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davenicholson
05-13-2005, 07:32 AM
Finally got to see US Cellular Field in HD last night, and all I can say is WOW!. I didn't get home until the 7th inning, but what a treat to see the ballyard in HD and to hear Hawk, DJ, Robin and the crowd! in 5.1 surround. This makes me even more eager to drag my 6 year-old sports fanatic (Little davenicholson) to a game.

Realist
05-13-2005, 07:40 AM
I've had the dough to buy an HDTV for a few months now and I was planning on having one before opening day. Your post just lit a fire under my procrastinating hump and I'll probably get one by Sunday or Monday.

I suppose I wouldn't have waited so long if I had some NHL playoffs to watch. :(:

davenicholson
05-13-2005, 07:50 AM
I've had the dough to buy an HDTV for a few months now and I was planning on having one before opening day. Your post just lit a fire under my procrastinating hump and I'll probably get one by Sunday or Monday.

I suppose I wouldn't have waited so long if I had some NHL playoffs to watch. :(:
Realist,
You are right about the NHL. HDNet was showing some games from last year, and hockey, with the bright ice and loud arenas was *made* for HD. Not to get too nerdy, but if you watch a lot of sports, I would recommend DLP over LCD, as long as the rainbow effect doesn't bother you. Unless you can afford plasma. :cool: But either way, make sure you make your purchase before October--gotta catch the Sox in the playoffs in HD!!!:gulp:

mrwag
05-13-2005, 07:53 AM
Is WGN in HD now? Sorry if this is common knowledge, but I moved out of town and am not real current on some events. I just have a reqular TV with Digital Cable, but I could have sworn last night's broadcast seemed a bit sharper than usual.

Realist
05-13-2005, 08:03 AM
Realist,
You are right about the NHL. HDNet was showing some games from last year, and hockey, with the bright ice and loud arenas was *made* for HD. Not to get too nerdy, but if you watch a lot of sports, I would recommend DLP over LCD, as long as the rainbow effect doesn't bother you. Unless you can afford plasma. :cool: But either way, make sure you make your purchase before October--gotta catch the Sox in the playoffs in HD!!!:gulp:

Right now I'm leaning towards a 42" Sony plasma HDTV but I gotta make a call to a buddy that is an audio/video freakazoid and used to work at United Audio before it became Tweeter before I make the investment.

Is there a better plasma HDTV at a better deal out there that any of you folks know about?

SSN721
05-13-2005, 08:03 AM
Is WGN in HD now? Sorry if this is common knowledge, but I moved out of town and am not real current on some events. I just have a reqular TV with Digital Cable, but I could have sworn last night's broadcast seemed a bit sharper than usual.

Yes it is and it looks fantastic. WGN HD is a very high quality broadcast. Highly recommend you get HD is you have the means, is definitely worth it for sports fans.

Realist
05-13-2005, 08:04 AM
Is WGN in HD now? Sorry if this is common knowledge, but I moved out of town and am not real current on some events. I just have a reqular TV with Digital Cable, but I could have sworn last night's broadcast seemed a bit sharper than usual.

All Sox home games on WGN are shown in HDTV. The same goes for Comcast's home Sox broadcasts.

HebrewHammer
05-13-2005, 08:05 AM
WGN HD is awesome, probably the best broadcast other than ESPN HD or the INHD channels, awesome stuff.

Comcast sucks, even their HD broadcast usually looks poor and WCIU and CLTV are just terrible.

SSN721
05-13-2005, 08:06 AM
Right now I'm leaning towards a 42" Sony plasma HDTV but I gotta make a call to a buddy that is an audio/video freakazoid and used to work at United Audio before it became Tweeter before I make the investment.

Is there a better plasma HDTV at a better deal out there that any of you folks know about?

Highly recommend the Samsung DLPs, everything I have read rates them the highest and I have the 50" version and it is the sharpest cleanest picture I have ever seen. havent heard too many good things about Sony. I have read/heard they have a high defect rate. I have nothing but superlatives for the samsung, it is phenomenal, and it cant burn out, only would have to replace the bulb in back at some point in its life. and I think those cost 50-100 bucks.

Realist
05-13-2005, 08:17 AM
Highly recommend the Samsung DLPs, everything I have read rates them the highest and I have the 50" version and it is the sharpest cleanest picture I have ever seen. havent heard too many good things about Sony. I have read/heard they have a high defect rate. I have nothing but superlatives for the samsung, it is phenomenal, and it cant burn out, only would have to replace the bulb in back at some point in its life. and I think those cost 50-100 bucks.

Thanks for the info, neighbor. I'll bring it up to my buddy when I call him.

