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SOXfnNlansing
05-16-2005, 09:23 PM
1 pods 2 iggy 3 arow 4 everett 5 crede 6 aj 7 pk 8 uribe 9 ozuna (RF)........ something needs to change with the big hole that pk is leaving in the 4 hole now. There were so many chances I thought he'd come through in that O's series and he didn't. I think that uribe/ozuna at the bottom will make things happen to spark the team. Maybe pk batting 7th will take pressure off him. crede and aj have been hitting so they should move up. Just my opinion. What do you think?

Mohoney
05-16-2005, 10:55 PM
1 pods 2 iggy 3 arow 4 everett 5 crede 6 aj 7 pk 8 uribe 9 ozuna (RF)........ something needs to change with the big hole that pk is leaving in the 4 hole now. There were so many chances I thought he'd come through in that O's series and he didn't. I think that uribe/ozuna at the bottom will make things happen to spark the team. Maybe pk batting 7th will take pressure off him. crede and aj have been hitting so they should move up. Just my opinion. What do you think?

Crede has one hit for the homestand and is swinging at some bad pitches. I don't know about hitting him 5th.

voodoochile
05-16-2005, 10:59 PM
Crede has one hit for the homestand and is swinging at some bad pitches. I don't know about hitting him 5th.

yeah, If you're going to make a change, bat CC 4th PK 5th and AJ 6th. Then don't mess with the bottom 3rd.

I'm still worried about CC. I get the impression he is playing on a bum wheel because the Sox have no choice.

Randar68
05-16-2005, 11:25 PM
Crede has one hit for the homestand and is swinging at some bad pitches. I don't know about hitting him 5th.

Crede is lost right now, no doubt, he's back to chasing low and outside with lazy-ass slow swings. Either not seeing the ball well or just make bad decisions that the plate about what he can handle.

PK isn't going any better. He needs to sit for a couple days, but there aren't any good alternatives with Gload still out.

NSSoxFan
05-16-2005, 11:30 PM
yeah, If you're going to make a change, bat CC 4th PK 5th and AJ 6th. Then don't mess with the bottom 3rd.

I'm still worried about CC. I get the impression he is playing on a bum wheel because the Sox have no choice.

What do you think about: CC 3rd Aaron 4th AJ 5th PK 6th?

TomParrish79
05-17-2005, 12:55 AM
Aaron has been hitting pretty good since they put him in the 3 spot.



I disagree with Crede hitting anywhere but 9th, I have seen way too many bad swing/infield pop-ups the last few weeks, got me to wondering if Ozuna could play third.

And I say that being a Joe Crede fan.

MUsoxfan
05-17-2005, 01:11 AM
I agree. I love Aaron at #3. He's hitting the crap out of the ball lately.

Frater Perdurabo
05-17-2005, 08:37 AM
I agree. I love Aaron at #3. He's hitting the crap out of the ball lately.

Ordinarily I wouldn't care for Rowand hitting third. However, we can't argue with the results so far. Keep him there. Harris, however, should not have been batting second last night. Why didn't Iguchi start?

tschneid83
05-17-2005, 09:26 AM
1. pods - will get on and keep pressure on.
2. uribe - nothing to be said, we know he can hit anywhere in the lineup.
3. rowand - 3 spot for him always not sure why ozzie had him 6, nuff said
4. everett/thomas (when he gets back) - would have to pick it up but will
keep PK out of the 4 spot
5. konerko - moved one spot back to hopefully get some confidence
6. iguchi - mix up that horrible middle of the lineup and does not seem to
do well as a 2 hitter when pods gets on base even though he
is hitting .300 something. So this could make him a better hitter and
help drive in some of the runs the 4 and 5 hitters leave on base.
7. dye - hopefully can get some better pitches to hit in the 7 spot
8. AJ - catcher does not need to be any higher in the lineup even though
he is swinging the bat good lately
9. crede - one more infield popout and i will scream.


