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View Full Version : Cubs have Wrigleyville; Sox need Cellville (Telander)


Fenway
05-20-2005, 12:17 PM
http://images.suntimes.com/images4/sectionheaders/sports/telander-hd.gif





Friday, May 20, 2005

Cubs have Wrigleyville; Sox need Cellville (http://www.suntimes.com/output/telander/spx-news-rick20.html)
Every time I stand outside U.S. Cellular Field, I wonder. I look at the massive cement wall to the west, the rampart that supports the railroad tracks that hold the freight trains that rumble past, and I feel as though I am in West Berlin, circa 1980.

mjharrison72
05-20-2005, 12:23 PM
Although I agree with another poster who recently mentioned the Cell could use a year-round sports bar, a la Hockeytown Cafe adjacent to the Joe in Detroit, Telander's idea sucks. If what the Cell is missing is a "neighborhood" feel around the park, then so be it... the last thing we need is some corporate developer to come in and try to replicate it.

Last time I checked, I go to ballgames to watch my team win... not suck down overpriced beers and crappy food outside the park, even at some "neighborhood" joint.

Telander does have one thing right, though, and it's something I hope never creeps into the ethos of Sox fans:
What's more notable about these series is the disparity in the fan base and enthusiasm for each team. Call it the sizzle.


If the Cubs sweep the first-place Sox, the South Side team will lose luster.

However, if the Sox sweep the sub-.500 Cubs, it won't matter a pea to the multitudinous Cub nuts. Party at Sluggers!

Fenway
05-20-2005, 12:34 PM
All the old Comiskey had were the 2 bars across the street McCuddy's and the other one I can't recall the name but it was a dump. But it made a difference.

here is the most damning sentence and face it HE IS RIGHT

And it's about the closest Sox haunt, Jimbo's, being a scary night-time walk past that massive parking lot.

If Telander who is still in pretty good shape thinks it is scary to make that walk so will thousands of his readers.

It's only a 1/2 mile to 31st but it might as well be 5 miles

dcb33
05-20-2005, 12:35 PM
Telander was rambling on about this a couple weeks ago during his radio show when they were discussing the oh so relevant issue of Sox fan attendance.

His idea sucks becuase if you take away an entire block of parking lots away you make a difficult task nearly impossible for suburbanites who want to make it out to the park. Dealing with traffic is enough of a headache for me when I'm trying to go to the game, and I sure as hell don't want the added bonus of having to fight for a freakin' parking place when I finally do get there.

maurice
05-20-2005, 01:15 PM
Jimbo's is on 33rd St., only 2 blocks (1/4 mile) from the Cell -- closer than most "Wrigleyville" establishments are to the Urinal. If you're scared to walk along side a well-lit, landscaped parking lot filled with your fellow Sox fans and their cars (not to mention numerous Chicago Police officers), I'm embarrrassed to have you rooting for my team. Stay at the Urinal where it's safe. After all, nodody has been shot dead in front of the Urinal in the past 10 months or so.

daveeym
05-20-2005, 01:21 PM
Jimbo's is on 33rd St., only 2 blocks (1/4 mile) from the Cell -- closer than most "Wrigleyville" establishments are to the Urinal. If you're scared to walk along side a well-lit, landscaped parking lot filled with your fellow Sox fans and their cars (not to mention numerous Chicago Police officers), I'm embarrrassed to have you rooting for my team. Stay at the Urinal where it's safe. After all, nodody has been shot dead in front of the Urinal in the past 10 months or so.Speaking of the urinal shooting, when's the trial??? Or did I miss it and it was glossed over in the papers??

Tekijawa
05-20-2005, 01:23 PM
The only time I've been scared out side of Comiskey is when I thought that I left my tickets back on my dresser at home and thought I'd have to go all the way back to Lincoln Square to get them! Buehrle was pitching that day so I knew that if I had to make that Trek, about 35-40 minutes one way, I would miss about 8 innings of the game. Luckily I had put them in my inside coat pocket instead of my wallet for that game!

Flight #24
05-20-2005, 01:26 PM
Last time I checked, I go to ballgames to watch my team win... not suck down overpriced beers and crappy food outside the park, even at some "neighborhood" joint.



IMO this raises a key point. Diehard Sox fans (and I'd guess diehard Cub fans) are those who feel as you do, and would include WSI members. However, on both sides of town, diehard fans are IMO a minority.

