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View Full Version : What should happen to Konerko?


Irishsox1
05-23-2005, 01:45 PM
After his comments about Uribe's fake against Flubbie Derrek Lee, what should the Sox do with Konerko? Let's put it to a vote.

Frater Perdurabo
05-23-2005, 01:56 PM
As I said before, I'm riding shotgun on Randar's "Bench or Trade Paul Konerko" bandwagon. I agree with Randar's suggestion that the Sox put together a package (that includes Konerko) to give Colorado get major salary relief in exchange for their first baseman and cash to help pay his contract. :wink:

NorthlakeTom
05-23-2005, 01:59 PM
Assuming his quotes weren't taken out of context (and that's a big assumption, AFAIC), I trust Ozzie will deal with Konerko in an appropriate manner.

voodoochile
05-23-2005, 02:01 PM
You know, I didn't even consider that an punishment should be forthcoming, but I like the idea. Have a closed door meeting telling the players to keep it in the house. Announce a one-game bench for Paulie and go forward...

Frater Perdurabo
05-23-2005, 02:02 PM
You know, I didn't even consider that an punishment should be forthcoming, but I like the idea. Have a closed door meeting telling the players to keep it in the house. Announce a one-game bench for Paulie and go forward...

Do this tonight. Then trade him when KW has secured a decent package in return.

Flight #24
05-23-2005, 02:06 PM
Do this tonight. Then trade him when KW has secured a decent package in return.

Disagree. You wait until Frank's back because I'll bet that's when Paulie will start to really take off. That's when you deal him knowing full well that the team that gets him won't have a Frank Thomas to hit in front of him.

If Paulie gets it up to .270 with his power, his value goes up. Unfortunately, so does his price. So that's when you might be able to get Colorado to do a deal that makes financial sense and you get Helton at a slight increase in cost to Paulie.

ND_Sox_Fan
05-23-2005, 02:09 PM
As I said before, I'm riding shotgun on Randar's "Bench or Trade Paul Konerko" bandwagon. I agree with Randar's suggestion that the Sox put together a package (that includes Konerko) to give Colorado get major salary relief in exchange for their first baseman and cash to help pay his contract. :wink:

I get goosebumps just thinking about it.

whitesoxwilkes
05-23-2005, 02:13 PM
Let Ozzie handle the matter internally.

And stop all the trade talk. End of story.

Mountains out of molehills here, folks.

Jjav829
05-23-2005, 02:14 PM
Trading for Todd Helton would be the worst thing this team could do.

Flight #24
05-23-2005, 02:14 PM
Let Ozzie handle the matter internally.

And stop all the trade talk. End of story.

Mountains out of molehills here, folks.

To be fair - the trade talk isn't because of this incident, it's more because either a)We get a better player or b)we shouldn't be spending $8+mil on this guy long-term. He's a good player, but not worth that.

NorthlakeTom
05-23-2005, 02:15 PM
I would certainly welcome Todd Helton for Konerko, but what would be the rationale for Colorado to make such a trade? They would save over $4 million, and would receive a prospect or two, but is it realistic to consider a trade happening? From the Rockies' standpoint, that is.

Flight #24
05-23-2005, 02:15 PM
Trading for Todd Helton would be the worst thing this team could do.

Missing some teal there?

Flight #24
05-23-2005, 02:16 PM
I would certainly welcome Todd Helton for Konerko, but what would be the rationale for Colorado to make such a trade? They would save over $4 million, and would receive a prospect or two, but is it realistic to consider a trade happening? From the Rockies' standpoint, that is.

That's just this year's savings. They also get out from under about $100mil through 2011 (minus cash they send with Todd).

PaleHoseGeorge
05-23-2005, 02:16 PM
You know, I didn't even consider that an punishment should be forthcoming, but I like the idea. Have a closed door meeting telling the players to keep it in the house. Announce a one-game bench for Paulie and go forward...

I voted "nothing." I definitely would not announce anything regarding Konerko either. Keep it inside the clubhouse.

OTOH, wouldn't tonight be a great opportunity to audition Everett at first base? Everyone knows Frank is coming back and Dye is heating up...

:wink:

:ozzie
"Paul Konerko is just a bit oowie today after that stabbing attempt on the line shot yesterday. [not from the ass whuppin' he got inside the clubhouse this afternoon.]"

Jjav829
05-23-2005, 02:17 PM
I would certainly welcome Todd Helton for Konerko, but what would be the rationale for Colorado to make such a trade? They would save over $4 million, and would receive a prospect or two, but is it realistic to consider a trade happening? From the Rockies' standpoint, that is.

The Rockies would love to find a team to take Helton's ridiculous contract. They are going to be hard pressed to find that team though.

Mickster
05-23-2005, 02:21 PM
Missing some teal there?