Just my opinion.

voodoochile
05-17-2005, 09:48 AM
1. pods - will get on and keep pressure on.
2. uribe - nothing to be said, we know he can hit anywhere in the lineup.
3. rowand - 3 spot for him always not sure why ozzie had him 6, nuff said
4. everett/thomas (when he gets back) - would have to pick it up but will
keep PK out of the 4 spot
5. konerko - moved one spot back to hopefully get some confidence
6. iguchi - mix up that horrible middle of the lineup and does not seem to
do well as a 2 hitter when pods gets on base even though he
is hitting .300 something. So this could make him a better hitter and
help drive in some of the runs the 4 and 5 hitters leave on base.
7. dye - hopefully can get some better pitches to hit in the 7 spot
8. AJ - catcher does not need to be any higher in the lineup even though
he is swinging the bat good lately
9. crede - one more infield popout and i will scream.


Just my opinion.

I see no reason to take Iguchi out of the two-hole. In fact it surprises me that anyone would even consider it.

voodoochile
05-17-2005, 09:51 AM
What do you think about: CC 3rd Aaron 4th AJ 5th PK 6th?

Well, part of my motivation was to get a L-R-L-R thing going and you kept that, but two points...

Rowand has been hitting well in the 3 slot and still offering Iguchi protection.

I would like to see PK hitting with some consistent protection. AJ's production hasn't been affected by having weak hitters behind him this season and he's an excellent contact hitter, not requiring any particular pitch to be effective. So, I would prefer PK get the benefit of having AJ hit behind him which might help PK get more fastballs.

tschneid83
05-17-2005, 10:02 AM
this does not have to be a permanent thing but it appears that he is still adjusting to MLB. everytime pods get on base iguchi looks like he is clueless or at least does not feel confident which i dont blame him cause if pods goes and you hit a fly ball then you prolly wasted a stolen base since he would prolly be safe. So now he has to find a good pitch to hit when pods is not going. He is also tied with rowand with the 3rd most K's (24). which does not mean anything besides this guy is new in the league. He either goes 4 for 4 or 0 for 4. I just think in the six spot he could add some of that power we only have gotten a glimpse of and we need a good double hitting guy in the 6 spot to keep innings alive.

Like i said just my opinion. Dont have the dugout phone number yet.

daveeym
05-17-2005, 10:05 AM
Why not uribe somewhere in the mix 3-6. He's got some pop, and his eyes just light up when runners are on base. You know he's gonna usually make contact and put the ball in play.

daveeym
05-17-2005, 10:10 AM
this does not have to be a permanent thing but it appears that he is still adjusting to MLB. everytime pods get on base iguchi looks like he is clueless or at least does not feel confident which i dont blame him cause if pods goes and you hit a fly ball then you prolly wasted a stolen base since he would prolly be safe. So now he has to find a good pitch to hit when pods is not going. He is also tied with rowand with the 3rd most K's (24). which does not mean anything besides this guy is new in the league. He either goes 4 for 4 or 0 for 4. I just think in the six spot he could add some of that power we only have gotten a glimpse of and we need a good double hitting guy in the 6 spot to keep innings alive.

Like i said just my opinion. Dont have the dugout phone number yet.I think it's less to do with being clueless and more to do with being a smart player and team player. Iguchi is clearly looking at pitches to give pods a chance to steal and if pods doesn't go early Iguchi's then left to dig himself out of a hole. With his bat control I'd LOVE to see a few more hit and runs (or run and hits) with pods and iguchi. Move pods from 1st to third, open some holes for the gooch and reduce the times where he's put in a whole after waiting on pods to steal. Even if Gooch misses pods more than likely will have the base and if it's not a good pitch to hit, the gooch can just swing through it to disrupt the catcher a bit more.

Ol' No. 2
05-17-2005, 10:10 AM
Well, part of my motivation was to get a L-R-L-R thing going and you kept that, but two points...

Rowand has been hitting well in the 3 slot and still offering Iguchi protection.

I would like to see PK hitting with some consistent protection. AJ's production hasn't been affected by having weak hitters behind him this season and he's an excellent contact hitter, not requiring any particular pitch to be effective. So, I would prefer PK get the benefit of having AJ hit behind him which might help PK get more fastballs.I agree they'd be crazy to mess with the top 3. It's the middle of the order that's falling down. PK is walking a ton, which tells me he's not getting much to hit. Would AJ offer more protection than Everett? Right now their stats are almost identical. Maybe hammocking PK in between Everett and AJ would do the trick, but it's not like either of those guys is going to scare anybody.

