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soxfan123
05-15-2005, 06:56 PM
I was at the game today (Sunday vs. O's), and when I got there in box 552, it was peaceful and I was enjoying the game. Then, (I hope it's not anyone on this site, I doubt it though) a man with his two kids sat right behind me and chanted frantically about how the Cubs lost with absolutely no one responding to him for five straight innings. It was as if he was "yelling to himself". He said every single time there was a fly ball to the outfield that the ball would be out at Wrigley, as if anyone in my area cares about his insulting comments. yes, I hate the Cubs and I can't stand the die-hard Wrigley supporters, but this was a big game, and I was EXTREMELY annoyed. To go along with that, he was swearing uncontrollably, which isn't that big of a deal, but I don't want to hear "bleep this" and "bleep that" while I watch my team play. If you were me, would you have moved, perhaps tell the intimidatingly big guy to stop shouting? I am wondering if maybe I am not being enough of a fan and excepting the occasional bum who is in your section. I would appreciate any thoughts.

BTW, that whole "throwing it back" thing has got to go.

Palpidious
05-15-2005, 07:07 PM
the utley home run ball landed right in front of me. the jagbag that threw it back was wearing a yankee hat. he and his friends literally showed up 2-3 minutes before the homerun was hit, 3rd inning by the way. i screamed at him that this is not wrigley and don't throw it back. i almost grabbed his arm as he reared back. but i figured i didn't want to get kicked out for having to kick this scumbag's ass.

Spicoli
05-15-2005, 07:17 PM
the utley home run ball landed right in front of me. the jagbag that threw it back was wearing a yankee hat. he and his friends literally showed up 2-3 minutes before the homerun was hit, 3rd inning by the way. i screamed at him that this is not wrigley and don't throw it back. i almost grabbed his arm as he reared back. but i figured i didn't want to get kicked out for having to kick this scumbag's ass.

chase utley plays for the phillies...

SouthSide4Life
05-15-2005, 07:18 PM
i couldn't agree more with everything that you said. PS i love that sig!

Palpidious
05-15-2005, 07:22 PM
fasano then. it doesn't really matter. 1st homer since 2001. :anon:

Ron Karkovice
05-15-2005, 08:09 PM
haha that guy sounds like a loser. I was in section 535 today, and sure, when i noticed the cubs lost 5-4 i was happy, but I didnt open my mouth:redneck

soxjim
05-15-2005, 08:15 PM
the utley home run ball landed right in front of me. the jagbag that threw it back was wearing a yankee hat. he and his friends literally showed up 2-3 minutes before the homerun was hit, 3rd inning by the way. i screamed at him that this is not wrigley and don't throw it back. i almost grabbed his arm as he reared back. but i figured i didn't want to get kicked out for having to kick this scumbag's ass.

The O's 2nd homerun was hit 4 rows bellow me and was not thrown back. Fans who want to do this can go to wrigley and do that or get fined for throwing stuff onto the playing field.

BRDSR
05-15-2005, 08:31 PM
If you were me, would you have moved, perhaps tell the intimidatingly big guy to stop shouting? I am wondering if maybe I am not being enough of a fan and excepting the occasional bum who is in your section. I would appreciate any thoughts.



I think you're being a great fan by not getting all up in arms about it and just leaving the area yourself. I was also at the game today and sat exactly one row in front of a similar fellow. As soon as the pitch would leave the pitchers hand it would yell "ball" or "strike." Of course he was wrong half the time because no one can tell 1/3rd of the way through the pitch if its going to be a ball or a strike in section 103. Then, when he was right, you could tell he really thought he was God's gift to baseball. He also let a steady string of f-bombs fly while who I assume were his kids(all younger than 13, one decked out in Cubs gear) sat to his left and right. And, as if to add insult to injury, he came up with Newhan's homerun ball in the 6th. Even if it wasn't a Sox home run I've been wanting to catch one all my life...just one row lower. Darn. At least he didn't throw it back, as soxjim pointed out one post above. In any case, my friend and I went up to the fan deck in the middle of the 7th just to get away from him.

On Saturday I brought my little sister(17 years old) to the game and everyone around us was drunk and fat and annoying. By the 5th inning they were all on a first name basis with my sister and I was not amused. In 7th when a skinny guy in a playboy hat and a strip clubs' jacket who had had too much to drink started to hit on her we had to leave again. I was actually embarassed to have brought her.

