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View Full Version : Who's Getting Replaced At The Deadline?


mikehuff
05-24-2005, 11:31 AM
This seems to be a rotating thing. Last time it looked like was going to be Konerko and Dye on the trade block, but right now, they look good enough to stay. At this current moment it looks like the old favorite Joe Crede is right back where he was expected to be. He's hitting .238.
This is going to keep changing throughout the year so I guess it might be whoever is cold once mid July comes around.
My vote is to somehow get a new third baseman. I know this won't happen though. I said before the season that the Sox will have Crede through the entire 2005 season no matter what he does and I still believe that.
Vizcaino has become a new contender for this honor.

SOXSINCE'70
05-24-2005, 11:45 AM
In some latin language,Vizcaino,when translated,
is LaChoke Hawkins,Jr.:roflmao: :roflmao:

ma_deuce
05-24-2005, 12:01 PM
I believe that the inclusion of Big Frank will be the midseason "shot in the arm" that the team needs. Unless there is a great deal to be made, I doubt you will see much of a trade. However, if Gload and Thomas come back with a vengence, we may see some less spectacular trades with Perez, Viz, or some AAA talent (no, not BMac or Anderson).

I'm a big fan of not fixing something that ain't broke. We still have two months to go till the deadline, so lets see what arises and we'll deal with it along the way. In the meantime, I am gonna sit back and enjoy the view from the top of the League. :D:

wdelaney72
05-24-2005, 12:12 PM
This team as is is in first place and looks to stay that way. No one from the MLB roster gets traded.

downstairs
05-24-2005, 12:17 PM
What the heck do we need, and what could we possibly give up for it?

Middle relief? Everyone "needs" that because your middle relievers are basically pitchers that can't start and are too unreliable to be relievers. Name some "great" middle relievers out there for me...

Maybe we can get lucky in a fire sale and get another big hitter... but if Big Frank is doing OK... where would we put him?

My vote is nothing is going to happen.

bludupree
05-24-2005, 12:21 PM
This seems to be a rotating thing. Last time it looked like was going to be Konerko and Dye on the trade block, but right now, they look good enough to stay. At this current moment it looks like the old favorite Joe Crede is right back where he was expected to be. He's hitting .238.
This is going to keep changing throughout the year so I guess it might be whoever is cold once mid July comes around.
My vote is to somehow get a new third baseman. I know this won't happen though. I said before the season that the Sox will have Crede through the entire 2005 season no matter what he does and I still believe that.
Vizcaino has become a new contender for this honor.

Who would we replace Crede with? I personally have been very pleased with his defense and don't think we should downgrade defensively

joe_tansey2004
05-24-2005, 12:28 PM
I say make a trade with the Phillies for Placido Polanco and move Uribe to third and make Polanco our Shortstop.

mdep524
05-24-2005, 12:36 PM
Just an overall comment:

In general, I am a fan of the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach to a team with the best record in baseball... but that doesn't mean the Sox shouldn't look to improve their team at all down the line in July. Remember, last year the Cardinals had the best record in baseball and had a double-digit lead in the NL Central, but still acquired a big bat in Larry Walker and sniffed around Randy Johnson at the trade deadline.

So I don't think we should stand pat just because we have had a lot of early success...but superfluous chemistry-altering moves just for the sake of making a move are a bad idea as well.

He gone
05-24-2005, 01:23 PM
Who would we replace Crede with?


Eric Chavez? Maybe Oakland has a fire sale in July?

You know Kenny Williams isn't going to give Konerko a new contract with a raise next year. So I look for Paul to maybe be traded.

In reality, if the offense starts hitting we wouldn't even be talking about replacements.

ATXBMX
05-24-2005, 01:57 PM
Someone has to go when Frank comes back, there just isn't room on the active roster for him. Walker is gone when Gload comes back. McCarthy is gone when El Duque comes back. That leaves Ozuna, Willie, and Timo as players that could go somewhere. Ozuna and Willie are the more versatile, but if Frank comes back and contributes like he is supposed to, Everett becomes expendable.

DaleJRFan
05-24-2005, 02:10 PM
I say make a trade with the Phillies for Placido Polanco and move Uribe to third and make Polanco our Shortstop.

Why? Uribe isn't doing any better than Crede, maybe even worse. At least Crede doesn't throw the ball into the stands.

I like Polonco though, and I know the Phillies would like to move him. Good call there. I doubt the Sox will be the only team that wants him, though.

Iguana775
05-24-2005, 02:13 PM
I believe that the inclusion of Big Frank will be the midseason "shot in the arm" that the team needs. Unless there is a great deal to be made, I doubt you will see much of a trade. However, if Gload and Thomas come back with a vengence, we may see some less spectacular trades with Perez, Viz, or some AAA talent (no, not BMac or Anderson).

I'm a big fan of not fixing something that ain't broke. We still have two months to go till the deadline, so lets see what arises and we'll deal with it along the way. In the meantime, I am gonna sit back and enjoy the view from the top of the League. :D:

Can Frank play 3rd??!!

DaleJRFan
05-24-2005, 02:15 PM
Can Frank play 3rd??!!

ha, yea... he'd field the ball and have to hand it to Cora to throw to 1B... :D:

Iguana775
05-24-2005, 02:29 PM
ha, yea... he'd field the ball and have to hand it to Cora to throw to 1B... :D:

yea, he better hand it. we all know how he is at throwing. :D:

NorthlakeTom
05-24-2005, 02:36 PM
Middle relief? Everyone "needs" that because your middle relievers are basically pitchers that can't start and are too unreliable to be relievers. Name some "great" middle relievers out there for me...
I don't know about great, but Politte and Marte are highly effective. If the Sox can land an exceptional closer, Hermanson could be moved back, and it would be the best bullpen by far.

mikehuff
05-24-2005, 02:59 PM
This is reported from cbssportsline.com's rumor mill section...

"Oakland reportedly is ready to put OF Eric Byrnes, who got into a dustup with Athletics manager Ken Macha over the weekend, back on the trading block, says the Beaver County Times. The Pirates figure to still have interest after nearly landing him in spring training."

Maybe this guy would fit in? Didn't the Sox already look at him in the off season? He makes $2.2 mil, which would require some shuffling of Everett and Timo. I'd rather have him and Dye for next year than Everett.

ChiSoxRowand
05-24-2005, 03:12 PM
If the Phillies fall out of the race, Billy Wagner will be available. I would love for the Sox to go after him, but he would cost a lot and Hermanson is doing a great job in the closers role. Right now I see no need to make a trade.

PicktoCLick72
05-24-2005, 03:35 PM
Originally Posted by He gone
You know Kenny Williams isn't going to give Konerko a new contract with a raise next year. So I look for Paul to maybe be traded.

In reality, if the offense starts hitting we wouldn't even be talking about replacements.
If the Sox are in first place at the time of the deadline they will not trade one of their best hitters. That would be a horribly stupid move to trade Konerko at the deadline. No matter if we sign him or not for next year, we still need his bat come the stretch run.

mccoydp
05-24-2005, 03:48 PM
Don't look for any trades unless their records starts to head south.

