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mikehuff
05-25-2005, 07:40 AM
http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-ssep25.html

Suntimes is reporting that Brandon McCarthy might stay up with the Sox when Orlando Hernandez returns from the DL next Tuesday. This would send Kevin Walker back to the minors. McCarthy would pitch in long relief and have some spot starts.

Any thoughts on this? I think it's good because of the fact that we won't have to rely on Cotts and Vizcaino so much if we have to pull a starter early, but long relief guys generally don't get that much work, especially with the way this staff has been throwing this year.
It definitely better for the team now, but you wonder if he should be going back to his normal schedule of starting every 5th day. However, maybe he can get enough work in with those occasional spot starts.
Buehrle did fine in that role, who knows. If he's succesful with that role, then it's a huge boost to this team.

BaseballTonyght
05-25-2005, 07:42 AM
In the spirit of instant gratification... throw his ass in the pen :D:

downstairs
05-25-2005, 07:43 AM
I don't know... seems like the guy would be better off with a starting job in the minors, rather than being essentially a bench warmer.

ondafarm
05-25-2005, 07:46 AM
With this starting five, I don't see many 'spot' starts opening up.

For his continued development, IMO, return him to Charlotte and let him start every fifth day.

JRIG
05-25-2005, 07:46 AM
Many teams have gonje with this strtegy, and I like it a lot. The Twins have done it too, allowing big-time pitching prospects an opportunity to get their feet wet in long relief.

I support this. If nothing else, we wouldn't see Walker or Vizcaino in high-leverage situations anymore.

SOXintheBURGH
05-25-2005, 07:50 AM
Didn't Buehrle start out in long relief before becoming our best starter? Go for it.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-25-2005, 07:53 AM
Isn't El Duque scheduled to miss his next start, too? I haven't heard anything about Ozzie planning to skip his turn. If not McCarthy, who else would pitch that game?

Let's not forget Buehrle was a reliever and spot starter back in 2000. He pitched some fine innings, too. As long as McCarthy is getting regular work I don't see an issue with this.

Bobby Thigpen
05-25-2005, 07:58 AM
On one hand I think it would be better for him to return to the minors and get as many starts in down there as possible. He probably won't be used very much as a long reliever, and it could possibly mess with his head, which seems to be one of his many strong points right now.

On the other hand if you keep him up he gets his feet wet and more experience at this level. You also give him more of an oppurtunity to learn from Coop and the rest of the guys on staff (Buerhle especially). Plus he'll get to eat more at the pre and post game buffets.

Overall I can see the benefits to both, and I don't really know what I would do to be quite honest. I think for me it would come down to wanting to waste one of his options to send him down since you know he'll be back at least once more this year. I'd hate to use them bringing him up and sending him down just to fill injuries and then risk losing him later because he's out of options.

mikehuff
05-25-2005, 08:01 AM
With this starting five, I don't see many 'spot' starts opening up.

Well it's possible that the Duke might need one, but he's fresh of the DL next week, so that might not be for a while. Who knows, maybe Ozzie would just throw him in there as a 6th starter during a stretch where we don't have a day off for a while. It wouldn't be any different on the regular 5 guys than a off day in the schedule.
I also agree about keeping innings away from Cotts and Vizcaino.
Also, he is scheduled to pitch for Hernandez his next start. The Duke returns on Tuesday the 31st, so that mean McCarthy would pitch this Friday.

Frater Perdurabo
05-25-2005, 08:17 AM
I don't have a problem with this idea. The lack of a long relief guy has been the major weakness in the pen. By adding a pitcher who is good enough to be a starter, the pen is improved.

If and when one of the starting five has an early inning meltdown or injury (and it will happen), McCarthy will be able to step in and throw four, five or even six innings, bridging the gap to the late innings where the Sox better relievers like Politte, Marte, Shingo and Hermanson can enter the game.

