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View Full Version : Thomas ready? I don't believe it


A. Cavatica
05-26-2005, 11:38 PM
Despite Thomas' assertion that he's almost ready, he's not hitting. He was at .207 before tonight's game, and added an 0-for-4 (even though the rest of the Knights put 11 runs on the board): he's now at .181.

I think he should sit tight for a few more games.

FarWestChicago
05-26-2005, 11:49 PM
Despite Thomas' assertion that he's almost ready, he's not hitting. He was at .207 before tonight's game, and added an 0-for-4 (even though the rest of the Knights put 11 runs on the board): he's now at .181.

I think he should sit tight for a few more games.I certainly put a great deal more faith in your assessment of Frank's condition than his.

A. Cavatica
05-26-2005, 11:56 PM
Well, he can be healthy without being ready to face major league pitching. He's only had 30-some at bats, and another 30 couldn't hurt.

RedPinStripes
05-27-2005, 12:26 AM
Anyone ever think that Frank sees nothing but garbage since everyone else around him is a AAA player? I'm sure Frank is not being as selective in the minors tryint o get back to form. The average don't bother me much because i don't have to see the game to know that some 20 year old prospect don't want to throw a strike and have it go 500 ft when he knows someone at his level is up next.

A. Cavatica
05-27-2005, 12:41 AM
I'd think it would be the opposite. Pitchers want to get him out. Even if they never get their cup of coffee, they can tell their kids how they struck out Frank Thomas one night in May 2005. And the guys hitting after him (Anderson, Gload) aren't your garden variety AAA hitters either.

RedPinStripes
05-27-2005, 12:48 AM
I'd think it would be the opposite. Pitchers want to get him out. Even if they never get their cup of coffee, they can tell their kids how they struck out Frank Thomas one night in May 2005. And the guys hitting after him (Anderson, Gload) aren't your garden variety AAA hitters either.

They know he's up there to get his swing back. If i was a pitcher trying to make a name for myself, i'd avoid throwing to thomas. They're getting him out and I'll bet it's not because he's getting caught looking.

ClaudelSleptHere
05-27-2005, 12:57 AM
They're playing Indianapolis now and the local announcers here seemed more concerned about his lumbering on the basepaths than his swing. Of course, they want him to stay another week at least, because they play in Indy next week.

I_Liked_Manuel
05-27-2005, 01:08 AM
i hate to be cynical, but i'm sure frank's seeing a team that's doing very well right now without him. frank's desire to get back to chicago has nothing to do with him 'being ready'

A. Cavatica
05-27-2005, 01:09 AM
They know he's up there to get his swing back. If i was a pitcher trying to make a name for myself, i'd avoid throwing to thomas. They're getting him out and I'll bet it's not because he's getting caught looking.

Well, if they can do it, wouldn't the big league pitchers he'd be facing immediately after his callup?

seanpmurphy
05-27-2005, 01:17 AM
Despite Thomas' assertion that he's almost ready, he's not hitting. He was at .207 before tonight's game, and added an 0-for-4 (even though the rest of the Knights put 11 runs on the board): he's now at .181.

I think he should sit tight for a few more games.

Gonna have to agree with WestChicago and others. Stats are only numbers, things to give us an IDEA of whats going on, but not tell us for a fact. McCarthy had a 4.00+ ERA at AAA and in his MLB debut looked equally as good as the golden boy Mark Prior. I want a 100% Frank, but I also think there's nothing to worry about just based on his rehab numbers.

balke
05-27-2005, 01:21 AM
Frank said about 60 At-bats and he'd be out of "Spring training" form. I trust him more than anyone else. I might agree he should stay down and work on his bat for like a week, but even if he bats 0-40 or something horrible like that, i'd not hesitate in bringing him up if he thinks he's ready. He can't be worse than the majority of our hitters at this point.