Helton's upcoming salary:

2005: $12.6M
2006: $16.6M
2007: $16.6M
2008: $16.6M
2009: $16.6M
2010: $16.6M
2011: $19.1M
2012: $23.0M Team Option

Apparently, the entire contract can be voided after the 2007 season, though I am unsure if the team, Helton or both can void the deal.

That is some major cheddar there. Don't know if I would take on that kind of salary.

Jjav829
05-23-2005, 02:22 PM
Missing some teal there?

No teal missing. You wanna pay this guy a guaranteed $19.10 million when he is 37 years old? His contract might be the worst in sports. It amazes me that people think KW would have any interest in this guy when we just got down eliminating several high salary players from the roster. The worst move Kenny Williams could make is to trade for Todd Helton. The Rangers learned their lesson with Arod. Hell, why do you people think the Rockies want to trade Helton? It's certainly not because of a lack of production. It's because they've realized their mistake in giving him such a big deal. Now suddenly people want to take on the Rockies mistake? Awful, awful idea. Keep in mind Selig has already said he won't allow big money to be exchanged in deals.

Sxy Mofo
05-23-2005, 02:22 PM
Isn't it possible people here are overreacting to what paul said? You have to wonder if anyone in that clubhouse cares

NorthlakeTom
05-23-2005, 02:25 PM
That's just this year's savings. They also get out from under about $100mil through 2011 (minus cash they send with Todd).

Yes, that makes sense.

That's a huge salary for JR to assume, though. We can't expect him to raise the payroll, so he'd have to eliminate $6-8 million worth of player(s), depending on circumstances. It would be nice if JR spent more money on players, but I don't see a Helton for Konerko trade as being realistic.

(Correct me if I'm misinterpreting you, but $100 million through '11 averages to $16+ mil per year. I agree with everyone who says Konerko isn't worth $8 mil, but is Helton worth $16 mil?)

Jjav829
05-23-2005, 02:25 PM
Helton's upcoming salary:

2005: $12.6M
2006: $16.6M
2007: $16.6M
2008: $16.6M
2009: $16.6M
2010: $16.6M
2011: $19.1M
2012: $23.0M Team Option

Apparently, the entire contract can be voided after the 2007 season, though I am unsure if the team, Helton or both can void the deal.

That is some major cheddar there. Don't know if I would take on that kind of salary.

It's Helton's option to void the deal and he isn't stupid. That contract won't be voided after 2007. I can't believe that people here are considering for a second the idea of the Sox paying a significant portion of that deal. Helton's a good player, but take him out of Coors and this contract looks even worse than it does now - and it looks horrible now.

Flight #24
05-23-2005, 02:30 PM
No teal missing. You wanna pay this guy a guaranteed $19.10 million when he is 37 years old? His contract might be the worst in sports. It amazes me that people think KW would have any interest in this guy when we just got down eliminating several high salary players from the roster. The worst move Kenny Williams could make is to trade for Todd Helton. The Rangers learned their lesson with Arod. Hell, why do you people think the Rockies want to trade Helton? It's certainly not because of a lack of production. It's because they've realized their mistake in giving him such a big deal. Now suddenly people want to take on the Rockies mistake? Awful, awful idea. Keep in mind Selig has already said he won't allow big money to be exchanged in deals.

This was discussed elsewhere at length, but it boils down to a few key points:

1 - in exchange for some decent prospects (not to include BMac, Anderson, Gio), you'd probably get some decent $$$ back from Colorado. If you can get that $$$ to $25mil or so, you can drop his average salary into the $11-12MM range.

2 - Resigning Konerko or a comparable substitute will likely cost you at least $8-10MM, so you'd end up paying 2-4mil/yr for a vastly superior player

3 - Given the current makeup of the team and the current state of the minors, there's not a lot of places that need a dramatic upgrade over the next 2 or so years.

4 - Adding Helton and Thomas for Konerko & Everett to this team gives you a great chance to win the WS this year and next

5 - Any plan like this is based on the increased attendance translating into a significant payroll bump.

NorthlakeTom
05-23-2005, 02:34 PM
Hell, why do you people think the Rockies want to trade Helton? It's certainly not because of a lack of production.
Helton is not off to a blazing start, either. Konerko has 14 more RBI and 6 more HR. Helton is hitting .301, but he's way behind his norm in run production.

RKMeibalane
05-23-2005, 02:34 PM
Fine him for "conduct detremental to the team" and move on. There's no reason for this to continue being a distraction.

Mickster
05-23-2005, 02:39 PM
Helton is not off to a blazing start, either. Konerko has 14 more RBI and 6 more HR. Helton is hitting .301, but he's way behind his norm in run production.

Thank god he's not juicing or his production would have really dropped off! He was only on the "Juice" (creatine) for a while. :cool:

maurice
05-23-2005, 02:39 PM
Possible Helton deals have been discussed here and elsewhere for quite some time. Obviously, Colorado would have to give up tons of cash to trade Helton to anybody. They've done something similar before.