There also could be instaces where McCarthy could get the three inning (or longer) save. How nice would it be to rest the rest of the pen on a day when the starter has to leave the game before the sixth inning because the game is a 12-9 slugfest?

When he was signed, most of us realized El Duque probably would not be able to pitch 200+ innings this year. Keeping McCarthy on the team allows the Sox the flexibility to call on him at any time to step in if El Duque gets hurt or just needs to skip a start.

Also, one of Hermanson's strengths was his ability to pitch as a starter or a reliever. But why take him out of the closer's role right now?

Who's better? Kevin Walker or McCarthy? Vizcaino or McCarthy? Keep him here.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-25-2005, 08:18 AM
Who knows, maybe Ozzie would just throw him in there as a 6th starter during a stretch where we don't have a day off for a while.

I'll tell you with 100 percent certainty that the Sox will not employ a six-man rotation. Every additional starter takes starts away from your best pitcher and right now the Sox have two Cy Young candidates.

Forget it.

mikehuff
05-25-2005, 08:23 AM
He probably won't be used very much as a long reliever, and it could possibly mess with his head, which seems to be one of his many strong points right now.


His "head" is exactly why I think he would be fine out of long relief. Just by looking at him in the Cubs game you can see that he's not easily rattled, though changing his role and pressure of a large crowd are different scenarios.
Since he seems to be strong mentally, that's excatly the reason he should be fine with this.

mjharrison72
05-25-2005, 08:44 AM
Then there's always the thought that he might be a little more durable than someone like Duque... maybe Duque becomes a long-relief guy and McCarthy takes his spot in the rotation?

I just feel like at 21 the kid needs more time in the role he's going to be playing in one or two years down the road, and that's not long relief. At the same time, though, following Buehrle's example couldn't be the worst thing to happen. If the kid has a good head on his shoulders, then he'll do fine. Maybe working out with the big leaguers will help him improve his stuff, as well.

I say definitely keep him up... as a starter or as a long reliever, I think he helps this team a lot more as an active member than toiling in AAA.

Infallible
05-25-2005, 08:53 AM
Keep him up. We have Viscaino, Cotts, and Walker in the pen.....do I need to say more? Send one of those shmoe's to the minors.

skottyj242
05-25-2005, 08:57 AM
Overall I can see the benefits to both, and I don't really know what I would do to be quite honest. I think for me it would come down to wanting to waste one of his options to send him down since you know he'll be back at least once more this year. I'd hate to use them bringing him up and sending him down just to fill injuries and then risk losing him later because he's out of options.

I don't know much about the way options and the such work but isn't it it a little too early to be talking about options? I thought that discussion only came up when he has two years of service time. If anyone knows anything about "options" I would be much abliged.

Frater Perdurabo
05-25-2005, 09:03 AM
Then there's always the thought that he might be a little more durable than someone like Duque... maybe Duque becomes a long-relief guy and McCarthy takes his spot in the rotation?

I just feel like at 21 the kid needs more time in the role he's going to be playing in one or two years down the road, and that's not long relief. At the same time, though, following Buehrle's example couldn't be the worst thing to happen. If the kid has a good head on his shoulders, then he'll do fine.

No way should El Duque become the long relief guy. He needs to start when he's healthy. McCarthy would get plenty of work filling in for El Duque or for other starters if they falter earlier on in a game. McCarthy's ability to chew innings and/or get the three-inning save would minimize the exposure of the bullpen as well. The less the rest of the bullpen is exposed, the better each of the bullpen pitchers will be.

kobo
05-25-2005, 09:07 AM
I think he should go back down to the minors. The kid is 21, he has tremendous potential, and while he pitched a great game on Sunday I am concerned with the high era he has in AAA this season. It would be great if he could get innings pitching in long relief, but since our starters have been going 5+ innings for the majority of the year I wonder how much work he will really get. I think it would be a waste to bring him in once a week to pitch 4 innings when he could be pitching every 5th day in AAA.

chaerulez
05-25-2005, 09:08 AM
Didn't Buehrle start out in long relief before becoming our best starter? Go for it.

