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Jjav829
05-23-2005, 04:46 PM
The Reds are cleaning house. A day after Graves made an obscene gesture to a fan after being booed and taunted, the Reds designated Graves for assignment.

I would think the Cubs would take a long look at him.

Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2066723)

White Sox Josh
05-23-2005, 04:59 PM
Maybe Kenny could take a look at him.

Jerko
05-23-2005, 05:03 PM
Graves has been brutal this year. I know the Reds have nothing to play for but Graves has been horrible.

Jjav829
05-23-2005, 05:08 PM
Graves has been brutal this year. I know the Reds have nothing to play for but Graves has been horrible.

He really hasn't been that bad. If you look at his numbers for the year, he looks awful. However, in his past 3 outings he has had games where he allowed 4 and 5 runs. Before those games, his ERA was at 3.45. He's been putting guys on base all year long, but he's gotten out of the jam most of the time. Graves only has 2 blown saves on the year. He'd be an upgrade for the Cubs bullpen, that's for sure.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-23-2005, 05:10 PM
The Reds are cleaning house. A day after Graves made an obscene gesture to a fan after being booed and taunted, the Reds designated Graves for assignment.

Wow! It's rare that you ever get such a crystal clear example of what sort of ballplayers feed quotes to the media and what they're thought of within the organization.

Here's what Graves had to say (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-0505230186may23,1,6760581.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines) just yesterday about ex-teammate D'Angelo Jimenez:

It's not happening for Jimenez, whose recent de-motion to the minors was met with approval in the clubhouse. Danny Graves said it best: "When you don't want to try and you don't want to try to get better, there are guys in the minors who do. That attitude can become a cancer. D'Angelo didn't have the attitude that I'm going to help the team. If a guy isn't going to try to contribute, why keep him around?"

I wonder how many Reds fans were tricked into thinking Graves was a great clubhouse presence, Mr. Team Chemistry?

:cool:

Fenway
05-23-2005, 06:15 PM
http://cmsimg.enquirer.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=AB&Date=20050523&Category=SPT04&ArtNo=50523009&Ref=AR&MaxW=300&MaxH=280&border=0 (http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/misc?url=/misc/zoom.pbs&Site=AB&Date=20050523&Category=SPT04&ArtNo=50523009&Ref=AR)

Reds cut Graves (http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050523/SPT04/50523009)
A day after Reds pitcher Danny Graves made an obscene hand gesture to a fan at Great American Ball Park, the Reds designated the veteran reliever for assignment this afternoon.
Poll: Did the Reds make the right move? (http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050523/CINCI/50523011)
Updated Reds depth chart (http://www.cincinnati.com/reds/depthchart.html)

MHOUSE
05-23-2005, 06:31 PM
Just saw this on ESPN bottomline. LINK (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2066723). He has the Reds career record for saves (182) and saved 41 games last year.

Aside from having a 7.36 ERA and a 2.29 WHIP, Graves also made some sort of "obscene gesture" to a fan after the game yesterday and that was the last straw.

He'll get picked up pretty quickly I bet. Cubs maybe? Too bad he's usually fuel to the fire and can't nail it down without the tying run on base.

maurice
05-23-2005, 06:47 PM
Until 5/18, his ERA was 3.45. Then, he had 2 disasterous outings (9 ER) bracketed around a very good outing. Last year, he was 41-50 in save opportunities.

He's not great, but he's way better than the crap a lot of teams are running out there.

Dick Allen
05-23-2005, 07:32 PM
I read that he lost 6MPH off his fastball since the Reds tried to make him a starter. The Cubs can have him.

Fredsox
05-23-2005, 08:36 PM
I read that he lost 6MPH off his fastball since the Reds tried to make him a starter. The Cubs can have him.

Unlexplained loss in velocity? Hmmmmm.

Lip Man 1
05-23-2005, 08:45 PM
The Sox have nothing to lose...give him a deal and send him to Charlotte. See what he has left (if anything...) Maybe he was trying to force his way out of a losing situation in Cincinnati. (It's been known to happen before by athletes...)

Lip

White Sox Josh
05-23-2005, 08:53 PM
Unlexplained loss in velocity? Hmmmmm.How many innings did Graves pitch last year? Before the season with Oakland in 02 Koch had pitched no more than 78 innings. During the 02 season Oakland pounded him by pitching him 93.2 innings total and that doesn't include the playoffs. It's pretty easy to break down that way but You would think Graves could handle it because he was a starter.