These incidents combined with the Sox poor play did not make for a great weekend at Sox Park. The next game I've got tickets for is Monday the 30th against the Angels, hopefully it'll be better.

buehrle4cy05
05-15-2005, 08:40 PM
That gets pretty annoying. I once went to a Sox vs. Twins game where there was an obnoxious Cubs fan sitting behind me, chanting about how much he thought the Sox suck. They Sox won the game, 10-2. It would have annoyed me just as much if the guy was yelling about how much the Cubs suck, because with all due respect, I don't think Sox fans should care about how the Cubs are doing because they don't play in the same league. What the Cubs do has very little effect on the White Sox AS A TEAM. It's perfectly ok to get mad about the Cubs getting more media coverage.

Rocklive99
05-15-2005, 09:10 PM
There was a real obnoxious Afro American guy in the section over on Thursday night. He was wearing all Orioles gear, which I don't mind since he paid to get in, but I hate when they have to be jags. First off, he kept saying that we start this way every year and we all knew we wouldn't be there in the end, it'd be the "Red Sox, Yankees, or Cardinals". I don't really care about other's opinions, but it really got annoying when every other word out of his mouth was MFer or God-D, and he was screaming it too, it was real uncomforable and embarrasing for families around, he settled down after a secuirty guard talked to him for a little. I don't care if Flub or opposing fans want to come in the park, even if they have to wear their gear, but why they feel they have the right to act like extreme jags is beyond me. A few ruin it for everyone, there's always going to be at least one person like this

seanpmurphy
05-15-2005, 09:18 PM
I was there today and despite the kind of crappy weather and the loss it was an all right time in 161. With so many little kids around you'd be surprised a lot of the people that come to these games, most of whom are the ones bringing the kids, would act like jerks. It's unfortunate to hear so many people on the boards with less than good experiences all because of another person in the park. The people in Cubs gear also really annoy me. I know it's great to support your team, but why wear the gear into a stadium where the Cubs aren't even at? Maybe I'm too nice but I wouldn't wear my Sox shirt and hat to a game at Wrigley when the Sox are halfway across the country somewhere.

Cheers to the Sox for 37 straight games with the lead, a record that's soon to be legendary. :gulp:

SluggersAway
05-15-2005, 09:31 PM
As sorry as I am to hear about these unfortunate experiences at the park. I can't be surprised. Sad to say, but it is not a Sox problem, or even a baseball problem, but a case of the state of the culture in America in the 21st Century. If it is any consolation, it is much worse in soccer stadiums across the world. If absolute decorum and genteel manners is your game, perhaps a tennis or polo match is your fare.

C-Dawg
05-15-2005, 09:35 PM
One thing that we get at Comiskey that they don't see too much of at Wrigley is families. And with today in particular being "Kids Day" those Cub fans should take a cue from all the youngsters around and cool it.

Although I should admit I really didn't see much unruly behavior in my two games of this series. There was some guy who looked to be about 15, wearing a Cubs Maddux jersey, proclaiming how we'd be out of it be the allstar break, but he wasn't loud enough to get his message across. He was hanging around with some guy with an Orioles Sosa T-shirt, go figure.

SluggersAway
05-15-2005, 09:39 PM
As a solution though, all it usually takes is someone to speak up and point out the the kids in the area and remind them of the first time they were at a baseball park. If that doesn't work and they are really abusive it doesn't hurt to bring it to the attention of the staff.

Cellview22
05-15-2005, 10:03 PM
I saw my fair share of obnoxious fans on Saturday night. I don't mind obnoxious fans, but man this was bad. It seems like they all hang out in groups of 10 or more. This one group near me was chanting "Wave wave wave wave" trying to get the wave going. They thought the wave was the coolest thing in the world, which I'll never understand. They kept walking in front of me up and down the aisle like they couldn't care less about what was going on on the field.

Eventually we moved and found empty seats near a bunch of guys with Cubs hats on...no joke. All of them wearing the same new looking hats.