Right now, I don't see anything happening.

Jjav829
05-24-2005, 03:48 PM
Crede has 4 weeks to turn it around IMO. 2 weeks ago he was looking fine. He started the Baltimore series hitting .294. Entering today he is hitting .238. That's 2 for his last 34. We can't afford to have that from him in this lineup. He's basically been Paul Konerko this season with much less power and production. He had a horrible first two weeks. He then had a good 3 weeks. Now another bad 2 weeks. Paulie can get away with this a bit more because when he's hot, he can carry the team. Crede's hot streaks aren't nearly as good as Konerko's. If Crede doesn't hit well for the next 4 weeks, Kenny needs to look for replacements.

Frater Perdurabo
05-24-2005, 03:53 PM
Crede has 4 weeks to turn it around IMO. 2 weeks ago he was looking fine. He started the Baltimore series hitting .294. Entering today he is hitting .238. That's 2 for his last 34. We can't afford to have that from him in this lineup. He's basically been Paul Konerko this season with much less power and production. He had a horrible first two weeks. He then had a good 3 weeks. Now another bad 2 weeks. Paulie can get away with this a bit more because when he's hot, he can carry the team. Crede's hot streaks aren't nearly as good as Konerko's. If Crede doesn't hit well for the next 4 weeks, Kenny needs to look for replacements.

Paging Aubrey Huff...

Flight #24
05-24-2005, 03:56 PM
If the Sox are in first place at the time of the deadline they will not trade one of their best hitters. That would be a horribly stupid move to trade Konerko at the deadline. No matter if we sign him or not for next year, we still need his bat come the stretch run.

Ummm...if Konerko is traded it will almost certainly be for an equal or better hitter. How exactly would that hurt the team again?

Jjav829
05-24-2005, 03:58 PM
Paging Aubrey Huff...

As I've said before, I'm not big on the idea of Huff at 3B. However, I've also said I would like to replace Konerko with Huff next year. With that in mind, I wouldn't be opposed to trading for Huff to replace Crede for the rest of this year and then moving him to 1B next year. That is assuming we do need to replace Crede...

popilius
05-24-2005, 04:13 PM
I say make a trade with the Phillies for Placido Polanco and move Uribe to third and make Polanco our Shortstop.

Please tell me this is a joke.

:?:

Frater Perdurabo
05-24-2005, 04:16 PM
As I've said before, I'm not big on the idea of Huff at 3B. However, I've also said I would like to replace Konerko with Huff next year. With that in mind, I wouldn't be opposed to trading for Huff to replace Crede for the rest of this year and then moving him to 1B next year. That is assuming we do need to replace Crede...

I think we're thinking alike on this one. I really hoped Crede's hitting streak earlier this year was evidence that he had finally turned the corner, but now he's back to his normal self. If his rectal-cranial inversion persists through June, it may indeed be time to cut bait with him. Would Tampa Bay consider Crede plus prospects for Huff?

Jjav829
05-24-2005, 04:22 PM
I think we're thinking alike on this one. I really hoped Crede's hitting streak earlier this year was evidence that he had finally turned the corner, but now he's back to his normal self. If his rectal-cranial inversion persists through June, it may indeed be time to cut bait with him. Would Tampa Bay consider Crede plus prospects for Huff?

I think they would take Crede since he is young and cheap, though he's certainly not enough to be the centerpiece of a deal. They would still be looking for a couple top prospects.

TheOldRoman
05-24-2005, 04:27 PM
I think they would take Crede since he is young and cheap, though he's certainly not enough to be the centerpiece of a deal. They would still be looking for a couple top prospects.
My only question is, how is Huff defensively at 3B? While Crede has been an offensive black hole in the lineup, he is GOOD defensively (not great). He may not be a good hitter, but he makes plays that the Joe Randas of the world don't. If Huff is a poor defensive 3B, Im not so sure I want him.

steranim
05-24-2005, 04:28 PM
As I've said before, I'm not big on the idea of Huff at 3B. However, I've also said I would like to replace Konerko with Huff next year. With that in mind, I wouldn't be opposed to trading for Huff to replace Crede for the rest of this year and then moving him to 1B next year. That is assuming we do need to replace Crede...
Player ---- Avg - HR - RBI - Runs - SB - OPS

PKon ---- .234 -- 11 -- 33 -- 24 -- 0 -- .819
AHuff ---- .253 -- 2 -- 26 -- 16 -- 5 -- .701

Where do we gain?

MRKARNO
05-24-2005, 04:29 PM
This team needs another reliever, whether it be someone who's at the back end of someone else's bullpen right now or just a solid middle reliever on a bad team. With four dependable relievers, I'd feel a lot better about our World Series chances, which isn't to say that we cant do that without another reliever.

It might be a good idea to try out Bobby Jenks and Jeff Bajenaru in the short-term however because both of them might be viable options.

Jjav829
05-24-2005, 04:30 PM
My only question is, how is Huff defensively at 3B? While Crede has been an offensive black hole in the lineup, he is GOOD defensively (not great). He may not be a good hitter, but he makes plays that the Joe Randas of the world don't. If Huff is a poor defensive 3B, Im not so sure I want him.

He's adequate at best, which is why I've been opposed to putting him at 3rd in the past. He's not Jose Valentin over there, but he's far from Scott Rolen. I don't know that he's a guy you'd want to make a fixture at 3B, but for half a season, he'll get the job done. Like I said, the move would have to be made contingent of putting Huff at either 1B or DH next year, depending on what happens with Frank and Paulie.

steranim
05-24-2005, 04:32 PM
My only question is, how is Huff defensively at 3B? While Crede has been an offensive black hole in the lineup, he is GOOD defensively (not great). He may not be a good hitter, but he makes plays that the Joe Randas of the world don't. If Huff is a poor defensive 3B, Im not so sure I want him.

2004:

AHuff -- 12 errors in 87 3B games
Crede -- 12 errors in 144 3B games

Huff hasn't even played 3rd this year, he is there 1st baseman

Jjav829
05-24-2005, 04:34 PM
Player ---- Avg - HR - RBI - Runs - SB - OPS

PKon ---- .234 -- 11 -- 33 -- 24 -- 0 -- .819
AHuff ---- .253 -- 2 -- 26 -- 16 -- 5 -- .701

Where do we gain?

Yeah, you always want to judge a guy based on when he's struggling. That's always the best time to judge his true value. GMAB. Go look at his numbers over the past two years and consider that he wasn't playing in a bandbox like the Cell. He's cheaper and more consistent than Konerko.

Iguana775
05-24-2005, 04:35 PM
Player ---- Avg - HR - RBI - Runs - SB - OPS

PKon ---- .234 -- 11 -- 33 -- 24 -- 0 -- .819
AHuff ---- .253 -- 2 -- 26 -- 16 -- 5 -- .701

Where do we gain?

SB. :D:

DumpJerry
05-24-2005, 04:36 PM
I'm not looking for a trade right now. Crede could be better, but if we trade him, we should keep in mind that Josh Fields may be ready next year (the 3B Josh Fields, not the pitcher). KW and crew should evaluate if we can win with Crede's inconsistent bat and better than average glove (except for last night...). Now, an ideal lineup for the first five would be:
Pods
Gooch
BIG BAT
Thomas
Konerko.

