needed some rest, especially considering they had to go in early for Garcia last night. Having already won the series, Ozzie probably decided to rest Cotts, Politte and Marte and make sure they are fresh for the Cleveland series, which, after all, is a divisional series. He went with Walker, who absolutely blew up. Vizcaino just doesn't seem to pitch well with inherited runners, but we already knew that. If I remember correctly, none of Vizcaino's runners scored, and one reached because of an error anyway.

The season is a marathon, not a sprint. Ozzie could have gone to Cotts and Politte, but he would have risked burning them out and being forced to rest them for two or three games. That would really hurt the team's effort to continue winning each series. Fresh players increase a team's chances of avoiding long skids of bad baseball.

Here are my thoughts on what actually transpired on the field tonight:

The team will benefit greatly when Ross Gload comes back. Timo was at first only because Gload is not back yet, and Paulie needs some time off.
Walker appears to be a bust, so if the Sox lose him on waivers, so be it.
Dye is heating up a bit.
Frank's value to this team is such that, even when coming off the bench with rust, he changes the pitchers mindset. K-Rod's fear of throwing Frank a fastball was worth one run tonight.
This team doesn't quit.
KW should seriously consider acquiring one more really reliable pitcher for the pen. This team will be really scary if it can strengthen what is now the bullpen "B-team" of Vizcaino, Cotts and Takatsu. (I'm pretty happy with Marte, Pollitte and Hermanson, but they need some rest too).
Hermanson was cold from not having pitched in awhile, so in retrospect it was good to get him back in there during a non-save situation. I can stomach him being cold, but it would have really felt like a kick to the gut if he had blown a save.
The bullpen was placed at a disadvantage because, for two consecutive nights, the starters couldn't go as deep as the team needed. The need to rest the bullpen is especially important because the next start goes to El Duque, who runs his pitch count up pretty fast.


Spot on.

TaylorStSox
06-02-2005, 12:24 AM
Also, I was really disappointed in Everitt's zone tonight. It seemed like Jose and Vizcaino were getting squeezed alot. The Angels had a different zone for most of the night.

Konerkoholic
06-02-2005, 12:24 AM
Except for the hanger that Uribe almost hit out, KRod buckled down and made perfect pitches against Uribe-2 fastballs on the outside corner, and a perfect slider. If Uribe's a hair slower on the swing that produced the long foul ball, nobody's talking about Konerko.
The main problem I had with Ozzie's managing this week is not using Hermanson for 6 days. It's no big surprise that he wasn't sharp today.