The Twins used Santana in this role for two years (technically four, but he didn't show promise until the last two), so I think this is something that would benefit both McCarthy and the team.

FJA
05-25-2005, 09:12 AM
Didn't Buehrle start out in long relief before becoming our best starter? Go for it.

That was my first thought too, but in 2000 our pitching staff was hurting badly and we desperately needed a long reliever due to injuries and subpar performances in the second half of the season. We obviously should have a solid long reliever, but I don't know if we want to waste McCarthy in that spot right now. I'm not sure we'll continue to get the high percentage of quality starts that we have gotten thus far, but if we do, McCarthy won't be used much as a long reliever, certainly not as much as Buehrle was used. If that's the case, I'd rather see him putting in the work at Charlotte. He's much too valuable in other future scenarios to hold him up here and just get an inning or two in every series.

tstrike2000
05-25-2005, 09:19 AM
There's been several good points made all the way around on keeping McCarthy up. Buehrle and Santana especially being used in these roles in the past and problems Vizcaino has had along with still some uncertainty about Cotts, and spot starting are valid reasons to keep him up here. He's shown since spring training that he has really good stuff. I agree he should get more steady work in Charlotte, but if one of the starters misses a start and we have to start Cotts, we may wish McCarthy was still up here.

infohawk
05-25-2005, 09:22 AM
In the spirit of instant gratification... throw his ass in the pen :D:

The only reason I see to keep him in the bullpen is because of the following scenario: The Sox need an emergency starter within a day or two and McCarthy has just made a start in the minors and can't go yet. I suppose Cotts could pitch, but I'd rather have McCarthy.

I guess another thing the Sox could do is give McCarthy every fourth start El Duque is supposed to pitch to keep El Duque fresh. Between that and occasional bullpen work, McCarthy could be kept sharp. Using McCarthy could also keep the starters from having to go too deep into games.

harwar
05-25-2005, 09:29 AM
Although Buehrle got knocked around in 2000 when he came in for relief apearances it was more because,our fearless leader,(jerry manuel) didn't have a clue as to what the heck he was supposed to be doing with a big-league pitching staff.
Mark has said that it was important getting his feet wet in the show at that point of his carrer instead of throwing innings down on the farm.
I love the idea of McCarthy sitting between Mark & Jon and just learning and gaining experience for the role that he was born to play .. that being a NO. 1 starter on a major league club.
Its all good,keep him up.

mikehuff
05-25-2005, 09:41 AM
That's a good point Harwar. Look at Felix Diaz's numbers in the minors before he was brought up. He had some of the best I had ever seen, but when he got up here, he got killed.

McCarthy has already shown that he can pitch in the majors, so you might as well keep him up here and give him as much practice at doing that as you can. He has the ability already, we just have to keep him mentally tough. Next year he might be a full timer in the rotation. It would be nice for him to have some experience up here.

daveeym
05-25-2005, 09:54 AM
McCarthy has already shown that he can pitch in the majors, so you might as well keep him up here and give him as much practice at doing that as you can. He has the ability already, we just have to keep him mentally tough. Next year he might be a full timer in the rotation. It would be nice for him to have some experience up here. Easy there killer, it was one game. Give him his shot but he hasn't proven anything other than that. Rocky Biddle proved he could pitch in the majors early also, I think he was sucking Frank off back then as well cuz frank loved that guy, and look at what he's done.

skottyj242
05-25-2005, 09:55 AM
I thought we were trading B Mac to the A's for Chavez?

mikehuff
05-25-2005, 09:57 AM
Easy there killer, it was one game. Give him his shot but he hasn't proven anything other than that. Rocky Biddle proved he could pitch in the majors early also, I think he was sucking Frank off back then as well cuz frank loved that guy, and look at what he's done.
I know it's one game. I'm not saying, "he's ready to be our ace."
It's a fact that he has shown that he can handle the pressure. One game or not, he did it, right? He has the ability, now we just have to work on having him to that consistently. That's the purpose of keeping him in the majors.

