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View Full Version : A few more tidbits from White Sox lore


Fenway
05-19-2005, 03:30 PM
I can't say much except, I am glad the history of the White Sox is being researched again and some myths may get shattered

One really has to wonder what White Sox history would have been like it THIS was built

Allyn Tells Hopes for Sports Complex
Chicago Tribune (1963-Current file) Chicago, Ill.:Jun 16, 1967. p. d1 (1 pp.)
http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?did=583959512&Fmt=2&clientId=11417&RQT=309&VName=HNP (http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?did=583959512&Fmt=2&clientId=11417&RQT=309&VName=HNP)

NEW SOX PARK BY '72: ALLYN:Plans Independent of Sport Complex
Chicago Tribune (1963-Current file) Chicago, Ill.:Sep 6, 1967. p. b19c (1 pp.)
http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?did=588396282&Fmt=2&clientId=11417&RQT=309&VName=HNP (http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?did=588396282&Fmt=2&clientId=11417&RQT=309&VName=HNP)



One interesting saga and it all starts with (who else) Veeck. ( and it will involve the White Sox)

Winter 1952-53 and Veeck is going broke in St Louis with the Browns and now that Budweiser has bought the NL team he has to move and fast. Milwaukee is choice #1 since he knew the market as owner of the Brewers. The Boston Braves owned the rights to Milwaukee and even though Boston owner Lou Perini didn't want to leave his hometown, if anybody was going to Milwaukee it would be him. Of course that opened the floodgates and was followed by the Browns to Baltimore (without Veeck) and the Philadelphia A's to Kansas City. So Veeck started everything rolling only to be squeezed out but he would get his revenge.

Walter O'Malley wanted out of Brooklyn for the gold of Los Angeles and the possible riches of pay TV. However he needed help. The NY Giants were on the way to Minneapolis (which they controlled) until Walter convinced Horace Stoneham on the riches in San Francisco. Stoneham said OK but then they had to talk Boston owner Tom Yawkey into giving up San Francisco ( which he wanted for his own escape hatch). Yawkey had no love for Boston and no ties their and GM Joe Cronin was from there. But Yawkey took Minneapolis and later gave that to Calvin Griffin who was Joe Cronin's father in law.

Now to get Los Angeles O'Malley had to cut a deal with PK Wrigley who owned those rights, and O'Malley is said to have promised PK all of Chicago ( but he might have to move to Comiskey )

Keep in mind LakeView by most accounts was starting to get very shabby in the mid 50's and that is when Wrigley stopped putting money into the park.

O'Malley had a vision that their would be ONE team in every TV market, he had seen the folly of being in a city with more than one team but if you were the only game in town you could pipe in road games and never a home game to force people to "shudder" buy tickets.

By 1958 only the Yankees were in NY, O'Malley was alone in LA and now they just needed to move the White Sox somewhere. Minneapolis looked like the likely city and it is about this time Veeck started his push to get the Comiskey stock. ( and there was no way he would play along with the cartels plans )
Several NY authors think it was Veeck that was able to get Branch Rickey involved with the Continental League that forced expansion in 61-62.

paciorek1983
05-19-2005, 03:47 PM
I cannot view the links :?:

Fenway
05-19-2005, 04:14 PM
double checked them

http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?vinst=PROD&fmt=10&startpage=-1&clientid=11417&vname=HNP&did=588396282&scaling=FULL&vtype=PQD&rqt=309&TS=1116537014&clientId=11417

http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?vinst=PROD&fmt=10&startpage=-1&clientid=11417&vname=HNP&did=583959512&scaling=FULL&vtype=PQD&rqt=309&TS=1116537114&clientId=11417

DaveIsHere
05-19-2005, 04:14 PM
double checked them

http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?vinst=PROD&fmt=10&startpage=-1&clientid=11417&vname=HNP&did=588396282&scaling=FULL&vtype=PQD&rqt=309&TS=1116537014&clientId=11417

http://proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?vinst=PROD&fmt=10&startpage=-1&clientid=11417&vname=HNP&did=583959512&scaling=FULL&vtype=PQD&rqt=309&TS=1116537114&clientId=11417

Asks for username/passsword

JohnBasedowYoda
05-19-2005, 04:22 PM
fenway just post the ginormous pics you always do anyway:cool: . they keep asking for login.

Fenway
05-19-2005, 04:27 PM
no they pdf files

I will need to upload them in about an hour stupid Mac

Fenway
05-19-2005, 07:40 PM
OK Take 3

File 1
A 50 million dollar privately financed sports complex on the site that is now Dearborn station is in preliminary planning stages, Arthur C. Allyn, owner of the White Sox announced yesterday.
Chicago Tribune (1963-Current file). Chicago, Ill.: Jun 16, 1967

File 2
NEW SOX PARK BY '72: ALLYN:Plans Independent of Sport Complex
Chicago Tribune (1963-Current file) Chicago, Ill.:Sep 6, 1967. p. b19c (1 pp.)

File 3
Channel 9 to Carry 160 Cub and Sox Games
Chicago Tribune (1963-Current file) Chicago, Ill.:Apr 1, 1967. p. b2 (1 pp.)

File 4
Now if the Tribune was your only source of news in 1968 this letter to the editor is the first mention in the Trib that the White Sox have moved to WFLD

But again I think it is important to show that the White Sox simply had NO CHOICE by 1968 if they wanted a large number of games on TV. The Cubs were getting better and they wanted to televise road games when the Sox were home.