FWIW, this past weekend, I spoke with a long-time baseball observer from Denver who thinks a Helton + lotsa cash for prospects deal is likely, because Rockies ownership wants to dump as much of the contract as possible but realizes they'll be on the hook for a lot of it in any event.

Then again, perhaps I'm just channeling ChiSoxTony. :wink:

cheeses_h_rice
05-23-2005, 02:41 PM
Isn't it possible people here are overreacting to what paul said? You have to wonder if anyone in that clubhouse cares

Oh, stop being so reasonable and level-headed.

:)

The Racehorse
05-23-2005, 02:45 PM
PK's comments are a tempest in a teapot... jeez.

Frater Perdurabo
05-23-2005, 02:49 PM
This was discussed elsewhere at length, but it boils down to a few key points:

1 - in exchange for some decent prospects (not to include BMac, Anderson, Gio), you'd probably get some decent $$$ back from Colorado. If you can get that $$$ to $25mil or so, you can drop his average salary into the $11-12MM range.

2 - Resigning Konerko or a comparable substitute will likely cost you at least $8-10MM, so you'd end up paying 2-4mil/yr for a vastly superior player

3 - Given the current makeup of the team and the current state of the minors, there's not a lot of places that need a dramatic upgrade over the next 2 or so years.

4 - Adding Helton and Thomas for Konerko & Everett to this team gives you a great chance to win the WS this year and next

5 - Any plan like this is based on the increased attendance translating into a significant payroll bump.

Excellent summary and agreed. Of course it's still just deeppink pipedream speculation, but that's what I'd do if I were KW. I'd also wait until after Frank gets back before puling the trigger on a trade to send Paulie and Everett out.

In the meantime, if I were Ozzie, I'd:

privately meet with Konerko to fine him $10,000 for conduct unbecoming of a member of the Chicago White Sox and tell him he will sit on the bench for an upcoming game (tell the public it's to "rest" him against a tough pitcher) against a pitcher who gives Paulie fits;

privately meet with Konerko and Uribe together to have Konerko apologize, shake hands and have a good cry; and

hold a closed-door team meeting to explain that everything is OK between Paulie and Uribe and WHY YOU MUST NEVER ALLOW ORAL DIARRHEA TO STRIKE WHEN THE MEDIA ASKS YOU ABOUT A TEAMMATE!

SoxWillWin
05-23-2005, 02:49 PM
Looks like everyone wants us to replace both corners now huh.......

:whatever:

Jjav829
05-23-2005, 02:49 PM
This was discussed elsewhere at length, but it boils down to a few key points:

1 - in exchange for some decent prospects (not to include BMac, Anderson, Gio), you'd probably get some decent $$$ back from Colorado. If you can get that $$$ to $25mil or so, you can drop his average salary into the $11-12MM range.

The problem with that is that money=prospects. In other words, the more money you ask Colorado to pick up, the better prospects they'll want in return. If a team was willing to take all of his salary, I'd bet Colorado would give Helton away for near nothing. Every million you ask for them to pick up increases the talent they're going to ask for in return. By the time you work your way up to $25-$30 million, you're talking about elite prospects. Personally, I don't believe they'll pick up that much of the deal. I think you're looking at more like $10-$15 million over the course of the deal. That still leaves the Sox paying a first baseman $19 million when he's 38 years old. Helton's contract is awful. It's just not worth it. Like I said, he's still a good player but not a great player away from Coors. Few players are worth the money Helton is making. Helton isn't one of them.

Flight #24
05-23-2005, 02:54 PM
The problem with that is that money=prospects. In other words, the more money you ask Colorado to pick up, the better prospects they'll want in return. If a team was willing to take all of his salary, I'd bet Colorado would give Helton away for near nothing. Every million you ask for them to pick up increases the talent they're going to ask for in return. By the time you work your way up to $25-$30 million, you're talking about elite prospects. Personally, I don't believe they'll pick up that much of the deal. I think you're looking at more like $10-$15 million over the course of the deal. That still leaves the Sox paying a first baseman $19 million over the course of a deal. Helton's contract is awful. It's just not worth it. Like I said, he's still a good player but not a great players away from Coors. Few players are worth the money Helton is making. Helton isn't one of them.

The question is what type of $$$ you'd get back for a package of say: Sweeney, Tracey, Rogowski, Young? They took on $52mil in salaries and sent cash to get rid of Hampton. Helton will be worth more, but Paulie plus the package above is a nice return for them.

And as for his "away from Coors" #s, he's still IIRC a .400OBP / .300+BA / .950+OPS guy on the road. That's pretty good.

tebman
05-23-2005, 02:56 PM
Oh, stop being so reasonable and level-headed.

:)

:rolling:

Frater Perdurabo
05-23-2005, 03:02 PM
The question is what type of $$$ you'd get back for a package of say: Sweeney, Tracey, Rogowski, Young? They took on $52mil in salaries and sent cash to get rid of Hampton. Helton will be worth more, but Paulie plus the package above is a nice return for them.