Of course this whole conversation will be obsolete when the latest developments in nanotechnology are unleashed on us in the next two years.

Mickster
05-13-2005, 08:20 AM
Highly recommend the Samsung DLPs, everything I have read rates them the highest and I have the 50" version and it is the sharpest cleanest picture I have ever seen. havent heard too many good things about Sony. I have read/heard they have a high defect rate. I have nothing but superlatives for the samsung, it is phenomenal, and it cant burn out, only would have to replace the bulb in back at some point in its life. and I think those cost 50-100 bucks.

I recently purchased a 62" DLP and had Comcast in yesterday afternoon to install the HDTV box. Simply amazing!!! :gulp:

SSN721
05-13-2005, 08:22 AM
Thanks for the info, neighbor. I'll bring it up to my buddy when I call him.

Of course this whole conversation will be obsolete when the latest developments in nanotechnology are unleashed on us in the next two years.

Ha, you might be right. Although I really think DLP is BY FAR the best value for the money, I feel plasma is too sketchy for the money you have to invest, the DLP is such a simple system, easy to fix, adn the TVs are so slim and light, I think mine weighs maybe 80 lbs. For a 50" TV that is nothing. Well glad to pass it along, I am just speaking from owning one myself it is a fabulous TV.

SSN721
05-13-2005, 08:23 AM
I recently purchased a 62" DLP and had Comcast in yesterday afternoon to install the HDTV box. Simply amazing!!! :gulp:

Mmmmmm, 62" :D: WOw, that would dwarf the 50, what kind of TV is it? I dont think samsung makes one that big yet,I think they just relased a 60-61" though.

davenicholson
05-13-2005, 08:28 AM
Highly recommend the Samsung DLPs, everything I have read rates them the highest and I have the 50" version and it is the sharpest cleanest picture I have ever seen. havent heard too many good things about Sony. I have read/heard they have a high defect rate. I have nothing but superlatives for the samsung, it is phenomenal, and it cant burn out, only would have to replace the bulb in back at some point in its life. and I think those cost 50-100 bucks.
NERD TALK ALERT!
Ditto on the DLP. I have a 52" Toshiba, and have nothing but good to say about it. Plasma is nice, but just know that you can get a 50"+ screen if you go DLP or LCD for the less $$ than a 42" plasma. Also, note that Samsung has become the de facto reference brand when it comes to DLP. Unfortunately, you also pay for the name. For example, when I bought my Toshiba at Abt last November, my 52" Toshiba with the HD2+ chip was less expensive than the 50" Samsung with the HD2 (previous generation) chip. You may already know that Texas Instruments is the proprietary supplier of all DLP chips. My final word on Home Theater for now--IMO, the second most important component in a good HT, after the display, is the subwoofer. If you like movies and music (especially DVD-A or SACD :D: ), investing in a good subwoofer is a must.

Rocky Soprano
05-13-2005, 08:35 AM
Just like Tivo, I can no longer live without HD.

WGN's HD is awesome, Comcast also has a great feed. TNT also is awesome with the basketball playoffs games.

SSN721
05-13-2005, 08:41 AM
NERD TALK ALERT!
Ditto on the DLP. I have a 52" Toshiba, and have nothing but good to say about it. Plasma is nice, but just know that you can get a 50"+ screen if you go DLP or LCD for the less $$ than a 42" plasma. Also, note that Samsung has become the de facto reference brand when it comes to DLP. Unfortunately, you also pay for the name. For example, when I bought my Toshiba at Abt last November, my 52" Toshiba with the HD2+ chip was less expensive than the 50" Samsung with the HD2 (previous generation) chip. You may already know that Texas Instruments is the proprietary supplier of all DLP chips. My final word on Home Theater for now--IMO, the second most important component in a good HT, after the display, is the subwoofer. If you like movies and music (especially DVD-A or SACD :D: ), investing in a good subwoofer is a must.

Subwoofer definitely a key component (suprised this hasnt been moved to the parking lot yet) I have a yamaha one, it is a monster, but definitely makes the movie or television show you are watching, adds a lot of depth. Obviously that and good speakers, you cant skimp on that stuff, the surround sound in a box just wont cut it if you want a real home theatre.

SSN721
05-13-2005, 08:42 AM
Just like Tivo, I can no longer live without HD.

WGN's HD is awesome, Comcast also has a great feed. TNT also is awesome with the basketball playoffs games.

TNT has a great feed, looks fantastic. And I hate to say it but is great hearing Marv Alberts voice for playoff basketball. Just brings back a lot of good memories of the 90s.

wdelaney72
05-13-2005, 08:46 AM
I LOVE Marv Albert.

"Jordan for 3... YES!"

