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View Full Version : Who's comfortable with our offense?


seanpmurphy
05-29-2005, 09:13 PM
Deja vu. I think I've read this same material 1000000 times on other threads.

rowand33
05-29-2005, 09:25 PM
I think we have good hitting, in theory.

everybody in the lineup but Pods has 20+ homer potential.

Frank coming back will help our better hitters see better piches.

and I expect KW to trade for a 3B and/or RF if the offensive woes continue

RKMeibalane
05-29-2005, 11:36 PM
Why is it that, when there are two or three similar threads already in existence, people feel the need to create another one?

White Sox Josh
05-29-2005, 11:38 PM
http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/5298.jpg
Trade For Me Kenny!

DaleJRFan
05-30-2005, 01:16 AM
http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/5298.jpg
Trade For Me Kenny!

ok, we get it.

SOXit2EM
05-30-2005, 01:53 AM
ok, we get it. I think you need to swap Uribe's face w/ Dye's :cool:

CallMeNuts
05-30-2005, 09:24 AM
I'll reply on this thread, since this one is the most recent.

All of last year, and all of last season, I wanted more pitching. I was an advocate of letting hitters go to free up $$$ so we could move in what I thought was the right direction. I got what I wanted, so I can't gripe now.

Would another hitter be nice? Sure. But I don't want to give up anything valuable, either now, or in the future, to get it. So I have to be satisfied.

Slumps happen. They always did and always will. Remember our high octane offense last year? Remember the slumps?

In the 35 years since the implementation of divisions (1969-2004), there are only SEVEN teams that have ended a season with a higher winning percentage than what the Sox have today! So I'm guessing we might slack off a little between now and the end of the season.

But slumps don't last forever. The current players are better than they are hitting over the last couple weeks. And don't forget Frank!

And in the playoffs, it is all about who has the pitching, and whose pitching is the hottest.

soxfan123
05-30-2005, 11:48 AM
In my opinion, Chavez will be on the hot stove because of how bad the A's are. I know that some are comfortable with Crede, but i am personally sick of him. It would be nice to have an All star at the hot corner and you know Kenny is willing to do anything to put a better team out there.

SoxSpeed22
05-30-2005, 12:06 PM
In my opinion, Chavez will be on the hot stove because of how bad the A's are. I know that some are comfortable with Crede, but i am personally sick of him. It would be nice to have an All star at the hot corner and you know Kenny is willing to do anything to put a better team out there.The reason Chavez is there is because he's not producing in order to make the A's a better team.
from espn.com.
.219 BA, .280 OBP, 12 XBH, .323 SLG, 45 K .203 BA w/RISP in 192 At-bats and in 49 games.
I would prefer Joe Randa or Aubrey Huff.

kevingrt
05-30-2005, 12:15 PM
I am not at all comfortable with our batting. But I do trust KW in getting some needed hitters, especially if Frank doesn't come back to his old form. I do trust our pitching staff though to carry us through the season, but a couple hitters wouldn't hurt at all.

The question is would we have to give up someone like McCarthy to get a formidible hitter?

I_Liked_Manuel
05-30-2005, 12:20 PM
i dont buy the argument that we don't have the hitters or that walker's not at least partially at fault. it's not as if we havent been hitting for a few weeks, we havent been hitting all season with the exception of a game here or there. rowand, uribe, dye, pierzinski, crede, and konerko look like garbage up there (pierzinski looking better than most). if we didn't have iguchi, we would be struggling to be .500 right now. the guys i listed dont even look like they're making much progress. so what should happen? due to the lack of progress being made, i think it's time for walker to go.

tstrike2000
05-30-2005, 12:28 PM
everybody in the lineup but Pods has 20+ homer potential.

The power numbers will be there throughout the season, it's going to come down to the things we're lacking in right now with OBP, Sacrifices, and clutch hitting.

skobabe8
05-30-2005, 02:15 PM
i dont buy the argument that we don't have the hitters or that walker's not at least partially at fault. it's not as if we havent been hitting for a few weeks, we havent been hitting all season with the exception of a game here or there. rowand, uribe, dye, pierzinski, crede, and konerko look like garbage up there (pierzinski looking better than most). if we didn't have iguchi, we would be struggling to be .500 right now. the guys i listed dont even look like they're making much progress. so what should happen? due to the lack of progress being made, i think it's time for walker to go.

Thats a little hasty, brotha. These are big league hitters who should know what they are doing. Lets put some of the blame on the guys who arent getting the job done, not a scapegoat like Greg Walker.