Mark
05-25-2005, 10:04 AM
I'm looking forward to seeing how he fares in his next start against that team from the Dallas area that can hit the crap out of the ball when their bats are on. To me, that will be a big test for him.

I'm on the fence about him getting steady innings in Charlotte or occasional innings in Chicago.

34 Inch Stick
05-25-2005, 10:27 AM
All five of these starters are signed through next year. Each one has shown that he will probably be starting again in 06. There will be plenty of time for Mc Carthy to pitch long relief in the majors. Send him back down knowing full well that it in the Sox plan to shut down El Duque again sometime this season. He will have his full year at AAA and 5+ starts in the majors on his resume at the end of the season.

There have not been enough innings of long relief on this team through more than 1/4 of the season. If the need arises you can always bring him back but let the need present itself before letting him waste on the bench.

chaz171
05-25-2005, 10:31 AM
Without a Doubt this guy needs to pitch every 5 days whether that is on the Knights or the Sox.

Most likely on the Knights

TDog
05-25-2005, 11:01 AM
Some pitchers need work in the minors. Some can hang around in the bullpen and be successful when they get their chances to start. BMac hasn't been going deep into games even at the minors, so that may be a consideration. Maybe it's not.

My first memory of seeing Buehrle at a game was in the last inning of a 13-0 game when the Sox and Baldwin beat up on Hudson and the A's in August 2000. That was on a Sunday afternoon after the Sox came back to beat the A's with the help of a 9th inning balk and a 10th inning Frank Thomas double. A man sitting behind me, talking to a man who didn't know much about the Sox explained that the Sox were so deep that MB didn't get much of a chance to pitch. I think MB surprised people the next year when he made the starting rotation, and these days Baldwin, Parque, Eldred and Sirotka are nowhere to be found.

I'm not sure how many middle-relief opportunities BMac will get, but if he's got the stuff to be a great pitcher, he would be fine staying up.

Knucksie
05-25-2005, 11:08 AM
In looking at McCarthy and his possible role as a long reliever, one detraction seems to be that the staff has had so many quality starts and the fear that BMac wouldn't get enough work.

If we were to define the role of long relief as only picking up the pieces of a quality start(er) gone bad, yes, he would be wasted in this role (Cotts was supposed to be the "mop up guy" but can't seem to get through more than 2 innings). However, if we were to consider the opprtunity for him to come in after a quality start of 5-6 innings and have him pitch 2-3 to get to the set up man and/or closer, he could be a tremendous asset and get enough innings to warrant a stay with the big league club.

In this scenario, he would allow the pen to get some rest instead of us having to witness a different pitcher every inning from 6 or 7 thru 9. He also could help conserve on the wear and tear to an El Duque by being able to pull him after 5-6 quality innings. Same can be said for Garcia (who's suffered from the tired arm before) and Contreras.

In this scenario, add in a few spot starts (6-10) in place of El Duque and many 2-3 inning relief appearances and he probably gets enough work (experience) to justify him staying without being used to much.

wdelaney72
05-25-2005, 11:16 AM
I'd rather he continue to be stretched out as a starter. Once OH comes back, send McCarthy back to Charlotte.

Flight #24
05-25-2005, 11:22 AM
I don't know much about the way options and the such work but isn't it it a little too early to be talking about options? I thought that discussion only came up when he has two years of service time. If anyone knows anything about "options" I would be much abliged.

IIRC, when you call someone up to replace a DL'd guy, you don't forfeit an option to return them to the minors when you activate the DL'd guy. If that's accurate, then you could yo-yo BMac up & down as Duque goes on & off the DL ( wiht injury or just for rest). That's purely from an "options" standpoint, it's probably not the best for his development to do that too much.

IMO if Texas goes well, Duque will have another start missed and if that goes well, BMac will stay in relief.