There's just too much weak hitting overall. Dye has the lowest OBP of any of the regulars, and almost everyone else is hovering in the .260-.270 range. I'm not sure shuffling .260 hitters around is going to make a difference. Someone has to start hitting, and soon.

voodoochile
05-17-2005, 10:20 AM
I agree they'd be crazy to mess with the top 3. It's the middle of the order that's falling down. PK is walking a ton, which tells me he's not getting much to hit. Would AJ offer more protection than Everett? Right now their stats are almost identical. Maybe hammocking PK in between Everett and AJ would do the trick, but it's not like either of those guys is going to scare anybody.

There's just too much weak hitting overall. Dye has the lowest OBP of any of the regulars, and almost everyone else is hovering in the .260-.270 range. I'm not sure shuffling .260 hitters around is going to make a difference. Someone has to start hitting, and soon.

I agree with you that until they start hitting, it won't matter where they bat. I wouldn't mind seeing Uribe bounced up to 7th with Crede 8th and Dye 9th until they work out a permanent solution involving Frank. Maybe batting 9th will wake Dye up or at least allow him to see better pitches with the top of the order coming up. He is also quick enough to not clog the basepaths for Pods.

tschneid83
05-17-2005, 10:22 AM
i agree with you all. Change the lineup, dont change the lineup, i dont care, just START HITTING.

maurice
05-17-2005, 11:28 AM
Yesterday, Konerko struck out on a belt high fastball. When he's on, that pitch lands in the 25th row.

He continues to hit the ball really hard foul down the LF line. As DJ mentioned, if they moved the foulline over another 45 degrees, Konerko would be flat out raking.

Walker says that Konerko's mechanics are screwed up also.

RKMeibalane
05-17-2005, 12:18 PM
A lot depends on how soon Frank gets back. There's no question that Thomas should be in the number-three slot, but the question becomes, who hits behind him? Everett seems like the obvious choice, but if he's hurt, he may not be able to provide enough protection for Frank, which means the big guy won't get any pitches to hit.

Konerko needs to be moved out of the middle of the lineup, at least until he can his head screwed on straight again. The problem is that so many Sox hitters are struggling right now. Crede has been awful after showing signs of improvement. Dye has sucked for virtually the entire season thus far, and no one knows what Rowand will bring from game to game. Iguchi has been this team's best hitter without Frank in there.

It would be nice if Peirzynski or Uribe could get hot. Juan looked like he was coming around earlier, but he's shown that he's an extremely streaky hitter. Not to keep harping on it, but so much depends on Frank's return. He's the only hitter in the lineup who can take pitches and work the count. None of the other guys seem to be doing that. I don't expect hitters to change their approaches over night, but I don't think it's a stretch to expect them to be more patient at the plate. There are several players in the lineup who are making life too easy for opposing pitchers.

RKMeibalane
05-17-2005, 12:21 PM
Yesterday, Konerko struck out on a belt high fastball. When he's on, that pitch lands in the 25th row.

He continues to hit the ball really hard foul down the LF line. As DJ mentioned, if they moved the foulline over another 45 degrees, Konerko would be flat out raking.

Walker says that Konerko's mechanics are screwed up also.

Hawk frequently talks about hitters being "in between," and how that is the worst place for a hitter to be when he's struggling. It seems like Pauly has reached that point- he's late on the fastball, and he can't stay back long enough to hammer the offspeed pitch. If the mechanics of his swing are screwed up, that's going to make the problem even worse.

Konerko probably needs a day off to clear his head, but the Sox have so many guys tanking that they can't afford to have his bat out of the lineup. Again, so much depends on what Big Frank can do when he gets back. I don't want to put any pressure on him, but he's the one guy who can get the offense pointed in the right direction again.

tschneid83
05-17-2005, 12:26 PM
Not to keep harping on it, but so much depends on Frank's return. He's the only hitter in the lineup who can take pitches and work the count. None of the other guys seem to be doing that. I don't expect hitters to change their approaches over night, but I don't think it's a stretch to expect them to be more patient at the plate. There are several players in the lineup who are making life too easy for opposing pitchers.

Scotty P has been taking pitchers to 3-2 counts consistently. Paulie keeps getting walked which means he takes 4 pitches, i agree he is not really working the count but is getting the pitcher to throw 4 balls to him.