This would drive pitchers all over MLB crazy. The pitchers would have to pitch to each of these guys with Paulie being the weakest link. Do we have a BIG BAT to put at #3 or do we deal for one?

NorthlakeTom
05-24-2005, 04:39 PM
2004:

AHuff -- 12 errors in 87 3B games
Crede -- 12 errors in 144 3B games

Huff hasn't even played 3rd this year, he is there 1st baseman
Huff doesn't look to be good at all at third base.

Career at 3rd
Huff .929 38 E in 219 G, 32 DP
Crede .962 35 in 369, 68 DP

DumpJerry
05-24-2005, 04:40 PM
BTW, I think one person who might get dealt is Contreras is BMac stays strong with us. Contreras could bring us a BIG BAT.

steranim
05-24-2005, 04:40 PM
Yeah, you always want to judge a guy based on when he's struggling. That's always the best time to judge his true value. GMAB. Go look at his numbers over the past two years and consider that he wasn't playing in a bandbox like the Cell. He's cheaper and more consistent than Konerko.

I agree he's been better in the past, but if we're making a run, don't we want someone who is playig good now? Huff has played most of this year at RF (27 games) and only 13 starts at first. Last year he played RF,LF,3B & 1B. Great utility player, may even find his nitch, but not to replace an every day 1st bagger like PKon.

IMO

steranim
05-24-2005, 04:41 PM
SB. :D:

lmao

Dolanski
05-24-2005, 04:45 PM
Ummm...if Konerko is traded it will almost certainly be for an equal or better hitter. How exactly would that hurt the team again?

Haven't they been talking all year about how chemistry is the key to this team? Didn't Kenny say they would only trade for a guy would be an asset to the clubhouse? If that is the case, why would the Sox trade the leader of the team? For that matter, he is the most popular player on the team and the Sox are not about to torpedo their PR.

I would say that Dye would be the obvious choice for trade. He's not making a ton of money and he's not performing up to snuff as of yet.

Of course, with the log jam at DH, Carl or Frank are also likely trade bait, Frank more than Carl because of his contract and personality. If the Sox don't trade him, they have to pay 3.5 mill to opt out of his contract for next season or pay him 10 mill next year. I don't know about you but 10 mil is a lot for an injury prone DH with a bad attitude.

Jjav829
05-24-2005, 04:46 PM
I agree he's been better in the past, but if we're making a run, don't we want someone who is playig good now? Huff has played most of this year at RF (27 games) and only 13 starts at first. Last year he played RF,LF,3B & 1B. Great utility player, may even find his nitch, but not to replace an every day 1st bagger like PKon.

IMO

I didn't say replace Konerko with Huff this year. Re-read my post. My suggestion was to bring Huff in to play 3B this year with the idea of moving him to 1B or DH next year based on what happens with Konerko and Thomas.

Also, don't refer to him as a utility player. Utility player has the connotation of a player that doesn't deserve to play everyday. Huff is an everyday player. The only reason he has played so many positions is because he's a Devil Ray. Any decent organization would have found Huff a permanent position and built the team with Huff written in at that position. But because they are the Devil Rays, they move Huff all over in order to replace with him old, crappy veterans like Travis Lee, Alex Gonzalez and Danny Bautista.

steranim
05-24-2005, 04:50 PM
I didn't say replace Konerko with Huff this year. Re-read my post. My suggestion was to bring Huff in to play 3B this year with the idea of moving him to 1B or DH next year based on what happens with Konerko and Thomas.

Also, don't refer to him as a utility player. Utility player has the connotation of a player that doesn't deserve to play everyday. Huff is an everyday player. The only reason he has played so many positions is because he's a Devil Ray. Any decent organization would have found Huff a permanent position and built the team with Huff written in at that position. But because they are the Devil Rays, they move Huff all over in order to replace with him old, crappy veterans like Travis Lee, Alex Gonzalez and Danny Bautista.

I'll still take Crede over Huff at 3rd and PKon over Huff at 1st. This year.

Jjav829
05-24-2005, 04:51 PM
I'll still take Crede over Huff at 3rd and PKon over Huff at 1st. This year.

Can I ask why? Do you really think Crede's defense is that important to this team that you wouldn't replace him with Huff?

ATXBMX
05-24-2005, 04:53 PM
If we were looking for a big bat, helton or chavez would be great, even though chavez is struggling. Chavez is friends with dye, so there's always that relationship similar to El Duque/Contreras or Uribe/Perez, but Billy Beane would want Crede, McCarthy, and more. Colorado would have to eat a lot of helton's contract. If we traded Konerko +prospects to colorado, they could turn around and trade konerko for more prospects in a 3 or 4 team deal. Either way, this team could use a good left handed bat. Both guys are gold glove fielders.

Huff would be a decent option, but if we put him at third this year, who would we put there next year? I doubt Fields would be much better than Crede by next year.

If we were looking for a reliever, Houston might be shopping Brad Lidge. That team isn't going anywhere, and a they don't need a good closer when they get shut out every other day.

NorthlakeTom
05-24-2005, 05:06 PM
I would say that Dye would be the obvious choice for trade. He's not making a ton of money and he's not performing up to snuff as of yet.

Of course, with the log jam at DH, Carl or Frank are also likely trade bait, Frank more than Carl because of his contract and personality. If the Sox don't trade him, they have to pay 3.5 mill to opt out of his contract for next season or pay him 10 mill next year. I don't know about you but 10 mil is a lot for an injury prone DH with a bad attitude.

Dye had an awful April, but you might be surprised by his May numbers:
.292/.352/.677

Let's compare them with May for some of the other players:
Iguchi: .282/.338/.535
Pierzynski: .268/.333/.463
Rowand: .314/.372/.500
Podsednik: .312/.404/.364
Konerko: .254/.386/.437
Crede, Uribe, Everett: don't ask

It could be argued that Dye has been the best hitter as of late, though Rowand and Pods have been hot as well (It's interesting that Podsednik has a higher OBP than SLG). It's way too early to consider trading Dye.

I may be wrong about Frank, but I don't think his attitude is anywhere near as bad as the media portrays it.

steranim
05-24-2005, 05:13 PM
Can I ask why? Do you really think Crede's defense is that important to this team that you wouldn't replace him with Huff?

I do think that Crede's defense is that important to this team. If we give up Crede for a bigger bat (Huff) and double our errors at third it will lead to more runs for the other teams. We can't afford that. Not for Huff who is only hitting .253. That is not a good trade off. Right now we are a pitching and defensive team, which equals wins for us and we are winning the close games. I attribute these close wins to defense, bullpen and closing. I don't see an advantage in giving up more errors at the corner to get a little more offense.

Huff has 6 more hits, 10 more RBI and 2 less HR than Crede right now. That dosn't weigh in my mind to give up more errors and more runs, because we start to lose the close ones.

