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View Full Version : If Thomas/Gload/McCarthy Stay...Who Goes?


TomBradley72
05-25-2005, 08:07 AM
Based on the Sun Times article this morning...and other recent reports....a very realistic scenario a few weeks from now could have Frank Thomas (DH), Ross Gload (1B only based on his shoulder) and Brandon McCarthy (Relief/Spot Starter) on the White Sox 25 man roster. Obviously Kevin Miller goes down...who are the other two Sox that will go to make room for these moves?

mikehuff
05-25-2005, 08:12 AM
Obviously Kevin Miller goes down...
Kevin Walker

TomBradley72
05-25-2005, 08:13 AM
That's what I get for posting on one cup of coffee.

Bobby Thigpen
05-25-2005, 08:14 AM
We still have Gload?

When the heck was the last time he played?

mikehuff
05-25-2005, 08:17 AM
We still have Gload?

When the heck was the last time he played?
Are you kidding? He had a shoulder injury and is rehabbing in the minors with Frank right now. He's played two games so far. I think he's due back about the same time as Frank.
I expect maybe Ozuna to go down. Maybe Timo would have to be moved. Can he be sent down? I can't think of two other guys especially if Ozzie is keeping McCarthy up here.
That would leave Gload and Everett to possibly back up the outfield and even Harris can do that. I wouldn't mind losing Timo.

Frater Perdurabo
05-25-2005, 08:20 AM
Walker (Charlotte), Timo (Charlotte, DL or released) and Harris (Charlotte, to learn to play SS).

mjharrison72
05-25-2005, 08:46 AM
Walker (Charlotte), Timo (Charlotte, DL or released) and Harris (Charlotte, to learn to play SS).
I agree with this... I like Ozuna as a utility guy, and Dye/Everett in the OF and Everett/Thomas as DH.

Gload can play the OF, too, can't he?

EDIT: Of course, Gload plays OF... I'm probably not the only one who got less sleep than usual watching an extra-inning ballgame last night!:cool:

mjharrison72
05-25-2005, 08:50 AM
Another option, of course, is to send another reliever to Charlotte... don't we have seven in the bullpen right now?

skottyj242
05-25-2005, 09:02 AM
Another option, of course, is to send another reliever to Charlotte... don't we have seven in the bullpen right now?

Yeah, but who goes?

fquaye149
05-25-2005, 09:09 AM
EDIT: Of course, Gload plays OF... I'm probably not the only one who got less sleep than usual watching an extra-inning ballgame last night!:cool:

I would have gone w/ your 1st instinct on this one:

Gload's defensive outfield is BRUTAL.

mjharrison72
05-25-2005, 09:25 AM
Yeah, but who goes?
I would guess Cotts or Vizcaino... obviously not the best option, but it would allow us to keep an extra utility player (probably Harris, if only for his PR abilities). We jsut probably need more utility rather than bullpen help right now.
Plus, Chris Widger can always pitch if necessary. No teal.
EDIT: Or was that Fields who was warming up in that game earlier in the season?

nlentz88
05-25-2005, 09:38 AM
Man, I would hate to mess with this team's chemistry by demoting Timo. His sense of humor and ability to speak the three main languages of the clubhouse (English, Spanish, and Japanese) are invaluable assets to the club.

When El Duque returns to form, I would send down Walker. When Thomas returns, I would send down Ozuna. I would keep Gload in the minors too. There's just no room for him... unless you're willing to lose Timo.

The other option would be to send B-Mac back down to AAA. I'm still not sure if it's in the team's long-term interest for him to moved to long-relief and spot starts for Hernandez and Contreras when needed. It might be better for him to stick with a five-day rotation in AAA and join the team in the second half.

Also, although the Sox roster seems bloated right now, all this could change in the months ahead. Kenny is always active around the trade deadline, and I can see him packaging a couple of guys on the active roster for a sure-bet long reliever, closer, or even another starter. I don't want to jinx the team, but there's a good chance a season-ending inury or two could force Kenny's hand.

Sxy Mofo
05-25-2005, 09:42 AM
If they do keep gload/frank/mcC up, I'd say we send two pitchers down and timo.