I could go on and on..but what drove me nuts the most was walking through the concourse. I went in between innings, but it was so packed with people that I couldn't get back in time for the next inning because people were just standing there socializing shoulder to shoulder..it was so packed it felt like a mall the week before Christmas. Hundreds of people were seated at the little picnic tables not even caring about the game, and the funny thing was all these people were decked out in Sox gear. And they couldn't care less what was going on outside of the concourse. It made sense why it looked so empty with empty seats scattered everywhere throughout the stadium. My friend mentioned that he's never seen anything like it. He said no one goes to watch the game. :o: Made me a little embarrassed, but maybe it was just one bad night. :(:

DumpJerry
05-15-2005, 10:08 PM
If someone is using profane language excessively, inform one of the ushers. This would be very effective if you have kids, the Sox want to keep the place family friendly, so they will probably ask the goof to clean up his act.

JB98
05-16-2005, 12:20 AM
the utley home run ball landed right in front of me. the jagbag that threw it back was wearing a yankee hat. he and his friends literally showed up 2-3 minutes before the homerun was hit, 3rd inning by the way. i screamed at him that this is not wrigley and don't throw it back. i almost grabbed his arm as he reared back. but i figured i didn't want to get kicked out for having to kick this scumbag's ass.

You must have been just a few rows in front of me in Section 160. I was yelling, "If you don't want the ball, give it to me," and "Keep no balls, have no balls." Those are my usual taunts toward losers who throw back HR balls.

I've attended probably well over 100 games on the South Side in my almost 29 years, and I've never caught a ball. If I ever do, I'll be keeping it, rest assured.

Ditka311
05-16-2005, 12:29 AM
I saw my fair share of obnoxious fans on Saturday night. I don't mind obnoxious fans, but man this was bad. It seems like they all hang out in groups of 10 or more. This one group near me was chanting "Wave wave wave wave" trying to get the wave going. They thought the wave was the coolest thing in the world, which I'll never understand. They kept walking in front of me up and down the aisle like they couldn't care less about what was going on on the field.

Eventually we moved and found empty seats near a bunch of guys with Cubs hats on...no joke. All of them wearing the same new looking hats.

I could go on and on..but what drove me nuts the most was walking through the concourse. I went in between innings, but it was so packed with people that I couldn't get back in time for the next inning because people were just standing there socializing shoulder to shoulder..it was so packed it felt like a mall the week before Christmas. Hundreds of people were seated at the little picnic tables not even caring about the game, and the funny thing was all these people were decked out in Sox gear. And they couldn't care less what was going on outside of the concourse. It made sense why it looked so empty with empty seats scattered everywhere throughout the stadium. My friend mentioned that he's never seen anything like it. He said no one goes to watch the game. :o: Made me a little embarrassed, but maybe it was just one bad night. :(:

You wouldnt have happened to be in Section 516?

Jurr
05-16-2005, 07:16 AM
I saw my fair share of obnoxious fans on Saturday night. I don't mind obnoxious fans, but man this was bad. It seems like they all hang out in groups of 10 or more. This one group near me was chanting "Wave wave wave wave" trying to get the wave going. They thought the wave was the coolest thing in the world, which I'll never understand. They kept walking in front of me up and down the aisle like they couldn't care less about what was going on on the field.

Eventually we moved and found empty seats near a bunch of guys with Cubs hats on...no joke. All of them wearing the same new looking hats.

I could go on and on..but what drove me nuts the most was walking through the concourse. I went in between innings, but it was so packed with people that I couldn't get back in time for the next inning because people were just standing there socializing shoulder to shoulder..it was so packed it felt like a mall the week before Christmas. Hundreds of people were seated at the little picnic tables not even caring about the game, and the funny thing was all these people were decked out in Sox gear. And they couldn't care less what was going on outside of the concourse. It made sense why it looked so empty with empty seats scattered everywhere throughout the stadium. My friend mentioned that he's never seen anything like it. He said no one goes to watch the game. :o: Made me a little embarrassed, but maybe it was just one bad night. :(:
I know it sucks to see people at the park that don't give a damn about the game, but you have to remember that as a fan, you're going to see some people like that in a packed park. A good team in town becomes a social event. That's not a bad thing. Each of those jagbags on benches yapping it up are paying money to be there. That equals revenue. That equals tasty additions to your ball club. It's the price of popularity. We're just not used to that on the south side.

Jurr
05-16-2005, 07:20 AM
I'll tell you a really cool place to see a game with every fan doing it up right. That's Heinz field, during a Steelers game. Number one, they have no cheerleaders, which is based on the Steelers' viewpoint that people should be watching the game, not the girls. How ballsy is that?