Flight #24
05-24-2005, 05:34 PM
Haven't they been talking all year about how chemistry is the key to this team? Didn't Kenny say they would only trade for a guy would be an asset to the clubhouse? If that is the case, why would the Sox trade the leader of the team? For that matter, he is the most popular player on the team and the Sox are not about to torpedo their PR.

I would say that Dye would be the obvious choice for trade. He's not making a ton of money and he's not performing up to snuff as of yet.

Of course, with the log jam at DH, Carl or Frank are also likely trade bait, Frank more than Carl because of his contract and personality. If the Sox don't trade him, they have to pay 3.5 mill to opt out of his contract for next season or pay him 10 mill next year. I don't know about you but 10 mil is a lot for an injury prone DH with a bad attitude.

In the same post, you say the Sox should keep Konerko and they should let go Frank Thomas. I.e. you keep a guy who in his best year puts up numbers that are considered a down year for the guy you let go.:kukoo:

As for "leader of the team", outside of Paulie being the guy reporters go to for quotes, where does anyone say he's the team leader. Ozzie is the leader, with Buehrle close behind and maybe AJ given his impact on the starters.

As for PR value - what are we, Cub fans? You trade Paul Konerko and get back a better hitter and Sox fans won't care because you'll be winning. And you know what - guys who hit .220 with RISP virtually grow on trees. No one's saying trade Konerko for a bag of balls, but if you bring in a better hitter, you'll see even BETTER RBI totals out of your #4 hitter which leads to more wins and happier fans.

MHOUSE
05-24-2005, 09:26 PM
The only places we could upgrade IMO is the middle of the bullpen or the left side of the infield. Marte/Politte setting up Hermanson has worked out well and I see no reason to break that up with a new closer or setup man. Another reliever to shore up the 6th/7th innings with Viz, Cotts/Walker, etc. would be a good addition. I don't see any position players being moved. Trading any of them would create another hole unless we got an upgrade straight up. If anything the bench might get shuffled since Timo, Gload, and Harris haven't been getting much PT and Frank is on the way back.

shaunburnette
05-24-2005, 09:32 PM
In the same post, you say the Sox should keep Konerko and they should let go Frank Thomas. I.e. you keep a guy who in his best year puts up numbers that are considered a down year for the guy you let go.:kukoo:

As for "leader of the team", outside of Paulie being the guy reporters go to for quotes, where does anyone say he's the team leader. Ozzie is the leader, with Buehrle close behind and maybe AJ given his impact on the starters.

As for PR value - what are we, Cub fans? You trade Paul Konerko and get back a better hitter and Sox fans won't care because you'll be winning. .

And who is going to take Konerko for their better hitting player?

PAPChiSox729
05-24-2005, 09:39 PM
Now, an ideal lineup for the first five would be:
Pods
Gooch
BIG BAT
Thomas
Konerko.

This would drive pitchers all over MLB crazy. The pitchers would have to pitch to each of these guys with Paulie being the weakest link. Do we have a BIG BAT to put at #3 or do we deal for one?

Well, the only problem with that scenario is finding the BIG BAT at the right price. I don't think that will happen. I really don't think we will see any major trades, except for maybe another reliever. Other than that, though, I don't see any realistic trades coming our way.

Flight #24
05-24-2005, 10:30 PM
And who is going to take Konerko for their better hitting player?

Someone who:
a) wants the prospects who'd most likely go with Paulie
b) wants to reduce salary by sending over a longer term deal for a guy hitting FA
c) wants to trade a higher salaried player for one they can likely resign at a lower rate
d) all of the above

Perfect example: Mike Hampton gets traded from Colorado for Preston Wilson and Charles Johnson. Who really wanted Wilson & Johnson? No one. But CO really wanted to get out from under some of that Hampton deal, and they did.

History might just repeat itself (if we're lucky).

Infallible
05-24-2005, 10:38 PM
Someone has to go when Frank comes back, there just isn't room on the active roster for him. Walker is gone when Gload comes back. McCarthy is gone when El Duque comes back. That leaves Ozuna, Willie, and Timo as players that could go somewhere. Ozuna and Willie are the more versatile, but if Frank comes back and contributes like he is supposed to, Everett becomes expendable.

How about Mcarthy stays as hopefully reliable middle relief and Vizcaino goes? Timo needs to go. Dye needs to go. Everett needs to stay, I believe that man is the leader on this team, more so than any of the other active members of this roster.

Dolanski
05-25-2005, 03:01 AM
In the same post, you say the Sox should keep Konerko and they should let go Frank Thomas. I.e. you keep a guy who in his best year puts up numbers that are considered a down year for the guy you let go.:kukoo:

As for "leader of the team", outside of Paulie being the guy reporters go to for quotes, where does anyone say he's the team leader. Ozzie is the leader, with Buehrle close behind and maybe AJ given his impact on the starters.

As for PR value - what are we, Cub fans? You trade Paul Konerko and get back a better hitter and Sox fans won't care because you'll be winning. And you know what - guys who hit .220 with RISP virtually grow on trees. No one's saying trade Konerko for a bag of balls, but if you bring in a better hitter, you'll see even BETTER RBI totals out of your #4 hitter which leads to more wins and happier fans.

Frank is old. His best years are behind him. Is he still a good hitter? Yes. Is he worth 10 mil? No. I see him getting traded because his contract sucks for the team. Do you really see them paying a guy 10 mil who hasn't played a full season in two years and is going to be 37? That would be just stoopid. Kenny may be a gamblers, but he ain't stoopid.

You obviously are not a Konerko fan. To each his own. But like it or not, he is the face of this team. He is a fan favorite. They will NOT trade him. PR value has an impact on who stays or goes period. The front office is VERY aware of the impact of the White Flag trade and are not going to risk taking deal that may/may not improve the club. If they trade him and they don't win, it will be lamented for years to come.

As for "are we the Cubs", well, how many people here complain about lack of support nationally? Locally? We Sox fans know what the attendance is because it is a concern for us. If we don't draw, they don't put a team on the field that can compete. Do you think trading Konerko will be popular? It will be, if and only if, they win the whole enchilada. Kind of a big risk, don't you think?

You say don't trade him for a bag of balls, fine. Who then? Aubrey? No. Helton? Not going to happen without a McCarthy type prospect too. Sweeney? No, on principle that its within our own division. I just don't see them moving him. It doesn't make sense on or off the field.

clee-hegone
05-25-2005, 03:53 AM
there is will be a 3 team deal involving the sox,yanks and a's. with the sox getting chavez, zito and a guy like duchscherer, oak getting giambi, crede, mccarthy, hopefully borchard, yanks get thomas duque and probably a a prospect or 2. with the money we save from thomas and duque we can pay chavez's new deal he signed earlier in the year and resign zito long term, not to mention extend paulie. we do not need thomas he gave us a great 15 yrs but we have a real chance this yr and we have to deal him to do it good bye. duque has been great but he is old , zito needs a scenery change, and chavez is better offensively and defensively than crede. personally i think we should deal politte to the cubs cause they need help and politte in limited action has been lights out.