I_Liked_Manuel
05-30-2005, 04:11 PM
Thats a little hasty, brotha. These are big league hitters who should know what they are doing. Lets put some of the blame on the guys who arent getting the job done, not a scapegoat like Greg Walker.

what's the point of having a hitting coach then? the fact that after a year and a half, uribe still swings at fastballs around his neck should be enough to warrant some kind of change.

CYGarland20
05-30-2005, 06:04 PM
This offense has got to be the worst we've had in over 15 years!! I have never seen so many stranded runners on 2nd or 3rd w/ less than 2 outs in my life :angry: KW better be looking into other options before it's too late.

WhiteSoxFan84
05-30-2005, 06:33 PM
I want to see PK hitting 9th. It's not that he's not trying, it's just that whatever he's trying ain't working. Is he just not listening to what Walker or other's tell him? I hope not and I doubt that is the case. But he has just been horrible and out of those 13 HRs he has, how many of them are solo HRs? I'd say at least 6 or 7.

I love the guy, but he is just pulling everything and his pitch selection is horrible. It seems like he's not even having fun out there and he's taking every at-bat like it's a trip to the dentist. Relax. Have fun. The hits will come.

gosox41
05-30-2005, 08:53 PM
I want to see PK hitting 9th. It's not that he's not trying, it's just that whatever he's trying ain't working. Is he just not listening to what Walker or other's tell him? I hope not and I doubt that is the case. But he has just been horrible and out of those 13 HRs he has, how many of them are solo HRs? I'd say at least 6 or 7.

I love the guy, but he is just pulling everything and his pitch selection is horrible. It seems like he's not even having fun out there and he's taking every at-bat like it's a trip to the dentist. Relax. Have fun. The hits will come.

AS far as I'm concerned, this should be PK's last season in a Sox uniform. Heck, I'd like to trade him now, but it's not happening.



Bob

Hangar18
05-31-2005, 11:22 AM
I am very uncomfortable with our offense. Cheap or not, Jermaine Dye has to go. Hes finished as an MLB player. Keep Crede batting 8th.

veeter
05-31-2005, 12:08 PM
As crazy as this sounds I think they're about to start clicking.

Frater Perdurabo
05-31-2005, 12:30 PM
Yesterday, apart from the first inning, I think we saw what kind of impact Frank will have on the rest of the lineup, even though he went 0-2.

The offense almost turned the corner. They were so close to exploding for seven or eight runs. They had the bases jammed with no outs twice. They coaxed walks and Rowand was HUGE with his two-out, two RBI double to score Iguchi and Frank.

The other guys are coming around. Rowand's got his average up to .275. Iguchi's falling off a bit lately but is still around .300 and has shown the ability to move the runner over. I'm not worried about Podsednik. AJ and Widger have done everything asked of them so far. Uribe leads the league in sac flies. Even Crede was "clutch" yesterday in coaxing the ninth inning walk.

mweflen
05-31-2005, 01:42 PM
Good News:

I think Uribe is entering another hot streak. He'll probably go through more ups and downs, and end similar to last year, .270/20/80. Rowand has been creeping upward for a month, and will likely maintain given his nice short swing. Frank looked like he was seeing the ball very well, no swings and misses. If he can stay healthy the rest of the way, I foresee .265/20/70 from him. Pods looks like he will maintain a .275-ish clip. Same goes for AJ. Iguchi seems like a consistent .300-type hitter.

Bad News:

I don't get the impression that Dye will be good for anything but 3 hits a week, maybe 1 dinger. I thought no one had a longer swing than Crede - But JD takes the cake. Speaking of Crede, he seems to be regressing back to his long-swinging ways. It doesn't look like Konerko will ever get hot. Two GIDP's yesterday did nothing to improve my opinion of him as a situational hitter. Carl is obviously a headcase, the way he swings at sinkers in the dirt. He does become Hot Carl every once in a while, but all in all not enough to justify the money or the dead AB's.

Conclusion:

Unless everyone is absolutely blazing red-hot entering the playoffs, a trade for a consistent offensive producer (i.e. something like a pre-injury Magglio) might be in order. Otherwise, it's hard to see us going deep. McCarthy for Chavez? I wouldn't hate it.

seanpmurphy
05-31-2005, 01:55 PM
:redneck The reason Chavez is there is because he's not producing in order to make the A's a better team.
from espn.com.
.219 BA, .280 OBP, 12 XBH, .323 SLG, 45 K .203 BA w/RISP in 192 At-bats and in 49 games.
I would prefer Joe Randa or Aubrey Huff.

