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View Full Version : Lineup shakeup in order?


buehrle4cy05
05-28-2005, 11:30 PM
As of 5/28, Tadahito Iguchi is the only .300 hitter in the regular day starting linuep (Widger is a reserve). Do we move Iguchi from the 2 hole to maybe three to try and get him to drive in more runs?

Also, why is Carl Everett still hitting left-handed? He admits that he just doesn't feel right hitting from the left side...he's batting over .300 from the right side, how about trying to hit exclusively from the right? Jose Valentin did the same thing, only he went from switch to only left.

Chicago83
05-28-2005, 11:47 PM
I like putting Iguchi in the 3 hole, that is what he batted in Japan and right now he's the only hitter on our team that belongs there. As far as Everett I am not sure him batting only lefty would help, I think he is just struggling against right handed pitching and doing well against lefties like much of our team. Havng him face righties right handed may just makes things worse. You say Jose did the same thing and did it help him?? He may have hit a career high in homers last year but his BA wasn't pretty.

Cubbiesuck13
05-29-2005, 12:14 AM
I think Iguchi is hitting as well as he is because he is in the 2 slot. He and Pods are a perfect 1 and 2. It's hard to know when Pods is going to steal but Iguchi seems to pick up on it perfect. He has to be getting good pitches to hit when you have a guy on 2nd and no outs. Even if the guy in the number 3 slot is struggling, the pitcher does not want to put the Gooch on for him.

Big Frank is as pure a number 3 hitter as you get and I think we will see Iguchi's stats improve when he has the Hurt hitting behind him. There is such a big difference in this lineup when he is in it that I doubt there will be many more threads about the 3 hole.

gobears1987
05-29-2005, 12:45 AM
Gooch stays at 2. If you asked me a few weeks ago I'd say sure, but with Frank coming back I think we have a better option and more natural #3 hitter.

MRKARNO
05-29-2005, 12:55 AM
Podsednik, Iguchi and Thomas as the first three in the lineup will be all the shaking up that this lineup needs.

WhiteSoxFan84
05-29-2005, 02:22 AM
i said this in another thread...


1) Podsednik - LF
2) Thomas - DH
3) Iguchi - 2B
4) Konerko - 1B
5) Pierzynski - C
6) Rowand - CF
7) Perez - RF
8) Crede - 3B
9) Ozuna - SS


i hope ozzie uses this lineup on monday and if it works, keep using it.

SluggersAway
05-29-2005, 02:28 AM
Iguchi should stay at #2, but yes Carl should be hitting more from the right side.

Hey, 1/2 right ain't all that bad!

Alanzo XXXVIII
05-29-2005, 03:12 AM
Everything changes on Monday.

Cubbiesuck13
05-29-2005, 03:27 AM
i said this in another thread...


1) Podsednik - LF
2) Thomas - DH
3) Iguchi - 2B
4) Konerko - 1B
5) Pierzynski - C
6) Rowand - CF
7) Perez - RF
8) Crede - 3B
9) Ozuna - SS


i hope ozzie uses this lineup on monday and if it works, keep using it.

What's the upside of Thomas batting 2nd?

Nellie_Fox
05-29-2005, 03:51 AM
i said this in another thread...


1) Podsednik - LF
2) Thomas - DH
3) Iguchi - 2B
4) Konerko - 1B
5) Pierzynski - C
6) Rowand - CF
7) Perez - RF
8) Crede - 3B
9) Ozuna - SS


i hope ozzie uses this lineup on monday and if it works, keep using it.First of all, "I" is capitalized.

Second, a number two hitter is not a power hitter. Nellie was a prototypical #2. It's not about OBP, it's about putting the ball in play to advance your leadoff man. Putting Frank in the two hole would be just nuts.

D. TODD
05-29-2005, 04:09 AM
Iguchi is taylor made for the two spot. He bunts well, goes the opposite way well, has speed, and can take pitches to bat behind in the count giving Pods a chance to steal. The Big Hurt would be terrible in the two spot. No speed, and he is a power hitter! I believe Frank will be eased into the lineup, not an everyday player at this point in his rehab. Hopefully he will be full speed soon, and when that happens he is your number 3 hitter.