TheOldRoman
05-25-2005, 04:03 AM
there is will be a 3 team deal involving the sox,yanks and a's. with the sox getting chavez, zito and a guy like duchscherer, oak getting giambi, crede, mccarthy, hopefully borchard, yanks get thomas duque and probably a a prospect or 2. with the money we save from thomas and duque we can pay chavez's new deal he signed earlier in the year and resign zito long term, not to mention extend paulie. we do not need thomas he gave us a great 15 yrs but we have a real chance this yr and we have to deal him to do it good bye. duque has been great but he is old , zito needs a scenery change, and chavez is better offensively and defensively than crede. personally i think we should deal politte to the cubs cause they need help and politte in limited action has been lights out.
That is insane. Do you have any evidence of it when you say "there will be a 3 team deal" or are you pulling it out of your ass? By the way, that would possibly be the worst trade of all time. Big Frank is still great. Chavez may be a BALCO boy, and makes WAY too much money. El Duque is a much better pitcher than Zito currently, and it looks like Zito will never be good again. Why would we give up our best hitter and the best pitching prospect in baseball to make our team worse?
:dtroll:

mmmmmbeeer
05-25-2005, 04:08 AM
there is will be a 3 team deal involving the sox,yanks and a's. with the sox getting chavez, zito and a guy like duchscherer, oak getting giambi, crede, mccarthy, hopefully borchard, yanks get thomas duque and probably a a prospect or 2. with the money we save from thomas and duque we can pay chavez's new deal he signed earlier in the year and resign zito long term, not to mention extend paulie. we do not need thomas he gave us a great 15 yrs but we have a real chance this yr and we have to deal him to do it good bye. duque has been great but he is old , zito needs a scenery change, and chavez is better offensively and defensively than crede. personally i think we should deal politte to the cubs cause they need help and politte in limited action has been lights out.

if there were any validity to this I'd be one happy camper. I'm not sure how much better Zito would be in our rotation compared to The Duke, but Barry has the talent; not to mention the effect Duque's dismissal would have on Contreras. But Chavez would be HUGE in our lineup. He's finally starting to heat up a bit too.

although, there's no way in heck Bean wants Giambi back, nor is he going to let Duscherer go, a cheap young talented reliever.

ChiWhiteSox1337
05-25-2005, 06:04 AM
there is will be a 3 team deal involving the sox,yanks and a's. with the sox getting chavez, zito and a guy like duchscherer, oak getting giambi, crede, mccarthy, hopefully borchard, yanks get thomas duque and probably a a prospect or 2. with the money we save from thomas and duque we can pay chavez's new deal he signed earlier in the year and resign zito long term, not to mention extend paulie. we do not need thomas he gave us a great 15 yrs but we have a real chance this yr and we have to deal him to do it good bye. duque has been great but he is old , zito needs a scenery change, and chavez is better offensively and defensively than crede. personally i think we should deal politte to the cubs cause they need help and politte in limited action has been lights out.
:rolling:
So the Sox are going to trade a big time pitching prospect in McCarthy, and two great veterans in El Duque and Thomas for Chavez and :smokin:Barry Zito, who both have sucked this season, because they give the Sox a better chance? :roflmao:The funniest part is the last line, the Sox should trade Politte to the Cubs because they need help? What do the Cubs have the Sox would need? :kukoo:

Frater Perdurabo
05-25-2005, 09:30 AM
there is will be a 3 team deal involving the sox,yanks and a's. with the sox getting chavez, zito and a guy like duchscherer, oak getting giambi, crede, mccarthy, hopefully borchard, yanks get thomas duque and probably a a prospect or 2. with the money we save from thomas and duque we can pay chavez's new deal he signed earlier in the year and resign zito long term, not to mention extend paulie. we do not need thomas he gave us a great 15 yrs but we have a real chance this yr and we have to deal him to do it good bye. duque has been great but he is old , zito needs a scenery change, and chavez is better offensively and defensively than crede. personally i think we should deal politte to the cubs cause they need help and politte in limited action has been lights out.

:dtroll:

I smell ROADHOUSE......

Flight #24
05-25-2005, 10:19 AM
Frank is old. His best years are behind him. Is he still a good hitter? Yes. Is he worth 10 mil? No. I see him getting traded because his contract sucks for the team. Do you really see them paying a guy 10 mil who hasn't played a full season in two years and is going to be 37? That would be just stoopid. Kenny may be a gamblers, but he ain't stoopid.

You obviously are not a Konerko fan. To each his own. But like it or not, he is the face of this team. He is a fan favorite. They will NOT trade him. PR value has an impact on who stays or goes period. The front office is VERY aware of the impact of the White Flag trade and are not going to risk taking deal that may/may not improve the club. If they trade him and they don't win, it will be lamented for years to come.

As for "are we the Cubs", well, how many people here complain about lack of support nationally? Locally? We Sox fans know what the attendance is because it is a concern for us. If we don't draw, they don't put a team on the field that can compete. Do you think trading Konerko will be popular? It will be, if and only if, they win the whole enchilada. Kind of a big risk, don't you think?

You say don't trade him for a bag of balls, fine. Who then? Aubrey? No. Helton? Not going to happen without a McCarthy type prospect too. Sweeney? No, on principle that its within our own division. I just don't see them moving him. It doesn't make sense on or off the field.

You're asking the wrong question about Frank. It's not "is he worth $10mil", it's "is he worth $6.5mil". Because that's the savings from cutting him. Yes, he's older and has injury concerns. But even in a down year, he's still a top-flight hitter, and the team's best offensive player. As for trading him? That's ludicrous. What this team is missing is a Frank Thomas caliber hitter. You won't get one in trade, and you can't find one for the $6.5mil in savings next year. And as for PR value - yeah, it's a great move to cut/trade your former MVP, future hall of famer. That's great PR!

As for Konerko, he's not a bad player. He's a nice one - but he's not great either. In his "good" stretches, he's very good but not great. In his bad stretches, he's pretty bad. Unfortunately, he seems to alternate them. The point on Konerko isn't that it's necessary to dump him, it's that he is what he is - a nice player. In fact, the Sox have a team of nice players. That's better than what they had, which was a team of 3-4 stars and 2-3 schmucks. But it's not as good as a team with 1-2 stars and 0 schmucks. If the Sox want to make themselves a dominant WS contender, they should be looking to upgrade 1-2 "nice" players for stars. When you have a "nice" player who's paid like a star, that becomes the obvious place to try and upgrade.

Konerko is a good player, but flawed, and treated like a star by fans. Guess who else fit that description? A certain bulked-up, corked-up guy on the north side. He too was a good player, but nowhere near the superstar that he was made out to be. You don't pay those guys like stars, and you always look to upgrade that type of guy into a better player.

No one's advocating trading Konerko just to dump him. But there's ways to do it and upgrade, and there's much better ways to spend $8-10mil next year. And it's certainly absolutely ludicrous to let go a better player to further overpay a guy who's already overpaid.

