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NSSoxFan
05-22-2005, 04:39 PM
Rant 'n Rave here.

Good job by McCarthy!

Great series JD, Konerko!

Off to Anaheim!

mealfred13
05-22-2005, 04:40 PM
Viz........

nasox
05-22-2005, 04:40 PM
Hopefully we won't rip into Ozzie for a mistake that wasn't his fault. Go get 'em boys, Angels are going to hell!

krohnjw
05-22-2005, 04:41 PM
Great job by McCarthy....to bad we didn't come through when we needed to. Let's move on and get ready for Anaheim/Los Angeles/Whatever city they are in now....

SoxFan48
05-22-2005, 04:41 PM
Excellent start of MLB career by Brian McCarthy.

Great series by Konerko and Dye.

And, yes, Vizcaino is worthless

Dub25
05-22-2005, 04:41 PM
Sox can't win them all and the Cubs can't lose them all. Oh well, at least Dusty left Prior out there for a solid 130 pitch effort. I was hoping the Sox could comeback and win so the Cub fans could've cried about Prior being out to long.

mealfred13
05-22-2005, 04:41 PM
On second thought, I don't know how the hell that Dubois hit left the park. The pitch was down and away, and he looked like he got under it and hit it off the end of the bat... Lucky bastards.

NSSoxFan
05-22-2005, 04:41 PM
Hopefully we won't rip into Ozzie for a mistake that wasn't his fault. Go get 'em boys, Angels are going to hell!

Viz made a bad pitch at the worse time. Not Ozzie's fault IMO.

CanBuehrleWait
05-22-2005, 04:41 PM
A sweep wouldve been so nice. Mop Up duty for you chump :angry:

Kogs35
05-22-2005, 04:41 PM
Bmac:bandance: :gulp: dye,tad,paulie:gulp: :bandance: and viz:angry: :angry: . all i have to say is bleh. off to anaheim goodbye flubbers till the end of june

chisoxmike
05-22-2005, 04:41 PM
Eh... we took 2 out 3, thats all you can ask. A sweep would've been amazing.

A few things

-BMac was impressive
-I knew the game was over when Vizcanano came in.
- Why was Willie Harris pinch hitting? You have Timo and Carl as left handed hitters on the bench. ***?

TornLabrum
05-22-2005, 04:41 PM
You really can't fault Ozzie for pulling McCarthy when he couldn't lose the game, but you can fault Vizcaino for blowing this one. I wanted this one too much I think.

DoggPhood
05-22-2005, 04:42 PM
Cubs barely escaped that one.

Impressed by McCarthy. JD and Konerko starting to come around.

Two out of three in any series is enough for me.

However, we should've scored one run in that inning when Uribe and Crede popped out in the infield, which would've meant Paulie's HR would've tied it.

Woulda shoulda coulda.

On the one hand, Vizcaino was terrible. On the other hand, that ball wasn't hit that hard, it just sorta floated outta there. But it was nice to hit three HRs off or Prior.

Let's take care of business in the Vlad-less Anaheim.

thomas35
05-22-2005, 04:42 PM
how was it not ozzies fault? mccarthy was pitching a very good game so why take him out? screw ozzie

White Sox Josh
05-22-2005, 04:42 PM
Off to the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim in Southern California right near Inglewood close to San Diego.

whtsx1959
05-22-2005, 04:43 PM
so close!

The sweep would have been nice.

We'll just have to wait until June 24-26

Kogs35
05-22-2005, 04:43 PM
Off to the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim in Southern California right near Inglewood close to San Diego.

u forgot of the OC :D:

NorthlakeTom
05-22-2005, 04:43 PM
The Sox should have swept, but we won the series. If the Brewers hold on, we'll have picked up a game on the Twinks. Productive weekend all around.

What to do with Vizcaino? I don't know, but perhaps he should go to Charlotte when El Duque comes off the DL. Keep McCarthy for spot starts, and use him out of the bullpen. That may not be a good idea from McCarthy's standpoint, but I don't want to see Vizcaino in any more tight games.

Dub25
05-22-2005, 04:43 PM
how was it not ozzies fault? mccarthy was pitching a very good game so why take him out? screw ozzie

Because Manny's little brother had been hitting him hard.

SoxFan48
05-22-2005, 04:43 PM
Viz made a bad pitch at the worse time. Not Ozzie's fault IMO.

It was important to get McCarthy out of the game with positive feelings intact. Viz (is that is nickname now) is doing nothing for us. The RHP side of our bullpen is only two deep. This is a need we can fill by midseason.

NSSoxFan
05-22-2005, 04:44 PM
so close!

The sweep would have been nice.

We'll just have to wait until June 24-26

I predict a sweep for our Sox when the flubbers come to our house.

chisoxmike
05-22-2005, 04:44 PM
how was it not ozzies fault? mccarthy was pitching a very good game so why take him out? screw ozzie

Because Aramais Rameriez was hitting McCarthy hard all day. It was a smart move just not a smart move by putting Vizcanao in a pressure situation.

White Sox Josh
05-22-2005, 04:44 PM
Positives:
-McCarthy
-Shingo
-Dye

Negatives:
-Ozzie using Vizcaino
-Vizcaino sucks
-not good in the clutch

voodoochile
05-22-2005, 04:45 PM
If the only reason to pull McCarthy was to let him leave with a positive vibe and no chance to lose, it was a poor decision. He still looked sharp and had only thrown 78 pitches.

Still, the Sox had their chances (AJ's liner which doubled off Rowand) and didn't get it done.

Can't win them all, but the way they lost this one kind of sucks...

ode to veeck
05-22-2005, 04:45 PM
On second thought, I don't know how the hell that Dubois hit left the park. The pitch was down and away, and he looked like he got under it and hit it off the end of the bat... Lucky bastards.

He popped it up into the wind blowing out to right center, it carried the ball well into the stands.

If there's no wind, it woulda been a deep pop fly for an out

nasox
05-22-2005, 04:45 PM
Positives:
-McCarthy
-Shingo
-Dye

Negatives:
-Ozzie using Vizcaino
-Vizcaino sucks
-not good in the clutch


Plus Paulie is a positive.

mealfred13
05-22-2005, 04:46 PM
So who's up for leaving McCarthy here as a starter and moving El Duque into the bullpen to replace Vizcaino?

NorthlakeTom
05-22-2005, 04:47 PM
Hopefully we won't rip into Ozzie for a mistake that wasn't his fault. Go get 'em boys, Angels are going to hell!
At least we catch a break with Guerrero on the DL.

MRKARNO
05-22-2005, 04:47 PM
Positives:

-McCarthy looked awesome and like he deserves to stay up way longer than he's going to. He had some close calls with the longball, but I think he'll learn to pitch a bit lower in the zone so that he gives up a few less HRs than he might otherwise.

-PK hit one out. That's always nice to see

-Dye is totally on! He ended the game in ugly fashion, but I'm not too concerned about that going from here on out

-Tadahito went opposite field with the solo shot to tie the game when things were looking really bleak.

Negatives:

-Vizcaino hasnt proven he can be used in close games. He's very HR-prone and I dont think he can really help us. It's a tossup between him and Cotts as to who I trust less.

-McCarthy came out too early in my view. Even though it is true that Ramirez hit him hard the first few at bats, I still think that knowing McCarthy's pitch count and the way he was pitching that he shoulda stayed in

-Shingo's still having control problems and those better get worked out sooner rather than later.

If we had a better reliever coming into the game than Vizcaino I wouldnt have minded the move so much, but I think that too much confidence is being placed in a reliever so prone to giving up the longball and another with control problems (Cotts).

Still you cant be too upset that they were in the game in the ninth inning, despite the DuBois homer. Still only 13 losses as compared to 31 wins. Let's get the California Angels of Los Angeles tomorrow as we send Garland to the hill.

White Sox Josh
05-22-2005, 04:47 PM
Vizcaino should be in mop up and only be used in games where we have a huge lead or are down by a lot of runs. Shingo should replace Vizcaino because he isn't pitching well right now and shingo is. By the way that swing by Burnitz was pretty funny. He had no clue up there.

Dub25
05-22-2005, 04:47 PM
So who's up for leaving McCarthy here as a starter and moving El Duque into the bullpen to replace Vizcaino?