Number two, there is a conduct policy that's enforced by all of the fans in the seats. You can't get up and disturb the fans in the seats unless there's a stoppage of play (incomplete pass, etc.) or some kind of timeout. I have been to several Steelers games, and it's remarkable to see someone try to get up and leave right in the middle of a play. They either get a beer shower or they get some big burly guy with no shirt reminding them of the "gentleman's agreement"

FedEx227
05-16-2005, 08:36 AM
Number two, there is a conduct policy that's enforced by all of the fans in the seats. You can't get up and disturb the fans in the seats unless there's a stoppage of play (incomplete pass, etc.) or some kind of timeout. I have been to several Steelers games, and it's remarkable to see someone try to get up and leave right in the middle of a play. They either get a beer shower or they get some big burly guy with no shirt reminding them of the "gentleman's agreement"

God bless them, the drunken yuppies in the 5 rows in front of me/the row got up at least 9 times throughout the game, ALL during the middle of the inning, including all standing up to decide who was going to get beer causing me to completely miss about half the plays of the game.

Procol Harum
05-16-2005, 09:20 AM
I was at Sunday's game in section 118 and there was some mid-20's maroon wearing a navy blue hoodie w/ "New York" emblazoned thereon who made a point of just standing in the aisle for 4-5 minutes, trying to remember where he had been sitting. He didn't block my view but it was annoying knowing that he was obscuring others' views. Then about the 8th or 9th inning this same schmuck--with his glove--missed a foul ball that bounced back to the guy right behind him. He then acted as if somehow the guy should give him the ball, because it had been his. Quite comical to hear folks yelling at him to sit down and explaining that he had missed the ball and the other guy had picked it up--that was why the other fellow had the ball and he didn't....:?:

daveeym
05-16-2005, 09:23 AM
Number two, there is a conduct policy that's enforced by all of the fans in the seats. You can't get up and disturb the fans in the seats unless there's a stoppage of play (incomplete pass, etc.) or some kind of timeout. I have been to several Steelers games, and it's remarkable to see someone try to get up and leave right in the middle of a play. They either get a beer shower or they get some big burly guy with no shirt reminding them of the "gentleman's agreement" That's been my general experience at a Bears game as well.

To the original poster, for obnoxious and excessive swearing by fans, I recommend some leeway in innings 1-3, feel the guy out. Say something after that if it's bad and pull out the kid card whether you have kids or not, MOST guys will back off at that point (unless it's obnoxious teens or college kids, feel free to get an usher ASAP). Then grab an usher, they definitley keep an eye on the offensive asses then and will toss em if they get saucy about it.

Oh and by the way, everyone in your section is in agreement with you and all silently thanking you for getting the usher's on them. If you get the ass removed you'll get an ovation from the section as well if the guys really that bad. If you can get a kick him out chant going it works wonders as well. I was at a game a few years ago and my one roomate started a kick him out chant and got my other roommate removed from the park.

ondafarm
05-16-2005, 09:28 AM
I was at Sunday's game in section 118 and there was some mid-20's maroon wearing a navy blue hoodie w/ "New York" emblazoned thereon who made a point of just standing in the aisle for 4-5 minutes, trying to remember where he had been sitting. He didn't block my view but it was annoying knowing that he was obscuring others' views. Then about the 8th or 9th inning this same schmuck--with his glove--missed a foul ball that bounced back to the guy right behind him. He then acted as if somehow the guy should give him the ball, because it had been his. Quite comical to hear folks yelling at him to sit down and explaining that he had missed the ball and the other guy had picked it up--that was why the other fellow had the ball and he didn't....:?:

PH, I must have just missed you (guess you didn't see me doing the Banana Dance.) I was in section 116 and I saw that moron, he actually came over and blocked my view for awhile. I was in perfect position to get one foul ball until it struck a beer vendor. I guess that's fate.

There were several Orioles fans around me, none acting like jerks though. Hey, when I lived in Raleigh, NC, I drove up to Baltimore to see the Sox there. I can't blame their fans for coming out at all.

Overall, I thought it was a great series. A split with the team thats been killing the rest of the league and we loose no ground on the Twinkies (still 5 ahead.)

