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bobj4400
06-01-2005, 03:43 PM
Playing first tonight according to the Score...

mweflen
06-01-2005, 03:47 PM
:thud:This stinks. Bench the .220 with power hitter for the .180 can't lay down a bunt hitter. Riiiiight. Is this a "Jerry M. We've already won the series Kissoff" at work? I'd rather see Ozuna at first. Or call Gload up. Something. I am this close to polluting my britches with disgust.

TheOldRoman
06-01-2005, 03:48 PM
:o::o: :o: :o: :o: :o: :o: :o: :o: :o:

ilsox7
06-01-2005, 03:49 PM
Works for me. PK needs a couple of days off. He's started just about every game at 1st this year.

bobj4400
06-01-2005, 03:50 PM
Not sure what this means...they didnt say that Pauly was injured or anything. I guess a function of having no gload and a frank that cant play first on the roster.

SOXSINCE'70
06-01-2005, 03:53 PM
I hope he hits Paul Byrd well.I also hope he fields the ball
cleanly with no problems.:cool:

mikehuff
06-01-2005, 03:54 PM
Well Paulie definitely needs to sit, but Timo...? Come on, the only reason I could see this happening is that they might try to give him a little more value for a potential trade. He's definitely one of the most likely to leave when Gload comes back. I couldn't see how much value Timo would bring back though, even if you gave him a full month.

I agree about the post above. I hope this isn't another "let's just win the series" thing. You don't win the division by how many series' you win, it's a total count of games and yes, a 3 game sweep is worth more than 2 out of 3.

Jurr
06-01-2005, 03:58 PM
Well Paulie definitely needs to sit, but Timo...? Come on, the only reason I could see this happening is that they might try to give him a little more value for a potential trade. He's definitely one of the most likely to leave when Gload comes back. I couldn't see how much value Timo would bring back though, even if you gave him a full month.

I agree about the post above. I hope this isn't another "let's just win the series" thing. You don't win the division by how many series' you win, it's a total count of games and yes, a 3 game sweep is worth more than 2 out of 3.
yeah..this has to be a showcase job. I think Ozuna would be a better fit at first tonight. Oh well. I still think Timo's not long for the roster.

mike squires
06-01-2005, 04:02 PM
Paulie would be a good guy to have come off the bench tonight if it's close in the later innings but with a day off tomorrow can't he play one more game? How close is Ross to coming back?

shoota
06-01-2005, 04:05 PM
Playing first tonight according to the Score...

That seems bizarre. I always thought Gload did an acceptable job, but I never thought I'd be waiting for the day he returns to the team. As someone already said, Paulie is in need of a day off.

robertks61
06-01-2005, 04:05 PM
I agree about the post above. I hope this isn't another "let's just win the series" thing. You don't win the division by how many series' you win, it's a total count of games and yes, a 3 game sweep is worth more than 2 out of 3.

Especially since I'm going tonight.

MRKARNO
06-01-2005, 04:06 PM
This is pretty crazy. Timo is terrible, when will Ozzie realize this? It seems like Timo's White Sox career may have been saved by one single on Memorial Day and it wasn't a career worth saving (though I'm not complaining about winning the game). Pablo Ozuna would represent a far better offensive replacement for Konerko at first base.

Two things that I would like to see happen tonight to lessen the potential impact of this decision:

1. Frank has to be in the lineup tonight. There's a day off tomorrow and supposedly he wasnt even banged up all that much a few days ago.

2. Timo cannot hit fourth where PK usually does.

I can't wait for the return of Ross Gload...

Mickster
06-01-2005, 04:09 PM
Two things that I would like to see happen tonight to lessen the potential impact of this decision:

1. Frank has to be in the lineup tonight. There's a day off tomorrow and supposedly he wasnt even banged up all that much a few days ago.

2. Timo cannot hit fourth where PK usually does.

I can't wait for the return of Ross Gload...

If Frank were in the lineup tonight, I would like to think that Ozzie would have played Carl at first. I honestly think that Frank is sitting once again and the Crazy One is at DH.

MRKARNO
06-01-2005, 04:12 PM
If Frank were in the lineup tonight, I would like to think that Ozzie would have played Carl at first. I honestly think that Frank is sitting once again and the Crazy One is at DH.