I'll wait until his next start vs. Texas. The Cubs are not exactly knocking the cover off the ball.

Kogs35
05-22-2005, 04:47 PM
The Sox should have swept, but we won the series. If the Brewers hold on, we'll have picked up a game on the Twinks. Productive weekend all around.

What to do with Vizcaino? I don't know, but perhaps he should go to Charlotte when El Duque comes off the DL. Keep McCarty for spot starts, and use him out of the bullpen. That may not be a good idea from McCarty's standpoint, but I don't want to see Vizcaino in any more tight games.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/media/thumbnails/columnist/2003-05/7622751.jpg (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-phil-rogers,1,7454306.columnist?coll=cs-home-utility)





" I say the white sox should trade Luis Vizcaino to the dodgers for eric Gange"

CHISOXFAN13
05-22-2005, 04:47 PM
I guess I'll be the first to crucify Uribe. Vizcaino didn't get the job done, but neither did Uribe with a runner on third and less than two outs.

He gets Konerko in and we are still playing.

All in all, a very good weekend. It took their ace to beat us when our AAA call-up was as impressive.

VenturaFan23
05-22-2005, 04:48 PM
it just sucks to lose on a Sunday because it leaves a bad taste in your mouth starting the work week. But taking 2 out of 3 ain't bad!

Dibbs
05-22-2005, 04:49 PM
If the only reason to pull McCarthy was to let him leave with a positive vibe and no chance to lose, it was a poor decision. He still looked sharp and had only thrown 78 pitches.

...

Agreed....and I guarantee you McCarthy feels worse for being pulled and then having Viz mess everything up...he would've felt better to stay in the game.

Rocklive99
05-22-2005, 04:49 PM
It shouldn't, but this game kind of rubbed me the wrong way. Both this game and a game vs Anaheim (without Vlad) mean the same in the standings, and any thought about wildcard ramifications is bs to me, plus this would make McCarthy's next start against a red hot Texas team. Some here were arguing if this was similar to the Manuel/Cotts in NY situation, and I find it a little similar in that both were chances to sweep and it almost seemed that they would be happy with a loss by throwing out a rookie and not knowing what they would get. Of course, McCarthy pitched great, but I wanted to see what Garland could've done (and I'm sure he would want to stick it to the team that traded him when he's going so good), but nothing can be changed. Anyways, go get em tomorow

CubsfansareDRUNK
05-22-2005, 04:49 PM
dang! this was our chance to sweep! today would be the perect time to run around elmhurst with the broom. oh well, off to anahiem and the wait to sweep the scrubbies in june.

dcb33
05-22-2005, 04:49 PM
I think the big difference in the game was in the 7th when Uribe and Crede failed to get Konerko in. Although Vizcaino made a big mistake in giving up the 3 run homer, we had an opportunity to score and all we needed was a hit from one of these guys (or even a flyball from Uribe) and they failed to pick it up.

MRKARNO
05-22-2005, 04:50 PM
I forgot to add that not getting that extra run with the runner on third and 1 out by Uribe turned out to be very big in the grand scheme of things. It seemed so unlike him not to get it done in that situation as he's been great at it thus far this year. That was another defining moment in this game.

tstrike2000
05-22-2005, 04:50 PM
Even if Vizcaino didn't give up that homerun, the time of the switch was surprising and why he didn't bring a lefty on lefty to face Patterson. Oh well, 2-3 and now to start a new winning streak with Vlady on the DL.

mike squires
05-22-2005, 04:50 PM
I'll take it. Leave Brandon in in a pressure situation in a big series could have been an early blow to his confidence. Polite has pitched a lot as of late but I wouuld have went with him. I'll take it. 2 out of 3 aint bad. I hope we don't fall apart on this road trip and our pitching along with Dye and Konerko holds up.

Huisj
05-22-2005, 04:51 PM
This was the first time I've seen McCarthy pitch, and the comparisons to McDowell seem to make decent sense, at least in terms of how he looks (he doesn't quite have the nasty sink that McDowell had though). His mechanics are strangly close to McDowell's, partly I guess because of his build. He looked decent.

Biggest plus about him: control! Buerhle has great control, and he was successful very quickly after getting called up. Garland, Wells, Diaz, Munoz and whoever else the sox have brought up in the last 5 or 6 years all lacked good control when they came up, and they all got rocked (obviously Garland's has gotten better). Hopefully the control will help McCarthy be able to stick around and show a bit of consistency when we need him.

126 pitches for prior? can't wait to hear the guys on the score moan and groan about that. even when the cubs win, they can do no right lately it seems.

chisoxmike
05-22-2005, 04:52 PM
I think the big difference in the game was in the 7th when Uribe and Crede failed to get Konerko in, and it ended up being the difference in the game. Although Vizcaino made a big mistake in giving up the 3 run homer, we had an opportunity to score and all we needed was a hit from one of these guys (or even a flyball from Uribe) and they failed to pick it up.

Yeah, 1 out runners on the corners... we lost it after that. Uribe and Crede have been worthless lately. Yeah I know, Crede had a home run the other day. But, like him or not, Prior is a good pitcher and he makes piches when he needs to. He's a ***hole and nothing would've been sweeter than to sweep the Cubs on a Prior start but hey, we took 2 out of 3.

Dan H
05-22-2005, 04:53 PM
There has not been one time that I have been impressed with Vizcaino. His stuff looks flat and he looks awful. Then again, I never expected to beat Prior. At the very least, keep McCarthy and demote Vizcaino when Hernandez returns. And now it's time to focus on the real prize that will give Sox fans real bragging rights: The World Series.

elrod
05-22-2005, 04:53 PM
Quit complaining about the wind on Dubois' HR. If not for the wind Iguchi's HR would have been an out. Maybe Dye's too. The wind is just a fact of life. The pitch was too high and Dubois got a good piece of it. Ramirez' could have gone before it. And Blanco's could have gone after it. Notice he kept the ball down the next inning. Too little too late. Terrible pitching performance by Vizcaino, overall.

I think the decision to pull B-Mac was absolutely the right one. Ramirez crushed him already and was the go-ahead run at the time. Viz has to be the man for that situation. He's certainly talented enough, as the Brewers found out last year. He should be the 6th-7th inning bridge to Politte-Marte-Hermanson. He just failed.

mealfred13
05-22-2005, 04:54 PM
I would have liked to have seen Brandon use his change more (if he used it at all) and mix in more curve balls. Not that he did bad without 'em by a long shot, but I think he might have been lights-out with a better mix of pitches.

If you watched the strikeout replay, nearly all his strikeouts but 1 were on a big curve. You gotta think teams will be watching that on tape before his next start.

chisoxmike
05-22-2005, 04:55 PM
There has not been one time that I have been impressed with Vizcaino. His stuff looks flat and he looks awful. Then again, I never expected to beat Prior. At the very least, keep McCarthy and demote Vizcaino when Hernandez returns. And now it's time to focus on the real prize that will give Sox fans real bragging rights: The World Series.

It's time to give up on the Vizcanano expierement. It's failed. He'll thrive when we have a big lead or are being crused, he can't handle a pressure situation...figures he comes from the Brewers. I dont know who's worse form the pen, Vizcanano or Cotts :?:

Rocklive99
05-22-2005, 04:55 PM
*** CSN, I thought this was the SOX telecast, what do I care about Dusty in the pregame and now Prior and Dubois meeting the media in the postgame

Brian26
05-22-2005, 04:55 PM
In the press conference, Prior just answered one of Offman's questions by acknowledging him by his first name. I'm sure scrubbie-lovin' Offman is sporting wood now.

DuBois is the big hero of the game with a windblown popup to rightcenter that turned into a 3-run homer. Whatever. We outplayed these guys in every aspect of the game for the whole series.

MRKARNO
05-22-2005, 04:56 PM
At the very least, keep McCarthy and demote Vizcaino when Hernandez returns.

I think it's better to let McCarthy go back down and get regular work in AAA and once September rolls around, he can be used as a reliever (or even in August if he's needed that badly). The Sox could use him like the Twins did Santana for the last two months of the season (or the last month) if they so desired.