Banix12
05-23-2005, 09:36 PM
The reds are right to clean house, that team really has no direction right now. Some great young hitters but they get nothing from the entire pitching staff.

Whitesox029
05-23-2005, 09:41 PM
The Reds are cleaning house. A day after Graves made an obscene gesture to a fan after being booed and taunted, the Reds designated Graves for assignment.

I would think the Cubs would take a long look at him.

Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2066723)
Yes, yet another class act to add to the North Side organization.

juanuribe
05-23-2005, 11:36 PM
Aside from having a 7.36 ERA and a 2.29 WHIP, Graves also made some sort of "obscene gesture" to a fan after the game yesterday and that was the last straw.

Is Danny Graves english for Jose Paniagua?

DSpivack
05-24-2005, 12:24 AM
If he actually took the demotion would he then be D'Angelo's teammate? Talk about irony.

Lip Man 1
05-24-2005, 01:29 AM
Story on the Tribune web site tonight. Apparently the Sox are interested.. quotes Ozzie as saying he can't believe the reds let him go. They have ten days to work out a deal or release him outright.

Story also talks about how Williams is always looking for an edge, to improve his depth.

Lip

StillMissOzzie
05-24-2005, 01:51 AM
If he actually took the demotion would he then be D'Angelo's teammate? Talk about irony.

LMAO!!

SMO
:roflmao:

Jjav829
05-24-2005, 02:03 AM
Story on the Tribune web site tonight. Apparently the Sox are interested.. quotes Ozzie as saying he can't believe the reds let him go. They have ten days to work out a deal or release him outright.

Story also talks about how Williams is always looking for an edge, to improve his depth.

Lip

I can see a Vizcaino for Graves trade - with the Reds picking up the difference in salaries - working. The Reds basically shot themselves in the foot with this move. They are not going to get much of value in return because teams know Graves will be put on waivers, and for the very same reason, team aren't going to trade for Graves without the Reds picking up most, if not all, of his salary. So at this point, the Reds will be lucky to get anything decent in return. They might be willing to take Vizcaino just to get something in return for Graves. If they can't trade him, they're looking at putting him on waivers. Since it's unlikely that a team will want to pick up the remainder of Graves $6.25 million salary, he'd likely clear waivers. So the Reds would be left paying all his salary with nothing in return. I think there's a very real chance we could see a Vizcaino-for-Graves swap, assuming the Sox are interested.

WhiteSoxFan84
05-24-2005, 02:30 AM
if the cubs pick this guy up it would be a HUGE mistake. he's just another latroy hawkins with a better track record as a closer. much like hawkins history as a setup man in minnesota. keyword there, HISTORY.

Iguana775
05-24-2005, 08:25 AM
He was designated for assignment. would he be worth a look if he clears waivers? He is the Reds all time save leader. Maybe Cooper can work his magic with him.

Flight #24
05-24-2005, 10:05 AM
I can see a Vizcaino for Graves trade - with the Reds picking up the difference in salaries - working. The Reds basically shot themselves in the foot with this move. They are not going to get much of value in return because teams know Graves will be put on waivers, and for the very same reason, team aren't going to trade for Graves without the Reds picking up most, if not all, of his salary. So at this point, the Reds will be lucky to get anything decent in return. They might be willing to take Vizcaino just to get something in return for Graves. If they can't trade him, they're looking at putting him on waivers. Since it's unlikely that a team will want to pick up the remainder of Graves $6.25 million salary, he'd likely clear waivers. So the Reds would be left paying all his salary with nothing in return. I think there's a very real chance we could see a Vizcaino-for-Graves swap, assuming the Sox are interested.

Not sure if that's really a good move. Graves ERA has been punded by a couple of outings, but his WHIP was horrendous prior to that, so it seems that the ERA was just magically low. Declining G/F ratios, mediocre K/9, and outside of 1 year, relatively poor K/BB. In general, Vizcaino's posted better #s over the past few years, he just hasn't been an official closer.

These guys are fairly comparable, but Viz strikes out more guys. And despite his struggles, Viz is having a better year than Graves. Not bad as insurance, but I'm not sure I'd consider Graves an upgrade over any of our current guys.