Casual fans make up a significant majority of Wrigley-goers, and for them it's the experience, not just the game. That experience includes pregame and postgame activities. Wrigley has those, USCF does not. If you want the big attendance and the revenues/payroll that go with it, you need to attract a lot more than just the diehard fan. Unfortunately, that involves having "non-core" activities ala Fundamentals and external establishments.

Tekijawa
05-20-2005, 01:26 PM
Speaking of the urinal shooting, when's the trial??? Or did I miss it and it was glossed over in the papers??
:giantsnail
and in other news the Legue boy and White Sox Fan graduated third grade today at the age of 19!

owensmouth
05-20-2005, 01:28 PM
In his article he said something like "It's not the American League." Actually, I think that one of the major problems is the American League.

The entire country has been so inundated by the Yankee media over the years, and more recently the Yankee-Red Sox media, that throughout the American League cities, the only out of town teams that consistently draw are the Yankees and the Red Sox. The other teams are preceived as incapable of providing good entertainment. In other words, only the Yankees and/or the Red Sox have a legitimate chance at winning the league championship, so they're the only good teams.

The National League is perceived as having no dominant team, so anyone (with one forlorn exception) has the opportunity to win. It especially hurts four teams in the American League - The White Sox, the Angels, the Athletics and the Devil Rays. But it affects the other teams in the league because the quality of the opposition is not considered that good.

MisterB
05-20-2005, 01:38 PM
IMO this raises a key point. Diehard Sox fans (and I'd guess diehard Cub fans) are those who feel as you do, and would include WSI members. However, on both sides of town, diehard fans are IMO a minority.

Casual fans make up a significant majority of Wrigley-goers, and for them it's the experience, not just the game. That experience includes pregame and postgame activities. Wrigley has those, USCF does not. If you want the big attendance and the revenues/payroll that go with it, you need to attract a lot more than just the diehard fan. Unfortunately, that involves having "non-core" activities ala Fundamentals and external establishments.

Exactly. If you want a crowd of nothing but die-hards at the game, be prepared for 15k a night. You want the place filled, you have to grab the people for whom going to the ballpark isn't the first choice on their list for an evening's entertainment. Or better yet, help MAKE going to the ballpark the first choice on their list .

tebman
05-20-2005, 02:15 PM
The only time I've been scared out side of Comiskey is when I thought that I left my tickets back on my dresser at home and thought I'd have to go all the way back to Lincoln Square to get them!
The whole "bad neighborhood" thing about going to Sox games has always mystified me. I've been going to games in that neighborhood for well over 40 years and I attended night classes at IIT across the Ryan for four years, and I honestly can say I never felt frightened or at risk.

I'm not naive -- I know that if I wanted to go looking for trouble I could certainly find it. But the spectre of being attacked around the ballpark is way, way overblown. Sure there have been incidents around there over the years; it's in the middle of a major city and the just by law of averages there is going to be bad things happening sometime. Ultimately it's a perception problem, like Brooks Boyer has said, and he sees his job as changing that perception.

Truth be told, I always felt at greater risk from the impatient drivers trying to leave the parking lots after a game. That's where you're much more likely to get hurt.

mdep524
05-20-2005, 02:15 PM
Not a terrible article overall, except...

Ozzie Guillen and Dusty Baker have more personality and history than any of the guys such as Greg Maddux or Derrek Lee or John Garland or Mark Buehrle (the latter two won't even be pitching this weekend), and they will be the ones who could get the crowd roaring. :rolleyes: :tsk: At least he didn't mention Jose Uribe or Chad Hermanson.

tebman
05-20-2005, 02:18 PM
Not a terrible article overall, except...

:rolleyes: :tsk: At least he didn't mention Jose Uribe or Chad Hermanson.

:roflmao: Nice catch!

FRANK FORT
05-20-2005, 02:54 PM
Telander's show is the worst! He has chosen to ignore the Sox almost completely. Just the other day when Buehrle beat the Rangers, I switched from the Sox post-game (going to commercial) to see what the Score had to say. What's Telander talking about? Some B.S. about kid's soccer and kid's coaches. The only time Telander chooses to talk White Sox is with regards to attendance or Oz being a bad influence. I used to think Mulligan was decent, but he's been corrupted, and if Buffone isn't talking '70's Bears he's useless. Now, before anyone says it, yes, I have stopped listening to that show.

tlebar318
05-20-2005, 03:04 PM
[QUOTE=tebman]The whole "bad neighborhood" thing about going to Sox games has always mystified me.