Yeah but look at the rest of the line-up around him. I don't know much about Randa but based on a lot of people's opinions he's just a glorified Joe Crede. Forget that, if we can massively improve our third base position without giving up McCarthy, I say go for Chavez and plug him in our line-up. Also, he has one of those Gold Glove things, I think that makes him good defensively.

I'm sick of Crede. Double play bunt? I almost threw up all over the little girl in front of me yesterday. Dye? Completely ineffective. Konerko I'm willing to sit on, but Crede and Dye are just really killing me everytime they get in the box. I don't know what is going on inside the head of KW, but I hope it gets rid of some of our dead weight.

Rowand will come to life. Everett who cares, Frank is going to eat up his DH time hopefuly, and Pods and Iguchi I haven't really worried about all season. Uribe was 3-4 Sunday, 1-2, with a Sac Fly on Monday. Hopefully he is coming around too. So don't get down on everyone, but Crede and Dye, blah!

CYGarland20
05-31-2005, 02:59 PM
I heard yesterday on a SoCal radio station that Adam Dunn may be available. If we could find a way to get this guy that would be AWESOME!! I'm sure Cincy would want pitching in return, maybe we could give em Dye to replace Dunn, which I'm sure we would have to eat some of his salary, and A couple of our top pitching prospects like Gio Gonzalez, who by the way may be better than McCarthy, and someone like Sean Tracey. Also if Joe Randa is available maybe we could make a swap for him w/ Crede. This may be a pipe dream, but it sure would be nice :cool: Lineup....Pods, Iguchi, Frank, Dunn, Konerko, AJ, Rowand, Randa, Uribe.....

mweflen
05-31-2005, 03:10 PM
I'm all for dumping Dye for Dunn, but Crede for Randa straight-up is INSANE. Randa is ancient (35 vs. Crede's 27), and his career numbers are not significantly better than Crede's (.767 career OPS vs. Crede's .727).

Chavez, I'd do, because it's an upgrade (27 years old, multiple gold gloves, .842 career OPS). But Randa, NO WAY.

LVSoxFan
05-31-2005, 03:10 PM
Not to pile on, but I was there yesterday and at about the 7th innning a) I almost left and b) I was going to post 1st thing here: OUR OFFENSE SUCKS.

Because it does suck. Let me count the ways:

a) Once again, a three-run spurt and then they go on a coffee break, as someone here said so well

b) Once again, sitting on that tiny lead and hoping the pitchers don't give up a mistake that costs us the game. Oops! And that's exactly what we did. Again. Yeah, we got out of this one but that's not the point.

c) Crede? OMG. If I have to see one more pop up from him--he even popped his bunt! Dye? Yikes. Aaron is blah. And don't even get me started on Everett. How many punchouts does that guy have? It seems like 9 out of 10.

d) What is with our guys being constantly thrown out at home plate? Twice yesterday, including Pods. Does Joey Cora need a new prescription?

e) Worst of all though by far: the amazing amount of men stranded on base. Bases loaded time and time again and... nothing. This has been going on for at least a month.

f) And is there anybody who can steal besides Pods on our "smart ball" team? Granted, Rowand got one (only because of a bad throw), but geez. Only Willie besides and that's only 'cause Ozzie shamed him into it.

What we don't have is explosions. Strung-together assaults (like Texas' 7th innning against Garland that killed us) that put it out of reach. We sit on these tiny leads, just waiting to lose.

I hate to point fingers but if the guys' self-adjustments aren't working, then maybe it's time to look at Walker.

mweflen
05-31-2005, 03:36 PM
Not to pile on, but I was there yesterday and at about the 7th innning a) I almost left and b) I was going to post 1st thing here: OUR OFFENSE SUCKS.

Because it does suck.

Hey, you weren't sitting in 520 row 7, were you? Man, that guy was ANNOYING.

Just kidding. :smile:

I agree with most of your points. The main thing is, the pitching is starting to come back to earth, as any realistic fan knew it would. We have just about 34 of the luckiest wins ever seen in the majors. The bats had better start producing, or heads are going to roll.

PS - Willie should have been going on 2-0 yesterday. I saw that from my seat in 520. And after reading what Ozzie's reaction to him not going was, I know my instincts were right.

CYGarland20
05-31-2005, 03:56 PM
I'm all for dumping Dye for Dunn, but Crede for Randa straight-up is INSANE. Randa is ancient (35 vs. Crede's 27), and his career numbers are not significantly better than Crede's (.767 career OPS vs. Crede's .727).