I dunno about Carl at first base, but the reason I suggested those two things is because I expect neither to happen. The lineup will probably look something like this:

Podsednik
Iguchi
Rowand
Timo
Everett
Dye
Pierzynski
Crede
Uribe

Mickster
06-01-2005, 04:14 PM
I dunno about Carl at first base, but the reason I suggested those two things is because I expect neither to happen. The lineup will probably look something like this:

Podsednik
Iguchi
Rowand
Timo
Everett
Dye
Pierzynski
Crede
Uribe

I seriously doubt Timo will be batting clean-up....

Kogs35
06-01-2005, 04:14 PM
I dunno about Carl at first base, but the reason I suggested those two things is because I expect neither to happen. The lineup will probably look something like this:

Podsednik
Iguchi
Rowand
Timo
Everett
Dye
Pierzynski
Crede
Uribe

Podsednik
Iguchi
Rowand
Evrett
Dye
Pierzynski
Timo
Crede
Uribe

is more like it

BarbG
06-01-2005, 04:16 PM
2. Timo cannot hit fourth where PK usually does.

I can't wait for the return of Ross Gload...

Timo can't GIDP or K as effectively as Konerko does?

We are in agreement on Gload though!

mikehuff
06-01-2005, 04:16 PM
The lineup will probably look something like this:

Podsednik
Iguchi
Rowand
Timo
Everett
Dye
Pierzynski
Crede
Uribe

I hope not. Timo as the cleanup hitter? This is something that I could see Ozzie doing however.
I hope he realizes that the first baseman doesn't have to bat 4th.

MRKARNO
06-01-2005, 04:16 PM
I seriously doubt Timo will be batting clean-up....

Well he had him bat fifth for Dye earlier this season and replace Thomas in the three spot on Monday, so as far as I'm concerned, Ozzie is willing to put Timo anywhere in the lineup.

mweflen
06-01-2005, 04:16 PM
Is there a 10-hole we can put Timo's "bat" in? A 15-hole? How about an AAA-hole?

MRKARNO
06-01-2005, 04:18 PM
Timo can't GIDP or K as effectively as Konerko does?


It's not a fair comparison.

While Konerko might not be worth the 10 mil some people think he is, there's a reason that some people dare suggest it and why most people would probably give him 7-8 mil a year. Timo is barely worth the major league minimum and he's getting paid 1 million right now.

bobj4400
06-01-2005, 04:26 PM
Podsednik
Iguchi
Rowand
Evrett
Dye
Pierzynski
Timo
Crede
Uribe

is more like it

harris is playing second tonight. iguchi rides the bench. the rest of the regulars are playing.

mikehuff
06-01-2005, 04:32 PM
harris is playing second tonight. iguchi rides the bench. the rest of the regulars are playing.

Uh oh... I think we're right about Ozzie considering this series won already.

mweflen
06-01-2005, 04:33 PM
harris is playing second tonight. iguchi rides the bench. the rest of the regulars are playing.

Jerry Manuel, table for two...
:chunks

mikehuff
06-01-2005, 04:34 PM
Jerry Manuel, table for two...

What's that... Neil Cotts has the start tonight?

Ol' No. 2
06-01-2005, 04:36 PM
Maybe you should take a look at Byrd's splits.

PicktoCLick72
06-01-2005, 04:38 PM
Will ie Harris has not been playing that bad lately.

wildcat
06-01-2005, 04:49 PM
Maybe you should take a look at Byrd's splits.

?? Willie has one strikeout, no hits, and no walks in 3 at-bats against Byrd.

I don't think lefty-righty should come into play here (or ever, really). Iguchi is solid against everybody.

Ol' No. 2
06-01-2005, 04:52 PM
?? Willie has one strikeout, no hits, and no walks in 3 at-bats against Byrd.

I don't think lefty-righty should come into play here (or ever, really). Iguchi is solid against everybody.It didn't occur to you that 3 AB is just a bit too small of a sample size for such a sweeping conclusion? Lefties hit 70 pts higher against Byrd than righties.