A. Cavatica
05-27-2005, 01:30 AM
Unless he has a big weekend, I think he should spend another 5-6 games in Charlotte.

That would mean he'd miss the Angels at home, but be back in time for the Tribe, which is a more important series. It would give him 3 games at DH before we go to Colorado. The Knights play on Thursday 6/2 but the Sox have an off day; they should probably bring him up then.

mealfred13
05-27-2005, 01:31 AM
Hell even if Frank isn't "ready" as far as his ability to hit ML pitching goes, how much worse can he do than almost anyone in the lineup hitting like Dye or Crede? His reputation alone will be enough to give the guys in front of him some good pitches to hit, and give him some walks. I say bring him on.

A. Cavatica
05-27-2005, 01:41 AM
If he comes up and goes 2-for-20, it does nobody any good. He'll start pressing, he'll sulk, and then he'll have to sit when we go to the NL parks.

I think he'll be up during the next homestand, it's just a question of whether he comes up in time for the Angels series.

balke
05-27-2005, 01:46 AM
If he comes up and goes 2-for-20, it does nobody any good. He'll start pressing, he'll sulk, and then he'll have to sit when we go to the NL parks.

I think he'll be up during the next homestand, it's just a question of whether he comes up in time for the Angels series.


It probably WOULD be best if he waited til after the NL series. One, we may struggle a bit soon, and he'd look better coming back. And of course, it saves us the roster spot for the duration of those series.

IowaSox1971
05-27-2005, 04:36 AM
Everett went 1-for-15 in the series against the Angels. True, that hit was a solo homer that contributed to one of our victories, but he also failed to come through in many opportunities with guys in scoring position. Obviously, Frank couldn't do much worse. Even if Frank goes something like 1-for-10, at least he will draw four or five walks and contribute to the team that way.

By the way, minor league stats can be deceiving. Triple-A pitchers often don't have very good control, and in some ways it can be tougher to hit against them. Just because he is struggling in Triple-A does not mean he will automatically struggle once he's back in the majors. Frank knows what most of the AL pitchers throw, and he probably will not have a big adjustment period.

We only scored eight runs in the four-game series against the Angels. We need more offense, and Frank should be able to help.

Bobbo35
05-27-2005, 07:23 AM
Hell even if Frank isn't "ready" as far as his ability to hit ML pitching goes, how much worse can he do than almost anyone in the lineup hitting like Dye or Crede? His reputation alone will be enough to give the guys in front of him some good pitches to hit, and give him some walks. I say bring him on.

Thats what I say too. Frank has been in the league long enough and has the most experience on this White Sox team. Bring his big ole body up and get this party started.

mccombe_35
05-27-2005, 08:39 AM
I don't think Frank (or the fans) should be concerned about hit AAA #s. He's seeing a lot of live pitching & getting his swings in for the 1st time in almost a year. The guy was born to hit. He'll be fine.



I did hear he hit a grand slam yesterday. Circled the bases & was in the dugout before the other team's manager argued until the umps overturned the call & said the ball was foul.

RKMeibalane
05-27-2005, 08:43 AM
I don't think Frank (or the fans) should be concerned about hit AAA #s. He's seeing a lot of live pitching & getting his swings in for the 1st time in almost a year. The guy was born to hit. He'll be fine.



I did hear he hit a grand slam yesterday. Circled the bases & was in the dugout before the other team's manager argued until the umps overturned the call & said the ball was foul.

Yes, he did. The Indians pitcher and catcher were both tossed for arguing, and then the umps changed the call.

steff
05-27-2005, 08:48 AM
Despite Thomas' assertion that he's almost ready, he's not hitting. He was at .207 before tonight's game, and added an 0-for-4 (even though the rest of the Knights put 11 runs on the board): he's now at .181.

I think he should sit tight for a few more games.


He hit a slam last night.. but whining and crying from the other team and their sissy fans and the umps reversed the call to a foul ball. He ran the bases just fine also.

gobears1987
05-27-2005, 09:42 AM
Yes, he did. The Indians pitcher and catcher were both tossed for arguing, and then the umps changed the call.
that sucks, BTW, you should put a Magglio Ordonez watch under your Frank Thomas watch so we can see that Frank is doing more than Maggs can

A. Cavatica
05-27-2005, 10:16 AM
He hit a slam last night.. but whining and crying from the other team and their sissy fans and the umps reversed the call to a foul ball. He ran the bases just fine also.