As of right now, I believe we've got an extra guy in the bullpen over what most teams keep, correct? And if we keep mcC up for long relief and spot starting for the cuban(s)... if he pitches as well as he can, we can go back to having less guys in the bullpen.

So, I'd say send down timo, walker and vizcaino.

mikehuff
05-25-2005, 09:54 AM
Man, I would hate to mess with this team's chemistry by demoting Timo. His sense of humor and ability to speak the three main languages of the clubhouse (English, Spanish, and Japanese) are invaluable assets to the club.

I couldn't possibly disagree with you anymore than I already do.
If you think it's better for the team to have a backup outfielder who's hitting .192 than Ross Gload, you're crazy. We know that Gload can hit well off the bench and right now we have nobody to really take over for Konerko at 1B. It's either Gload or Timo. I really don't think there is another option.
If this team needs Timo's sense of humor so bad, then they can hire him as a clubhouse friend to hang around with, kind of like Sosa's buddy. It's on the field that matters.

dcb33
05-25-2005, 10:10 AM
Man, I would hate to mess with this team's chemistry by demoting Timo. His sense of humor and ability to speak the three main languages of the clubhouse (English, Spanish, and Japanese) are invaluable assets to the club.

When El Duque returns to form, I would send down Walker. When Thomas returns, I would send down Ozuna. I would keep Gload in the minors too. There's just no room for him... unless you're willing to lose Timo.



They have to keep Ozuna b/c he's their only backup for the left side of the infield. That is, unless you'd rather see JD at SS.

Timo is worthless and if they send him down they still have Carl and Willie to back up the OF, so I think he would go. Vizcaino is a gas can and they really can't send Cotts down becuase that would leave Marte as the only LHP in the pen, which means Luis gets sent packing along with Walker.

TDog
05-25-2005, 10:31 AM
...
Plus, Chris Widger can always pitch if necessary. No teal....

I can't find any record of Chris Widger ever pitching in his professional career. Of course, catchers often have strong arms and know more about pitching than typical position players, but I'm not sure if any Sox position players are designated as emergency pitchers. I'm not even sure who the Sox consider their emergency third catcher. Unless the fifth starter, you hope it never comes up.

ChiSoxBobette
05-25-2005, 10:35 AM
I would guess Cotts or Vizcaino... obviously not the best option, but it would allow us to keep an extra utility player (probably Harris, if only for his PR abilities). We jsut probably need more utility rather than bullpen help right now.
Plus, Chris Widger can always pitch if necessary. No teal.
EDIT: Or was that Fields who was warming up in that game earlier in the season?

My Guess would be that if McCarthy works out in the bullpen as Buehrle did early in his carreer either Cotts and/or Vizcaino are trade bait.

mikehuff
05-25-2005, 10:35 AM
I can't find any record of Chris Widger ever pitching in his professional career. Of course, catchers often have strong arms and know more about pitching than typical position players, but I'm not sure if any Sox position players are designated as emergency pitchers. I'm not even sure who the Sox consider their emergency third catcher. Unless the fifth starter, you hope it never comes up.

They had Widger warming up in that Oakland game.

CHISOXFAN13
05-25-2005, 10:38 AM
They had Widger warming up in that Oakland game.

Widger never left third base in that game. He told Ozzie that if he needed him, he would give it a shot. He never warmed up.

mikehuff
05-25-2005, 10:47 AM
Really? I thought he was in the pen.

mantis1212
05-25-2005, 10:50 AM
They had Widger warming up in that Oakland game.

Actually, he was warming up in the game against Cleveland that Vizciano ended up pitching 3 innings and we lost 11-6 in 12 in believe.

DaleJRFan
05-25-2005, 10:51 AM
I can't find any record of Chris Widger ever pitching in his professional career. Of course, catchers often have strong arms and know more about pitching than typical position players, but I'm not sure if any Sox position players are designated as emergency pitchers. I'm not even sure who the Sox consider their emergency third catcher. Unless the fifth starter, you hope it never comes up.