Randar68
05-17-2005, 12:39 PM
Hawk frequently talks about hitters being "in between," and how that is the worst place for a hitter to be when he's struggling. It seems like Pauly has reached that point- he's late on the fastball, and he can't stay back long enough to hammer the offspeed pitch. If the mechanics of his swing are screwed up, that's going to make the problem even worse.

Konerko probably needs a day off to clear his head, but the Sox have so many guys tanking that they can't afford to have his bat out of the lineup. Again, so much depends on what Big Frank can do when he gets back. I don't want to put any pressure on him, but he's the one guy who can get the offense pointed in the right direction again.

Konerko needs a few days off to just be in the cage, take extra BP and start using the whole damned field. He got this ridiculous notion in his head in the offseason/spring that he has to be the HR guy on the team and that's his job. Nevermind hitting with RISP, which he has been just unbearably miserable at. He's become almost exclusively pull-conscious. Not only is he hitting fastballs foul to the left side, but he's missing offspeed pitches by a MILE.

He needs to go back to using the whole freaking field, taking outisde fastballs and breaking balls to RF, and the rest will take care of itself. If he does that, he'll start turning those inside fastballs into hits and HR's and he'll start hitting like he did last year.

Coming off a year like he had last year, *** is wrong with him to go and change his whole freaking approach?

I'm just tired of Konerko, frankly. I'd rather have a consistent .270-30-95 hitter than a guy who can absolutely disappear for 3 months at a shot and take the whole middle of the order with him.

Ol' No. 2
05-17-2005, 12:49 PM
Konerko needs a few days off to just be in the cage, take extra BP and start using the whole damned field. He got this ridiculous notion in his head in the offseason/spring that he has to be the HR guy on the team and that's his job. Nevermind hitting with RISP, which he has been just unbearably miserable at. He's become almost exclusively pull-conscious. Not only is he hitting fastballs foul to the left side, but he's missing offspeed pitches by a MILE.

He needs to go back to using the whole freaking field, taking outisde fastballs and breaking balls to RF, and the rest will take care of itself. If he does that, he'll start turning those inside fastballs into hits and HR's and he'll start hitting like he did last year.

Coming off a year like he had last year, *** is wrong with him to go and change his whole freaking approach?

I'm just tired of Konerko, frankly. I'd rather have a consistent .270-30-95 hitter than a guy who can absolutely disappear for 3 months at a shot and take the whole middle of the order with him.If you look at his hitting charts, all of his fly outs have been to CF and RF. Doesn't that generally mean he's reaching for pitches on the outside corner?

Randar68
05-17-2005, 12:58 PM
If you look at his hitting charts, all of his fly outs have been to CF and RF. Doesn't that generally mean he's reaching for pitches on the outside corner?

He's trying to pull outside pitches, not go with them, that's why he pops up to the right side.

The few times I've seen him lean out and go with outside pitches, he's hit them hard. (only can recall once or twice this year)

Paulwny
05-17-2005, 01:01 PM
He's trying to pull outside pitches, not go with them, that's why he pops up to the right side.

The few times I've seen him lean out and go with outside pitches, he's hit them hard. (only can recall once or twice this year)

Yep, trying to pull out side pitches= pop-ups to rf or grounders to ss.

WhiteSoxFan84
05-17-2005, 01:14 PM
Here's my new order...

1) Podz - L
2) Iguchi - R
3) Uribe - R
4) Rowand - R
5) Everett - S
6) A.J. - L
7) Konerko - R
8) Crede - R
9) Dye - R

You want to talk about mixing things up? This is how to do it.

You now have a 1-4 that can play Ozzie's small ball.

If Pods gets on he can steal 2nd, Iguchi will either sac him over or hit the ball to the right side to move him over, or get a hit. if he's on 3rd with one out, uribe can either suicide squeeze him in or, again, hit the ball to the right side. the same can be done with rowand. uribe and rowand still will prove you a ton of power.

now thinking as the opposing pitcher, imagine facin konerko/crede/dye at the BOTTOM of the order. yes, they're recent play is deserving of such a place in the order, but this maybe how to get these guys to turn it around. with less pressure on them at the bottom of the order maybe they won't be over analyzing every situation and just start looking for their pitches and hopefully start hitting.

Paulwny
05-17-2005, 01:22 PM
There's always the line-up out of a hat for a few games. Some managers have tried this trying to get players out of a funk.