Chavez, I'd do, because it's an upgrade (27 years old, multiple gold gloves, .842 career OPS). But Randa, NO WAY. The thing about Randa is that he is not a homerun hitter, but the guy has consistenly hit for a good avg, and is a good defender. We need more consistency in this lineup, and w/ the way our pitchers are going this year, this may be our shot to win it all. Also I just don't see Crede getting much better offensively, the guy's swing is WAAAAAAY too long. :(:

mweflen
05-31-2005, 04:00 PM
The thing about Randa is that he is not a homerun hitter, but the guy has consistenly hit for a high avg, and is a good defender. We need more consistency in this lineup, and w/ the way our pitchers are going this year, this may be our shot to win it all. Also I just don't see Crede getting much better offensively, the guy's swing is WAAAAAAY too long. :(:

I agree on Crede's loooong swing, and his lack of consistency (actually, he's been a pretty consistent .230 hitter for the past 8 months...). But Crede is 27, and likely has at least a small upward trend in store. Randa is 35. If we did Crede for Randa, we'd better get something else of value from Cincy. Randa and Dunn for Crede and Dye? Maybe if we threw in McCarthy...

PicktoCLick72
05-31-2005, 04:05 PM
Pods got thrown out at the plate b/c the bases were loaded and he had to run. Finley made an awesome throw to get Widger. I do not want Joey Cora to stop being aggressive.

CYGarland20
05-31-2005, 04:11 PM
Randa and Dunn for Crede and Dye? Maybe if we threw in McCarthy... That move is not out of the realm of possibility, but i do think it's going to take even more to get Dunn. Now that I think about it, the problem w/ this trade is that Dye is signed through next year, and we got Brian Anderson waiting in the wings. So maybe the Randa trade is more likely a this point...... But how about Dunn replacing Dye this year, and then possibly moving to DH or 1b next year if we don't resign Everett, Frank, or PK?? Oh the possibilities .......

LVSoxFan
05-31-2005, 04:46 PM
Pods got thrown out at the plate b/c the bases were loaded and he had to run. Finley made an awesome throw to get Widger. I do not want Joey Cora to stop being aggressive.

I'm not talkin' about the force out I'm talking about the first time.

I don't want them to be timid on the bases, but it just seems like a lot of tagouts at the plate lately.

Cowhead418
05-31-2005, 05:06 PM
I'm just going to say that the offense has come to the point where I dread being in 2nd and 3rd no outs or bases loaded 1 out situations because I KNOW we aren't going to score. Every time this happens I have a feeling we aren't going to score. Unfortunately most of the time we don't.

ExpoPuddingHead
05-31-2005, 05:18 PM
You guys are all over the offense especially Konerko, Dye and Crede. Now Dye has been improving a lot lately and is doing a lot better than guys like everett.

Konerko has been making hard contact with the ball but that is not the problem. Konerko is trying to get a single every time he is up with runners on base. He should go for a sac fly and hit it up in the air but instead he tries to drive in all the runs by himself with a hard hit ball which is usually fielded into a double play.

Crede, though he did get a good walk in the 9th yesterday is beyond redemption. He just sucks. He almost bunted into a triple play and then he screws up bunting in the 9th. I'd rather see Konerko try to bunt for a hit than see crede up at the plate ever again. At least they have a chance of moving the runners along. My god.

I was wondering if Gload could play third base. Maybe that would be an answer to this problem.

Cowhead418
05-31-2005, 05:26 PM
Hey, you weren't sitting in 520 row 7, were you? Man, that guy was ANNOYING.

Just kidding. :smile:

I agree with most of your points. The main thing is, the pitching is starting to come back to earth, as any realistic fan knew it would. We have just about 34 of the luckiest wins ever seen in the majors. The bats had better start producing, or heads are going to roll.

PS - Willie should have been going on 2-0 yesterday. I saw that from my seat in 520. And after reading what Ozzie's reaction to him not going was, I know my instincts were right.
You may be right about that but remember how all we could say the last three years is about how lucky the Twins were and how their luck was bound to run out? So it doesn't really bother me all that much. And how much luck it took to win those games really depends on your perspective.

mweflen
05-31-2005, 05:27 PM
Gload has played 3rd. As have Ozuna and Uribe. Methinks we'll be seeing some punitive defensive replacements if we have any more of those bunting debacles...