Fake Chet Lemon
05-22-2005, 04:56 PM
When Prior goes on the DL later this year I'm going to take great satisfaction knowing this 125+ pitch performance probably caused it. So the only way they could beat us was to have a game in Wrigley, have Prior blow out his arm, and have us bring up a minor league pitcher. And they still had to sweat it out. I LOVE IT!!!!!!

elrod
05-22-2005, 04:56 PM
It shouldn't, but this game kind of rubbed me the wrong way. Both this game and a game vs Anaheim (without Vlad) mean the same in the standings, and any thought about wildcard ramifications is bs to me, plus this would make McCarthy's next start against a red hot Texas team. Some here were arguing if this was similar to the Manuel/Cotts in NY situation, and I find it a little similar in that both were chances to sweep and it almost seemed that they would be happy with a loss by throwing out a rookie and not knowing what they would get. Of course, McCarthy pitched great, but I wanted to see what Garland could've done (and I'm sure he would want to stick it to the team that traded him when he's going so good), but nothing can be changed. Anyways, go get em tomorow

That's just silly. We need B-Mac to fill in for El Duque for at least two starts. Why not start him today. I thought McCarthy would get crushed and I was proven wrong, thankfully. He is a better pitcher than his AAA numbers suggest. It's hard to do any better than he did with that wind.

mealfred13
05-22-2005, 04:56 PM
*** CSN, I thought this was the SOX telecast, what do I care about Dusty in the pregame and now Prior and Dubois meeting the media in the postgame

Speaking of which, did anyone catch something about Prior and McCarthy exchanging emails? Not sure what the whole thing was about but Prior mentioned that they exchange emails and he helps McCarthy out with pitching advice and whatnot....hmmm.

jdm2662
05-22-2005, 04:57 PM
I would've liked to see McCarthy finish the sixth. I would've pulled him after that. I was very satisified with how he pitched. I don't know about Viz. Polite had pitched two games in a row, so I can see why he didn't pitch today. The ball appeared to be a pop fly, but the wind sure as hell blew it a long way. What can you do?

Uribe needs a day off. He's not getting it done right now at the plate. Konerko and Dye seem to be coming around. This will be huge.

I would've liked the sweep, but Prior had it for the most part. On to Anaheim, or wherever the Angels play now.
________
Toyota Hd Engine History (http://www.toyota-wiki.com/wiki/Toyota_HD_engine)

Mohoney
05-22-2005, 04:57 PM
You really can't fault Ozzie for pulling McCarthy when he couldn't lose the game, but you can fault Vizcaino for blowing this one. I wanted this one too much I think.

I think Shingo and Vizzy should be given fresh innings to work with while they're struggling. Don't put them in those inherited runner situations if you can help it. I still think it was McCarthy's lead to lose, let him pitch the 6th, then go to the bullpen with a fresh 7th inning. Only go to the bullpen in the 6th if McCarthy gives up the lead and is sitting on 30+ pitches in the inning.

chisoxmike
05-22-2005, 04:58 PM
In the press conference, Prior just answered one of Offman's questions by acknowledging him by his first name. I'm sure scrubbie-lovin' Offman is sporting wood now.



:rolling:

White Sox Josh
05-22-2005, 04:59 PM
Speaking of which, did anyone catch something about Prior and McCarthy exchanging emails? Not sure what the whole thing was about but Prior mentioned that they exchange emails and he helps McCarthy out with pitching advice and whatnot....hmmm.He actually looks a little like Mark Prior except he's 3 inches taller. Sounds good to me.

voodoochile
05-22-2005, 04:59 PM
I guess I'll be the first to crucify Uribe. Vizcaino didn't get the job done, but neither did Uribe with a runner on third and less than two outs.

He gets Konerko in and we are still playing.

All in all, a very good weekend. It took their ace to beat us when our AAA call-up was as impressive.

Well then you have to give Uribe credit too, because he took a run off the board in the first when he faked Lee out of his shoes on Burnitz's double with two outs.

BlackHat91
05-22-2005, 04:59 PM
We only took two out of three but that is pretty good all things considered:

1) The games were at an away park
2) We faced arguably the three best Flubs pitchers
3) The last game was started by a rookie with no MLB experience
4) The game we lost was only by one run
5) B-Mac had 6 K's
6) We still took the series :gulp:

Now lets move on and keep the Wins coming!

ode to veeck
05-22-2005, 05:02 PM
Well then you have to give Uribe credit too, because he took a run off the board in the first when he faked Lee out of his shoes on Burnitz's double with two outs
Great move by Uribe there, and then Lee blew it again later on the base paths when he froze on a liner to right that he shoulda easily been able to go 1st to 3rd on

mikehuff
05-22-2005, 05:03 PM
We only took two out of three but that is pretty good all things considered:

1) The games were at an away park
2) We faced arguably the three best Flubs pitchers
3) The last game was started by a rookie with no MLB experience
4) The game we lost was only by one run
5) B-Mac had 6 K's
6) We still took the series :gulp:

Now lets move on and keep the Wins coming!
AND... this was without Buehrle or Garland.

Chicago83
05-22-2005, 05:04 PM
Great move by Uribe there, and then Lee blew it again later on the base paths when he froze on a liner to right that he shoulda easily been able to go 1st to 3rd on

Dusty was just on Comcast complaining about the Uribe fakeout saying it's not proper etiquette.

guillen4life13
05-22-2005, 05:05 PM
Speaking of which, did anyone catch something about Prior and McCarthy exchanging emails? Not sure what the whole thing was about but Prior mentioned that they exchange emails and he helps McCarthy out with pitching advice and whatnot....hmmm.

When BMac posted on these boards he mentioned working out with Prior. Some guys on here were bashing him (something about his calves being big and flabby), and BMac was defending him saying that his calves are some of the strongest, and they're big because they're so muscular.

Hey, it's great that he wants to learn, and regardless, Mark Prior is an awesome pitcher and is definitely worth learning from.

chisoxmike
05-22-2005, 05:06 PM
Dusty was just on Comcast complaining about the Uribe fakeout saying it's not proper etiquette.

:whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner:

Brian26
05-22-2005, 05:06 PM
When Prior goes on the DL later this year I'm going to take great satisfaction knowing this 130+ pitch performance probably caused it. So the only way they could beat us was to have a game in Wrigley, have Prior blow out his arm, and have us bring up a minor league pitcher. And they still had to sweat it out. I LOVE IT!!!!!!

Yeah, it's sweet. Dusty had to basically sacrifice Prior (won't call him the Messiah in that context) to salvage one lousy game of this series so all of the baby blue fans can go home happy today. Can't wait til Prior needs to be shut down next month. It'll just make it easier to sweep these bums at the Cell.

NSSoxFan
05-22-2005, 05:06 PM
Dusty was just on Comcast complaining about the Uribe fakeout saying it's not proper etiquette.

ARE YOU F#%#%# KIDDING ME??!?!?!

Brian26
05-22-2005, 05:07 PM
Dusty was just on Comcast complaining about the Uribe fakeout saying it's not proper etiquette.

Neither is giving your phone number to a 19-year old college coed when you're at a "speaking engagement" out east. F Baker.

nasox
05-22-2005, 05:07 PM
ARE YOU F#%#%# KIDDING ME??!?!?!

That's pretty funny. So I guess being an a-hole is proper!

MRKARNO
05-22-2005, 05:08 PM
Dusty was just on Comcast complaining about the Uribe fakeout saying it's not proper etiquette.

Any manager who has Carlos Zambrano pitching for him has no business talking about proper etiquette.

Brian26
05-22-2005, 05:08 PM
AND... this was without Buehrle or Garland.

Yep. We whipped their asses and didn't even get to run our two best pitchers out there. Meanwhile, we had to face their top three. We own these schmucks.

mikehuff
05-22-2005, 05:08 PM
One huge thing about this game was not getting Podsednik on base. He supposedly hit Prior great, like 7 of 12 or something. When he finally did get on base, I wish he would have stolen.

Anyway, you can see how important he is to our club.

voodoochile
05-22-2005, 05:09 PM
Dusty was just on Comcast complaining about the Uribe fakeout saying it's not proper etiquette.

Really? Too funny from Dusty the whiner...

Maybe Dusty should concentrate on actually doing what a manager is supposed to do - teach his players to pay attention to the coaches, not melt down, not show other teams up, not overuse his pitchers and things like this wouldn't always be happening to the lovable losers...