SoxFan76
06-01-2005, 04:53 PM
?? Willie has one strikeout, no hits, and no walks in 3 at-bats against Byrd.

I don't think lefty-righty should come into play here (or ever, really). Iguchi is solid against everybody.

I think he means what lefties are batting against Byrd this season.

SoxFan76
06-01-2005, 04:53 PM
It didn't occur to you that 3 AB is just a bit too small of a sample size for such a sweeping conclusion? Lefties hit 70 pts higher against Byrd than righties.

I gotta say, you are one of my favorite posters. Your logic never ceases to amaze me!

I_Liked_Manuel
06-01-2005, 04:54 PM
i dont really follow what happens in the minors too much, but last i saw, gload was hitting the ball well. why isnt he up here?

Ol' No. 2
06-01-2005, 04:55 PM
I gotta say, you are one of my favorite posters. Your logic never ceases to amaze me!No teal?:D:

ChiSoxRowand
06-01-2005, 04:57 PM
Has Timo ever played first? I'm not sure if I remember him playing first last year. I hate this myth that you can put anybody at first, it seems nobody saw the Mike Piazza experiment.

mweflen
06-01-2005, 05:01 PM
I wonder what lefties are hitting against Marte this season.

Leftie-Rightie baloney is for chump managers, and it's almost cost us two games in a row. We need to go with the best bats, regardless of "handedness"

For the record, I'd rather see Willie at 1B than Timo.

maurice
06-01-2005, 05:03 PM
Lefties hit 70 pts higher against Byrd than righties.

That's a good reason to give Harris a start, but I'd still rather see ABT ("anybody but Timo") at 1B.

DickAllen72
06-01-2005, 05:08 PM
It seems as if Timo is Ozzie's pet and Ozzie is desperately trying to set Timo up to succeed in order to justify not cutting him from the twenty five man roster when Gload/El Duque need to be reactivated.

I think that's why we didn't see anyone pinch hit for him in a clutch situation Monday. Timo was allowed an opportunity to win the game and fortunately for him he came through. Not only did he win the game, but he probably saved his roster spot for at least a little while longer.

Now he's being allowed to play 1B to prove that he can take Ross Gload's spot on the roster.

I hope I'm wrong, but it looks to me like Ozzie will either cut Ozuna or leave Gload in the minors. Ozuna wasn't allowed to pinch hit for Crede in that bunting situation Monday, and even though he has proven he can play a little first base, Timo is being given the start at first tonight.

I wish Timo success because I want the Sox to win, and I don't really have anything against Timo as a role player. It's just that between Willie, Ross, Pablo and Timo, I believe Timo is the least valuable to this roster right now and I'd hate to lose Ozuna on waivers or let Gload waste away in AAA. (Optioning Willie is NOT even worth considering.) I doubt if anyone would claim Timo if he were waived, so I would waive him and when he clears designate him for assignment in Charlotte. But it looks like Ozzie has other plans.

WinningUgly!
06-01-2005, 05:08 PM
Has Timo ever played first? I'm not sure if I remember him playing first last year. I hate this myth that you can put anybody at first, it seems nobody saw the Mike Piazza experiment.

No, Timo has never played 1B at the major league level.
He did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, though.:rolleyes:

Ol' No. 2
06-01-2005, 05:09 PM
That's a good reason to give Harris a start, but I'd still rather see ABT ("anybody but Timo") at 1B.And who would ABT be? Ozuna has cooled off considerably, and against a crafty veteran like Byrd I wouldn't like his chances. Everett at 1B? Please. Who's left?

RockyMtnSoxFan
06-01-2005, 05:10 PM
Bench the .220 with power hitter for the .180 can't lay down a bunt hitter.

Just to play devil's advocate, Timo laid down a very nice bunt with the bases loaded and two out to drive in a run earlier this year. And most of the "power hitter's" home runs have come with empty bases. We all know what he does if someone is on first. That said, I would consider using someone who has experience at first. Why not Widger? He hasn't played there much, but he has done it in the past, and he's a much better bat than Timo, regardless of the matchups.

wildcat
06-01-2005, 05:10 PM
It didn't occur to you that 3 AB is just a bit too small of a sample size for such a sweeping conclusion? Lefties hit 70 pts higher against Byrd than righties.