That's good news. I feel much better about Frank's trotting than his running.

mweflen
05-27-2005, 10:19 AM
Frank cannot come back soon enough. I am done watching Carl kill rallies. At least Frank can take a walk if he's not killing the ball. I have to think Frank at 50% is still better than "formerly hot" Carl.

Jaffar
05-27-2005, 10:27 AM
Frank knows what most of the AL pitchers throw, and he probably will not have a big adjustment period.

I was going to post this myself so I just wanted to back it up. Frank knows pitchers in the majors and what they throw and how they will try and get him because he has seen most of them.

1951Campbell
05-27-2005, 11:02 AM
I certainly put a great deal more faith in your assessment of Frank's condition than his.

Is self-evaluation always best? Nomar had some injuries in Boston that he didn't deem impoortant enough to tell anyone about, and it turned out they were a bigger deal than he thought.

SSN721
05-27-2005, 11:05 AM
I think a Frank 1-15 is much more valuable then a Carl Everett 1-15. I cant wait for Frank to come back, if he is comfortable on his ankle I bring him back ASAP regardless of his AAA numbers. He will be fine when he gets back to ML pitching. At the very least he still has the good eye and can take a lot of walks. If he looks good when Kenny sees him I want him back for the Angels series at home.

balke
05-27-2005, 12:05 PM
Is self-evaluation always best? Nomar had some injuries in Boston that he didn't deem impoortant enough to tell anyone about, and it turned out they were a bigger deal than he thought.

At the end of the season, Nomar was playing. And everyone knows what's wrong with Frank. He will always be injured in the foot, its just a matter if he can play without pain, and hit the ball. He's going to be slower, and maybe the injury will affect his swing but, he's not hiding anything.

Randar68
05-27-2005, 12:36 PM
Frank said about 60 At-bats and he'd be out of "Spring training" form. I trust him more than anyone else. I might agree he should stay down and work on his bat for like a week, but even if he bats 0-40 or something horrible like that, i'd not hesitate in bringing him up if he thinks he's ready. He can't be worse than the majority of our hitters at this point.

Monday is the VERY earliest he will return and that gives him a minimum of 3 more games or so in AAA. In addition, he's hit the ball hard, a couple games making the effort to go to RF every AB.

Do people freak out when a veteran comes into ST camp working on some things and doesn't hit great the first few weeks of ST? They know what they need to get done, when they are ready to go, what they need to work on and do it. Numbers don't mean a whole lot.

People are concerned about his lumbering, but frankly, as long as the ankle holds up, I doubt Konerko could beat him in a foot race even when Frank is hobbled.

RKMeibalane
05-27-2005, 12:45 PM
One thing I think people may be overlooking when thinking about Frank's Charlotte numbers:

Remember that Frank likes to work out in the batting cage between innings during home games, and he occasionally also looks at film. I don't think he has the chance to do that at Charlotte's ballpark. That might be another reason why his numbers aren't that good.

jenmcm76
05-27-2005, 02:32 PM
I personally hope Frank will be back before the much-anticipated June 6th game... 'cause I've got tix for June 4th! :smile:

DannyCaterFan
05-27-2005, 02:38 PM
This White Sox lineup, as it is now could sure use another big bat. Last night's game is a perfect example of how weak the batting order can be. I say, bring Frank up next week as long as he can run. His presence alone will help everyone else in the order.

balke
05-27-2005, 02:42 PM
My prediction is Frank would have 15 RBI in his first 2-3 weeks, as opposed to Rowand's total season avg. Someone needs to get these leadoff hitters in.

RedPinStripes
05-27-2005, 03:47 PM
People are concerned about his lumbering, but frankly, as long as the ankle holds up, I doubt Konerko could beat him in a foot race even when Frank is hobbled.

Yup. Not many people talk about it, but Frank is actually fast for a very big guy.

RKMeibalane
05-27-2005, 04:36 PM
Yup. Not many people talk about it, but Frank is actually fast for a very big guy.

That's true. It's often overlooked that he was a TE at Auburn.