Heck, with a real manager, the flubbies might be able to remove that second L word from their motto for a while... ah... probably not, but it would definitely help them...

NorthlakeTom
05-22-2005, 05:09 PM
In 17 appearances, Vizcaino has given up runs in nine of those games. I'm not sure what the stats are on inherited runners, so it might be higher. This is unacceptable for close games.

SABRSox
05-22-2005, 05:09 PM
Negatives:

-Vizcaino hasnt proven he can be used in close games. He's very HR-prone and I dont think he can really help us. It's a tossup between him and Cotts as to who I trust less.

To be fair, Vizcaino has only given up 2 HR's this season. His problem is control. Way too many walks, 10 walks vs. 15 strikeouts, or something similar, and his OBP against is .367. The SLG against (.409) is actually down from previous seasons, but that will change if he keeps going to 3-0 and 3-1 counts.

Those who said that he shouldn't be in close games are absolutely right. Let him have mop up duty until he finds the plate, then bring in him into tight situations.

Viva Medias B's
05-22-2005, 05:10 PM
I probably would have preferred to let McCarthy pitch longer, but I don't blame Ozzie for removing him at that stage of the game. B-Mac did his job.

I sure wish we won today because we all know how sweet it would have been, but I'll take the series win. A more important series begins Monday night.

NDSox12
05-22-2005, 05:10 PM
Dusty was just on Comcast complaining about the Uribe fakeout saying it's not proper etiquette.

You've got to be kidding me. My high school coach used to teach us to try stuff like that. The fact that it actually worked was shocking since it almost never does.

I suppose faking a bunt attempt is also improper etiquette?

Brian26
05-22-2005, 05:10 PM
anyone catch as they showed the replay, a blonde fan with her hands in the air cheering then realizing she's cheering for the wrong team, then covers her mouth as if saying oops what am i doing.:whistle:

What's new?

They were showing trixies in the bleachers yesterday with their backs to the field. Is there a game happening right now? Isn't it cheaper to just go sit in the beer garden at Sluggers or Yakzies?

mdep524
05-22-2005, 05:11 PM
Impressive outing by McCarthy...and he didn't even use his change up at all! Imagine what he could do with his full arsenal. :drool:

Uribe had a terrible, terrible series at the plate. I think getting Ozuna a start at SS (or 3B0 would be in order for one of these Anaheim games. Lastly, I wasn't as upset about Ozzie pulling McCarthy (Ramirez had a look in his eye and a grin as he batted in the 1st and 3rd innings...very ominous) as I was about him putting Vizcaino in there. I don't have a whole lot of confidence in the guy right now.

NSSoxFan
05-22-2005, 05:14 PM
Really? Too funny from Dusty the whiner...

Maybe Dusty should concentrate on actually doing what a manager is supposed to do - teach his players to pay attention to the coaches, not melt down, not show other teams up, not overuse his pitchers and things like this wouldn't always be happening to the lovable losers...

Heck, with a real manager, the flubbies might be able to remove that second L word from their motto for a while... ah... probably not, but it would definitely help them...

I suppose Dusty also thinks the Sox showed poor class all weekend as their pitching exposed A WEAK scrubs line-up for what it is. Derrek Lee an MVP? :rolleyes: Yea, getting picked off at a huge point in the game on Saturday accompanied by sub par hitting all weekend should get him there.

Mammoo
05-22-2005, 05:15 PM
You really can't fault Ozzie for pulling McCarthy when he couldn't lose the game, but you can fault Vizcaino for blowing this one. I wanted this one too much I think.

What was OG's reasoning behind pulling BM???:?:

balke
05-22-2005, 05:16 PM
I'm not going to complain too much, I was happy with 2 out of 3. You can't win them all.... but we could've won them all. B-mac should've gotten a shot at the quality start. He seemed to hit Lee on purpose, I don't know why he was pulled.

I'll take comfort in knowing we have a great rookie pitcher that had a great game in a tough pressure game. This season is amazing. Welcome back Jermaine.

elrod
05-22-2005, 05:17 PM
Uribe needs some time off. He's just way off right now and we can't let him go months in a funk. Let Ozuna have a few starts. I really like Uribe but he has to be aggressive up there. If he's tentative then he just pops up or strikes out every time.

PicktoCLick72
05-22-2005, 05:17 PM
THe loss sucks but it is one that people are just going to have to except as one of those games. A couple of thoughts though. People have to realize everyone in our order is not going to be hitting at the same time. Also BMac pitched great but I would not send El Duque to the bullpen just yet. 'd like to see him in one more start. Just looked SHannon Stewert is a piece of garbage.:angry: :angry:

chisoxmike
05-22-2005, 05:18 PM
What was OG's reasoning behind pulling BM???:?:

Aramas Rameriz was coming up and even though he was 0-2, the two outs were hard hit balls, I agree with pulling McCarthy, but not bringing in Vizcanao in.

Whatever... I'm glad the series is over and we took 2/3, lets worry about playing AL teams now that we need to beat.

Jerko
05-22-2005, 05:19 PM
Middle infielders ALWAYS try to fake out baserunners. Give it up Crusty.

Jerko
05-22-2005, 05:20 PM
Aramas Rameriz was coming up and even though he was 0-2, the two outs were hard hit balls, I agree with pulling McCarthy, but not bringing in Vizcanao in.

Whatever... I'm glad the series is over and we took 2/3, lets worry about playing AL teams now that we need to beat.

What he said, on all counts. :bandance:

NorthlakeTom
05-22-2005, 05:21 PM
Another positive is that we took the series without a DH. The NL teams have the advantage at home in interleague play.

Mammoo
05-22-2005, 05:23 PM
Can't win them all...

The Angels series will speak volumes about this team...

Kogs35
05-22-2005, 05:24 PM
To be fair, Vizcaino has only given up 2 HR's this season. His problem is control. Way too many walks, 10 walks vs. 15 strikeouts, or something similar, and his OBP against is .367. The SLG against (.409) is actually down from previous seasons, but that will change if he keeps going to 3-0 and 3-1 counts.

Those who said that he shouldn't be in close games are absolutely right. Let him have mop up duty until he finds the plate, then bring in him into tight situations.

vizzy lost all of his confidence in game3 of the season. he does need mop up duty to regain some confidence

CYGarland20
05-22-2005, 05:25 PM
Meanwhile..........The Twinks tied the BrewCrew in the bottom of the 9th...It's in the 10th now :angry: :angry: :angry:

cheeses_h_rice
05-22-2005, 05:27 PM
Just got back from the Urinal, and have to get out to do some errands, but I'd just like to ask what the heck was going through Ozzie's mind when he pulled McCarthy with 80 pitches only to get to another right hander with a 6+ ERA. Half the people in my section were first-guessing this move, joking that Ozzie wanted to give the game to the Cubs.

Oh well, you can't win them all, and the Sox made it close, and there were a ton of warning track shots by the Cubs that could've gone out on any other day, and Derrek Lee cost the Cubs a run with poor baserunning when he stayed on second base on what should have been a double. But still, how sweet would it have been to have our mini Prior beat the real deal?

Props to B-Mac though, for showing stones of, well, stone today.

spiffie
05-22-2005, 05:36 PM
Just a poorly managed game all around by Ozzie. Nothing shows more confidence in a pitcher than pulling him when he's going pitch for pitch against one of the best pitchers in baseball and oh yeah he still has a lead. Especially to bring in a guy who in all but 3 out of 16 has given up baserunners and given up runs in at least half of his outings. That'll sure do wonders for B-Mac's confidence, letting him know you think it's better to trust our frightening back-end bullpen more than you for almost 4 innings more of work. Way to not run Podsednik in the 8th when Prior wasn't even looking at him, otherwise we might not have gotten a double play. And thanks for bringing in the thunderstick that is the bat of Willie Harris to pinch hit.

Of our 13 losses, in almost half the cases at least you can point to absolutely stupid moves on Ozzie's part that have cost us a chance at the game. :angry:

SluggersAway
05-22-2005, 05:40 PM
Just a poorly managed game all around by Ozzie. Nothing shows more confidence in a pitcher than pulling him when he's going pitch for pitch against one of the best pitchers in baseball and oh yeah he still has a lead. Especially to bring in a guy who in all but 3 out of 16 has given up baserunners and given up runs in at least half of his outings. That'll sure do wonders for B-Mac's confidence, letting him know you think it's better to trust our frightening back-end bullpen more than you for almost 4 innings more of work. Way to not run Podsednik in the 8th when Prior wasn't even looking at him, otherwise we might not have gotten a double play. And thanks for bringing in the thunderstick that is the bat of Willie Harris to pinch hit.