Ol' No. 2
05-17-2005, 01:26 PM
There's always the line-up out of a hat for a few games. Some managers have tried this trying to get players out of a funk.Crede: .262
Everett: .264
Uribe: .268
AJ: .260
Ozuna: .269

Might as well just pull names out of a hat for all the difference it makes.

Randar68
05-17-2005, 01:28 PM
Yep, trying to pull out side pitches= pop-ups to rf or grounders to ss.

Ahhh, the old reliable rally-killing grounder to SS and the pop-up to short RF with a runner on third...

I've never had a signature here before, but I believe now is the time to add one...

voodoochile
05-17-2005, 01:29 PM
He's trying to pull outside pitches, not go with them, that's why he pops up to the right side.

The few times I've seen him lean out and go with outside pitches, he's hit them hard. (only can recall once or twice this year)

I've been saying this for a while in chat. The whole team is guilty of it to some extent. Crede and Uribe come to mind immediately as does Dye. Rowand has started to hit now that he is using the while field.

PK is strong enough to drive the ball to any part of the park and when he broke out with his 2 HR game a week or so ago, he had been taking the ball the other way for a couple of days. Now he is back to pull pull pull and it sucks sucks sucks...

Randar68
05-17-2005, 01:32 PM
I've been saying this for a while in chat. The whole team is guilty of it to some extent. Crede and Uribe come to mind immediately as does Dye. Rowand has started to hit now that he is using the while field.

PK is strong enough to drive the ball to any part of the park and when he broke out with his 2 HR game a week or so ago, he had been taking the ball the other way for a couple of days. Now he is back to pull pull pull and it sucks sucks sucks...

Yep, it's basic fundamental hitting... My patience with Paul Konerko has reached its end. If I'm Kenny Williams, I do what I have to do to trade Paul Konerko for Todd Helton.

The new signature says it all:

Ol' No. 2
05-17-2005, 01:35 PM
Yep, it's basic fundamental hitting... My patience with Paul Konerko has reached its end. If I'm Kenny Williams, I do what I have to do to trade Paul Konerko for Todd Helton.

The new signature says it all:What's up with Gload? Is he ready to come off the DL? At least in the short term they could give Konerko a day off now and then.

Randar68
05-17-2005, 01:37 PM
What's up with Gload? Is he ready to come off the DL? At least in the short term they could give Konerko a day off now and then.

Been awfully quiet on that front. Right now Ozuna is the only real option over there, isn't he? Widger only in an emergency?

RKMeibalane
05-17-2005, 02:17 PM
I'd rather have a consistent .270-30-95 hitter than a guy who can absolutely disappear for 3 months at a shot and take the whole middle of the order with him.

The Sox have a guy like that playing in Charlotte right now. The only question is when he'll be back in the lineup.

RKMeibalane
05-17-2005, 02:21 PM
If you look at his hitting charts, all of his fly outs have been to CF and RF. Doesn't that generally mean he's reaching for pitches on the outside corner?

I think it may be more an indication that he's consistently late on pitches. If that's the case, he needs to get back into the batting cage and work on his timing. I still think Konerko needs a few days off to get his head out of his ass, as do several other players. I don't understand what it is with this team. After KW got rid of Ordonez, Lee, and Valentin, everyone thought the Sox offensive problems were behind them. That doesn't seem to be the case, as the offense struggles regardless of who is in the lineup. That means the blame has to lie with Greg Walker. *** is that guy teaching the players?

RKMeibalane
05-17-2005, 02:22 PM
There's always the line-up out of a hat for a few games. Some managers have tried this trying to get players out of a funk.

With Manuel, that was routine around here for a few years.

jshanahanjr
05-17-2005, 02:23 PM
I predict he busts out this weekend against the Cubs. He always eats them for lunch and dinner.

RKMeibalane
05-17-2005, 02:25 PM
I've been saying this for a while in chat. The whole team is guilty of it to some extent. Crede and Uribe come to mind immediately as does Dye. Rowand has started to hit now that he is using the while field.

PK is strong enough to drive the ball to any part of the park and when he broke out with his 2 HR game a week or so ago, he had been taking the ball the other way for a couple of days. Now he is back to pull pull pull and it sucks sucks sucks...

