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View Full Version : Ozzie Misusing Shingo


White Sox Josh
05-29-2005, 05:01 PM
The reason he had a bad outing today was because he is getting no work except for when they are down by a lot. Take out this game and he has pitched well lately but Ozzie refuses to use him. Ozzie needs to use him more for him to be effective. He has pitched well lately besides this outing which the whole pitching staff really stunk in this outing.

Frater Perdurabo
05-29-2005, 05:21 PM
The reason he had a bad outing is because he had to pitch. I have a sagging feeling Shingo's best days may be behind him and that he was a "one year wonder." I really hope I'm wrong, though.

Jurr
05-29-2005, 05:24 PM
The reason he had a bad outing is because he had to pitch. I have a sagging feeling Shingo's best days may be behind him and that he was a "one year wonder." I really hope I'm wrong, though.
Beltin' Bill is all over Shingo. He says that a guy like Shingo has been pitching forever, and you'd think he'd be able to make adjustments. He hasn't been making them. Melton went on to say that he's not sure KW can keep a roster spot for him that long.

BeviBall!
05-29-2005, 05:30 PM
It's been three days since KW stormed out of the broadcast booth in ANA. I think we'll be seeing a few moves this week. It's Timo to make a deal!

Fake Chet Lemon
05-29-2005, 05:47 PM
The reason he had a bad outing today was because he is getting no work except for when they are down by a lot. Take out this game and he has pitched well lately but Ozzie refuses to use him. Ozzie needs to use him more for him to be effective. He has pitched well lately besides this outing which the whole pitching staff really stunk in this outing.

You gotta be kidding? Even outings Shingo has gotten out of, he has usually had a couple outs that were hit to the base of the outfield wall. I'm not giving up on Shingo yet, but no way can you blame Ozzie for his troubles.

JRIG
05-29-2005, 05:48 PM
Beltin' Bill is all over Shingo. He says that a guy like Shingo has been pitching forever, and you'd think he'd be able to make adjustments. He hasn't been making them. Melton went on to say that he's not sure KW can keep a roster spot for him that long.

You can't trust him in any situation right now because of penchant for giving up the long ball.

Dumping Perez and Shingo may not be the solution, but it would take care of two problems.

ShoelessJoeS
05-29-2005, 05:52 PM
You can't trust him in any situation right now because of penchant for giving up the long ball.

Dumping Perez and Shingo may not be the solution, but it would take care of two problems.

i agree, shingo has had the opportunity to prove himself in pressure and non-pressure situations and has not been able to get the job done

Jurr
05-29-2005, 06:04 PM
You can't trust him in any situation right now because of penchant for giving up the long ball.

Dumping Perez and Shingo may not be the solution, but it would take care of two problems.
Yeah...we've got a kid in AA that has a 97 mph heater and a good curve that could get a look in the 'pen. What's his name? Jenks, I think.

We've only gone down to AA for a pitcher a couple of times in recent memory. Arnie Munoz and Mark Buehrle. 1 out of 2 ain't bad. Maybe we should give him a look while Shingo gets his head right.

Daver
05-29-2005, 06:09 PM
How exactly can you misuse a pitcher that tosses waist high meatballs whenever he gets the ball across the plate?

ShoelessJoeS
05-29-2005, 06:12 PM
How exactly can you misuse a pitcher that tosses waist high meatballs whenever he gets the ball across the plate?

i think crede might even be able to hit shingo

RKMeibalane
05-29-2005, 06:15 PM
i think crede might even be able to hit shingo

No. No, he can't.

White Sox Josh
05-29-2005, 06:27 PM
WHat i'm trying to say is that I think he and Vizcaino need more consistent work. That might be one of the reason why they are struggling right now. Both those pitchers need a lot of work inorder to pitch well or at least that is the pattern that has been going on this season.

Jurr
05-29-2005, 06:31 PM
WHat i'm trying to say is that I think he and Vizcaino need more consistent work. That might be one of the reason why they are struggling right now. Both those pitchers need a lot of work inorder to pitch well or at least that is the pattern that has been going on this season.
Well, there's a couple of problems with that logic:

1.) If Ozzie took out McCarthy against the Cubs and Vizzy shut them down, he'd be a genius. Instead, he was second guessed all over the place. The microscope is starting to focus on Ozzie now that the team is winning. He can't put in guys that are struggling mightily in close games.