And as for his "away from Coors" #s, he's still IIRC a .400OBP / .300+BA / .950+OPS guy on the road. That's pretty good.

Plus, in our admittedly pipedream speculation, Colorado gets Konerko and Everett (both of whom are free agents after this year) in addition to prospects. They can offer arbitration to both. If they still leave, they get additional compensatory draft picks.

Jjav829
05-23-2005, 03:06 PM
The question is what type of $$$ you'd get back for a package of say: Sweeney, Tracey, Rogowski, Young? They took on $52mil in salaries and sent cash to get rid of Hampton. Helton will be worth more, but Paulie plus the package above is a nice return for them.

And as for his "away from Coors" #s, he's still IIRC a .400OBP / .300+BA / .950+OPS guy on the road. That's pretty good.

As I said before, I don't believe they'll be picking up more than $15 million. The one reason they would do so is to avoid paying him over $16 million when he's over 35. Which comes back to my point of why his contract is horrible. It's not just the overall money Helton is being paid, it's the length of his contract. Helton will be 32 at the end of the year. His contract doesn't run out until he turns 39. That's an awful contract for the team that has to pay it.

It's easy for fans to just look at what Helton will do for the next few years, but I guarantee you Kenny is looking at the future and the fact that Helton will be making $16 million when he's 36 and 37, and $19 million when he's 38. I go back to the Rangers and Arod. They signed him to a horrible deal and ultimately had to swallow a big chunk of it just to get out from the rest of that deal. All over baseball teams are looking to get out of these bad deals, yet we're looking to take one on? Hell, if we're gonna go this road, why not consider Manny? He has an awful deal as well, but Manny's quite possibly the best hitter of this generation not named Bonds.

Thankfully, I think this whole conversation is pointless because I don't think Kenny would even consider taking on such a bad contract.

voodoochile
05-23-2005, 03:07 PM
I voted "nothing." I definitely would not announce anything regarding Konerko either. Keep it inside the clubhouse.

Sorry if I was unclear. I meant announce it to the team. Let the media make what they will of it. What the heck, they love a good speculation, because they can turn around and talk out both sides of their mouths...

PicktoCLick72
05-23-2005, 03:09 PM
THe Helton trade will not happen. Period. End of story. Stop making this like Konerko shot Uribe in the face. THe only reason people are making this a big deal is the do not think Paulie should be on this team. THis arguement is stupid.

Flight #24
05-23-2005, 03:19 PM
As I said before, I don't believe they'll be picking up more than $15 million. The one reason they would do so is to avoid paying him over $16 million when he's over 35. Which comes back to my point of why his contract is horrible. It's not just the overall money Helton is being paid, it's the length of his contract. Helton will be 32 at the end of the year. His contract doesn't run out until he turns 39. That's an awful contract for the team that has to pay it.

It's easy for fans to just look at what Helton will do for the next few years, but I guarantee you Kenny is looking at the future and the fact that Helton will be making $16 million when he's 36 and 37, and $19 million when he's 38. I go back to the Rangers and Arod. They signed him to a horrible deal and ultimately had to swallow a big chunk of it just to get out from the rest of that deal. All over baseball teams are looking to get out of these bad deals, yet we're looking to take one on? Hell, if we're gonna go this road, why not consider Manny? He has an awful deal as well, but Manny's quite possibly the best hitter of this generation not named Bonds.

Thankfully, I think this whole conversation is pointless because I don't think Kenny would even consider taking on such a bad contract.

FWIW, Helton's EqA over the past 5 years is .332, Manny's is .346. Vlady's is .324. I'm not a stathead, but that's the first "park-adjusted" thing I could find.

And there's a huge difference in getting ARod and building around him and adding a guy like Helton to a team that's already fairly balanced and doing well. It's certainly a pipedream, and if it's $15mil that you'd get back it makes no sense. But if the Rox want to get rid of him, they know it's going to cost them - so to get a pretty good prospect like Sweeney and maybe another decent guy or 2 I think you could get $20+.

For this year, adding Helton makes you possibly the WS favorite. Same for next year (and you'd have a pretty good attendance/revenue bump to pay for him). By then hopefully you have a payroll more commensurate with a large market, and you also still have relatively cheap guys at a # of positions in ARow, Pods, Uribe, Anderson, Fields/Crede, BMac, Gio.

It's a huge $$$, but I don't think it's as financially restrictive for this team as it would be for most because of the way the Sox are constructed and the somewhat unique situation they have where sustained success can reap huge financial benefits for them and help raise the payroll.

TDog
05-23-2005, 04:09 PM
... THis arguement is stupid.

Indeed it is.

I don't think anything should "be done" with Konerko. This isn't a big deal.

soxwon
05-23-2005, 04:15 PM
you guys are crazy- dont mess with anything- konerkos gonna hit 40+ again.

why trade him? dont trade anyone.
my god we are the best in baseball, this may be our most ballanced team EVER.

frank n paulie will be a devistating tandem.

leave the SOX alone.

who cares what konerko said, its just his opinion, big deal.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-23-2005, 04:21 PM
:Foulke29
"I say Konerko should be drawn and quartered!