As I said in another post, I think the problem is about more than just the players. It seems that no matter who is playing, the offense has been inconsistent. It's been a problem for the past three or four seasons, and it's getting old. What exactly is Greg Walker doing with the players during batting practice and workouts? Why is it that every player on the team is concerned about trying to yank balls into the left field corner?

Everybody thought that the departure of Lee, Ordonez, Manos, etc. would end this crap for good. That doesn't seem to be the case. The Sox are winning, but they aren't producing as expected. There's no reason why Konerko, Dye, Crede, Pierzynski, etc. should be playing this badly. If the Sox don't show improvement by the time Frank is back with the team, Walker needs to be fired. He's had more than enough time to get these guys in the right frame of mind to be good hitters, and he hasn't done it.

daveeym
05-17-2005, 02:47 PM
As I said in another post, I think the problem is about more than just the players. It seems that no matter who is playing, the offense has been inconsistent. It's been a problem for the past three or four seasons, and it's getting old. What exactly is Greg Walker doing with the players during batting practice and workouts? Why is it that every player on the team is concerned about trying to yank balls into the left field corner?

Everybody thought that the departure of Lee, Ordonez, Manos, etc. would end this crap for good. That doesn't seem to be the case. The Sox are winning, but they aren't producing as expected. There's no reason why Konerko, Dye, Crede, Pierzynski, etc. should be playing this badly. If the Sox don't show improvement by the time Frank is back with the team, Walker needs to be fired. He's had more than enough time to get these guys in the right frame of mind to be good hitters, and he hasn't done it. Won't somebody pleeeasee make a fire Walker tag. Seriously though, I've been thinking he's part of the problem for quite some time. I think he's one of those guys that when someone has a problem he switches them into his type of hitter, rather than fixing or tweaking the batter's own personal swing.

maurice
05-17-2005, 03:09 PM
Rowand speaks very highly of Walker. Besides, Konerko might need a shrink instead of a hitting coach.

My lineup when Frank returns:
1-Pods-CF-L
2-Iguchi-2B-R
3-Rowand-RF-R
4-Thomas-DH-R
5-Everett-LF-S
6-Konerko-1B-R
7-Pierzynski-C-L
8-Crede-3B-R
9-Uribe-SS-R

Bench:
Widger-C-R
Harris-UT/PR-L
Ozuna-UT/PR-R
Dye-OF/PH-R
Gload or Perez-1B/OF/PH-L

Ol' No. 2
05-17-2005, 03:13 PM
As I said in another post, I think the problem is about more than just the players. It seems that no matter who is playing, the offense has been inconsistent. It's been a problem for the past three or four seasons, and it's getting old. What exactly is Greg Walker doing with the players during batting practice and workouts? Why is it that every player on the team is concerned about trying to yank balls into the left field corner?

Everybody thought that the departure of Lee, Ordonez, Manos, etc. would end this crap for good. That doesn't seem to be the case. The Sox are winning, but they aren't producing as expected. There's no reason why Konerko, Dye, Crede, Pierzynski, etc. should be playing this badly. If the Sox don't show improvement by the time Frank is back with the team, Walker needs to be fired. He's had more than enough time to get these guys in the right frame of mind to be good hitters, and he hasn't done it.I don't buy it. While I've defended Konerko a lot over the years, it's apparent he's a head case who the minute he has an 0-4 day immediately begins tinkering with his stance, swing, batting gloves, breakfast and anything else he can mess with. I don't think you can blame that on Walker. And you certainly can't blame Walker for Dye's anemic hitting. These are the two worst problems.

Aside from Konerko and Dye, they have a bunch of guys hitting .260. While that might sound terrible, at this stage of the season, 25 pts in BA works out to about 3 hits. A .260 hitter is one good weekend from .300, so I wouldn't get too worked up over that just yet.

tschneid83
05-18-2005, 09:58 AM
"I have made a lot of adjustments," said Iguchi through his translator. "In Japan, I never had to bunt. I never had to hit to the right. For me, I'm actually trying my best to fit as a No. 2 hitter. Sometimes, I don't like being the No. 2 hitter, but I'm trying to make that adjustment.

Just wanted to bring back my point from a lot of posts ago about how iguchi has had to make an adjustment and could possibly (and i mean possibly) be better than somewhere else in the lineup. He is doing fine in the 2 spot but had to point out some info that backs me up. Got all this good info from the sox site under Notes: Iguchi adjusts his style.