Let me just say: I like Joe Crede. I met him at ESPN Zone, and he was a great guy to hang around with and shoot hoops with. He was super-nice and I wish him the absolute best.:smile:

But I wanted to rip his %$#-ing head off when he almost bunted into a triple play, and then stunk it up again on two straight bunt attempts in the ninth.:angry:

mweflen
05-31-2005, 05:29 PM
You may be right about that but remember how all we could say the last three years is about how lucky the Twins were and how their luck was bound to run out? So it doesn't really bother me all that much. And how much luck it took to win those games really depends on your perspective.

I'm no propellor-head, but we're playing well above our stats right now (not being a propellor head, I can't recall what the stats are. ZIPS or FLIPS or CRIPS or something). I'd like to see our stats come a little closer to our record, just for comfort's sake.

MisterB
05-31-2005, 05:39 PM
I'm not talkin' about the force out I'm talking about the first time.

I don't want them to be timid on the bases, but it just seems like a lot of tagouts at the plate lately.

Pods was only on base twice - the first time was bases loaded and he was forced at home, the second was the single that wound up with Widger out at the plate.

veeter
05-31-2005, 06:05 PM
I heard yesterday on a SoCal radio station that Adam Dunn may be available. If we could find a way to get this guy that would be AWESOME!! I'm sure Cincy would want pitching in return, maybe we could give em Dye to replace Dunn, which I'm sure we would have to eat some of his salary, and A couple of our top pitching prospects like Gio Gonzalez, who by the way may be better than McCarthy, and someone like Sean Tracey. Also if Joe Randa is available maybe we could make a swap for him w/ Crede. This may be a pipe dream, but it sure would be nice :cool: Lineup....Pods, Iguchi, Frank, Dunn, Konerko, AJ, Rowand, Randa, Uribe..... To give Cincy Dye and Gio would be crazy or just plain dumb. These mid-season pick-ups are never any guarantee. Gio Gonzalez being a stud I think is a guarantee.

maurice
05-31-2005, 06:11 PM
Gload has played 3rd.

:?:
When was this? He throws left-handed.

mweflen
05-31-2005, 06:12 PM
:?:
When was this? He throws left-handed.

Eh, I just looked (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_player_locator_results.jsp?playerLocator=gload ), maybe not :redface: I could have sworn that he had! But who says there can't be a leftie 3B? There have to have been some in MLB history...

jhill36
05-31-2005, 06:24 PM
I'll reply on this thread, since this one is the most recent.

All of last year, and all of last season, I wanted more pitching. I was an advocate of letting hitters go to free up $$$ so we could move in what I thought was the right direction. I got what I wanted, so I can't gripe now.

Would another hitter be nice? Sure. But I don't want to give up anything valuable, either now, or in the future, to get it. So I have to be satisfied.

Slumps happen. They always did and always will. Remember our high octane offense last year? Remember the slumps?

In the 35 years since the implementation of divisions (1969-2004), there are only SEVEN teams that have ended a season with a higher winning percentage than what the Sox have today! So I'm guessing we might slack off a little between now and the end of the season.

But slumps don't last forever. The current players are better than they are hitting over the last couple weeks. And don't forget Frank!

And in the playoffs, it is all about who has the pitching, and whose pitching is the hottest.

I have to agree. Hell, getting Frank back is like a trade in itself. I JUST WISH TO GOD HE WOULD STAY IN THE LINEUP!!!! I'm hoping for him to get at least 400 at bats, which is still possible with the games that are left. But just barely.

In 94 he played 113 games and still had one of his many 100-walk, 100-run, 100-RBI seasons. So it can happen this season, but he's got to stay healthy.

Anyway, let's stick with the horse that brung us. I'm only comfortable with Eric Chavez if any trade is inevitable. Otherwise let's go through this with who we have.

CYGarland20
06-01-2005, 02:54 AM
To give Cincy Dye and Gio would be crazy or just plain dumb. These mid-season pick-ups are never any guarantee. Gio Gonzalez being a stud I think is a guarantee. Ok, we'll give em Timo & Adkins, that should do :rolleyes:

ma_deuce
06-01-2005, 10:28 AM
Eh, I just looked (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_player_locator_results.jsp?playerLocator=gload ), maybe not :redface: I could have sworn that he had! But who says there can't be a leftie 3B? There have to have been some in MLB history...
Hank Blalock with the Rangers in the only left-handed third baseman that comes to mind. However, he throws righty, so he doesn't really count. Lefty throwing and third base don't go well... makes it much more difficult to throw to second or first.

Deuce

PS: I ran the spell check on this post and the site suggested I change "Blalock" to "Ballcock." Just had to mention that. :redneck