Tragg
05-25-2005, 10:37 AM
Someone who:
a) wants the prospects who'd most likely go with Paulie
b) wants to reduce salary by sending over a longer term deal for a guy hitting FA
c) wants to trade a higher salaried player for one they can likely resign at a lower rate
d) all of the above

Perfect example: Mike Hampton gets traded from Colorado for Preston Wilson and Charles Johnson. Who really wanted Wilson & Johnson? No one. But CO really wanted to get out from under some of that Hampton deal, and they did.

History might just repeat itself (if we're lucky).

Right, but the Braves are paying a pile of money for a pretty good, not great, pitcher - a lot more than he warrants.
Can't we just rent a player for 1/2 a year for a middlin prospect or 2 like everybody else does.

Dolanski
05-25-2005, 11:15 AM
You're asking the wrong question about Frank. It's not "is he worth $10mil", it's "is he worth $6.5mil". Because that's the savings from cutting him. Yes, he's older and has injury concerns. But even in a down year, he's still a top-flight hitter, and the team's best offensive player. As for trading him? That's ludicrous. What this team is missing is a Frank Thomas caliber hitter. You won't get one in trade, and you can't find one for the $6.5mil in savings next year. And as for PR value - yeah, it's a great move to cut/trade your former MVP, future hall of famer. That's great PR!

As for Konerko, he's not a bad player. He's a nice one - but he's not great either. In his "good" stretches, he's very good but not great. In his bad stretches, he's pretty bad. Unfortunately, he seems to alternate them. The point on Konerko isn't that it's necessary to dump him, it's that he is what he is - a nice player. In fact, the Sox have a team of nice players. That's better than what they had, which was a team of 3-4 stars and 2-3 schmucks. But it's not as good as a team with 1-2 stars and 0 schmucks. If the Sox want to make themselves a dominant WS contender, they should be looking to upgrade 1-2 "nice" players for stars. When you have a "nice" player who's paid like a star, that becomes the obvious place to try and upgrade.

Konerko is a good player, but flawed, and treated like a star by fans. Guess who else fit that description? A certain bulked-up, corked-up guy on the north side. He too was a good player, but nowhere near the superstar that he was made out to be. You don't pay those guys like stars, and you always look to upgrade that type of guy into a better player.

No one's advocating trading Konerko just to dump him. But there's ways to do it and upgrade, and there's much better ways to spend $8-10mil next year. And it's certainly absolutely ludicrous to let go a better player to further overpay a guy who's already overpaid.

Frank is still 37, can't play the field, and has always been a pain in the clubhouse. When he was younger, it didn't matter that much because he was a hitting machine. Then again, they never quite won anything when he was younger either. Frank has 2 of the last 4 years on the DL.

Frank has a contract that is too large and ripe for moving. The intangibles favor trading him (age, injury history, demeanor). Its pretty obvious that he won't be back here next season as it is. They won't pay him 10 mil, and if he is a Free Agent it is likely that someone will fork over the cash he is looking for. When he does come back, enjoy the last season of Frank Thomas because by trade or contract buyout, this is his last season in a White Sox uniform.

Flight #24
05-25-2005, 11:23 AM
Frank is still 37, can't play the field, and has always been a pain in the clubhouse. When he was younger, it didn't matter that much because he was a hitting machine. Then again, they never quite won anything when he was younger either. Frank has 2 of the last 4 years on the DL.

Frank has a contract that is too large and ripe for moving. The intangibles favor trading him (age, injury history, demeanor). Its pretty obvious that he won't be back here next season as it is. They won't pay him 10 mil, and if he is a Free Agent it is likely that someone will fork over the cash he is looking for. When he does come back, enjoy the last season of Frank Thomas because by trade or contract buyout, this is his last season in a White Sox uniform.

Yes, that "pain in the clubhouse", who's the one who's been mentoring the younger hitters like Rowand & Uribe.....

The guy you want to trade.....to do what exactly? Free up money to resign a lesser player in Konerko who's never been heard of to work with younger players? To try and acquire another piece for this year - when that piece is a Frank Thomas-like hitter and you already have him?

That large contract, "ripe for moving" or for cutting that actually would save the team.....$6.5mil. If Frank didn't have injury concerns, he'd be worth $10-15mil based on contracts signed this offseason (somewhere between JD Drew and Carlos Delgado, but on a shorter length deal). And he'll almost certainly accept a reduced salary on an extension.

And since you apparently forgot, that guy who before his injury was hitting like an MVP. The injury is why you don't give him a long-term deal, but even at a reduced performance level, he'll still outperform every other hitter on the team.

They may indeed let him go - but it'll be a bad, bad move. Only to be trumped by resigning Paulie to a big money deal if indeed they do that too.

clee-hegone
05-25-2005, 12:33 PM
was discussed on espn radio yesterday afternoon. the local guys said that rumor from upstairs (assuming they are referring to the national guys) was that if oakland were to keep slipping as they are that deal would be discussed. it would explain why ozzie protected mccarthy on sunday not to show weakness, thomas is not wanted in that clubhouse, ozzie doesnt want him, isnt that obvious to you guys yet. ozzie is building this team how he wants it. I dont know about you guys but BMAC may be a great pitcher in the future but i'm tired of potential, im tired of the future, if this deal is what KW feels will push us over the hump and get to the series then lets do it. as far the cubs-politte comment i just want to see another garland-karchner deal that was wishful thinking there.

SSN721
05-25-2005, 01:09 PM
was discussed on espn radio yesterday afternoon. the local guys said that rumor from upstairs (assuming they are referring to the national guys) was that if oakland were to keep slipping as they are that deal would be discussed. it would explain why ozzie protected mccarthy on sunday not to show weakness, thomas is not wanted in that clubhouse, ozzie doesnt want him, isnt that obvious to you guys yet. ozzie is building this team how he wants it. I dont know about you guys but BMAC may be a great pitcher in the future but i'm tired of potential, im tired of the future, if this deal is what KW feels will push us over the hump and get to the series then lets do it. as far the cubs-politte comment i just want to see another garland-karchner deal that was wishful thinking there.

Politte is a very solid releiver for us right now, what would we get from the CUbs? Its seems pointless to even make this statement of pure speculation if you dont even have a player that we would trade him for, I cant think of a player other then Lee on the Cubs roster that I would even want. And it would take a hell of a lot more then Politte to get him. I still think if that trade goes down i would have to seriously question KDubs sanity. I think many fans would be in an uproar, giving up your best pitching prospect, your best hitter once he gets back from rehab, the only part of that trade that doesnt bother me is Crede. But even Chavez is questionable at this point. Defensive upgrade by just a little, but if he stays to his career numbers he is better but not a massive upgrade, at least not worthy of Crede and McCarthy to get him. I think if that trade happened it would piss off an awful lot of Sox fans, starting with myself. just sounds very stupid to me.

AZChiSoxFan
05-25-2005, 01:21 PM
there is will be a 3 team deal involving the sox,yanks and a's. with the sox getting chavez, zito and a guy like duchscherer, oak getting giambi, crede, mccarthy, hopefully borchard, yanks get thomas duque and probably a a prospect or 2. with the money we save from thomas and duque we can pay chavez's new deal he signed earlier in the year and resign zito long term, not to mention extend paulie. we do not need thomas he gave us a great 15 yrs but we have a real chance this yr and we have to deal him to do it good bye. duque has been great but he is old , zito needs a scenery change, and chavez is better offensively and defensively than crede. personally i think we should deal politte to the cubs cause they need help and politte in limited action has been lights out.