Mystifies me as well. I grew up in that neighborhood and lived at 35th and Wallace and I NEVER felt afraid. I don't live around there anymore but from what I have heard things are on the upswing in Bridgeport and at some point will be a much nicer neighborhood than Wrigleyville...

viagracat
05-20-2005, 10:29 PM
I think some people have tried to call the neighborhood "Comiskeyville" in the past, but the name never caught on I guess...

jake27
05-20-2005, 10:46 PM
i have never felt scared at all. i got to a few games alone each year and i park kinda by itt (a little south). i have no problem walking here alone at night. and if i drank i wouldnt really want to go to a bunch of bars and over pay for beer. and really, how many ballparks are in a neighborhood? there are plenty of ballparks that dont have much by them expect parking lots. i go to the game for the game, not for a party scene.

Viva Medias B's
05-20-2005, 11:33 PM
Telander has to go. He's boring.

Norberto7
05-21-2005, 12:19 AM
i have never felt scared at all. i got to a few games alone each year and i park kinda by itt (a little south).

Isn't that the Robert Taylor Homes, or remnants thereof? I parked on Indiana just north of 35th last time I went to a game, it's an easily managable 6 block walk. I don't know a whole lot about the neighborhood, but it seemed somewhat on the up and up. Although, I did get roped in to buying some socks and towels for $10 from a peddler (I was gonna give a 5, maybe, but it's all I had, and once you stop, you're kinda stuck). Even with that, I saved $7 off lot parking. They are putting up some nice looking condos/apartments on 35th right past the tracks, though the peddlers trying to sell me socks, hats, towels, and cigarette lighters may discourage me from parking there again. Parking around Halsted, while a little farther, has a lot more foot traffic and less peddling (if any, from the limited times I've seen).

SOXPHILE
05-21-2005, 12:39 AM
i have never felt scared at all. i got to a few games alone each year and i park kinda by itt (a little south). i have no problem walking here alone at night. and if i drank i wouldnt really want to go to a bunch of bars and over pay for beer. and really, how many ballparks are in a neighborhood? there are plenty of ballparks that dont have much by them expect parking lots. i go to the game for the game, not for a party scene.

Exactly ! I have been to going to Sox games since 1977, and have NEVER felt unsafe before or after a game, day or night. I think the reason the reason the reputation of Comiskey/U.S. Cellular being in a "bad neighborhood" is because of the Robert Taylor homes on the other side of the Dan Ryan, which did have higher crime rates. And the fact that it wasn't Wrigleyville. As for the party scene, yeah, I like drinking beer, hanging out and hitting on the opposite sex. But, as I believe someone mentioned earlier, I go to restaurants, bars and nightclubs for that. When I go to a baseball game, I ( gasp ! ) go to watch the game.

Nellie_Fox
05-21-2005, 01:07 AM
Isn't that the Robert Taylor Homes, or remnants thereof?No, just south of the park, the lowrise housing is called Stateway Gardens. The Taylor Homes were east of the Ryan.

TornLabrum
05-21-2005, 09:48 AM
I think some people have tried to call the neighborhood "Comiskeyville" in the past, but the name never caught on I guess...

Dan McNeil started doing that again Wednesday (I think). I wonder who told Telander about it so he could have an idea for a column.

Southsider101
05-22-2005, 12:46 AM
Telander and the other media types show ignorance again. They know Jimbo's exits, but there are other bars-real neighborhood taverns-in the area. The Cobblestone, the Sunset, Third Base, and Catchers come to mind. They may not be across from the ballpark and you may have to walk a few blocks to get there, but they're locally owned and not some corporate brewpub passing itself off a "neighborhood" tavern filled with pseudo-fans like in Wrigleyville.:gulp:

cheeses_h_rice
05-22-2005, 01:09 AM
There are a few things about the surroundings that sort of put the kibosh on any really huge development happening in the direct vicinity around the park. To the north you have Armour Square Park and the fieldhouse, which takes up an entire square block before you get to 33rd and Jimbo's. To the east you have the Dan Ryan, and then the railroad tracks, and then IIT and whatever development is going to end up being built on 35th on the south side. To the south you have that big block of public/assistance housing and an elementary school. To the west you have the railroad tracks and then mostly warehouses or public schools.

So, any development that's going to happen would have to be several blocks away, on the Sox's parking lots or adjacent to them, or at the expense of Armour Square Park and/or the public housing south of the park. I just don't see this happening. The best chance of the neighborhood becoming somewhat happening is for the area near 35th & Michigan becoming happening, or for the 35th/Halsted corridor getting more developed. Both of those are years if not decades away from becoming reality.