"Then call him Cheesestick!"

"And finally, Turkey Leg!"

"Now back to my mega-tirade about "classism" at the ballpark..."

:wink:

SluggersAway
05-23-2005, 04:41 PM
Konerko admitted he didn't even see the play. He just answered a hypothetical and that was taken by the beat writers and spun around into something bigger than it really was. As for the trade possibility, get real.

seanpmurphy
05-23-2005, 04:45 PM
I don't have much to offer in the way of al the trade speculation. I know Konerko is getting better but Dye and AJ are starting to heat up. Maybe PK needs to move down in the order for a couple of games?

JB98
05-23-2005, 04:54 PM
I can't believe eight people actually voted for a trade. We're 31-13, folks. We ain't making any trades.

A closed-door ass chewing from Ozzie would fit the bill as Konerko's punishment, although I wouldn't object if Paulie gets benched for one game.

FarWestChicago
05-23-2005, 04:57 PM
Where's the "fine the crap out of Mr. Media Attention" option?

voodoochile
05-23-2005, 05:25 PM
Where's the "fine the crap out of Mr. Media Attention" option?

I voted for a one game benching, but maybe a fine is better. Don't most clubhouses have a fine jar where money goes toward an end of the season party? I say Paulie just bought a couple of cases of Dom...

NorthlakeTom
05-23-2005, 05:38 PM
We're assuming an awful lot here. I remember Konerko saying something about Frank years ago, but it's been so long, I couldn't tell you anything about it. It's not like Paul makes these statements to the media every day. We don't know what was asked, in what context, or if the reporter set him up.

For all we know, Paul may have given the reporter the only answer he would accept. Paul may have just told him what he wanted to hear, to get him off his back. Ozzie does the same thing at times.

I don't put any stock into those three lines from the Sun-Times. And if you'll notice, Paul did not mention Uribe by name. Someone stated that Konerko was responding to a hypothetical, and that very well may be true.

MHOUSE
05-23-2005, 05:40 PM
Worry about next year and contracts and saving money is for rebuilding clubs and guys out of contention. We're the best team in baseball so keep it together and don't rock the boat. Paulie has led our team since 2001 when the changing of the guard from the Frank Thomas era began. He has produced, played defense, been clutch, and aside from a few iffy quotes, has been a good clubhouse guy and good to the fans. Paulie isn't going anywhere in 2005.

White Sox-Cardinals, WS Game 7, bottom 9, 2 out, Izzy has them loaded in a 4-4 game. The entire Cell is chanting "Paulie, Paulie, Paulie.....!"

StrTrkker
05-23-2005, 05:48 PM
No teal missing. You wanna pay this guy a guaranteed $19.10 million when he is 37 years old? His contract might be the worst in sports. It amazes me that people think KW would have any interest in this guy when we just got down eliminating several high salary players from the roster. The worst move Kenny Williams could make is to trade for Todd Helton. The Rangers learned their lesson with Arod. Hell, why do you people think the Rockies want to trade Helton? It's certainly not because of a lack of production. It's because they've realized their mistake in giving him such a big deal. Now suddenly people want to take on the Rockies mistake? Awful, awful idea. Keep in mind Selig has already said he won't allow big money to be exchanged in deals.

I agree 100%...

Lets keep Paulie and ride into the playoffs with what we have.

Sxy Mofo
05-23-2005, 05:51 PM
People like to complain how the media blows things out of proportion... and they do. But damn if people aren't doing the same thing and more, here. the fines, trades, etc. If it's a big deal, the O.Z. will handle it. But sadly to say to some of the guys here, it's not.

Ron Karkovice
05-23-2005, 06:13 PM
Big deal. I'm sure Paulie and Uribe will clear things up between them and they will MOVE ON- just like you all should with your feelings on the issue. A respected professional like Konerko doesn't need to be slapped on the wrist, he just needs to get out there vs. LAA and do some serious damage with his bat.

cwsox
05-23-2005, 06:49 PM
Let Ozzie handle the matter internally.

And stop all the trade talk. End of story.

Mountains out of molehills here, folks.

thank you.

I was beginning to despair until i read your post.

owensmouth
05-23-2005, 06:58 PM
The real question is: What should be done about a woefully underperforming Uribe?

SOXfnNlansing
05-23-2005, 07:10 PM
Helton's upcoming salary:

2005: $12.6M
2006: $16.6M
2007: $16.6M
2008: $16.6M
2009: $16.6M
2010: $16.6M
2011: $19.1M
2012: $23.0M Team Option

Apparently, the entire contract can be voided after the 2007 season, though I am unsure if the team, Helton or both can void the deal.