FanofBill
05-25-2005, 11:24 AM
http://espn.go.com/mlb/s/1999/0908/46397.html

"Options"

After three years as a pro, a player must be protected on a team's 40-man roster, or he is eligible for the Rule 5 draft (more on that later). Once he's served those three years, and assuming he is added to the 40-man roster, his club then has what are called "options" on him.

When a player is on the 40-man roster but not on the 25-man Major League roster, he is on "optional assignment." One common misconception about the rules is that a player may only be "optioned out" three times. Actually, each player has three option years, and he can be sent up and down as many times as the club chooses within those three seasons.

When you hear that a player is "out of options," that means he's been on the 40-man roster during three different seasons, beginning with his fourth as a pro, and to be sent down again he'll have to clear waivers (more on those below).

Iwritecode
05-25-2005, 12:15 PM
http://espn.go.com/mlb/s/1999/0908/46397.html

"Options"

After three years as a pro, a player must be protected on a team's 40-man roster, or he is eligible for the Rule 5 draft (more on that later). Once he's served those three years, and assuming he is added to the 40-man roster, his club then has what are called "options" on him.

When a player is on the 40-man roster but not on the 25-man Major League roster, he is on "optional assignment." One common misconception about the rules is that a player may only be "optioned out" three times. Actually, each player has three option years, and he can be sent up and down as many times as the club chooses within those three seasons.

When you hear that a player is "out of options," that means he's been on the 40-man roster during three different seasons, beginning with his fourth as a pro, and to be sent down again he'll have to clear waivers (more on those below).

I was hoping somebody would explain this.

I've never figured out how people got confused between 3 option years and 3 times of being sent up or down...

Fake Chet Lemon
05-25-2005, 12:22 PM
Putting Neil Cotts in the pen really worked well in developing him as a starter. Back the minors, I want him to be able to step right into a starting role when we need him. Odds are someone will go down. We are five games up in the division, not out. We don't need to do anything crazy, keep him in his comfort zone as a starter.

SpringfldFan
05-25-2005, 12:24 PM
It is a hard call but I think I would prefer him to go back down to Charlotte. He has had very little experience in AAA and that park down there presents a unique challenge. If he can go down there, and start putting numbers up similar to 2004, bring him back to Chicago for good.

SFF

nedlug
05-25-2005, 12:25 PM
This is not about the option years thing, but instead about McCarthy's role in the 'pen.

Yes, the bullpen would be better with him rather than Walker (because Walker would go down), and yes, he would be a great option for going 3-5 innings if needed. However, with this staff, there's not going to be too many times like that. I don't have the stats in front of me, but how many times has a pitcher been out before the end of the 4th this year? I know that they'll wear down over the year, but still - definitely worse than every 5th day, which he would be getting with the Knights.

Also, when you guys make the comparison - would you rather have McCarthy or Vizcaino, McCarthy or Cotts, that's not too valid a comparison. Think about it - if the pitcher goes through to the mid-6th or 7th, McCarthy wouldn't be coming in anyway.

The last point I want to make is that one of McCarthy's main negatives is that he can't work all the way through a game. Bullpen work definitely won't help that.

At first thought, McCarthy should definitely be in the 'pen, and in some ways, it would help the Sox out this year. I'm just pointing out that the Sox really don't need too much help with their staff right now, and with Cotts' ERA in the 3s, I'm fine with him in long relief role - for now, at least.

Lip Man 1
05-25-2005, 12:34 PM
Here's the only question that matters in my opinion....

Does keeping McCarthy on the big league roster improve the pitching staff overall right now?

The answer is yes.

Basically it's McCarthy for Kevin Walker. Who could argue with that?