Eddie Gaedel
05-16-2005, 09:33 AM
I know it sucks to see people at the park that don't give a damn about the game, but you have to remember that as a fan, you're going to see some people like that in a packed park. A good team in town becomes a social event. That's not a bad thing. Each of those jagbags on benches yapping it up are paying money to be there. That equals revenue. That equals tasty additions to your ball club. It's the price of popularity. We're just not used to that on the south side.

i agree 100%. WSI'ers complain when the park is empty and then complain when the park is full. there's always idiots in a crowd. you either rise above and ignore it or if it's bad enough, get security to hanlde it. everyone has the right to be an idiot.

RavenswoodFan
05-16-2005, 09:33 AM
I was in 552 also! What a Buffoon! I really think this kid was a Cub fan he was as obnoxious as they come! He proudly proclaimed he had drank 15 beers. At the rate they charged for those things I hope he broke the piggy bank and doesn't show up again!:angry:

LVSoxFan
05-16-2005, 09:38 AM
I agree with getting the ushers/security. Look, this is OUR park and WE'RE the fans so I don't think you should ever have to leave your seats just to get away from some jagoff who's making a scene. I'm 99% sure that everybody sitting around you is thinking the same thing.

As far as people socializing on the concourse and not watching the game; that's always going to be there. There's lots of people who go to games just for the all-around experience--they don't have to see every pitch. I don't condemn them; as long as they don't hamper other fans' viewing, they can do what they want.

As for the jerk who threw back the HR yesterday... LOL. I just posted about those people last week! I was in RF when I saw that thing go sailing out... then, when it came back on the field, I thought: ***?! Since when do Sox fans start doing this? Figures it wasn't.

I hate that--it is so Cubs-like and cliched.

Church Turtle
05-16-2005, 09:53 AM
Unless the foul-mouthed person has already lubricated himself a bit much, a polite request to watch his language will probably work. But don't be afraid to play the usher card. He paid to be there, but you did too. If you aren't having an enjoyable time because of this guy there are probably others (the silen majority mentioned in a previous post).

As for the WAVE thing. I was at a Springfield Cardinals minor league game one time, oh close to 15 years ago, and there were these two drunken bozos that were trying to start the wave. (For those of you not familiar with Lanphier park in Springfield, there are no outfield seats, so the wave, if it's started, would last from just past first base around to a little past third.) So these two guys are trying to get it started, and they keep imploring the fans around them to jump up at the appropriate time, etc.
In front of my wife and I is this guy wearing a sport coat and slacks. He's got a Van Dyke goatee combo in silver/brown and he's sipping a Coke off an on. He's got a clip board, and...yes a radar gun. He's a scout from some team other than the Cards, it's very obvious to my wife and I. And to be honest, it's fascinating just watching him make notes following each pitch. These two hon-yocks see that he's not participating in the wave so one of them confronts him. "Hey, man. Do the wave with us, man."
The scout makes another note on his clip board and calmly says "I HATE the wave" and returns to watching the game. My wife and I laughed heartily as Mr. Wave-starter slinked back to his drunken pal.
Not that I'm anti-wave, but these guys weren't paying any attention to the game at all.

ChicagoHoosier
05-16-2005, 10:30 AM
Did anyone notice the large number of people caught on the "fan cam" yacking away on their cell phones? Almost seemed like I was in the wrong ball park. Most fans saw they were on TV and waved, but there were several who never even noticed. Just funny to see that. Something that is very commonplace on the northside.

soxfan123
05-16-2005, 10:38 AM
I was in 552 also! What a Buffoon! I really think this kid was a Cub fan he was as obnoxious as they come! He proudly proclaimed he had drank 15 beers. At the rate they charged for those things I hope he broke the piggy bank and doesn't show up again!:angry:

Row 16, how about you?

skottyj242
05-16-2005, 10:47 AM
I was in 158 on Saturday night and almost passed out because I was yelling so hard and loud at these two bozo's that tried to start the wave. I was glad I wasn't drinking (it was too cold) because I didn't let any f-bombs slip, especially because there were kids around. My buddy told me that he's never seen me that red in the face and just over all mad in the six years we've known each oher.

Procol Harum
05-16-2005, 06:23 PM
PH, I must have just missed you (guess you didn't see me doing the Banana Dance.) I was in section 116 and I saw that moron, he actually came over and blocked my view for awhile. I was in perfect position to get one foul ball until it struck a beer vendor. I guess that's fate.