TaylorStSox
05-27-2005, 04:48 PM
My prediction is Frank would have 15 RBI in his first 2-3 weeks, as opposed to Rowand's total season avg. Someone needs to get these leadoff hitters in.


That's a stretch IMO. I doubt we'll ever see the Frank of old. But, he can be an important part of this team.

RKMeibalane
05-27-2005, 04:49 PM
That's a stretch IMO. I doubt we'll ever see the Frank of old. But, he can be an important part of this team.

I don't think 5 RBIs per week is too much of a stretch. I do think that Frank's days of hitting .300 are over, but that doesn't mean he can't be the run-producer he has been throughout his career.

TaylorStSox
05-27-2005, 04:55 PM
I don't think 5 RBIs per week is too much of a stretch. I do think that Frank's days of hitting .300 are over, but that doesn't mean he can't be the run-producer he has been throughout his career.

5 RBI's a week translates into about 140 RBI's a year right? I el sucko at math. I doubt that. I've been wrong before though.

RKMeibalane
05-27-2005, 05:20 PM
5 RBI's a week translates into about 140 RBI's a year right? I el sucko at math. I doubt that. I've been wrong before though.

About 130 over a full season. Frank drove in 105 runs during his last full season. I think he probably could have had an additional 15 RBIs had the Sox offense not been sucking during April and May because of JM's tinkering. Frank had only around twenty runs batted in the first two months of that year.

TaylorStSox
05-27-2005, 05:24 PM
About 130 over a full season. Frank drove in 105 runs during his last full season. I think he probably could have had an additional 15 RBIs had the Sox offense not been sucking during April and May because of JM's tinkering. Frank had only around twenty runs batted in the first two months of that year.

I question whether a 37 year old coming off of a year long injury can produce those numbers. Frank's done some remarkable things in his career. I hope he repeats them.

RKMeibalane
05-27-2005, 05:41 PM
I question whether a 37 year old coming off of a year long injury can produce those numbers. Frank's done some remarkable things in his career. I hope he repeats them.

We'll see what happens. I don't think we can assume too much right now, but all indications are that Thomas is swinging the bat well, in spite of his low batting average. I just want to see what the Sox look like with their full starting lineup on the field. They have the best record in baseball, yet they haven't even been at full strength.

Infallible
05-27-2005, 05:42 PM
he's rushing it. we don't quite need him yet.

Chisox003
05-27-2005, 05:45 PM
he's rushing it. we don't quite need him yet.

Dont quite need him?!? Everett's hitting .230!!! Our pitching gave up 9 runs this ENTIRE Angels series and we settled for a 2-2 split!!

The sooner Big Frank (healthy, of course) comes, the better

RKMeibalane
05-27-2005, 05:46 PM
he's rushing it. we don't quite need him yet.

I don't know. I had thought he would wait until June 13 to come back, but given that the Sox haven't been able to score any runs, he probably feels that he can help the team enough that he's going to give it a shot. There's no way he could be any worse than Crede or Uribe right now.

Does anybody know what the record is for the lowest team batting average for a club that won the World Series? It will be interesting to see whether the Sox fall below that mark, and how it effects the remainder of the season.

maurice
05-27-2005, 06:16 PM
The problem is the upcoming inter-league schedule. He'd get a total of 6 ABs during the week of 6/6. It's better to let him get 4-5 ABs per day in Charlotte.

maurice
05-27-2005, 06:17 PM
Does anybody know what the record is for the lowest team batting average for a club that won the World Series? It will be interesting to see whether the Sox fall below that mark, and how it effects the remainder of the season.

There's no way that this Sox team could come anywhere close to the AVE of the "Hitless Wonders" Sox championship team.

NDSox12
05-27-2005, 06:22 PM
There's no way that this Sox team could come anywhere close to the AVE of the "Hitless Wonders" Sox championship team.

The "Hitless Wonders" (1906 White Sox) had a team batting average of .230 with 7 (yes, seven) home runs on the season. Times have changed for sure... :smile:

RKMeibalane
05-27-2005, 06:23 PM
The problem is the upcoming inter-league schedule. He'd get a total of 6 ABs during the week of 6/6. It's better to let him get 4-5 ABs per day in Charlotte.