2.) The starters are pitching late into games, which is making it tough to get anyone in the 'pen quality innings. When the starters do hand it over to the pen, the game is usually close, which leads you right back to part 1.

If Vizcaino and Shingo want some innings, they have to pitch well in the mop up opportunities they get, or they don't deserve to see the field.

ShoelessJoeS
05-29-2005, 06:33 PM
Well, there's a couple of problems with that logic:

1.) If Ozzie took out McCarthy against the Cubs and Vizzy shut them down, he'd be a genius. Instead, he was second guessed all over the place. The microscope is starting to focus on Ozzie now that the team is winning. He can't put in guys that are struggling mightily in close games.

2.) The starters are pitching late into games, which is making it tough to get anyone in the 'pen quality innings. When the starters do hand it over to the pen, the game is usually close, which leads you right back to part 1.

If Vizcaino and Shingo want some innings, they have to pitch well in the mop up opportunities they get, or they don't deserve to see the field.

exactly.

TornLabrum
05-29-2005, 07:43 PM
How exactly can you misuse a pitcher that tosses waist high meatballs whenever he gets the ball across the plate?

By putting him in any game.

JB98
05-29-2005, 07:53 PM
WHat i'm trying to say is that I think he and Vizcaino need more consistent work. That might be one of the reason why they are struggling right now. Both those pitchers need a lot of work inorder to pitch well or at least that is the pattern that has been going on this season.

It's a Catch-22. I agree that Takatsu and Vizcaino could both use more work, but as long as starters are going deep into games, we don't have much use for them. Middle relief often suffers on teams with strong starting pitching.

Ultimately, though, Shingo and Viz are responsible for staying ready, and they have to start pitching better even when they appear only in sporadic, mop-up duty. That's what being a professional is all about. I'm not sure what the deal is with Shingo, but I'm not going to overreact to his poor outing today. Hell, Garland's been great all year, and even he got his ass whipped today. We ran into a buzzsaw this weekend. Texas is very hot with that bats. They hit 'em soft, they fall in. They hit 'em hard, they go out of the park. What can you do?

Ol' No. 2
05-29-2005, 07:58 PM
WHat i'm trying to say is that I think he and Vizcaino need more consistent work. That might be one of the reason why they are struggling right now. Both those pitchers need a lot of work inorder to pitch well or at least that is the pattern that has been going on this season.Vizcaino HAS been getting consistent work. He's pitched nine times in the month of May:

10.1 IP 12 H 5 BB 6 ER

He pitched 10 times in April with pretty much the same result. Takatsu has had plenty of work, too. The last time he got out of an inning without a hit or walking someone was May 3. 10 hits and 6 BB in 7.2 IP during May.

Neither of these guys can use lack of work as an excuse. Everybody's favorite whipping boy Neal Cotts has been better than both these guys with less work.

There's a roster spot available to bring Frank Thomas up, but when Hernandez is ready to come back, I would drop a reliever, and Vizcaino would be tops on my list.

mealfred13
05-29-2005, 09:23 PM
By putting him in any game.

HAHAH...Ozzie sucks obviously.

As others have said, if Shingo is gonna pull a Koch in mop-up duty, when is Ozzie supposed to use him then?

MRKARNO
05-29-2005, 09:26 PM
As others have said, if Shingo is gonna pull a Koch in mop-up duty, when is Ozzie supposed to use him then?

He's not. Kenny is suposed to move him so that Ozzie doesnt have to use him.

White Sox Josh
05-29-2005, 09:26 PM
It's a Catch-22. I agree that Takatsu and Vizcaino could both use more work, but as long as starters are going deep into games, we don't have much use for them. Middle relief often suffers on teams with strong starting pitching.

Ultimately, though, Shingo and Viz are responsible for staying ready, and they have to start pitching better even when they appear only in sporadic, mop-up duty. That's what being a professional is all about. I'm not sure what the deal is with Shingo, but I'm not going to overreact to his poor outing today. Hell, Garland's been great all year, and even he got his ass whipped today. We ran into a buzzsaw this weekend. Texas is very hot with that bats. They hit 'em soft, they fall in. They hit 'em hard, they go out of the park. What can you do?Well against the Texas Rangers Lineup a lot of pitchers look like shingo and Garland did today. This is the best lineup in the AL. I'm not worried about Shingo because before this game he seemed to be getting it together. Also Vizcaino did a nice job of pitching out of a tough situation on Friday.

rowand33
05-29-2005, 09:37 PM
prior to today,

Shingo had a 2.84 ERA if you take away the Indians game.

and a 1.35 ERA in May.