Of course I know that 3AB is a small sample size. But if you're going to play the numbers game, Iguchi has a better average against righties than Harris does. I'm just saying that in any given situation, I'd rather have Iguchi in there. But hey, everyone needs a rest day. I'm not opposed to putting Harris in the lineup, just opposed to basing in on Byrd's splits.

DickAllen72
06-01-2005, 05:11 PM
Has Timo ever played first? I'm not sure if I remember him playing first last year. I hate this myth that you can put anybody at first, it seems nobody saw the Mike Piazza experiment.

Timo sure isn't going to make a very big target for our infielders to throw to, that's for sure.

mweflen
06-01-2005, 05:11 PM
Here is a list of our players, regardless of pitchers and/or splits, in order of who should be in a lineup in any given day, based on their skill and potential impact:

Tadahito Iguchi
Aaron Rowand
Scott Podsednik
Frank Thomas
AJ Pierzynski
Paul Konerko
Juan Uribe
Carl Everett
Willie Harris
Chris Widger
Joe Crede
Pablo Ozuna
Timo Perez

If Konerko is out, and "ABT" can play first, then ABT should get the call.

Ol' No. 2
06-01-2005, 05:11 PM
Of course I know that 3AB is a small sample size. But if you're going to play the numbers game, Iguchi has a better average against righties than Harris does. I'm just saying that in any given situation, I'd rather have Iguchi in there. But hey, everyone needs a rest day. I'm not opposed to putting Harris in the lineup, just opposed to basing in on Byrd's splits.But if you're going to play Harris, doesn't it make sense to do so in the most favorable circumstances?

MRKARNO
06-01-2005, 05:12 PM
And who would ABT be? Ozuna has cooled off considerably, and against a crafty veteran like Byrd I wouldn't like his chances. Everett at 1B? Please. Who's left?

I'd rather see Widger at first than Timo and no that is not in teal.

Ol' No. 2
06-01-2005, 05:13 PM
Timo sure isn't going to make a very big target for our infielders to throw to, that's for sure.Maybe Dye should play first. He's tall.

mweflen
06-01-2005, 05:13 PM
Just to play devil's advocate, Timo laid down a very nice bunt with the bases loaded and two out to drive in a run earlier this year. And most of the "power hitter's" home runs have come with empty bases. We all know what he does if someone is on first. That said, I would consider using someone who has experience at first. Why not Widger? He hasn't played there much, but he has done it in the past, and he's a much better bat than Timo, regardless of the matchups.

There have been good bunts, but I am thinking of the game-blowing bunt last month - man on third, one out, tie game, ninth inning. He popped the bunt up, and they did not score. Then, Shingo went on to lose it in extras.

One lucky hit and one lucky bunt do not erase dozens of instances of both offensive and defensive ineptitude. Timo's gotta go.

MRKARNO
06-01-2005, 05:14 PM
Just to play devil's advocate, Timo laid down a very nice bunt with the bases loaded and two out to drive in a run earlier this year.

Yes, but had he failed, it would have been among the most pathetic plays ever. I dont think I've seen anybody attempt a bunt with two outs more than Timo, which demonstrates his inability to hit.

Ol' No. 2
06-01-2005, 05:14 PM
I'd rather see Widger at first than Timo and no that is not in teal.Just for that I'm going to make Timo my PTC today.

mweflen
06-01-2005, 05:15 PM
I'd rather see Widger at first than Timo and no that is not in teal.

:yup:hear hear.

DickAllen72
06-01-2005, 05:15 PM
Well, let's look on the bright side.....Paulie's out of the lineup. He needs a break.

MRKARNO
06-01-2005, 05:16 PM
Well, let's look on the bright side.....Paulie's out of the lineup. He needs a break.

There is no bright side to Paul Konerko sitting for Timo.

maurice
06-01-2005, 05:16 PM
And who would ABT be?

I would absolutely start Ozuna over Timo. Ozuna hasn't really cooled off. He just never gets the chance to play, while Ozzie's lapdog soaks up too many ABs. Last couple of starts, Ozuna went 2-6 with a run scored and a SB.