That is a problem, but it's also possible that Sox management knows something that we don't about this entire situation. It's not out of the realm of possibilities that a trade may be in the works, even a trade involving Frank.

Infallible
05-27-2005, 06:23 PM
Dont quite need him?!? Everett's hitting .230!!! Our pitching gave up 9 runs this ENTIRE Angels series and we settled for a 2-2 split!!

The sooner Big Frank (healthy, of course) comes, the better

We only scored 8 runs this last series that is true.....But we are still winning. I'd rather have a for sure healthy Frank Thomas in a month or even two months from now when we need him most, than to rush him back, get reinjured and out for the rest of the season. We don't have win every single one right now. All we have to do is remain consistant. Finishing in first place in the AL is nice and all, but you still need to win in the post season.

NDSox12
05-27-2005, 06:24 PM
The problem is the upcoming inter-league schedule. He'd get a total of 6 ABs during the week of 6/6. It's better to let him get 4-5 ABs per day in Charlotte.

I don't know about you, but I'd rather have Frank available as a late inning pinch hitter than Timo Perez. I think they should bring him up when he is ready, regardless of who is on the schedule at that time.

RKMeibalane
05-27-2005, 06:26 PM
The "Hitless Wonders" (1906 White Sox) had a team batting average of .230 with 7 (yes, seven) home runs on the season. Times have changed for sure... :smile:

Yeah. This year's team has an average of .251 and fifty three home runs.

Frater Perdurabo
05-27-2005, 06:27 PM
I understand these two players are completely different, but Carlton Fisk had his best season (1985) at age 37. To say that Frank can't put up good numbers at age 37 - just because he's 37 - is ludicrous.

batmanZoSo
05-27-2005, 09:32 PM
I have no idea what Frank feels like. I have no idea how he's seeing the ball. I have no control over when and under what circumstances he'll return. Whatever happens, happens.

Deadguy
05-27-2005, 09:48 PM
We only scored 8 runs this last series that is true.....But we are still winning. I'd rather have a for sure healthy Frank Thomas in a month or even two months from now when we need him most, than to rush him back, get reinjured and out for the rest of the season.

The problem is that Frank has waited as long as possible before the pain in his ankle got to the point that he could take on an everyday basis. If you want him to wait until he is completely healthy, he may never play again.

I don't really see how he's at less of a risk getting injured playing in Charlotte than he is playing for the White Sox.

While I don't want to see him come up and go 2 and 20, the timing of his rehabilitation makes it difficult to keep him down in Charlotte for the full 20 days. The situation will either force him to come up for the next home series, be activated on the 6th and get 6 PAs in 6 games, or be shut down for a week, and then join the Sox on the 13th. Which of those situations, while none of them is ideal, will keep Thomas on track as far as getting him self to the highest level of production that he is still capable of?

FarWestChicago
05-27-2005, 10:06 PM
Is self-evaluation always best?Who knows, but I think the best non-'roid hitter of his generation may know a smidgen more about his contition than a guy on this board. Call me silly, but that's my opinion.

MRKARNO
05-27-2005, 10:07 PM
Bring him up tomorrow as far as I'm concerned. This offense has been a train wreck and even if he comes up and hits .230 with a .350 OBP over the first few weeks, it would be a lot better than what we've got going on now.

S-SideTrifecta
05-28-2005, 12:04 PM
I have a feeling he won't be brought up until after the Colorado/San Diego road trip.

Jurr
05-28-2005, 12:30 PM
Who knows, but I think the best non-'roid hitter of his generation may know a smidgen more about his contition than a guy on this board. Call me silly, but that's my opinion.
You are right, but one thing about it is athletes are notoriously quick with the "I'm fine" stuff. I've worked with athletes on all levels of football as a trainer in college, and they always like to come out of the gates just a little quicker than you'd like. That's why the MRI and all of the tests are so important.

However, if he keeps testing negative for any trauma or inflammation, and he says he's ready to go, let the man come in and get 'er done.