I think you forgot the teal.

AZChiSoxFan
05-25-2005, 01:24 PM
was discussed on espn radio yesterday afternoon. the local guys said that rumor from upstairs (assuming they are referring to the national guys) was that if oakland were to keep slipping as they are that deal would be discussed. it would explain why ozzie protected mccarthy on sunday not to show weakness, thomas is not wanted in that clubhouse, ozzie doesnt want him, isnt that obvious to you guys yet. ozzie is building this team how he wants it. I dont know about you guys but BMAC may be a great pitcher in the future but i'm tired of potential, im tired of the future, if this deal is what KW feels will push us over the hump and get to the series then lets do it. as far the cubs-politte comment i just want to see another garland-karchner deal that was wishful thinking there.

Aside from all of the other things wrong with your post (that everyone else has already pointed out), please explain to me why Oakland would take on a washed up player (Giambi) who is still due approximately $80 Million.

maurice
05-25-2005, 01:26 PM
Frank's not going anywhere this season. When he's healthy, he still posts an OPS around 1.000. That's much better than anybody else on the Sox roster. The clubhouse thing is a trollish media creation. Frank was rehabbing in the Sox MLB clubhouse up until the start of his rehab assignment. Obviously, his presence did not cause the Sox to lose.

The valid injury and age concerns will prevent him from getting a big, long-term deal elsewhere and actually increase the chances that he will retire in a White Sox uniform. Plus, Frank is JR's favorite player. Konerko, OTOH, is on his way out the door at the end of the season IMHO. Get used to the idea.

ATXBMX
05-25-2005, 01:48 PM
Frank has a contract that is too large and ripe for moving. The intangibles favor trading him (age, injury history, demeanor). Its pretty obvious that he won't be back here next season as it is. They won't pay him 10 mil, and if he is a Free Agent it is likely that someone will fork over the cash he is looking for. When he does come back, enjoy the last season of Frank Thomas because by trade or contract buyout, this is his last season in a White Sox uniform.

Frank is a 10-5 player, which in case you didn't know, means he can't be traded without his consent. Why in the world would he accept a trade? There is no incentive for him to accept a trade. He wouldn't want to leave the best team in baseball.

Flight #24
05-25-2005, 02:16 PM
Frank is a 10-5 player, which in case you didn't know, means he can't be traded without his consent. Why in the world would he accept a trade? There is no incentive for him to accept a trade. He wouldn't want to leave the best team in baseball.

Not to mention the recent report that he's moving back to Chicago fulltime to get married and spend more time with his kids.

Flight #24
05-25-2005, 02:20 PM
Frank's not going anywhere this season. When he's healthy, he still posts an OPS around 1.000. That's much better than anybody else on the Sox roster. The clubhouse thing is a trollish media creation. Frank was rehabbing in the Sox MLB clubhouse up until the start of his rehab assignment. Obviously, his presence did not cause the Sox to lose.

The valid injury and age concerns will prevent him from getting a big, long-term deal elsewhere and actually increase the chances that he will retire in a White Sox uniform. Plus, Frank is JR's favorite player. Konerko, OTOH, is on his way out the door at the end of the season IMHO. Get used to the idea.

In fact, Frank's impact in the clubhouse imay actually be positive. Check this quote from today's Daily Herald (http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sportsstory.asp?id=53854):



ANAHEIM, Calif. — When Frank Thomas was traveling with the White Sox before heading to Class AAA Charlotte on a rehabilitation assignment, he talked to Juan Uribe on a daily basis.

Enamored with Uribe’s raw offensive skills, Thomas kept hammering the same message to the Sox’ starting shortstop. To summarize, he reminded Uribe to stay under control at the plate.

“I stayed on him, and I think he liked it,’’ Thomas said in late April. Now that Thomas is away from the White Sox, Uribe has become a wild swinger again. Heading into Tuesday night’s game against the Angels, the 26-year-old infielder was hitless in his last 14 at-bats and mired in a 3-for-35 slump.

That cancer. If only he'd keep his damned mouth shut (except when talking to reporters that is).

mikehuff
05-25-2005, 02:57 PM
I was an advocate of trading Konerko last year when his value was at it's peak. I knew it wouldn't get any better than that. Imagine putting a 41 HR on the block now and what it could get us...

The difference is that we are in the thick of it this year and we can actually compete with and beat the Twins, and if we had a 41 HR guy, we wouldn't need to shop anybody.

details, details...

Dolanski
05-25-2005, 06:07 PM
Frank is a 10-5 player, which in case you didn't know, means he can't be traded without his consent. Why in the world would he accept a trade? There is no incentive for him to accept a trade. He wouldn't want to leave the best team in baseball.

Ohh, forgot about that one. Makes the situation a bit sticker doesn't it? Hmm, does anyone know if he has a teams he can be traded to clause?

As far as people talking about Konerko being traded or left unsigned at the end of the year, fine, who is the Sox first basemen then? Gload? Put Frank back in the field? For that matter, aren't we getting ahead of ourselves here? I think its time to stop arguing about the hypotheticals and go back to enjoying the Sox season.

swingkid02
05-26-2005, 01:59 PM
I keep reading that everyone thinks that we're going to get rid of Konerko.

Do you really think that a team that has to fight for fans and attendance would get rid of the last remaining fan favorite on this team?

We got rid of Mags... thank god he went out like a bum, or else everyone would have been horribly pissed, Lee never became a huge fan favorite because he was outshined by Paulie and Mags and also because he had no personality.

Fans hate Crede (BTW IMHO if we trade him we will kick ourselves down the road). The Buerhle Garland and the other pitchers are only seen once every five days.

If we want to keep fans... and hopefully gain some new young ones, there has to be a player on the team that people want to see when and if they attend. Right now that is Konerko... we can't get rid of him!

Frater Perdurabo
05-26-2005, 02:08 PM
Ohh, forgot about that one. Makes the situation a bit sticker doesn't it? Hmm, does anyone know if he has a teams he can be traded to clause?

As far as people talking about Konerko being traded or left unsigned at the end of the year, fine, who is the Sox first basemen then? Gload? Put Frank back in the field? For that matter, aren't we getting ahead of ourselves here? I think its time to stop arguing about the hypotheticals and go back to enjoying the Sox season.

The 10 and 5 rule means that Frank can veto a trade to any team. He's earned that right through the collective bargaining agreement. He doesn't have to accept a trade anywhere if he doesn't want to leave the Sox.

maurice
05-26-2005, 02:08 PM
Do you really think that a team that has to fight for fans and attendance would get rid of the last remaining fan favorite on this team?

:hurt
*cough*

:burly
*cough*

:rowand
*cough*

:pods:
*cough*

mikehuff
05-26-2005, 02:19 PM
I keep reading that everyone thinks that we're going to get rid of Konerko.

Do you really think that a team that has to fight for fans and attendance would get rid of the last remaining fan favorite on this team?