There were several Orioles fans around me, none acting like jerks though. Hey, when I lived in Raleigh, NC, I drove up to Baltimore to see the Sox there. I can't blame their fans for coming out at all.

Overall, I thought it was a great series. A split with the team thats been killing the rest of the league and we loose no ground on the Twinkies (still 5 ahead.)

Onda, we must've been pretty close, I saw several Orioles fans over in that direction. Like you, I don't blame their fans for coming out--especially as this is the first spurt of actual good baseball they've played in several years.

SoxyStu
05-16-2005, 06:36 PM
Wasn't very classy, but on Saturday's game...Jesse Jackson strolled by and a fan, after Jesse sauntered by, jumped up and flipped him the bird.

Whether you agree with the statement made by that fan, the group nearby was well behaved. Its been a long while that I had a conflict with neighboring fans.

Harry Chappas
05-17-2005, 11:36 AM
There was a real obnoxious Afro American guy in the section over on Thursday night. He was wearing all Orioles gear, which I don't mind since he paid to get in, but I hate when they have to be jags. First off, he kept saying that we start this way every year and we all knew we wouldn't be there in the end, it'd be the "Red Sox, Yankees, or Cardinals". I don't really care about other's opinions, but it really got annoying when every other word out of his mouth was MFer or God-D, and he was screaming it too, it was real uncomforable and embarrasing for families around, he settled down after a secuirty guard talked to him for a little. I don't care if Flub or opposing fans want to come in the park, even if they have to wear their gear, but why they feel they have the right to act like extreme jags is beyond me. A few ruin it for everyone, there's always going to be at least one person like this

At the risk of sounding like a PC cop, what does the guy's race have to do with your argument, which is otherwise legit? It seems like an unnecessary detail...

EastCoastSoxFan
05-20-2005, 09:25 AM
...I was in the left field lower deck bleachers at a game at Old Comiskey in 1990 shortly after the Ron Kittle-for-Phil Bradley trade, and some guy in the upper deck in foul territory started getting on PB's case for no apparent reason. He was yelling stuff like, "You suck, bring back Kittle..." until a big (and at least moderately lubricated) guy in my section with a booming voice spotted the offender and yelled, "HEY, UPPER DECK -- SHUT UP!!!" Then to PB, "DON'T LISTEN TO THAT ****. WE LOVE YOU, PHIL..." When the obnoxious guy in foul territory kept getting on PB, the big guy started trying to get everybody in our section chanting "UPPER DECK SUCKS! UPPER DECK SUCKS!"
What a riot. Even Phil Bradley was laughing...

MIgrenade
05-20-2005, 09:47 AM
I was in 158 on Saturday night and almost passed out because I was yelling so hard and loud at these two bozo's that tried to start the wave. I was glad I wasn't drinking (it was too cold) because I didn't let any f-bombs slip, especially because there were kids around. My buddy told me that he's never seen me that red in the face and just over all mad in the six years we've known each oher.

Was it in 2000 that people did the wave al the time? My guess is yes because the stadium was full...but they were doing it while the Sox were in the field. IIRC, the wave is intended as a distration for the fielding team in its original design. I seem to remember Hawk or Rooney pointing it out and telling people not to do it. I don't get why the wave HAS to start every time we have more than 25,000 fans. I hate it. I'd rather have 15,000 and no wave and no lines for food.

mikehuff
05-20-2005, 09:56 AM
I went to a game a few years ago against the Yankees (5/28/02.) This was Robin Ventura's first game back at Comiskey. I got the tickets at the window right before the game and the best seats were way up there in the upper deck. My girlfiend and I sat right in the middle of about 15 drunk and obnoxius college kids. I lasted one inning up there and then we went to look for other seats. At the time Danny Wright was getting hammered which made me even more pissed.
They just implimented the upper deck lockout on big games then. This was the first time since they started that with the Cubs games. Anyway, the place was completely sold out and there was nowhere to go, not even in the upper corners of the upper deck. It was so bad that we had to leave, just that quick. I don't think it was any later than the 2nd and that's unthinkable for me. I have tried to avoid the upper deck since then and have only sat up there on rare occasions.
I've noticed the bleachers even getting kind of bad during sold out games too. I don't really like to sit out there when it's that nuts.