That is some major cheddar there. Don't know if I would take on that kind of salary. Didn't we trade for Steve Sax and get burned? Doesn't anyone remember being stuck with Dan Pasqua for those last 2 years? I think Baltimore just got finished paying for Albert Belle and he's been out of baseball for 5 years.

Fredsox
05-23-2005, 07:23 PM
I think we need to remember that Paulie is one of the hardest working ballplayers that we'll ever see, and I don't have an issue with his comments. He's certainly earned the right to say what he wants and if Uribe has an issue with it I'm sure he'll let Paulie know.

Let's move on, we have a World Series to win. This talk of trading Konerko for Helton is wide of the point and pretty ludicrous anyway. We built this team by not having anyone over $10 million. That gave us a lot of cash to get other really good guys (AJ, Hernandez, Iguchi). Let's keep our eye on the prize.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-23-2005, 07:42 PM
I think we need to remember that Paulie is one of the hardest working ballplayers that we'll ever see, and I don't have an issue with his comments. He's certainly earned the right to say what he wants and if Uribe has an issue with it I'm sure he'll let Paulie know.

Another fan of Konerko's "hang dog" routine?

I agree he has been perfecting it for quite a few years on the South Side. Either he's ****ing up and doing the "hang dog" routine, or he's on a tear and calling out his teammates through the media. The man is bullet-proof with his tireless defenders either way.

Date my daughter, Pauleee! Date my daughter!

:wink:

balke
05-23-2005, 07:52 PM
WHOA, Helton's Salary is CRAZY! I had no idea.

Fredsox
05-23-2005, 08:06 PM
Another fan of Konerko's "hang dog" routine?

I agree he has been perfecting it for quite a few years on the South Side. Either he's ****ing up and doing the "hang dog" routine, or he's on a tear and calling out his teammates through the media. The man is bullet-proof with his tireless defenders either way.

Date my daughter, Pauleee! Date my daughter!

:wink:


First of all my daughter is seeing someone and I'm not in the habit of arranging her social calendar. The guy's not a ballplayer and he doesn't make much money, but she seems to like him so that works for me.

Secondly, Koenrko is a leader and a worker. He plays a very steady first base, he hits a pretty fair amount of HR and drives in a bunch (even this year), so what's not to like? He's a winner. Accept it. People whine and bitch about candy-ass millionaire ballplayers who show no work ethic, then they get guy like Konerko and they want to dump him the first time he speaks his mind. That's how the cubs ruin ballplayers. Next you'll want to trade Buehrle and rationalize it because his trade value has never been higher.

kevingrt
05-23-2005, 08:08 PM
I think we need to remember that Paulie is one of the hardest working ballplayers that we'll ever see, and I don't have an issue with his comments. He's certainly earned the right to say what he wants and if Uribe has an issue with it I'm sure he'll let Paulie know.

Let's move on, we have a World Series to win. This talk of trading Konerko for Helton is wide of the point and pretty ludicrous anyway. We built this team by not having anyone over $10 million. That gave us a lot of cash to get other really good guys (AJ, Hernandez, Iguchi). Let's keep our eye on the prize.

But still you have to understand the fact that Paulie called out Uribe to the media. Paulie I know has enough balls to have confronted Uribe face to face about the issue, so why didn't he? It just doesn't make sense. We know how the media can twist things and a lot of times clubhouse chemistry goes down the drain due to something the media prints. Oh well, hopefully Paulie and the rest of the Sox learn from this incident, minor though.

mccoydp
05-23-2005, 08:14 PM
Keep him. Paul is a solid player. I don't care about what he says, I just care about how he plays. He had been in a slump for a long stretch, but he seems to be battling his way out of it. Sorry I'm not regurgitating his stats, but I am convinced that his woes will end when Big Frank gets back in the lineup.
Besides, I have a Sox shirt with Konerko's name and number on the back, and I just got it in December, so I can't shelve it yet!:D:

PaleHoseGeorge
05-23-2005, 08:20 PM
...Paulie I know has enough balls to have confronted Uribe face to face about the issue, so why didn't he? It just doesn't make sense. We know how the media can twist things ....

Can I ask a completely sincere question to you, Fredsox, or any other of The Loyal Order of the Water Buffalo and Paul Konerko...

How do you know Konerko has enough balls to confront Uribe? Did he have enough balls to confront Frank Thomas three years ago without going to the media first? No.

How did you determine the media twisted what Konerko said? There are not less than two different beat reporters that got the same direct quote from Konerko and reported it the same way in today's edition?

How do you know Paul Konerko isn't hanging his head after each GIDP simply to prevent Sox Fans from getting down on him?

How do you know Paul Konerko doesn't talk to the media just to keep up his personal popularity, teammates be damned?

These are legitimate questions, and I haven't a clue why this guy gets a pass for what he says and does.

Fredsox
05-23-2005, 08:23 PM
But still you have to understand the fact that Paulie called out Uribe to the media. Paulie I know has enough balls to have confronted Uribe face to face about the issue, so why didn't he? It just doesn't make sense. We know how the media can twist things and a lot of times clubhouse chemistry goes down the drain due to something the media prints. Oh well, hopefully Paulie and the rest of the Sox learn from this incident, minor though.