Besides, while we're looking at splits, Konerko bats .294 against Byrd. Maybe Ozzie should pick another day to give him the day off.

mweflen
06-01-2005, 05:16 PM
Well, let's look on the bright side.....Paulie's out of the lineup. He needs a break.

:peace:

or

:bong:?


:smile:

RockyMtnSoxFan
06-01-2005, 05:17 PM
There have been good bunts, but I am thinking of the game-blowing bunt last month - bases loaded, one out, tie game, ninth inning. He popped the bunt up, and they did not score. Then, Shingo went on to lose it in extras.

One lucky hit and one lucky bunt do not erase dozens of instances of both offensive and defensive ineptitude. Timo's gotta go.

I'm not a huge supporter of Timo, it's just that I've seen lots of people criticizing him for the one bad bunt and forgetting the good ones. I guess that's somewhat logical--bunts should be executed properly at least 90% of the time.

Put in Widger and we won't have to worry about Timo's bunting abilities.

MRKARNO
06-01-2005, 05:19 PM
For the record, if Timo does well tonight, that's all fine and dandy and I'll be happy (esp. if his offense is critical in a victory), but that would not make up for his general crappiness over the past 1 1/3 years he's played on the South Side. His inclusion in the lineup at a position that he's never played before in the majors (and he's never played infield before at the major league level either, unlike Widger) has lowered the chances for the White Sox to win this game.

Ol' No. 2
06-01-2005, 05:19 PM
I would absolutely start Ozuna over Timo. Ozuna hasn't really cooled off. He just never gets the chance to play, while Ozzie's lapdog soaks up too many ABs. Last couple of starts, Ozuna went 2-6 with a run scored and a SB.

Besides, while we're looking at splits, Konerko bats .294 against Byrd. Maybe Ozzie should pick another day to give him the day off.I think a crafty veteran like Byrd would eat Ozuna for lunch.

maurice
06-01-2005, 05:21 PM
I think a crafty veteran like Byrd would eat Ozuna for lunch.

Then I shudder to think what he'll do to an un-crafty "veteran" like Timo.

mweflen
06-01-2005, 05:22 PM
(Timo's) inclusion in the lineup... has lowered the chances for the White Sox to win this game.

:yup:hear hear

DickAllen72
06-01-2005, 05:23 PM
:peace:
or
:bong:?
:smile:

I'm not happy at all about Timo being in the strating lineup, let alone at first base! But I am glad Paulie's out of the lineup for a while. He's been BRUTAL lately and a couple of days off might do wonders for him. If not for him, at least for the lineup!

I would rather see Ozuna start at first. Actually, they should have replaced Timo with Gload by now, and he should be starting at first base frequently until Paulie gets his stroke back.

mweflen
06-01-2005, 05:26 PM
Actually, they should have replaced Timo with Gload by now, and he should be starting at first base frequently until Paulie gets his stroke back.

:yup:hear hear

CWSGuy406
06-01-2005, 05:34 PM
Uh oh... I think we're right about Ozzie considering this series won already.

Harris has at least shown he can get on-base at a pretty solid rate against righties, unlike Timo...

ilsox7
06-01-2005, 05:39 PM
The beautiful thing about baseball is that none of the crap being spewed around here impacts tonight's game. It just gives people something to bitch and moan about, which, of course, is necessary for most Sox fans.

delben91
06-01-2005, 05:44 PM
Just for that I'm going to make Timo my PTC today.

He'll have 2 votes then. :D:

(granted, I haven't played PTC in about a month, but hey, Timo and I are both due)

mweflen
06-02-2005, 10:35 AM
Timo clicked all right. For the LAAAAAAA.

Ol' No. 2
06-02-2005, 10:37 AM
Timo clicked all right. For the LAAAAAAA.He's hardly the reason they lost. 1 for 4 is respectable.

mweflen
06-02-2005, 10:40 AM
He's hardly the reason they lost. 1 for 4 is respectable.

He'd have had to be responsible for 3 Sox runs to counteract the 2 LAAAA runs he coughed up.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-050601soxside,1,4985628.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines

But you're right, Timo is not solely responsible. Heaping helpings of blame should go to Walker, Vizcaino, Contreras, etc.