Of our 13 losses, in almost half the cases at least you can point to absolutely stupid moves on Ozzie's part that have cost us a chance at the game. :angry:

Thank you. You can point to our record and say who cares, but there are reasons for our losses and always room for improvement.

Chisox003
05-22-2005, 05:42 PM
Just a poorly managed game all around by Ozzie. Nothing shows more confidence in a pitcher than pulling him when he's going pitch for pitch against one of the best pitchers in baseball and oh yeah he still has a lead. Especially to bring in a guy who in all but 3 out of 16 has given up baserunners and given up runs in at least half of his outings. That'll sure do wonders for *****'s confidence, letting him know you think it's better to trust our frightening back-end bullpen more than you for almost 4 innings more of work. Way to not run Podsednik in the 8th when Prior wasn't even looking at him, otherwise we might not have gotten a double play. And thanks for bringing in the thunderstick that is the bat of Willie Harris to pinch hit.

Of our 13 losses, in almost half the cases at least you can point to absolutely stupid moves on Ozzie's part that have cost us a chance at the game. :angry:

So you're saying that Ozzie should have left B Mac in to face Ramirez, who had absolutely KILLED the ball his first two times up? Or bring in a better reliever, such as Politte, when we still have 7 games on the road coming up?

Give me a break...You embarrassed yourself with that post

B MAC great job! We'll give the Cubs 1 of 3 at their place, now its off to Anaheim....

GO SOX!

Spiffie you're an idiot

PAPChiSox729
05-22-2005, 05:44 PM
McCarthy did great today. I am kind of disappointed with the loss but I am looking at it in a positive light:

- We won 2/3 on the road
- The Cubs didn't even see our 2 best starters
- We faced their 2 best starters

It is also encouraging to see Dye and Konerko heating up. And props to McCarthy for having a great start to what we hope will be a great, long career in a White Sox uni.
:D:

alohafri
05-22-2005, 05:46 PM
Mr. Aloha called me at home from Pigley Field to report that "Vizcaiano" is the Spanish word for "LaTroy"



--Mrs. Aloha

Rocklive99
05-22-2005, 05:53 PM
Does B Mac have some alternate meaning? When you type it without the space ( **** ) it shows the stars. I'm sure it has something to do with a 4 letter word the Flubbie hitters were saying early in the game ;)

NorthlakeTom
05-22-2005, 05:53 PM
It is also encouraging to see Dye and Konerko heating up. And props to McCarthy for having a great start to what we hope will be a great, long career in a White Sox uni.
:D:
Dye is having a good May: .299, .716 SLG

Konerko is batting only .238 for May, but he is picking it up.

Jurr
05-22-2005, 05:57 PM
Just a poorly managed game all around by Ozzie. Nothing shows more confidence in a pitcher than pulling him when he's going pitch for pitch against one of the best pitchers in baseball and oh yeah he still has a lead. Especially to bring in a guy who in all but 3 out of 16 has given up baserunners and given up runs in at least half of his outings. That'll sure do wonders for *****'s confidence, letting him know you think it's better to trust our frightening back-end bullpen more than you for almost 4 innings more of work. Way to not run Podsednik in the 8th when Prior wasn't even looking at him, otherwise we might not have gotten a double play. And thanks for bringing in the thunderstick that is the bat of Willie Harris to pinch hit.

Of our 13 losses, in almost half the cases at least you can point to absolutely stupid moves on Ozzie's part that have cost us a chance at the game. :angry:
The buffoonery never stops on this board. All moves look like garbage or brilliance in hindsight. Dolt.

SluggersAway
05-22-2005, 06:05 PM
You can't manage a baseball game with what-if's and could-be's. Ramirez hit two balls for outs the last two times at bat. He has not been smoking the ball at all this year, but has been a disappointment and an embarrassment to cubs fans all season. It is not a good idea to pull McCarthy with the stat line he had in 5.1 innings. You aren't doing anything but hurting his confidence and showing how little confidence you actually have in him.

Hendu
05-22-2005, 06:10 PM
Just got back from Wrigley. With the Flubs fans' reaction you'd think they just won the world series.

Oh well, you can't win them all. B Mac pitched 5 1/3 good innings and got a lot of confidence. Vizcaino...what can you do? This guy's supposedly got the talent and that slider is nasty if he can locate it. But I'd be surprised if he comes in during a close game in the next few weeks. He has to prove that he can get the big outs.

Of course the twinkies had to come back :angry:

Viva Medias B's
05-22-2005, 06:13 PM
Just got back from Wrigley. With the Flubs fans' reaction you'd think they just won the world series.

Of course. They have 180-degree mood swings. Two days ago, they were calling up talk radio and calling for Baker and Hendry's heads. Now, because they won a game, they think the rest of the season should be cancelled with them being declared world champs.

JB98
05-22-2005, 06:20 PM
McCarthy was averaging less than six innings per start down in triple-A, so I'm not suprised Ozzie pulled him. In fact, I think it was the right move because ***** is a fly-ball pitcher and the wind was blowing out. I was worried about him facing the middle of the Cubs order for a third time. It was his first start in the big leagues, and you want him to leave the mound feeling good about what he accomplished.

I'm sticking with Vizcaino. That wasn't that bad of a pitch to DuBois. In fact, it was good hitting by DuBois. He drove a pitch that was on the outside corner to the opposite field. If he tries to pull, it's a harmless grounder, and we're out of the inning. Armchair managers, who do you suggest Ozzie bring in for that situation? Shingo? I don't think Politte was available. Cliff has pitched a lot this week, and it was too early for Marte. It was either Viz, Cotts or Shingo. I'd take my chances with Viz in that spot. It just didn't work this time.

To all those who want to move Duque to the bullpen, get a clue. This guy is 5-1 for us, and he's a solid veteran. When he's back, he'll be in the rotation and ***** goes back down. Good start for ***** today, but he's number six in a five-man rotation. If our top five are healthy, he needs to go to Charlotte and get his innings in.

spiffie
05-22-2005, 06:23 PM
So you're saying that Ozzie should have left B Mac in to face Ramirez, who had absolutely KILLED the ball his first two times up? Or bring in a better reliever, such as Politte, when we still have 7 games on the road coming up?

Give me a break...You embarrassed yourself with that post

B MAC great job! We'll give the Cubs 1 of 3 at their place, now its off to Anaheim....

GO SOX!

Spiffie you're an idiot

Which part is the embarrassment? Saying that pulling a guy who had gotten Ramirez out twice for a back-end bullpen pitcher might not be good for his confidence? Saying that not putting our designated speed guy and lead-off hitter in motion at some point in a crucial at-bat was a bad call? Or pointing out that Ozzie has made moves that were head slappers as soon as he made them? Because I know pretty much every Sox fan (and a lot of Cub fans) around us today were stunned and saying that pitching move was an inexplicable one the minute it was made. Or are we supposed to be like the stereotypical Cub fans and just praise our manager no matter what?

As for the part about the 7 day road trip...every game counts equal in the standings. Especially since we have a long road trip it was crucial to not give up any ground since the odds are pretty good that with Minnesota's next 7 being against Cleveland and Toronto we will come out of that road trip closer to them in the standings than we are right now. McCarthy being in the game for another inning gave us a much better chance to win today's game and keep pace with Minnesota than putting in one of our most undependable relievers and we got burned because of that. And Minnesota gained a game on us because of it. Which bothers me far more than any name you can call me.