However, his WHIP was still 1.65 despite opponents hitting .235 against him. He's walking people, but he's getting out of it, and the Ks are there.

I don't think Shingo is a lost cause yet. His head is messed up right now. I think the walks would go down as soon as he stops being scared to get hit.

Vizcaino is a lost cause. from post allstar break last year to now, his numbers are:
4-4 1 sv 5.56 ERA

get Leaky Luis the hell outta here.

White Sox Josh
05-29-2005, 10:16 PM
prior to today,

Shingo had a 2.84 ERA if you take away the Indians game.

and a 1.35 ERA in May.

However, his WHIP was still 1.65 despite opponents hitting .235 against him. He's walking people, but he's getting out of it, and the Ks are there.

I don't think Shingo is a lost cause yet. His head is messed up right now. I think the walks would go down as soon as he stops being scared to get hit.

Vizcaino is a lost cause. from post allstar break last year to now, his numbers are:
4-4 1 sv 5.56 ERA

get Leaky Luis the hell outta here.I could see Bajenaru or Jenks getting a call up if Vizcaino keeps on struggling.

Lip Man 1
05-29-2005, 10:24 PM
Newspaper stories today mentioned that Williams had been talking about Jenks (?).

As far as Shingo and Luis, it's a catch 22 situation. Yes they need consistent work but are you willing to risk losing the game so they can get it?

Perhaps a stint in Charlotte would give them a chance to pitch regularly without risking anything of importance.

Lip

Ol' No. 2
05-29-2005, 10:30 PM
Newspaper stories today mentioned that Williams had been talking about Jenks (?).

As far as Shingo and Luis, it's a catch 22 situation. Yes they need consistent work but are you willing to risk losing the game so they can get it?

Perhaps a stint in Charlotte would give them a chance to pitch regularly without risking anything of importance.

LipVizcaino has the most IP of anyone in the bullpen. I don't think lack of work is his problem.

Lip Man 1
05-29-2005, 10:31 PM
No. 2:

CONSISTENT work...not once every five days.

Lip

Ol' No. 2
05-29-2005, 10:34 PM
No. 2:

CONSISTENT work...not once every five days.

LipThey've played 50 games. He's pitched in 19 of them. He's second only to Marte in appearances. Look at the game log.

White Sox Josh
05-29-2005, 10:34 PM
Newspaper stories today mentioned that Williams had been talking about Jenks (?).

As far as Shingo and Luis, it's a catch 22 situation. Yes they need consistent work but are you willing to risk losing the game so they can get it?

Perhaps a stint in Charlotte would give them a chance to pitch regularly without risking anything of importance.

LipI think this outing was sort of a fluke for Shingo. He had been pitching well before this outing. Vizcaino I'm worried about. He scares me whenever he is in.

MaggPipes
05-30-2005, 09:16 AM
I don't think Shingo should be pitching to lefties. They seem to smoke him in real life, and on my MVP Baseball 2005. Coinsidence I think not...

seanpmurphy
05-30-2005, 10:05 AM
Vizcaino has the most IP of anyone in the bullpen. I don't think lack of work is his problem.

And the most ER. Also, "take away this game" junk is dumb. If you could really do that, we could take away EVERYTHING and be undefeated.

Ol' No. 2
05-30-2005, 11:05 PM
And the most ER. Also, "take away this game" junk is dumb. If you could really do that, we could take away EVERYTHING and be undefeated.You could argue that he took one for the team in that April 7 game and it's not really fair to count it against him. But even if you do, his numbers don't improve significantly. He and Shingo are the only guys with ERA's above 4, and they're WAY above 4. Both of these guys are rapidly working themselves into garbage time pitchers.

PatK
05-31-2005, 11:32 AM
I don't think Shingo should be pitching to lefties. They seem to smoke him in real life, and on my MVP Baseball 2005. Coinsidence I think not...

I agree. Look at the times he's come in and gotten hammered (Cleveland, Texas) and it's been against lefty laden lineups.

He just CANNOT get lefties out most of the time.