Carl has always been a better left hand hitter. I know he is struggling from the left side, and has a hand issue, but he is not going to stop hitting from his traditionally strong side.

voodoochile
05-29-2005, 10:41 AM
First of all, "I" is capitalized.

Second, a number two hitter is not a power hitter. Nellie was a prototypical #2. It's not about OBP, it's about putting the ball in play to advance your leadoff man. Putting Frank in the two hole would be just nuts.

Yeah, and pods would only clog the bases for Frank's blinding speed. :D:

Leave the top two slots alone. There is NO point in changing them.

Expect to see a lineup something similar to what it has been these past few days with Frank taking over for Carl as the DH.

RKMeibalane
05-29-2005, 10:45 AM
What's the upside of Thomas batting 2nd?

The only thing I can think of is that he'll get more plate appearances. Beyond that, there is no upside. For a power hitter like Thomas, it's important to have as many people on base as possible before he comes to bat, yet still have protection behind him. That makes the three-slot ideal for him.

RKMeibalane
05-29-2005, 10:48 AM
First of all, "I" is capitalized.

I'm glad somebody is pointing these things out. It really bothers me that people use sloppy grammar and writing style on a message board. Writing is a skill, and like other skills, it can be maintained only through constant practice. I have a younger sister who's sixteen, and I cringe everytime I catch a glimpse of her AIM conversations. They're brutal to look at and piece together, because everything is written in internet shorthand.

johnny_mostil
05-29-2005, 10:50 AM
First of all, "I" is capitalized.

Second, a number two hitter is not a power hitter. Nellie was a prototypical #2. It's not about OBP, it's about putting the ball in play to advance your leadoff man. Putting Frank in the two hole would be just nuts.

Nonsense. It's about OBP and advancing the leadoff man. The #2 hitters' job in modern baseball is to get on base, period. For the first time in forever we have #1 and #2 hitters doing their job and people start whining. When the problem is the 3-4-5 hitters not doing their job consistently, you don't force the Peter Principle on the lineup.

Further, you leave Uribe in the lineup. He just does this slump thing. He'll get over it and go on a tear.

I still want Mackowiak to back up Crede and Dye.

RKMeibalane
05-29-2005, 10:50 AM
i said this in another thread...


1) Podsednik - LF
2) Thomas - DH
3) Iguchi - 2B
4) Konerko - 1B
5) Pierzynski - C
6) Rowand - CF
7) Perez - RF
8) Crede - 3B
9) Ozuna - SS


i hope ozzie uses this lineup on monday and if it works, keep using it.

I disagree. This lineup makes more sense:

LF- Podsednik
2B- Iguchi
DH- Thomas
1B- Konerko
RF- Dye/Everett
C- Pierzynski
CF- Rowand
3B- Crede
SS- Uribe

Clembasbal
05-29-2005, 10:52 AM
As of 5/28, Tadahito Iguchi is the only .300 hitter in the regular day starting linuep (Widger is a reserve). Do we move Iguchi from the 2 hole to maybe three to try and get him to drive in more runs?

Also, why is Carl Everett still hitting left-handed? He admits that he just doesn't feel right hitting from the left side...he's batting over .300 from the right side, how about trying to hit exclusively from the right? Jose Valentin did the same thing, only he went from switch to only left.

IMO...you get rid of Harris and Perez, and Everett. Call Up Jaime Burke and put him at 3B/C and have Widger DH...until Frank is really ready.

But The Big Hurt will be back soon, so oh well.

But I like the idea of Iguchi at #3, but Frank takes that spot too, when he comes back. So we better keep him at #2, because that is where is will always be,

chaerulez
05-29-2005, 11:08 AM
i said this in another thread...


1) Podsednik - LF
2) Thomas - DH
3) Iguchi - 2B
4) Konerko - 1B
5) Pierzynski - C
6) Rowand - CF
7) Perez - RF
8) Crede - 3B
9) Ozuna - SS


i hope ozzie uses this lineup on monday and if it works, keep using it.

You want Ozuna over Uribe at SS? Uribe has a lot more power and better defense, there is no reason at all to demote him.