So what? Big deal. He didn't like what a reporter told him Uribe did, and he said if it's true he didn't like it. So our answer, according to the bulk of repsondents on this thread, is to trade him for a $16 million salary? Let's screw up the best record in baseball because Konerko spoke his mind, and let's do it in such a way as to screw up our salary situation for the next 3 years. Fabulous idea guys.

Do we have something aginst winning here?

Daver
05-23-2005, 08:24 PM
Clean up men that bat .210 are hard to find.

A. Cavatica
05-23-2005, 08:27 PM
None of the above. I would trade him if I could improve the team -- say, as ballast to offset the acquisition of Todd Helton -- but that's a pipe dream. He should get a lecture from Ozzie behind closed doors, and apologize to Uribe, and that's the end of it.

Whitesox029
05-23-2005, 08:32 PM
Let Ozzie handle the matter internally.

And stop all the trade talk. End of story.

Mountains out of molehills here, folks.
Send this to What's the Score. As I remember, that's where unfounded trade rumors and stupid trade ideas are supposed to go. Teams that are 31-13 don't make trades. Period. End of story.

Randar68
05-23-2005, 08:32 PM
Clean up men that bat .210 are hard to find.


LOL! Don't worry Daver, his "good half season" is just around the corner... ugh.

Fredsox
05-23-2005, 08:35 PM
Send this to What's the Score. As I remember, that's where unfounded trade rumors and stupid trade ideas are supposed to go. Teams that are 31-13 don't make trades. Period. End of story.

Yeah, let's put it next to the thread about trading McCarthy.

Whitesox029
05-23-2005, 08:37 PM
Yeah, let's put it next to the thread about trading McCarthy.
That's still hanging around the clubhouse? That should have been in WtS a long time ago. Don't fall asleep on me here mods.

If I see one more trade thread I'm going to vomit.

Daver
05-23-2005, 08:42 PM
That's still hanging around the clubhouse? That should have been in WtS a long time ago. Don't fall asleep on me here mods.

If I see one more trade thread I'm going to vomit.

Your telling me how to do my job?

owensmouth
05-23-2005, 08:44 PM
Your telling me how to do my job?ELEPHANT GUN TIME!!!

That'll put it in perspective

faneidde
05-23-2005, 09:32 PM
14 people think the Sox should trade Paulie because of comments he made about Uribe's play on Lee. It looks like its the bash Paulie season around here, so I won't even get into the fact that he is second in the AL in walks and no one around him was hitting early in the year. I'd just like to focus on the 14 people who want to trade a guy because of something as miniscule as this. This thread sucks, the trade McCarthy thread sucks, and all the Paulie bashing threads suck too.

Randar68
05-23-2005, 10:34 PM
14 people think the Sox should trade Paulie because of comments he made about Uribe's play on Lee. It looks like its the bash Paulie season around here, so I won't even get into the fact that he is second in the AL in walks and no one around him was hitting early in the year. I'd just like to focus on the 14 people who want to trade a guy because of something as miniscule as this. This thread sucks, the trade McCarthy thread sucks, and all the Paulie bashing threads suck too.

Have you been in a coma? People have been dissing Pauly for 2-3 weeks easy. This has nothing to do with his comments for most of the voters I'd guess.

Whitesox029
05-23-2005, 11:39 PM
Your telling me how to do my job?
No, this is why you're a moderator and I'm not. Maybe, though, you could explain to me exactly why the stupid "Trade McCarthy" thread is not in What's the Score. I can see with this one since it was hijacked a bit, and the actual thread topic is not about a trade, but again, I was under the impression that we were cracking down on ridiculous trade rumors and ideas. Instead of accusing me of condescending to you, enlighten me, and it will avoid an ugly situation.

FarWestChicago
05-23-2005, 11:42 PM
No, this is why you're a moderator and I'm not. Maybe, though, you could explain to me exactly why the stupid "Trade McCarthy" thread is not in What's the Score. I can see with this one since it was hijacked a bit, and the actual thread topic is not about a trade, but again, I was under the impression that we were cracking down on ridiculous trade rumors and ideas. Instead of accusing me of condescending to you, enlighten me, and it will avoid an ugly situation.Or you could just drop it.

Whitesox029
05-23-2005, 11:52 PM
Or you could just drop it.
Yes, that could also work.
Must resist temptation....
http://mullings.com/honeymooners.jpg
"Pins and needles, needles and pins
A happy man is a man who grins...
Now what am I mad about?"

[chanting to self]
WSI is not a democracy...WSI is not a democracy...WSI is not a democracy
*WHEW*...
Time to resume normal posting...

Flight #24
05-24-2005, 09:20 AM
Have you been in a coma? People have been dissing Pauly for 2-3 weeks easy. This has nothing to do with his comments for most of the voters I'd guess.