Mickster
05-13-2005, 08:58 AM
Mmmmmm, 62" :D: WOw, that would dwarf the 50, what kind of TV is it? I dont think samsung makes one that big yet,I think they just relased a 60-61" though.

Got the 62" Toshiba with the Texas Instruments HD2+ DLP Chip.

http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/tacpassets-images/models/62hmx94/web/62hmx94_cldefault.jpg

SSN721
05-13-2005, 09:14 AM
Got the 62" Toshiba with the Texas Instruments HD2+ DLP Chip.

http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/tacpassets-images/models/62hmx94/web/62hmx94_cldefault.jpg

Very nice, did you get the "optional stand" for probably only another 399.99 as well?:D:

SSN721
05-13-2005, 09:15 AM
I LOVE Marv Albert.

"Jordan for 3... YES!"

FROM DOOOOWWWNTOWN!:smile:

davenicholson
05-13-2005, 09:29 AM
Got the 62" Toshiba with the Texas Instruments HD2+ DLP Chip.

http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/tacpassets-images/models/62hmx94/web/62hmx94_cldefault.jpg
Nice, Mickster!!! I had the guy writing up the paperwork for this one, but backed down and got the 52". Turns out it was the right decision, because my viewing distance is ~10', and the 52 is just right. Also, with those darnded vestigial speakers, I don't think it would have fit through my basement door! And I do love that optional stand!

mweflen
05-13-2005, 09:45 AM
More Nerd Alerts!
http://www.hometheatermag.com/images/archivesart/204faceoff.52.jpg

I wouldn't discount Rear Projection LCD in your HDTV search. In addition to having no rainbow effects, there are many who would say the image is a little warmer and less "noisy" and DLP. They are also generally a few hundred cheaper per size. I have a 42" Sony Grand Wega (see above), and haven't had one second thought about it.

I recommend going to CNET.com and reading up on HDTV before you buy. See what you need and what models you might be interested in. Samsung and Mitsubishi DLP's are nice, JVC's D-ILA is becoming more popular, and Sony and Hitachi LCD's are very popular as well. New models are also coming out soon, so waiting may be advisable.

WGN's HD signal is a little better than Comcast's, IMHO, but they are both pretty good. WGN is a little washed out sometimes, but Comcast suffers from a little more pixelization. Either way though, they're both worlds better than the crappy feeds we get on standard cable (especially from Tampa Bay and Detroit!).

converted
05-13-2005, 01:06 PM
whats the rainbow effect? :?:

fincher
05-13-2005, 01:13 PM
All Sox home games on WGN are shown in HDTV. The same goes for Comcast's home Sox broadcasts.

Correct. The only time we don't get 'em in HD is when WCIU or CLTV gets the game. Eventually, there will be a CSN+ with an HD feed.

WGN does a great job with HD. Comcast's is a shade below WGN. ESPN is excellent. I do like the fact CSN upconverts its signal to 16:9 for SportsNite and other studio shows. The only thing CSN needs to do is add graphics to the bars on the side when showing 4:3 standard highlights. WGN and ESPN do it and there's no reason Comcast can't do it.

Cat Thief
05-13-2005, 01:14 PM
I have a Sony 51" rear projection with Comcast HD. It kicks ass and its over 2 years old.

The WGN HD feed is far superior (IMHO) than Comcast. Half of the time Comcast isn't even 16:9. TNT HD is also very nice. I actually prefer CBS over ESPN.

mweflen
05-13-2005, 01:22 PM
whats the rainbow effect? :?:

Okay, let me put on my propeller-beanie here for a second...

With DLP sets, a minority of poeple with sensitive vision can see trails of color following high contrast images on the screen. I have 20/20 vision, and I see the rainbows easily.

The easiest way to test if you can see them on a DLP set is to watch the credits of a movie - white text scrolling up a black screen. As you move your eyes around the screen to read the text, you may notice color trails following the text.

It can get fatiguing on the eyes after a while, and cause headaches in the people who can see them. My eyes feel tired after about 5 minutes of watching a DLP set.

It is caused by the viewer perceiving the spinning of the color wheel in the set. DLP sets use a color wheel to separate white light reflected off of the DLP micromirror chip, while LCD sets shine light through an LCD panel, which is full color as is, thus no rainbow effect.

All that said, DLP sets create a very sharp and colorful picture which is way superior to CRT sets. If you don't see rainbows or aren't bothered by them, you should definitely consider them.

fincher
05-13-2005, 01:24 PM
I have a 42" Fujitsu HD plasma from The Little Guys in Glenwood. Great store! Shameless plug. I use Comcast HD cable.