Edit: I didn't even notice the Perez at RF. C'mon now, Perez as an everyday player makes as much sense as the Cubs trying to use Hollandsworth as a starter. If you want to replace Dye, doing it with Perez is not a solution.

RKMeibalane
05-29-2005, 11:12 AM
You want Ozuna over Uribe at SS? Uribe has a lot more power and better defense, there is no reason at all to demote him.

Edit: I didn't even notice the Perez at RF. C'mon now, Perez as an everyday player makes as much sense as the Cubs trying to use Hollandsworth as a starter. If you want to replace Dye, doing it with Perez is not a solution.

I've been trying to figure that lineup out, and I can't. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

gobears1987
05-29-2005, 11:19 AM
I disagree. This lineup makes more sense:

LF- Podsednik
2B- Iguchi
DH- Thomas
1B- Konerko
RF- Dye/Everett
C- Pierzynski
CF- Rowand
3B- Crede
SS- Uribe
Swap Rowand with your RFs and you have a good line-up. You may want to bench Crede and Uribe on alternate days and put Ozuna in their spot. If and when Uribe and Crede bust out of their slumps, then you stop the platoon and return Ozuna to the bench. SOme may argue that Uribe and Crede just need plate appearance to bust out, but they've been getting them and they continue to be a whole in the lineup.

WhiteSoxFan84
05-29-2005, 11:41 AM
You want Ozuna over Uribe at SS? Uribe has a lot more power and better defense, there is no reason at all to demote him.

Edit: I didn't even notice the Perez at RF. C'mon now, Perez as an everyday player makes as much sense as the Cubs trying to use Hollandsworth as a starter. If you want to replace Dye, doing it with Perez is not a solution.

I've been trying to figure that lineup out, and I can't. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.


Guys, notice I said; "I hope Ozzie uses this lineup on Monday and if it works, keep using it."

Not an everyday thing. But if it works, hey, keep using it until it fails. And by "if it works", I mean at least 5 runs scored.

RKMeibalane
05-29-2005, 11:53 AM
Guys, notice I said; "I hope Ozzie uses this lineup on Monday and if it works, keep using it."

Not an everyday thing. But if it works, hey, keep using it until it fails. And by "if it works", I mean at least 5 runs scored.

The Twins are only 3.5 games back of the Sox right now, with today's games yet to be played. Now is not the time for Ozzie or anyone else to be experimenting with strange lineups. Jerry Manuel cost the Sox the division two seasons ago because he made this mistake several times over. The Sox have been winning with the lineup they have. Frank's return changes things somewhat, but there's no reason to make more changes by moving people all over the lineup.

jabrch
05-29-2005, 12:00 PM
Please don't tinker with the lineup and do something stupid.

Iguchi is a great #2 hitter. Leave him there.

Pods
Iguchi
DH
PK
C/RF/CF
3B/SS

I don't care how you sort the bottom 5. I guess you try not to have Ls and Rs bunched if you can avoid it.

I don't think the problem is with how the lineup is ordered. The guys just are not hitting.

WhiteSoxFan84
05-29-2005, 12:05 PM
The Twins are only 3.5 games back of the Sox right now, with today's games yet to be played. Now is not the time for Ozzie or anyone else to be experimenting with strange lineups. Jerry Manuel cost the Sox the division two seasons ago because he made this mistake several times over. The Sox have been winning with the lineup they have. Frank's return changes things somewhat, but there's no reason to make more changes by moving people all over the lineup.

I'll take your word for it because the stats sure don't say that.

Last 6 games combined the Sox have scored 13 runs and sport a 2-4 record.

Hopefully it's just a slump and they all get out of it but it's scary to see them go through something like this. What's even scarier is that against some of the top pitchers in the game, these guys can't do ANYTHING. Remember the Saturday game vs. the Cubs? If Zambrano had stayed in that whole game, chances are, we get shut out. Prior shut us down the next day, although I think we should've won that game.

tstrike2000
05-29-2005, 12:10 PM
I disagree. This lineup makes more sense:

LF- Podsednik
2B- Iguchi
DH- Thomas
1B- Konerko
RF- Dye/Everett
C- Pierzynski
CF- Rowand
3B- Crede
SS- Uribe

Without question that is about the best lineup. The other possibilities are switching Dye/Everett and Rowand or flip flopping Crede and Uribe if one of them gets hot.