The Racehorse
05-22-2005, 06:27 PM
:tomatoaward

Just got in a short time ago and have yet to peruse this thread... but great job by MacCarthy today... Brandon, Congrats on your successful MLB debut! :gulp:

Cowhead418
05-22-2005, 06:45 PM
I just got back from the Urinal and I want to make some points:

- Sucks to lose but we still won the series
- The Cubs had their best 3 pitchers out while we had arguably our worst 3 at their home park playing by NL rules and we STILL owned them.
- There were a lot of balls hit to the warning track by both teams
- Dubois crushed that ball. I think it would have gone out anyway.
- It was a one-dimensional game. No small-ball today. I was saddened by it.
- The Flubs are a one-dimensional team.
- McCarthy was dealing. He pitched great and nearly beat Prior.
- The food at the Urinal blows. Their hotdogs are awful.
- I counted how many "Sox suck" T-shirts I saw at the game: 9 people wearing T-shirts and 4 vendors selling them
- I hate Shannon Stewart.:angry: :angry:
- I wish Politte had been available instead of Viz.
- I actually found it funny that Prior went the distance because warming up relievers would have been like waving a white flag.
- Dye is awesome. Konerko is awesome. Iguchi is awesome. Pods is extremely valuable to this team (defense and offense). McCarthy is awesome.
- I can't wait till the Big Hurt is back.
- We still have the bragging rights in this city.:D:

Lillian
05-22-2005, 06:49 PM
In that we all realize that the Sox will have to lose at least 30% of the time, we should focus on the many positives of today's game. First of all, we gave the "keed" ( as Ozzie loves to call everyone, but in this case it is appropriate), a chance to prove to us, and more importantly to himself, that he can pitch at the Big League level. Just think, he pretty much matched Prior for the 6 innings he was in there. I think it was a reasonable decision to pull him while he still had a chance to win the game, and walk away with a very good feeling about his effort. That confidence builder should be invaluable for his immediate future.
Second, what more could you ask for, if you want to taunt Cub fans? Our "6th" starter, a 21 year old rookie just bested, or at least competed with their "Ace".
If our otherwise very reliable bullpen gave up one crucial homerun, we still know that relief pitching is one of this team's strengths, a thought that I doubt is lost on Cub fans. They must be green with envy, everytime they think about how many guys we have out there whom they could use in place of most of their relievers.
Third, our defense was solid again, and the bats appear to have awakened. Dye had a great series, and may be emerging as the heir apparent to "El Caballo", as the new "Cub Killer". Paulie looks like he is finally out of his little funk, and finds himself among the League leaders in homers and RBIs.
And finally, we didn't exactly get humiliated today losing 4 to 3. The Cubs must now know that The Sox are for real. Even if they don't want to admit it, they surely won't be able to express anything but the obvious. And that is what we should all dwell upon. WE ARE CHICAGO'S ONLY SERIOUS CONTENDER FOR A WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. WE KNOW IT, AND NOW THEY KNOW IT TOO. So be happy!
I apologize in advance if I inadvertently repeated comments that may have already been made, but I really didn't have time to read all of the other posts.

Jjav829
05-22-2005, 06:51 PM
Oh well. I really wanted the sweep, but I'll take 2 out of 3. Cubs fans, and I know you guys are lurking this board, enjoy barely salvaging one game of the series. Go get drunk and celebrate, not that you need a reason to. Meanwhile, we have bigger fish to fry. Let's go get the Angels starting tomorrow.

I'm glad to see Dye HR again. He looks much better at the plate now, even though Prior schooled him in the 9th.

There's not much more to say. We got beat by their best pitcher and one of the best in the game. Prior pitcher well and saved them from having to go to the bullpen.

I was probably most upset with Uribe. 1st and 3rd, 1 out, you gotta get Konerko in somehow. I know Uribe loves the pop up, but he needs to not get so far under the ball and get it into the outfield in that situation. With the wind blowing out, chances are it might go far enough for Konerko to score.

Last, but certainly not least, Brandon McCarthy. I couldn't ask for much more out of a major league debut. He looked in control the whole time. That was a very good outing. It's a shame he didn't get his first W, but there will be plenty of those in the future. Thanks, ****. Hopefully you're reading this board somewhere. Sox fans thank you. :worship:

The Racehorse
05-22-2005, 06:51 PM
Dusty was just on Comcast complaining about the Uribe fakeout saying it's not proper etiquette.

LOL... Dusty, you played this game... REMEMBER?!!

Cowhead418
05-22-2005, 06:55 PM
McCarthy actually bested Prior through his 5 1/3 innings pitched. Sure the boxscore shows 2 ER but Vizcaino was the cause of one of 'em. When I was sitting in the stands watching him pitch I was nervous as hell the whole time but he really made a good impression on everyone. Don't forget his 8-pitch AB against Prior too.:cool: He was the only batter the whole game who stood really close to the plate. Everyone else stood really far away from the plate. Congrats on your MLB debut McCarthy.

Tragg
05-22-2005, 07:38 PM
Even if Vizcaino didn't give up that homerun, the time of the switch was surprising and why he didn't bring a lefty on lefty to face Patterson. Oh well, 2-3 and now to start a new winning streak with Vlady on the DL.

That's a good point, especially since Ozzie has used the bullpen like that in the 6th inning several times this year. Not real consistent. His use of the pen and staff remains a tad dubious, but there's no point in nitpicking a 31-13 ballcub I suppose.

White Sox Josh
05-22-2005, 07:42 PM
Dusty was just on Comcast complaining about the Uribe fakeout saying it's not proper etiquette.He should shut his face. Back in the old days that happened almost every day.

ChiSoxGirl
05-22-2005, 07:43 PM
Yeah, it's sweet. Dusty had to basically sacrifice Prior (won't call him the Messiah in that context) to salvage one lousy game of this series so all of the baby blue fans can go home happy today. Can't wait til Prior needs to be shut down next month. It'll just make it easier to sweep these bums at the Cell.

I had the same thoughts when Dusty sent Prior out to pitch the 9th, "He'll be on the D.L. before the All-Star Break," and all because no one in that dugout has confidence in their bullpen; even Kasper & Brenly eluded to it heading into the 9th! I don't care who you are as a pitcher- the human arm isn't built to throw 90+ mph for 126 pitches... end of story.

Positives to take from today's game:

McCarthy's first MLB start was a fantastic one, and his only mistake was to Blanco in the 4th.
The kid recorded 6 Ks in his first MLB game; first time a rookie Sox pitcher has done that since 1988!
Konerko & Dye continued their great hitting, and it'll hopefully carry over into Anaheim, where Vlad is on the D.L. (SO huge for us).
Sox fans were out in full force and were as vocal as ever during the whole series.
We took 2 out of 3 and won the series! :bandance:

White Sox Josh
05-22-2005, 07:46 PM
McCarthy was averaging less than six innings per start down in triple-A, so I'm not suprised Ozzie pulled him. In fact, I think it was the right move because ***** is a fly-ball pitcher and the wind was blowing out. I was worried about him facing the middle of the Cubs order for a third time. It was his first start in the big leagues, and you want him to leave the mound feeling good about what he accomplished.

I'm sticking with Vizcaino. That wasn't that bad of a pitch to DuBois. In fact, it was good hitting by DuBois. He drove a pitch that was on the outside corner to the opposite field. If he tries to pull, it's a harmless grounder, and we're out of the inning. Armchair managers, who do you suggest Ozzie bring in for that situation? Shingo? I don't think Politte was available. Cliff has pitched a lot this week, and it was too early for Marte. It was either Viz, Cotts or Shingo. I'd take my chances with Viz in that spot. It just didn't work this time.

To all those who want to move Duque to the bullpen, get a clue. This guy is 5-1 for us, and he's a solid veteran. When he's back, he'll be in the rotation and ***** goes back down. Good start for ***** today, but he's number six in a five-man rotation. If our top five are healthy, he needs to go to Charlotte and get his innings in.Shingo! He's pitched better than Vizcaino this year. Both ERA's are high because of the cleveland game however even without the Cleveland game Vizcaino's ERA is 4.66. Shingo pitched well again today. Ozzie should replace Vizcaino with Shingo because I really don't want to see Vizcaino on the mound in a pressure situation. I would've rather seen Cotts than Vizcaino.

chisoxmike
05-22-2005, 07:49 PM
Can someone PLEASE tell me why BMac is always refered with astereks?????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????

If its not appropriate then PM me and tell me. Its driving me nuts.

FarWestChicago
05-22-2005, 08:03 PM
Can someone PLEASE tell me why BMac is always refered with astereks?????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????