Lip

34 Inch Stick
05-25-2005, 12:37 PM
That's very shortsighted Lip. You can do that with run of the mill prospects. If you have what you think is a future star, you have to be smart about grooming him. I'd rather make a trade for someone (Graves) to upgrade the bullpen for this year rather than be shorsighted with McCarthy.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-25-2005, 12:38 PM
Until El Duque can take his regular turn in the rotation, McCarthy should stay. Once El Duque is healthy enough to go every five days, send McCarthy down. He can be recalled if any of the starters (El Duque or otherwise) can't take their turn.

By late-July the Sox will know what their needs are, either for a stretch run or tuning up for the playoffs. It's very possible McCarthy could get as much work pitching for the Sox in August as he would pitching AAA in Charlotte. Thus all the fretting today solves itself in due time.

McCarthy will be pitching for the Sox long before September call ups regardless of whether he gets sent down right now. Meanwhile keeping the starting five healthy and ready to pitch is the #1 priority.

TaylorStSox
05-25-2005, 12:46 PM
It's a horrible idea. He needs to be starting every 5th day. MB and Santana were long relievers because nobody expected them to be as good as they were. They were projected to be in the pen. We already know how good McCarthy is. He's a future top of the rotation guy. Putting him in long relief will hinder his development.

Cotts is our long reliever. He's doing a damn good job, despite what some ppl think of him.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-25-2005, 12:52 PM
It's a horrible idea. He needs to be starting every 5th day. MB and Santana were long relievers because nobody expected them to be as good as they were. They were projected to be in the pen....

I would dispute that characterization. Both Buehrle and Santana showed plenty of talent long before they were sent to the pen. The pen was a great place for them to learn the league's hitters.

It wasn't putting Santana in the pen that hindered his growth; it was Minnesota's obstinance about keeping him in the pen that hindered Santana. So much for the theory about what a bunch of geniuses run that organization.

MRKARNO
05-25-2005, 12:53 PM
This is a great idea. It worked for Buehrle. It worked for Santana. It might work well for McCarthy as well. He's past needing minor league work IMO so it might make a lot of sense to do this.

He can be used as a "stopper" in the mold of the old usage pattern of pitchers. With a 3 run lead and 2 innings to go, we could use McCarthy to finish games, or have a lot of 3 innings saves.

Frater Perdurabo
05-25-2005, 12:55 PM
That's very shortsighted Lip. You can do that with run of the mill prospects. If you have what you think is a future star, you have to be smart about grooming him. I'd rather make a trade for someone (Graves) to upgrade the bullpen for this year rather than be shorsighted with McCarthy.

It worked fine with Buehrle, yes?

Frater Perdurabo
05-25-2005, 12:58 PM
McCarthy could get plenty of work as a spot starter/long relief guy here.

It's good for him and good for the team. IMHO, it's a win-win proposition to keep him here.

TaylorStSox
05-25-2005, 12:59 PM
I would dispute that characterization. Both Buehrle and Santana showed plenty of talent long before they were sent to the pen. The pen was a great place for them to learn the league's hitters.

It wasn't putting Santana in the pen that hindered his growth; it was Minnesota's obstinance about keeping him in the pen that hindered Santana. So much for the theory about what a bunch of geniuses run that organization.


Everyone didn't think that MB had the stuff to start in the majors. They didn't put him in the pen to "develop." That's revisionist history. Frankly, he was an overachiever who many thought wasn't that talented.

Santana's a bit of a different story.

The idea that McCarthy doesn't have anything to learn in AAA is crap as well. How about learning to keep the ball in the park? He needs to refine his change. He may need to develop a cutter or sinker. He's 21. He gives up too many HR's at this point and may really get exposed up here. That's a very good possiblity. He needs to learn to waste some pitches out of the zone. It's great that he attacks the zone. He strikes a ton of guys out while not walking people. But, I don't think he has the stuff to do it every 5th day against MLB hitters.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-25-2005, 01:04 PM
Everyone didn't think that MB had the stuff to start in the majors. They didn't put him in the pen to "develop." That's revisionist history. Frankly, he was an overachiever who many thought wasn't that talented.