This shouldn't be in teal. I saw him warming up in the bullpen on Shingo blowup day (April 7th vs Cleveland) and he CAN pitch. He throws hard and has really good mechanics. I doubt he can pitch better than Walker, Vizcaino or Cotts, though.

wdelaney72
05-25-2005, 11:13 AM
Vizcaino:
7 earned runs in his last 11 innings pitched, and this not include the 3 inning appearance at the beginning of the season. Season ERA is 6.75.

Shingo:
2 ER in last 8.2 innings pitched. Season ERA is 5.11.

Cotts:
2 ER in his last 8 innings pitched and he's a lefty. Season ERA is 3.46

Politte:
3 ER in his last 11 innings pitched. Season ERA is 2.01.

Hermanson:
His stats don't even need to be mentioned.

Outside of Kevin Walker being the first to be sent away based on age and inexperience, Vizcaino should be the next one dealt or sent down. As McNeil said yesterday "There's a fight at the opposing team's bat rack when this guy goes to the mound."

mdep524
05-25-2005, 11:14 AM
Thomas, Gload and Baj up; Timo, Walker and Vizcaino down. That's what I would do. I'm on the fence as to whether McCarthy should stay on the major league roster in long relief or start in Charlotte... I can see pros and cons to both.

CHISOXFAN13
05-25-2005, 11:18 AM
I honestly don't see them sending a guy down in Vizcaino that was given a lucrative contract. He's not getting the job done, but I don't see him going to Charlotte, either.

daslobo
05-25-2005, 11:37 AM
As good as McCarthy looks, I don't want him as a relief/spot starter right now. He needs regular work, meaning regular starts. He's only 21 and still has to build up arm strength. He needs to keep pitching every 5th game and when the rosters expand then come up and help out the big club. JMO.:wink:

SOXfnNlansing
05-25-2005, 12:11 PM
Really? I thought he was in the pen. I think he warmed up in that Cleveland blow out game where vizz the fizz gave up 6 er.

JB98
05-25-2005, 12:11 PM
I'll play Devil's Advocate here: Is there really a spot for Gload on this team? He wasn't playing when he was healthy. I've read that the shoulder problem may prohibit him from playing the OF for the rest of the season. That really takes away from his versatility, and there just aren't going to be many at-bats for him at 1B/DH, especially after Thomas comes back. Maybe he's the one that stays in Charlotte as an insurance policy in case Frank gets injured again.

As for McCarthy, he'll be back in Charlotte once Duque is healthy. I can't see any reason to put him in the bullpen at the major-league level. He's a big part of our future in the starting rotation, and I want him to throw a lot of innings this year.

SOXfnNlansing
05-25-2005, 12:14 PM
Vizcaino:
7 earned runs in his last 11 innings pitched, and this not include the 3 inning appearance at the beginning of the season. Season ERA is 6.75.



Cotts:
2 ER in his last 8 innings pitched and he's a lefty. Season ERA is 3.46





Those are all true stats, but how many inherited runners did cotts let score this season? He needs to go and Walker can stay if he's given more of a chance to show what he can do. I think he's only been in 2 games and hasn't given up anything yet. I could be wrong about that though, but if memory serves me correctly.

JB98
05-25-2005, 12:16 PM
As good as McCarthy looks, I don't want him as a relief/spot starter right now. He needs regular work, meaning regular starts. He's only 21 and still has to build up arm strength. He needs to keep pitching every 5th game and when the rosters expand then come up and help out the big club. JMO.:wink:

I couldn't agree more. I know everyone is excited about him, but you have to be smart about things. McCarthy's future is in the starting rotation, and if there isn't room for him in the big leagues, he should be a starter in triple-A. If we have a hole in middle relief, KW should resist the temptation to put this kid in the 'pen and acquire a veteran instead.

PicktoCLick72
05-25-2005, 12:19 PM
It would be a mistake to keep BMac up for just long relief and spot starts. AS said previously,a at 21 he still needs to build up his arm strength and pitching every 5th day at Charlotte will help that alot more then irratic time in the bullpen.