Fenway
05-19-2005, 08:09 PM
can't say WFLD didn't try this is an ad they took out in the NY Times

Fenway
05-19-2005, 09:15 PM
Now according to the history of the Devil Rays if you want to blame somebody for JR getting the White Sox look no further than

http://espn-att.starwave.com/i/magazine/new/steinbrenner_card.jpg


http://www.andelman.com/sfr/sfr-ch01a.html

"We talked and very quickly came to a price," Reinsdorf says. "Then, out of nowhere, Edward DeBartolo [chairman of The Edward J. DeBartolo Corp. of Youngstown, Ohio, one of the nation's pre-eminent shopping mall developers] surfaced and he matched our bid. For whatever reason, the White Sox board of directors decided to take the DeBartolo proposal." But DeBartolo was turned down by the American League. According to retired Tampa Tribune sports editor Tom McEwen, "They turned him down because they thought he had a Mafia connection. DeBartolo was crushed by this. Just a terrible decision. George Steinbrenner was supposed to help him and he said he would. The truth is he voted against him. [Steinbrenner] told [DeBartolo] that he voted against him on purpose so he could come back and apply for Cleveland. Mr. DeBartolo said, 'I don't want to own Cleveland. I want to own Chicago.' " In fact, DeBartolo was denied the White Sox twice -- once in a September 1980 owners meeting and again in December. The Major League Boys Club didn't want him. "After DeBartolo's second turndown," Reinsdorf says, "I guess I was the only one around." Reinsdorf and Einhorn signed a contract with Bill Veeck in January 1981 and closed the deal a month later. "The price we paid for the White Sox was $19-million, which at the time was the second best price ever paid for a team," according to Reinsdorf. The New York Mets were the biggest deal of the era, selling for $20-million. Complicating matters was the second-class status of the White Sox. At the time Reinsdorf and Einhorn bought the team, it was clearly number two in the hearts and minds of Chicagoans. Most were Cub fans. "This wasn't always the case," Reinsdorf says in their defense. "The White Sox were able to hold their own with the Cubs through the late 1960s. But something happened in the late '60s, it was probably 1969, that in retrospect was probably the dumbest thing that was done on behalf of this ball club." Lousy TV deals ruined the White Sox for more than a decade, Reinsdorf says. Until the late '60s, the Sox and Cubs both broadcast their games on Chicago's WGN-Channel 9, a VHF station accessible to everyone in the Chicago area. But the then-Sox ownership moved to Channel 32 (now WFLD), a UHF station that few people knew how to tune to, let alone wanted to. In those days -- and even today -- UHF signals are not well-received in Chicago. Putting the games on Channel 32 was like taking them off TV.

Urban Legend
05-19-2005, 09:33 PM
Great history, great stories.....

Here's one about how Bill Veeck got the idea for the exploding scoreboard. It was told in an interview with his oldest son (McGill?), and refers to a night that his dad lost a bundle on a horse they owned:

At the end of the night back in those politically incorrect times we got
drunk. We got very drunk, because it was a huge loss. But it was an event.
And I looked at him (his dad, Bill Veeck) and I said, "Doesn't it bother you that it failed?"

And he said, "McGill, I fail 55 times out of every 60 times I do something."

And I said, "What do you mean, dad?"

And he said, "You remember that scoreboard I brought home when you were
nine?"

And oh, I remember. It's the holiday season, my father was like Geppetto;
you know, with Pinnochio, the toy maker?

He came home, he brought this little box, and in it was he said to me,
"This is going to revolutionize the baseball business." And he uncovered
this thing and there was a little scoreboard and it had pinwheels and it
sang the Hallelujah Chorus and exploded.

I thought to myself, "who pays this guy? We ought to call Child Services,
we're in jeopardy here.

And he looks at me because I was the oldest and he said, "What's the most
spectacular thing about this exploding scoreboard?"

And I said, "I don't know, what?"

And he said, "I'm building it with someone else's money."

(Chuckles from the audience)

And I said, "How?"

And he said, "55 times I went out on the street trying to sell this idea.
And the 56th time I found a woman who ran the marketing for Union 76 and she got it. She understood. Their logo would look perfect right in the center of that scoreboard." She bought it, and it was on the cover of Sports
Illustrated not once but twice.

An idea, and where did it come from? William Saroyan, "The Time of Your
Life," a play. The last scene, they're sitting in a saloon, a pinball
machine explodes, and for that one moment everybody identifies with this guy
who's become a winner. Ideas are like that.

And I looked at him, I was nine, and I thought, "Man, he's willing to go for
something he believes, be laughed at, made fun of."

Fenway
05-20-2005, 11:02 AM
I think the comments JR made in Tampa are telling. He really tries to reinvent history over TV because by the time I showed up in Chicago in 1980 to live for the first time, WSNS was more than holding their own with the Sox. The problem for WSNS was they didn't have much of anything else to offer viewers and they lost a big chunk of their revenue when Channel 38 came online and the 700 Club moved there. Then they made the switch to become the carrier of ONTV which kept them afloat until Chicago was wired for cable and they flipped to spanish.

Veeck had to move his games to Channel 9 in 1981 and then the loss of revenue from the strike forced him to sell.