Right, everyone didn't think MB had the stuff to start. Learning from our mistakes is what makes some people appear smarter than others.

When you can't learn anything worth learning pitching to AAA hitters, it's time to find new challenges. McCarthy is in that gray zone right now. By August he'll have plenty to contribute on the MLB level and none of us can know the precise best path to get there.

Many different ones work and the bullpen as an intermediates step definitely is one of them.

TaylorStSox
05-25-2005, 01:08 PM
Right, everyone didn't think MB had the stuff to start. Learning from our mistakes is what makes some people appear smarter than others.

When you can't learn anything worth learning pitching to AAA hitters, it's time to find new challenges. McCarthy is in that gray zone right now. By August he'll have plenty to contribute on the MLB level and none of us can know the precise best path to get there.

Many different ones work and the bullpen as an intermediates step definitely is one of them.

He was getting lit up at times in AAA. He has more to learn there. He needs to keep his change down. He needs to develop more consistancy with his curve, which can be great. Our staff is too good to keep him in the pen. He won't get enough work.

MB can't be the case study for anybody. Pitchers like him don't come around very often. He gets by on moxy and instinct. He only has one plus pitch, the cutter. His change is good and his curveball is good. But, they aren't plus pitches. He shows an uncanny instinct that comes around a few time every generation. Maddux and Glavine come to mind.

Black Sox
05-25-2005, 01:10 PM
I'd like to see the kid stay up here even if it is in the bullpen. Lets see how his next start goes though. If it goes well I'd keep him starting and put Orlando in the pen. This way it would save Orlando's arm come playoff time. You could use El Duque in the pen till around august and then begin to stretch his arm out again. McCarthy looks like the real deal and sending him back down would be a shame.

Banix12
05-25-2005, 01:23 PM
Look at Felix Diaz's numbers in the minors before he was brought up. He had some of the best I had ever seen, but when he got up here, he got killed.

Felix Diaz's ultimate future is as a major league releiver I think. Everytime he pitched last season he was lights out for the first time though the lineup, the second time through he would get crushed. That tells me he's probably best suited to face 1 inning worth of batters not 6

Flight #24
05-25-2005, 01:29 PM
He was getting lit up at times in AAA. He has more to learn there. He needs to keep his change down. He needs to develop more consistancy with his curve, which can be great. Our staff is too good to keep him in the pen. He won't get enough work.

MB can't be the case study for anybody. Pitchers like him don't come around very often. He gets by on moxy and instinct. He only has one plus pitch, the cutter. His change is good and his curveball is good. But, they aren't plus pitches. He shows an uncanny instinct that comes around a few time every generation. Maddux and Glavine come to mind.

On that note: I saw an interesting comparison. In their first 900-odd innings, Buehrle has comparable or better wins, ERA, WHIP than Maddux, Glavine, Clemens.

Obviously the Clemens comparison is tough because of the difference in styles. But IMO comparing Buehrle to Maddux/Glavine is dead on.

Banix12
05-25-2005, 01:34 PM
I think him staying up would be a good idea, if only to get experience against major league hitters. How much more can he learn facing AAA sluggers? I would also say that right now with Vizcaino and Shingo struggling for the most part, we are a bit thin on the right side of the bullpen, with Politte being the only setup man I would trust at this moment in a tight situation. They should both get better but having an extra righty right now might be a decent idea, especially since our righty long man, Hermanson, is now the closer.

jdm2662
05-25-2005, 01:36 PM
Send him back down once Hernandez is back. It does himself no good if he is in the pen up here. He shouldn't be rotting on the bench when he can continue his development.
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TaylorStSox
05-25-2005, 01:54 PM
I think him staying up would be a good idea, if only to get experience against major league hitters. How much more can he learn facing AAA sluggers? I would also say that right now with Vizcaino and Shingo struggling for the most part, we are a bit thin on the right side of the bullpen, with Politte being the only setup man I would trust at this moment in a tight situation. They should both get better but having an extra righty right now might be a decent idea, especially since our righty long man, Hermanson, is now the closer.