If its not appropriate then PM me and tell me. Its driving me nuts.I highly recommend decaf. :D:

Dick Allen
05-22-2005, 08:47 PM
Got back from the Urinal a little while ago. My thoughts:

- I had no problem with Ozzie pulling McCarthy. But if you can't count on Vizcaino(or any reliever, for that matter) to get two people out without giving up 3 runs, then send his a** to Charlotte. As we all know, this wasn't exactly his first screwup this year.

- Uribe needs to sit. I knew he wasn't going to come through in the 7th, he's looked absolutely horrible at the plate for a while now. I really wanted Ozzie to PH Everett in that situation.

- Cub fans are still stupid.

- **** Dusty Baker.

White Sox Josh
05-22-2005, 08:50 PM
Dusty Baker is an idiot!!!!!! Ballplayers used to do that all the time back in the day.

PAPChiSox729
05-22-2005, 08:58 PM
Can someone PLEASE tell me why BMac is always refered with astereks?????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????

If its not appropriate then PM me and tell me. Its driving me nuts.

Yeah, same here. Did I miss something or is the obvious eluding me?? Someone please post the reason or PM me. Thanks.

ChicagoHoosier
05-22-2005, 08:59 PM
I forgot to add that not getting that extra run with the runner on third and 1 out by Uribe turned out to be very big in the grand scheme of things. It seemed so unlike him not to get it done in that situation as he's been great at it thus far this year. That was another defining moment in this game.
I haven't read thru the whole thread yet, but for some asking for Uribe's head, I think this quote is right on. Very unlike him and let's wait and see if it become a habit or whether he just had a bad offensive series.

chisoxfanatic
05-22-2005, 09:02 PM
I haven't read thru the whole thread yet, but for some asking for Uribe's head, I think this quote is right on. Very unlike him and let's wait and see if it become a habit or whether he just had a bad offensive series.

All I have to add about Uribe is that he looked very much like Mike "Slappy" Caruso out there. He was very undisciplined at the plate during this series, swinging at anything.

I won't complain about the weekend as a whole, though. We won the series and have civic bragging rights for the next month. Cub fans will always be dumb, but doesn't every city have dumb people??? They just all happen to be fans of that minor league squad "up there."

White Sox Josh
05-22-2005, 09:04 PM
All I have to add about Uribe is that he looked very much like Mike "Slappy" Caruso out there. He was very undisciplined at the plate during this series, swinging at anything.

I won't complain about the weekend as a whole, though. We won the series and have civic bragging rights for the next month. Cub fans will always be dumb, but doesn't every city have dumb people??? They just all happen to be fans of that minor league squad "up there."Uribe is just a very aggresive hitter up there. He doesn't take a lot of pitches. He will never be a .300 BA and .350 OBP. He is streaky and that's just how he hits. In the end he will hit .270-.280 with 20-25 HR and great defense.

Mammoo
05-22-2005, 09:15 PM
The Sox finish game behind the Twins?

Will we hear this "Oh Well...Gee Whiz" attitude about this loss then???:angry:

I hate losing...I know it's inevitable...but I want to win the games we are in a position to win.

chisoxfanatic
05-22-2005, 09:19 PM
The Sox finish game behind the Twins?

Will we hear this "Oh Well...Gee Whiz" attitude about this loss then???:angry:

I hate losing...I know it's inevitable...but I want to win the games we are in a position to win.

The Sox certainly have a say in how they do in the standings in comparison to the Twins. I think we should let the Sox decide it when they play the Twins (and, they've done well against them so far).

TornLabrum
05-22-2005, 09:27 PM
When Prior goes on the DL later this year I'm going to take great satisfaction knowing this 130+ pitch performance probably caused it. So the only way they could beat us was to have a game in Wrigley, have Prior blow out his arm, and have us bring up a minor league pitcher. And they still had to sweat it out. I LOVE IT!!!!!!

So riddle me this: If you were Prior, would you want Dusty to go to THAT bullpen when you had a lead?

Fenway
05-22-2005, 09:29 PM
geeze I leave town and the White Sox lose

oh well the Red Sox FINALLY won a series against the Braves at Fenway

now 5-13 against Atlanta in Boston

TornLabrum
05-22-2005, 09:31 PM
The Sox finish game behind the Twins?

Will we hear this "Oh Well...Gee Whiz" attitude about this loss then???:angry:

I hate losing...I know it's inevitable...but I want to win the games we are in a position to win.

The Sox will have a whole lot more losses during the season than this one. The idea generally is to go .500 on the road, so tell me, what exactly is the Sox road record after this loss? Is it well over .500?

Mohoney
05-22-2005, 09:32 PM
The Sox will have a whole lot more losses during the season than this one. The idea generally is to go .500 on the road, so tell me, what exactly is the Sox road record after this loss? Is it well over .500?

Including this loss, they are 16-7 on the road.

White Sox Josh
05-22-2005, 09:33 PM
The Sox will have a whole lot more losses during the season than this one. The idea generally is to go .500 on the road, so tell me, what exactly is the Sox road record after this loss? Is it well over .500?16-7.

Kogs35
05-22-2005, 10:06 PM
remeber in 2000 when the sox where going for the sweep at comisky when manuel used jesus pena in relive and saved a pitcher for the roadtrip and 2 weeks of cleveland and ny straight? one way or another i think in the end good will come out this loss today starting tomorow night in anaheim, and going through the season.

voodoochile
05-22-2005, 10:14 PM
The Sox finish game behind the Twins?

Will we hear this "Oh Well...Gee Whiz" attitude about this loss then???:angry:

I hate losing...I know it's inevitable...but I want to win the games we are in a position to win.

Well sure... that's the idea after all. No one is happy that the Sox lost today, but the people who are losing it need to get a grip. If you worst case scenario comes true, then there are lots of times this season you will be able to point to and blame.

Hindsight is 20/20, but it isn't like the Sox tried to lose today, it just happened. Anyone who believes differently is an idiot, IMO...

balke
05-22-2005, 10:28 PM
The decision was questionable, the result may have been inevitable.

I think B-mac would've toughed through that inning, but I still think Viz Shingo and Cotts would've been responsible from the 7th inning on against Prior. That could still give us the L. We are still winning, and its great. I love complaining about NOT sweeping someone. And like I said, B-mac makes me nothing but optimistic.

Lip Man 1
05-22-2005, 11:16 PM
McCarthy pitched very well under tough circumstances. Assuming hernandez only misses two starts, Brandon will be back up on September 1st.

That's important because depending on the standing at that time, ozzie may be trying to give his starters and extra day of rest or even skip a start now and again to keep them fresh for the possible post-season.

McCarthy can step in, give the starters a rest and still give the Sox an honest chance to win. (unlike the cast of clowns in the 5th starters spot the last three seasons at least!)

Lip

Brian26
05-22-2005, 11:22 PM
remeber in 2000 when the sox where going for the sweep at comisky when manuel used jesus pena in relive and saved a pitcher for the roadtrip and 2 weeks of cleveland and ny straight? one way or another i think in the end good will come out this loss today starting tomorow night in anaheim, and going through the season.

Excellent point. Manual was praised for that move that year. Maybe Garland and Buehrle start us off on the right track now in Anaheim.

SOXfnNlansing
05-22-2005, 11:25 PM
Viz........ You mean vizzz the fizzz

SOXfnNlansing
05-22-2005, 11:27 PM
Excellent start of MLB career by Brian McCarthy.

Great series by Konerko and Dye.

And, yes, Vizcaino is worthless vizzz the fizzz

logansquaresox
05-22-2005, 11:28 PM
A sweep is always best, but we get the series and that means a case of ice cold beer to me from my ursa minor fan co-worker. :gulp:

SOXfnNlansing
05-22-2005, 11:29 PM
It was important to get McCarthy out of the game with positive feelings intact. Viz (is that is nickname now) is doing nothing for us. The RHP side of our bullpen is only two deep. This is a need we can fill by midseason. no it's vizz the fizz

SOXfnNlansing
05-22-2005, 11:33 PM
Positives:


Negatives:

-Vizcaino hasnt proven he can be used in close games. He's very HR-prone and I dont think he can really help us. It's a tossup between him and Cotts as to who I trust less.

If we had a better reliever coming into the game than Vizcaino I wouldnt have minded the move so much, but I think that too much confidence is being placed in a reliever so prone to giving up the longball and another with control problems (Cotts).