Ding ding ding ding ding!!!!

You don't trade Konerko because of his comments, you trade Konerko because he's inconsistent, because when he's hot he's very good, but not great, and you if you can get a better player. That he runs his mouth to reporters is low down on the list, but it does add a slight bit o'fuel to the fire.

More to the point, you do NOT give Konerko an 8-10mil extension. If he turns things around, fine, keep him this year. But how can you make him your offensive cornerstone (i.e. making the most $$$) when you're not confident that he's not going to hit .200 for 2-3 months?

And don't even get me started on the idea of "letting Frank go and putting that savings towards resigning Konerko". Translated as "letting a great hitter go so that we can further overpay a much lesser hitter on a long-term deal".

mccoydp
05-24-2005, 09:56 AM
Or you could just drop it.

These are the wisest words of the day.

Alanzo XXXVIII
05-24-2005, 10:18 AM
This posted on CNNSI's "Truth & Rumors" Page (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/scorecard/05/23/truth.rumors.mlb/index.html):

Wouldn't it be nice if Sox Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf opened his wallet to sign free-agent-to-be Paul Konerko? It would have been done by now if Konerko played for the Cubs, but Reinsdorf's ownership group doesn't have the resources of Tribune Co., and just about everybody in the Sox's clubhouse understands that.
-- Chicago Tribune

daveeym
05-24-2005, 10:20 AM
Let Ozzie handle the matter internally.

And stop all the trade talk. End of story.

Mountains out of molehills here, folks. No ****, totally agree. If you want to punish paulie do it Ozzie Style, Have him elephant run down the Gautlet with everyone getting a whack on his hindside.

Or Kangaroo Court him. Which they've probably already done or Judge Buerhle will be doing today.

faneidde
05-24-2005, 12:36 PM
Have you been in a coma? People have been dissing Pauly for 2-3 weeks easy. This has nothing to do with his comments for most of the voters I'd guess.
Read the first post of the thread.

steranim
05-24-2005, 03:58 PM
So much back and forth about Paulie Kon-vict over the last couple days ... I say ... put it to a vote!

I say keep him ... I like his fire and emotion, he is streaky (it's baseball) and **** the media (say what you think).

PorkChopExpress
05-24-2005, 04:31 PM
You remove Paulie and you are removing a huge part of this team's chemistry, even with his dumb*** comments to the press. Paulie is a good guy, a good hitter, and can scoop bad throws at first with the best of 'em. You don't get rid of him now when chemistry is a big reason this team is doing so well.

MRKARNO
05-24-2005, 04:41 PM
If we could replace him with Helton with the Rox fronting a decent amount of money, I would do it in an instant, but I'm not sure what capable other options are really out there.

I think if he was the best option out there, then we should definitely keep him, assuming he's looking for less than Richie Sexson money (or similar at very most).

doublem23
05-24-2005, 04:46 PM
I vote no one ever calls him Paulie Kon-vict again.

Ever.

I don't mind him around, someone just needs to tape his big, fat mouth shut.

kevingrt
05-24-2005, 04:48 PM
I vote no one ever calls him Paulie Kon-vict again.

Ever.

I don't mind him around, someone just needs to tape his big, fat mouth shut.

DoubleM... you couldn't have put it more perfectly

fquaye149
05-24-2005, 05:06 PM
no matter what I said in the other thread, I still want him around for his leadership (I assume) and his HR and RBI.

However, I am very very frustrated with his verbal diarrhea and self-importance right now.

voodoochile
05-24-2005, 05:08 PM
So much back and forth about Paulie Kon-vict over the last couple days ... I say ... put it to a vote!

I say keep him ... I like his fire and emotion, he is streaky (it's baseball) and **** the media (say what you think).

Well, it has been put to a vote. I merged your thread in with that thread so you can see the results and get a chance to vote yourself.

Infallible
05-24-2005, 06:08 PM
I say we give him to the Cubs for nothing.....

Whitesox029
05-24-2005, 10:12 PM
I say we give him to the Cubs for nothing.....
I almost vomited when I read this. Seriously. I thought we had more brains around here than this. I sure hope you meant to use teal.

Infallible
05-24-2005, 10:26 PM
oh come on man, when is that a serious option at any moment in history of mankind?

Whitesox029
05-24-2005, 10:33 PM
oh come on man, when is that a serious option at any moment in history of mankind?
In that case...
:tealpolice:
:?::rolleyes:

AZChiSoxFan
05-25-2005, 01:09 PM
no matter what I said in the other thread, I still want him around for his leadership (I assume) and his HR and RBI.

However, I am very very frustrated with his verbal diarrhea and self-importance right now.

After some of your other posts, I appreciate you posting this. As you know from my other posts, I am a fan of PK but I too am disappointed in what he said on Sunday. Despite the fact that I am a fan of PK, I think it will be in the Sox best interests to let him walk after the season, given the price he will command in FA.