McCarthy has to be the only 21 year old in the history of AAA with a 3-4 record and 4.72 ERA who didn't have anything to learn from AAA sluggers. :?:

Mark
05-26-2005, 11:35 AM
Here's Ozzie on McCarthy from today's MLB.com:

"Maybe we'll change our mind later, but this kid should be throwing every five days," Guillen said of McCarthy. "This kid needs to do that. I don't want to bring this kid and all of the sudden he's sitting in the bullpen.

"I have guys in the bullpen that don't have innings. I don't think I can fit in innings for him. I think this kid has to go back to the Minor Leagues and keep throwing."


I agree.

Randar68
05-26-2005, 11:56 AM
He was getting lit up at times in AAA. He has more to learn there. He needs to keep his change down. He needs to develop more consistancy with his curve, which can be great. Our staff is too good to keep him in the pen. He won't get enough work.

MB can't be the case study for anybody. Pitchers like him don't come around very often. He gets by on moxy and instinct. He only has one plus pitch, the cutter. His change is good and his curveball is good. But, they aren't plus pitches. He shows an uncanny instinct that comes around a few time every generation. Maddux and Glavine come to mind.

Mark Buehrle absolutely OWNED AA hitters after being drafted just the previous year! Your previous statements about people thinking he couldn't start were both asinine and untrue. I rememeber nobody questioning whether he could start or not long-term.

As for McCarthy, every HR he has given up in AAA has been at Knights Stadium. Have you been there before? Makes USCF look like Safeco Field. He's a fly ball pitcher, not a big deal. Not only that, but he doesn't need another pitch, that's ridiculous. He changes speeds effectively on all of his pitches, but specifically on his fastball and curve, which he adds and subtracts on at will, and can work the ball all over the plate...

Randar68
05-26-2005, 11:59 AM
McCarthy has to be the only 21 year old in the history of AAA with a 3-4 record and 4.72 ERA who didn't have anything to learn from AAA sluggers. :?:

Pitchers have things to learn at every level no matter how much experience they have. McCarthy has nothing to prove at AAA. Is that a better statement for you? Can you grasp onto that one and make a stink about it too?

McCarthy proved this spring, and in a Wrigley Field with gale-force winds blowing out, that he belongs in the majors at any time. He's ready now. End of story. Can he go back to AAA and still work on things? Hell yeah.

Will he learn anything from giving up 340 foot HR's in the gap to AAAA minor league veterans? Nothing he can't learn anywhere else.

CallMeNuts
05-26-2005, 10:03 PM
The plan:

1) When el Duque is ready to return, we should adjust the rotation slightly to split the Cubans. Rotation would be Buerhle, Garcia, Contreras, Garland, Hernandez.

2) Limit Hernandez to 5-6 innings. BMac gets 3-4 innings every 5th day.

3) BMac would also be available for an inning or two on Contreras or Garcia starts.

Results:

1) Everybody goes into October strong and healthy.

2) BMac gets regular work, against hitters that he is ready for. His emotional maturity grows even stronger because he is succeeding against the best.

MRKARNO
05-26-2005, 10:38 PM
The plan:

1) When el Duque is ready to return, we should adjust the rotation slightly to split the Cubans. Rotation would be Buerhle, Garcia, Contreras, Garland, Hernandez.

2) Limit Hernandez to 5-6 innings. BMac gets 3-4 innings every 5th day.

3) BMac would also be available for an inning or two on Contreras or Garcia starts.

Results:

1) Everybody goes into October strong and healthy.

2) BMac gets regular work, against hitters that he is ready for. His emotional maturity grows even stronger because he is succeeding against the best.

Some organizations have been experimenting with something similar to this, where one pitcher goes 5 innings to begin a game one time through the rotation and four innings to closer the game the next. Maybe this might be a case where it could be applied to the major league level for the first time.