We got rid of Mags... thank god he went out like a bum, or else everyone would have been horribly pissed, Lee never became a huge fan favorite because he was outshined by Paulie and Mags and also because he had no personality.

Fans hate Crede (BTW IMHO if we trade him we will kick ourselves down the road). The Buerhle Garland and the other pitchers are only seen once every five days.

If we want to keep fans... and hopefully gain some new young ones, there has to be a player on the team that people want to see when and if they attend. Right now that is Konerko... we can't get rid of him!

Winning a championship should be the most important thing. If giving up a streaky hitter that people like wins us a World Series, then I don't see a problem with that.
I think that having a fan favorite is nice too, but he's done nothing to demand he stays on this team. It's the team that I'm concerned about.
Do you think fans will protest if the Sox are in deep in the playoffs just because .235 hitting Konerko isn't on the team anymore?
If this organization gets to be more concerned with filling seats then winning, then you know what we become... that's right... the big red "C"

DaleJRFan
05-26-2005, 02:35 PM
In fact, Frank's impact in the clubhouse imay actually be positive. Check this quote from today's Daily Herald (http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sportsstory.asp?id=53854):


That cancer. If only he'd keep his damned mouth shut (except when talking to reporters that is).

He needs to finish his career here and hopefully stay in the organization as a hitting instructor. Period.

nasox
05-26-2005, 02:37 PM
He needs to finish his career here and hopefully stay in the organization as a hitting instructor. Period.

I agree. It would be a huge shame to have him finish his career elsewhere. He needs to play a couple more with the sox and maybe win the big one here.

SOXit2EM
05-26-2005, 06:50 PM
I do believe that Frank WILL give this offense a nice shot in the arm when he returns, BUT i think that eventually we are going to need a better 3b. Crede is a good defensive 3b, but as we all know is hitting is VERY inconsistent, which is why he may need to be replaced if he doesn't pick it up soon. I for one wouldn't mind seeing KW explore a possible trade for someone like Eric Chavez, if Oakland were looking to move him... Another position we may need to explore would be closer. I know that Hermansen has been untouchable so far, but i do think he would be best suited for setup, along with Marte. Gagne or Wagner are one's that MAY be available, if those teams keep sliding....But i guess at this point we should take the "IF it ain't broke don't fix it approach", as many of you believe, but i sure wouldn't mind seeing KW explore other options as well :cool:

sircaffey1
05-26-2005, 09:11 PM
But i guess at this point we should take the "IF it ain't broke don't fix it approach", as many of you believe, but i sure wouldn't mind seeing KW explore other options as well :cool:


That "if it ain't broke don't fix it" crap is a bunch of malarky...Like somehow (for example) replacing Joe Crede with Eric Chavez would hurt this team. How can anyone justify that that would be a detrimental move to the major league club? I can't think of 1 reason why that would be bad. It's not like KW would completely remake the team at the deadline. There's tweaking to be done on this club if we are serious about a World Series Championship. I think KW will do it (not necessarily a Chavez deal).

MeanFish
05-26-2005, 09:17 PM
I have a gut feeling that Joe Randa might be wearing black and white before the trade deadline passes. We desperately need a steady bat at the bottom of the order, and Randa provides that along with a veteran "grinder" presence and a low price tag.

PAPChiSox729
05-26-2005, 09:33 PM
I have a gut feeling that Joe Randa might be wearing black and white before the trade deadline passes. We desperately need a steady bat at the bottom of the order, and Randa provides that along with a veteran "grinder" presence and a low price tag.
A lot of people on this board are pretty interested with Randa but I just don't think he is coming. With his style of play and steady bat, he would certainly be a welcomed addition to this team, but I still think KW believes Crede is the future, especially with the struggles of Josh Fields (the 3rd baseman). If anything, maybe a reliever could be traded for.

SOXit2EM
05-26-2005, 09:42 PM
That "if it ain't broke don't fix it" crap is a bunch of malarky...Like somehow (for example) replacing Joe Crede with Eric Chavez would hurt this team. How can anyone justify that that would be a detrimental move to the major league club? I can't think of 1 reason why that would be bad. It's not like KW would completely remake the team at the deadline. There's tweaking to be done on this club if we are serious about a World Series Championship. I think KW will do it (not necessarily a Chavez deal). SHHHHH....You don't want to get the locals riled up :cool:

mikehuff
05-27-2005, 08:07 AM
Well I'm back to pushing for getting Dye out of here, if that's even possible. Everett looks great too, he has a worse batting average than Crede! Look at these averages...

- Konkero - .237
- Dye - .212
- Crede - .234
- Everett - .232
- Uribe - .237

Hitless wonders indeed. If someone would have told me before the season started that this is how 5 of our EVERYDAY PLAYERS would be doing, I would have puked. How in the hell are we the best team in baseball?
Anyone who think that just because we're winning that we don't need to get better offense is nuts.

SOXit2EM
05-27-2005, 08:10 PM
How in the hell are we the best team in baseball?
Anyone who think that just because we're winning that we don't need to get better offense is nuts. Well i'm not quite sure we are the best team in baseball, we obviously have the best record, but that's mainly because our pitchers have been UNBELIEVABLE. Our offense on the other hand has been mediocre at BEST. I think KW is going to wait another month to see if our hitter's can turn it around, and hopefully Frank makes a difference, before he thinks about making any major changes, but you can bet KW's mind is twirling around all kinds of ideas like a baton! :cool:

Jurr
05-28-2005, 09:43 PM
Well i'm not quite sure we are the best team in baseball, we obviously have the best record, but that's mainly because our pitchers have been UNBELIEVABLE. Our offense on the other hand has been mediocre at BEST. I think KW is going to wait another month to see if our hitter's can turn it around, and hopefully Frank makes a difference, before he thinks about making any major changes, but you can bet KW's mind is twirling around all kinds of ideas like a baton! :cool:
What does Eric Chavez make this year? It's between 8 and 9 mil, right? I don't know if the Sox could take on that kind of payroll. But, if they decide to, they need to hurry up and do it, and buy that commodity while it's low. He's got 4 bombs and 21 RBI right now. If he heats up any more, we'd be giving an arm and a leg for him.

White Sox Josh
05-28-2005, 09:53 PM
:crede
I will be replaced!

wassagstdu
05-29-2005, 08:39 AM
:crede
I will be replaced!

How about Crede, Uribe, and McCarthy for Rollins and Bell -- assuming the Philthies are ready for a white flag trade. The left side of the infield needs work, but I wouldn't touch anything else.

socko82
05-29-2005, 10:50 AM
I have a gut feeling that Joe Randa might be wearing black and white before the trade deadline passes. We desperately need a steady bat at the bottom of the order, and Randa provides that along with a veteran "grinder" presence and a low price tag.

Randa is better than Crede and could be a bridge for a year until Fields is ready. But if you're looking at Cincinnati for an upgrade at 3B, what about Ryan Freel?
He is the definition of a grinder and you could have a top 3 of Pods, Freel, and Iguchi or bat him ninth and have the same 3 bunched together.