RKMeibalane
05-29-2005, 12:10 PM
I'll take your word for it because the stats sure don't say that.

Last 6 games combined the Sox have scored 13 runs and sport a 2-4 record.

Hopefully it's just a slump and they all get out of it but it's scary to see them go through something like this. What's even scarier is that against some of the top pitchers in the game, these guys can't do ANYTHING. Remember the Saturday game vs. the Cubs? If Zambrano had stayed in that whole game, chances are, we get shut out. Prior shut us down the next day, although I think we should've won that game.

I don't recall the baseball season being shortened to six games. The Sox have hit a bump in the road, but their record suggests that they'll right the ship eventually. It's important that Ozzie shows confidence in this group by not altering the lineup. There are players who are slumping, but some of them figure to get better pitches to hit with Frank around. Furthermore, why would you move Iguchi from the number-two spot in the order. He has been the Sox most consistent hitter this season. There is nothing that justifies messing that up.

There is a time for adjustments, and there is a time to let the players play. Manuel never could understand that, but Ozzie appears to. If the Sox continue to struggle with Frank in the lineup, then changes need to be made. Until then, the lineup they have will do fine.

ExpoPuddingHead
05-29-2005, 12:18 PM
I disagree with all of you guys. The number three hitter is supposed to be a high average medium power type of guy. I like Rowand in that spot. Thomas is a perfect number 4 hitter with a lower average but much more power than rowand. Konerko should be right behind Thomas and should be helped by his presence in the lineup. I don't know how to spell piersynski but he should be next until or if Dye breaks out of his slump. I support Dye over everett because even though he has been slumping he is still doing better with the bat than everett and is a much better fielder. Crede is our number 8 hitter and Uribe should be our number 9 with his decent speed. If Pods and Harris are both playing Ozzie should put harris in the number nine spot.

RKMeibalane
05-29-2005, 12:23 PM
I disagree with all of you guys. The number three hitter is supposed to be a high average medium power type of guy. I like Rowand in that spot. Thomas is a perfect number 4 hitter with a lower average but much more power than rowand. Konerko should be right behind Thomas and should be helped by his presence in the lineup. I don't know how to spell piersynski but he should be next until or if Dye breaks out of his slump. I support Dye over everett because even though he has been slumping he is still doing better with the bat than everett and is a much better fielder. Crede is our number 8 hitter and Uribe should be our number 9 with his decent speed. If Pods and Harris are both playing Ozzie should put harris in the number nine spot.

The problem is that Rowand is not as selective at the plate as Frank is. Most number-three hitters have the ability to work the count and read the strike zone as the pitcher comes after them. Rowand has improved dramatically over the past two seasons, but he's not a three-spot hitter.

Jurr
05-29-2005, 12:31 PM
Yeah..I don't like the idea of cutting Dye's AB's in half with the constant presence of Everett.

What do you do, though? Do you play games where Dye plays CF and Everett plays RF to get Rowand some rest?

This all leads me to believe that Timo is going to be dealt or sent down, because there REALLY won't be any room for him in the OF.

ExpoPuddingHead
05-29-2005, 12:35 PM
I have to repeat myself again but so far this year while Dye has been a terrible hitter, Everett has been even worse. They have around the same BA but Dye has much better power numbers and is a much better fielder than Everett. Everett probably could be traded when Thomas returns but timo is even worse so i think he should get sent down to the minors.

RKMeibalane
05-29-2005, 12:37 PM
I have to repeat myself again but so far this year while Dye has been a terrible hitter, Everett has been even worse. They have around the same BA but Dye has much better power numbers and is a much better fielder than Everett. Everett probably could be traded when Thomas returns but timo is even worse so i think he should get sent down to the minors.

You have to repeat yourself, or you hate to repeat yourself?