SpammySosa
05-25-2005, 12:30 PM
Man, I would hate to mess with this team's chemistry by demoting Timo. His sense of humor and ability to speak the three main languages of the clubhouse (English, Spanish, and Japanese) are invaluable assets to the club.

We all know that the key to a championship is having a funny, bilingual benchwarmer.:?: Why you want to waste a roster spot based on your reasons is beyond me. And you actually think the team chemistry will be in disarray if we got rid of Timo???:?: :?: :?:

:bong:

Jjav829
05-25-2005, 12:37 PM
We all know that the key to a championship is having a funny, bilingual benchwarmer.:?: Why you want to waste a roster spot based on your reasons is beyond me. And you actually think the team chemistry will be in disarray if we got rid of Timo???:?: :?: :?:

:bong:

If we release Timo and no other team signs him, maybe we can bring him back to the team in a role like Pedro's midget. Timo can just hang around in the clubhouse and tell jokes in 3 different languages. Give him some official title so that he's actually part of the White Sox. :D:

Lip Man 1
05-25-2005, 12:38 PM
Ozzie like versitility, therefore he wants more position players...therefore in my opinion it's Walker, Cotts and Harris.

Timo can play a few outfield postions as well as show good speed with some pop, he'll stay.

At the deadline, assuming everyone stays healthy, look for the Sox to try to acquire a good middle infoelder.

Lip

SpammySosa
05-25-2005, 12:39 PM
I couldn't agree more. I know everyone is excited about him, but you have to be smart about things. McCarthy's future is in the starting rotation, and if there isn't room for him in the big leagues, he should be a starter in triple-A. If we have a hole in middle relief, KW should resist the temptation to put this kid in the 'pen and acquire a veteran instead.

Do people forget so quickly when Buehrle came up in 2000 he was mostly used in the bullpen? Now I know that Buehrle and McCarthy are 2 different kinds of pitchers and that is a consideration.But I don't think you can paint with too broad a brush and say that he shouldn't be used in middle relief/spot starting just because he is a future starter. While this can be said for a lot of up and comers,I think you need to approach it on an case-by-case basis whether that player is ready to take on such a role.

JB98
05-25-2005, 12:52 PM
Do people forget so quickly when Buehrle came up in 2000 he was mostly used in the bullpen? Now I know that Buehrle and McCarthy are 2 different kinds of pitchers and that is a consideration.But I don't think you can paint with too broad a brush and say that he shouldn't be used in middle relief/spot starting just because he is a future starter. While this can be said for a lot of up and comers,I think you need to approach it on an case-by-case basis whether that player is ready to take on such a role.

I haven't forgotten that Buerhle was used in the bullpen in 2000, but you also have to realize that was done out of desperation. As you said, it's a case-by-case basis. In that case, Buerhle is left-handed, and at the time we needed someone to help take the pressure off the overused Kelly Wunsch. Left-handed relief pitching isn't the easiest commodity to acquire by trade either, so that's why Buerhle was put in that role. I don't think anyone was real excited about having to do that. We had no other options.

This year, we have plenty of other options besides putting McCarthy in middle relief. For one, there's still a chance Viz and Shingo will get their stuff together and start helping us. Two, I'm sure they'll be plenty of right-handed relievers available by trade once more teams fall out of contention. I'd rather entrust a veteran with that role than a rookie, especially with us looking to win big this year.

SpammySosa
05-25-2005, 12:57 PM
I haven't forgotten that Buerhle was used in the bullpen in 2000, but you also have to realize that was done out of desperation. As you said, it's a case-by-case basis. In that case, Buerhle is left-handed, and at the time we needed someone to help take the pressure off the overused Kelly Wunsch. Left-handed relief pitching isn't the easiest commodity to acquire by trade either, so that's why Buerhle was put in that role. I don't think anyone was real excited about having to do that. We had no other options.

This year, we have plenty of other options besides putting McCarthy in middle relief. For one, there's still a chance Viz and Shingo will get their stuff together and start helping us. Two, I'm sure they'll be plenty of right-handed relievers available by trade once more teams fall out of contention. I'd rather entrust a veteran with that role than a rookie, especially with us looking to win big this year.