. Cotts sucks too....I've been saying that all year..vizz the fizz and cotts need only come in when it's mop up duty, not when the game is on the line

SOXfnNlansing
05-22-2005, 11:33 PM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/media/thumbnails/columnist/2003-05/7622751.jpg (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-phil-rogers,1,7454306.columnist?coll=cs-home-utility)





" I say the white sox should trade Luis Vizcaino to the dodgers for eric Gange" we can throw in willie and cotts in the deal too

Realist
05-22-2005, 11:50 PM
I slithered into the Urinal after a nite of work Saturday nite and I just got home. I've never been so upbeat and hyped after a Sox loss in my life. It was a great baseball game. McCarthy was fantastic - spotting his fastball and that huge curve was beautiful.

Way too pooped to expound much beyond that right now. Go Sox!

Jjav829
05-23-2005, 12:55 AM
Just something worth noting. With all the comparisons between Prior and McCarthy, here's a fun little fact. Mark Prior's major league debut came in 2002....on May 22nd.

Prior's line: 6 IP, 4 H, 2 ER, 1 HR allowed, 2 BB, 10 K.
McCarthy's line: 5.1 IP, 4 H, 2 ER, 1 HR allowed, 1 BB, 6 K.

:cool:

flo-B-flo
05-23-2005, 01:14 AM
Whatever. We outplayed these guys in every aspect of the game for the whole series. This is true. The c--- don't matter. They just got 2 for 3d. Next.

shoota
05-23-2005, 01:37 AM
I attended today’s game because I wanted to see McCarthy’s MLB debut like I got to see Garland’s MLB debut. Even though we lost, I’m not too upset.

I support Ozzie’s decision to remove McCarthy when he did. I believe I heard a stat that McCarthy is averaging less than 6 innings per start, so he was probably reaching his limit of maximum performance anyway, and Ozzie wanted to end his day with confidence and in line for the win.

I do not support Ozzie’s decision to have Neal Cotts warm in the bullpen during a one run game. Though he didn’t get into the game, I still don’t agree with Ozzie’s decision to have Cotts warm in one run games.

I’ve backed Vizcaino all year because I heard he was a solid reliever last year and has never been horrible for us this year. Though I haven’t had much confidence in him over the past few weeks, I still thought he was going to be a very reliable reliever for the Sox this year. After watching him live today, I’ve decided that he is no longer on my good list. This wasn’t an angry or quick decision; I’ve waited him out. I think I trust Shingo more than Vizcaino now.

What a beautiful fake by Uribe to momentarily hold Derek Lee at second, which kept him from scoring. Uribe saved us a run.

Looking at the flags during the game, I noticed the wind was really blowing out to right. Which is where Dubois’s 3 run homer went to. Bummer. Speaking of Dubois, if I were the Cubs, I’d play “The Boys [Dubois] are Back in Town” for every Dubois at bat. :D:

Bottom line: We won 2 of 3 against the Cubs at Wrigley with their two best pitchers starting and without our two best pitchers starting. Good work South Siders.

EDIT: I saw M&M jacket guy at today's game. This POS had front row seats again, though he was a little off to the first base side. Seeing him in his winter jacket on a beautiful, warm day confirms to me that this is some publicity stunt. And I hope it backfires. I refuse to buy any Mars products for the rest of the year because this M&M guy is more of a camera whore than Paris Hilton.

shoota
05-23-2005, 01:59 AM
Neither is giving your phone number to a 19-year old college coed when you're at a "speaking engagement" out east. F Baker.

PWNED! You have to use that zing during radio sports shows tomorrow. Or at least email it. Sox Army wants YOU.

:churrosarmy:

shoota
05-23-2005, 02:24 AM
I really like Ozzie's decision to pinch hit Willie Harris leading off the inning. Those of you not at the game might not be aware of this: In the inning where the Sox had their best opportunity to score (7th, IIRC), Carl Everett was in the on deck circle for the pitcher's spot. IIRC, the situation was first and third with 2 out and a 4-2 Cubs lead. If Crede didn't suck and had gotten on base, Everett would have hit for Vizcaino. Since Crede made the last out of the inning, Everett didn't get the chance to bat. The next time the Sox came to bat, in the 8th, Ozzie chose to pinch hit Harris for Vizcaino because the Sox were down 2 runs. In that situation, an Everett home run does not even tie the game. Basically, Ozzie wanted the power hitting, clutch hitting Carl Everett to hit with men on base. Ozzie didn't want him leading off the inning without the chance at tying or taking the lead, as he could have done had he batted in the 7th.

I've never been a big Willie fan, but he did give tough at bats when he started for Iguchi in this series. Willie's also a former leadoff man, so Ozzie put him in a comfortable situation for him: leading off an inning with the goal of getting on base so the tying run comes to the plate.

I hope this is clear.

MisterB
05-23-2005, 04:47 AM
I support Ozzie’s decision to remove McCarthy when he did. I believe I heard a stat that McCarthy is averaging less than 6 innings per start, so he was probably reaching his limit of maximum performance anyway, and Ozzie wanted to end his day with confidence and in line for the win.

OK, this is the third time I've seen this said and have to respond. I looked at McCarthy's minor league games this season. When he had a bad game, he'd get pulled about the 5th inning (or earlier); when he pitched effectively (like what he did today) he'd go 7 or more. The problem was he had more bad games than good, thus he averaged just under 6 ip/game. His effectiveness determined how long he pitched, not the other way around.

ChicagoHoosier
05-23-2005, 08:14 AM
The Sox finish game behind the Twins?

Will we hear this "Oh Well...Gee Whiz" attitude about this loss then???:angry:

I hate losing...I know it's inevitable...but I want to win the games we are in a position to win.
Here's the thing guys... We've been in every single game we've lost this year. Which means inevitable questioning of the manager's moves. It's natural to 2nd guess (or 1st guess) whether Ozzie should keep a guy in or who he should bring in to face the guy on deck.

I don't have a "Gee Whiz" attitude here - I'm bummed as everyone on this board that we lost another game that we had a chance to win. But I REALLY like the positive attitude on this board, people looking ahead to a tough opponnet on the road, and still enjoying a team playing quality baseball. This is much better than the whole board bitching about how much we suck or everything we keep screwing up. As long as we keep playing every game giving us the opportunity to win, we'll always haven't armchair QBs the next day.

Bummed we lost. Still looking at our team as a whole. Instead of bitching about Paulie and Dye, we're now bitching about Uribe and Viz. Every player won't have a great game every day.

owensmouth
05-23-2005, 09:26 AM
I was delighted with how well McCarthy did on Sunday. Interesting, though, he had only one ground out, on a bunt attempt. Everything else was either a popup/fly out or a sstrikeout. This kid's not gonna get a lot of help in the way of double plays.

This is about the time last year that Uribe went into his two month collapse. If he does the same thing this year, it'll hurt us badly.

Our offense failed to get on base and drive in runs. We aren't gonna win many games if all we do is hit solo home runs.

elrod
05-23-2005, 10:43 AM
McCarthy was averaging less than six innings per start down in triple-A, so I'm not suprised Ozzie pulled him. In fact, I think it was the right move because ***** is a fly-ball pitcher and the wind was blowing out. I was worried about him facing the middle of the Cubs order for a third time. It was his first start in the big leagues, and you want him to leave the mound feeling good about what he accomplished.

I'm sticking with Vizcaino. That wasn't that bad of a pitch to DuBois. In fact, it was good hitting by DuBois. He drove a pitch that was on the outside corner to the opposite field. If he tries to pull, it's a harmless grounder, and we're out of the inning. Armchair managers, who do you suggest Ozzie bring in for that situation? Shingo? I don't think Politte was available. Cliff has pitched a lot this week, and it was too early for Marte. It was either Viz, Cotts or Shingo. I'd take my chances with Viz in that spot. It just didn't work this time.

To all those who want to move Duque to the bullpen, get a clue. This guy is 5-1 for us, and he's a solid veteran. When he's back, he'll be in the rotation and ***** goes back down. Good start for ***** today, but he's number six in a five-man rotation. If our top five are healthy, he needs to go to Charlotte and get his innings in.

A voice of reason through and through. Viz just didn't get the job done but you have to give credit to Dubois too.