But the main architect behind this cavalcade of suck is Ozzie.

Ol' No. 2
06-02-2005, 10:42 AM
He'd have had to be responsible for 3 Sox runs to counteract the 2 LAAAA runs he coughed up.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-050601soxside,1,4985628.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines

But you're right, Timo is not solely responsible. Heaping helpings of blame should go to Walker, Vizcaino, Contreras, etc.

But the main architect behind this cavalcade of suck is Ozzie.Did Ozzie tip the ball after Walker Vizcaino and Hermanson threw it? Among them they gave up 6 runs in 3 IP. If you must have someone to blame, they're the ones.

mweflen
06-02-2005, 10:54 AM
Did Ozzie tip the ball after Walker Vizcaino and Hermanson threw it? Among them they gave up 6 runs in 3 IP. If you must have someone to blame, they're the ones.

Ozzie should never have gone with his subpar relievers with a 1 run lead and a chance to sweep a very good team. Bringing in Vizcaino to stop the bleeding was akin to bandaging a wound with razor blades.

I hope the day off lets everybody clear this debacle from their minds.

Again, I don't blame Timo for the loss. But he certainly did his part to contibute to it. He was placed in a situation he never should have been by Oz. As was Vizcaino.

Mickster
06-02-2005, 11:01 AM
Ozzie should never have gone with his subpar relievers with a 1 run lead and a chance to sweep a very good team. Bringing in Vizcaino to stop the bleeding was akin to bandaging a wound with razor blades.

I hope the day off lets everybody clear this debacle from their minds.

Again, I don't blame Timo for the loss. But he certainly did his part to contibute to it. He was placed in a situation he never should have been by Oz. As was Vizcaino.

Agreed. I certainly agree that every player needs a day off here and there but I absolutely despise when he takes out 2 regulars, especially Iguchi who has arguably been our most consistant hitter, and plays Timo out of position, much less at all. Walker certainly should not have been brought in with a 1 run lead and Hermanson saw the mound for the first time in a week - not good considering he could have used him Monday and Tuesday - games that he should have pitched.

Ol' No. 2
06-02-2005, 11:05 AM
Ozzie should never have gone with his subpar relievers with a 1 run lead and a chance to sweep a very good team. Bringing in Vizcaino to stop the bleeding was akin to bandaging a wound with razor blades.

I hope the day off lets everybody clear this debacle from their minds.

Again, I don't blame Timo for the loss. But he certainly did his part to contibute to it. He was placed in a situation he never should have been by Oz. As was Vizcaino.He needed to make a roster move today and he needed to find out what Walker had. No one likes to lose, but sometimes you take a chance on losing a battle to win the war. I don't think Vizcaino is long for this team, either. IMO, the #1 trade priority is not a hitter but another solid bullpen arm.

mweflen
06-02-2005, 11:26 AM
Agreed. I certainly agree that every player needs a day off here and there but I absolutely despise when he takes out 2 regulars, especially Iguchi who has arguably been our most consistant hitter, and plays Timo out of position, much less at all. Walker certainly should not have been brought in with a 1 run lead and Hermanson saw the mound for the first time in a week - not good considering he could have used him Monday and Tuesday - games that he should have pitched.

There's no "Arguably" about it. Gucci is by far our most consistent bat, and the one I'd most want to see in a clutch situation.

Hermanson was so rusty it would have taken a can of WD40 to whip him back into shape.

Unless there are some serious behind-the-scenes rationales, Ozzie's crappy bullpen and lineup management nearly cost us two, and did cost us 1. This Angels series represents a low for him.

maurice
06-02-2005, 12:32 PM
Well, that was a disaster. Timo was terrible at 1B, and Ozzie's post-game comments indicate that he didn't even consider playing Ozuna. As noted by many here at the time that Walker was called up, Walker blows. Unfortunately, Ozzie's love of "matchups" knows no logical bounds.

Neither player single-handedly blew the game, but Ozzie's insistence on playing the 2 worst players on the 25-man was a huge part of the loss. Walker's already gone. Maybe Timo is next.

I never believed that managers can win games, but this is Exhibit A on how managers can help their teams lose games.