Very good points taken.:D:

rmusacch
05-25-2005, 01:06 PM
Man, I would hate to mess with this team's chemistry by demoting Timo. His sense of humor and ability to speak the three main languages of the clubhouse (English, Spanish, and Japanese) are invaluable assets to the club.

When El Duque returns to form, I would send down Walker. When Thomas returns, I would send down Ozuna. I would keep Gload in the minors too. There's just no room for him... unless you're willing to lose Timo.

The other option would be to send B-Mac back down to AAA. I'm still not sure if it's in the team's long-term interest for him to moved to long-relief and spot starts for Hernandez and Contreras when needed. It might be better for him to stick with a five-day rotation in AAA and join the team in the second half.

Also, although the Sox roster seems bloated right now, all this could change in the months ahead. Kenny is always active around the trade deadline, and I can see him packaging a couple of guys on the active roster for a sure-bet long reliever, closer, or even another starter. I don't want to jinx the team, but there's a good chance a season-ending inury or two could force Kenny's hand.

The three main languages? I would assume they are the only languages spoke in the clubhouse. What else is spoken there? :)

Banix12
05-25-2005, 01:20 PM
Timo I think would stick around because of his arm and OF defense, though I could see Ozuna becoming the primary defensive sub in the OF. gload I think has to come up since he is the best pinch hitter we had last season and is the only quality defensive sub at 1st.

I think Willie is likely gone and that Walker is definitely gone. I think a pitcher might come down with a mysterious arm injury, Vizcaino and Shingo being the likely victims of said "injury"

fquaye149
05-25-2005, 01:21 PM
The three main languages? I would assume they are the only languages spoke in the clubhouse. What else is spoken there? :)

Harold Baines speaks silence.

Ozzie speaks cursive

Willie Harris speaks the language of love

mikehuff
05-25-2005, 01:30 PM
look for the Sox to try to acquire a good middle infielder.
Lip
http://www.southcoasttoday.com/daily/10-96/10-07-96/alomar.jpg

YES!!! I'm back!

StockdaleForVeep
05-25-2005, 01:33 PM
Why was walker up in the first place? Who did he replace as a callup cuz i dont recall him bein on the roster at the start of season.

mikehuff
05-25-2005, 01:47 PM
Why was walker up in the first place? Who did he replace as a callup cuz i dont recall him bein on the roster at the start of season.
Wasn't it Jamie Burke? But, who was before Burke?

- edit - oh yeah... Gload!

StockdaleForVeep
05-25-2005, 01:50 PM
Wasn't it Jamie Burke? But, who was before Burke?

Unless he's replacing gload, i dont know. Sox only have 3 on the dl with thomas, hernandez and gload, Diaz was on the dl but i guess he's been reactivated

soxfan43
05-25-2005, 01:54 PM
I don't know why people love Timo so much. He hasn't shown any reason to keep him around. He can't hit, his fielding is average and his speed isn't all that great anymore either. Frank is obvioulsy on the roster and they need Gload to back up Paulie. I can't even remember the last day off he's gotten. They also need Ozuna to back up at SS(harris sucks) and 3B. I don't know why they would keep McCarthy up. He's a starter and he should be starting somewhere. Yes he pitched well vs the cubs but he's still very young. It's not like he;s absolutely dominating AAA, I think he's better off being called up here and there to start if needed.

StockdaleForVeep
05-25-2005, 02:05 PM
I don't know why people love Timo so much. He hasn't shown any reason to keep him around. He can't hit, his fielding is average and his speed isn't all that great anymore either. Frank is obvioulsy on the roster and they need Gload to back up Paulie. I can't even remember the last day off he's gotten. They also need Ozuna to back up at SS(harris sucks) and 3B. I don't know why they would keep McCarthy up. He's a starter and he should be starting somewhere. Yes he pitched well vs the cubs but he's still very young. It's not like he;s absolutely dominating AAA, I think he's better off being called up here and there to start if needed.

People are still enthralled by Hawks "comeon timo!" yell last year.