Anyway, CBS, NBC, WGN, Comcast and INHD use 1080i. Fox, ESPN, ABC use 720p. Not sure what TNT uses but it does look primo. There are differences between 1080i and 720p, but for the most part you cannot tell. ESPN chose 720p because it does handle motion better than 1080i. But the reality is, compression and a host of other factors determines the picture quality, which is why some broadcasts look better than others. CBS does a great job with HD, especially with college football.

I used to really care about 1080i vs. 720p but it doesnt mean beans to the end-user.

mweflen
05-13-2005, 01:27 PM
Yeah, 720p v. 1080i is a non-issue because most networks' and cable companies' HD signals are pretty crappy to begin with (loaded with pixelization and motion artifacts). ABC's "720p" is a joke. It looks like someone smeared vaseline onthe camera lens.

It's only with really good signals that you can tell the difference. 720p looks more "solid" while 1080i has a little bit more fine detail.

fincher - where are the TNT and UPN HD stations? I cannot find them with my Comcast cable box.

fincher
05-13-2005, 01:36 PM
I'm not as home but I think TNT HD is 204. I'm not aware of a UPN HD channel. I programmed all of the available HD channels as the only entries for my Favorites button.

Some refer to 1080i as being "softer" and better for movies or sitcoms. 720p is sharper but you can tell its not as sharp on wide-angle shots such as seeing the entire field. Up close, though, its stunning.

Rocklive99
05-13-2005, 01:36 PM
Does anyone else hate how WLS/ABC stretches everything? Everyone has that option, they can do that if they want...

Sigh, and all that multicasting that takes away from the HD quality, if I want the weather I'll go online!

fincher
05-13-2005, 01:41 PM
Does anyone else hate how WLS/ABC stretches everything? Everyone has that option, they can do that if they want...

Actually, I like it a lot. Upconverting to 16:9 has minimal stretching compared to the options of stretching the standard signal while making the picture much clearer than the standard signal. You still have the choice of watching channel 7 or channel 187 upconverted (if you're on Comcast).

I wish CBS and NBC did the same.

mweflen
05-13-2005, 01:52 PM
I don't like the way ABC stretches the news broadcast like that. Blech. I am an aspect ratio snob, though :D:

davenicholson
05-13-2005, 02:09 PM
Okay, let me put on my propeller-beanie here for a second...

With DLP sets, a minority of poeple with sensitive vision can see trails of color following high contrast images on the screen. I have 20/20 vision, and I see the rainbows easily.

The easiest way to test if you can see them on a DLP set is to watch the credits of a movie - white text scrolling up a black screen. As you move your eyes around the screen to read the text, you may notice color trails following the text.

It can get fatiguing on the eyes after a while, and cause headaches in the people who can see them. My eyes feel tired after about 5 minutes of watching a DLP set.

It is caused by the viewer perceiving the spinning of the color wheel in the set. DLP sets use a color wheel to separate white light reflected off of the DLP micromirror chip, while LCD sets shine light through an LCD panel, which is full color as is, thus no rainbow effect.

All that said, DLP sets create a very sharp and colorful picture which is way superior to CRT sets. If you don't see rainbows or aren't bothered by them, you should definitely consider them.
The last study I read stated that about 5% of the population notices the rainbow effect, and about a third of those are really bothered by it. These numbers will go down as the technology matures--for instance, the HD2+ chip has a 7-segment color wheel (as opposed to a 5 and then 6-segment), spinning faster, both of which minimize the effect. I actually made myself see the effect while watching an episode of Combat!--black and white, of course, and the episode had a lot of high-contrast nighttime scenes. Since then, I notice it once in awhile, like during rolling credits, but that's about it. No one else in my family sees it, thank goodness! And DLP as opposed to LCD rear projections has blacker blacks and better contrast. It also doesn't suffer from "dead pixels" and the screen door effect that LCD sets can. To each their own. But by all means, shop around for the technology (and price!) that you prefer.:smile:

mweflen
05-13-2005, 02:42 PM
DLP chips will certainly mature as each gen of TV's comes out. They have the inherent advantage with black levels of being reflective instead of transmissive.

(for those not in the know, DLP chips are a tiny chip with hundreds of thousands of microscopic mirrors on the surface, each of which physically move to change the amount of light they reflect, creating a picture.)

LCD is probably on the way out eventually, but not for a good 5 years or more - they are cheap and easy to produce relatively speaking, and the best of them almost match DLP for black level, and are superior in terms of color fidelity (as of right now).

LCOS (liquid crystal on silicon) is a reflective technology which promised to merge the best aspects of both. Sony's "Qualia" set has been getting industry reviews which pretty much demolish both LCD and current DLP sets. Unfortunately, the Qualia RPTV is $13,000!

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=7&article_id=810&page_number=1