Jurr
05-29-2005, 12:42 PM
I have to repeat myself again but so far this year while Dye has been a terrible hitter, Everett has been even worse. They have around the same BA but Dye has much better power numbers and is a much better fielder than Everett. Everett probably could be traded when Thomas returns but timo is even worse so i think he should get sent down to the minors.
Well, you have to remember this concept called INJURY. As much as we love Frank and what he does, he could just as easily slide into second and start this whole thing over again. Dye isn't the most injury-free cat on the block, either. We have to keep Crazy Carl around to pad ourselves in case of injury. Period.

I would love to see Timo retained in AAA, but he wouldn't clear waivers. If an injury occurs (fingers crossed), we'll probably be seeing Willie and Gload in the OF.

FarWestChicago
05-29-2005, 12:51 PM
The number three hitter is supposed to be a high average medium power type of guy. I like Rowand in that spot.Crash hasn't been a high average hitter this year. I hope he can get it back, but it's not last year so far.

Jurr
05-29-2005, 12:57 PM
Crash hasn't been a high average hitter this year. I hope he can get it back, but it's not last year so far.
To his defense, he has been thrown all around the order like a damn rag doll. It's hard to get into any sort of rhythm that way.
His best production this year has been out of the three hole, but I don't see him there anymore this year. And do you know why?????????????

:hurt I do! I do!


:liefer Noooo!! Let me pick! I think I know the answer, too!

:hawk I looooove Jeff Leifer!!

tstrike2000
05-29-2005, 01:17 PM
I disagree with all of you guys. The number three hitter is supposed to be a high average medium power type of guy. I like Rowand in that spot. Thomas is a perfect number 4 hitter with a lower average but much more power than rowand. Konerko should be right behind Thomas and should be helped by his presence in the lineup. I don't know how to spell piersynski but he should be next until or if Dye breaks out of his slump. I support Dye over everett because even though he has been slumping he is still doing better with the bat than everett and is a much better fielder. Crede is our number 8 hitter and Uribe should be our number 9 with his decent speed. If Pods and Harris are both playing Ozzie should put harris in the number nine spot.

Unless Rowand can take walks but still hit for average and power then maybe a number 3 hitter he could be be. However, Frank has defined that role for 13 years, plus Hurt could also bat for a higher average than Rowand.

jabrch
05-29-2005, 01:18 PM
If he isn't hitting 1 or 2, what's the real difference to Rowand if he hits 3-7? Your job is still the same in any of those spots.

I don't buy it that he is slumping cuz he is moving around. I think he is slumping because he is in a slump. (DUH!)

Others will argue that he will have a hard time repeating last year's numbers - ever. And others will say his sudden explosion to being a HR hitter last year came from out of the blue and might be...suspect.

In any case, he doesn't have to worry about hitting 1, 2, 3 or 4 the rest of the year. So if he hits 5, 6 or 7, it really should be no difference, and not an excuse.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-29-2005, 01:27 PM
....
In any case, he doesn't have to worry about hitting 1, 2, 3 or 4 the rest of the year. So if he hits 5, 6 or 7, it really should be no difference, and not an excuse.

The key is Frank. If he delivers enough quality at-bats at #3 to make Rowand into our new #5 or #6 hitter, then the entire offense is given a boost. The biggest benefactors will be Konerko and Dye, sitting on their lazy asses waiting for the fastballs they alone could never generate because of their own brown bats. Pitchers aren't stupid.

The only part of our line up that is really clicking these days is Posednik/Iguchi at the top of the order. If Frank can revitalize the heart of the order, then everyone down the line up gets better balls to hit, Rowand playing the key supporting role.

Who knows. Maybe even Crede and Uribe will come around.
:cool:

batmanZoSo
05-29-2005, 01:57 PM
I disagree. This lineup makes more sense:

LF- Podsednik
2B- Iguchi
DH- Thomas
1B- Konerko
RF- Dye/Everett
C- Pierzynski
CF- Rowand
3B- Crede
SS- Uribe

That's it right there. End of discussion in my book.

Although this wouldn't be bad either:

Podsednik
Iguchi
Thomas
Chavez
Konerko
Dye/Everett
Pierzynski
Rowand
Uribe