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mikehuff
05-13-2005, 07:32 AM
This is getting ridiculous. Take a look at these hitters in the middle of the lineup...

- Rowand - .248
- Konkerko - .197
- Dye - .190

Seriously, there needs to be a change. I know they are winning, but there needs to be a reshuffling of the order. If I brought this up after a few loses I might be accused of the classic, "Why weren't you saying that when they were winning?" Well, I know they're winning, but this isn't helping. They are lucky to be winning with this lack of production.

I liked the idea of having Rowand 3rd last night and I think that might help his average, but we can't have all three of those guys in a row. TWO OF THEM ARE HITTING BELOW .200! That belongs at the end of the lineup, and even then it's still horrible. The worst thing is that Konerko and Dye haven't shown any sign that they are going to pull out of these slumps. With Crede and Uribe hitting so well, there is no reason you can't move Dye even further down or pull him out of the line up completely. What team have you even seen that keeps a .190 hitter in the #5 spot, especially if the cleanup hitter is hitting .197? I don't see a reason for Dye hitting #5. None. At least Konerko has hit a few homeruns and he can maybe hit a homerun by mistake.
Someone mentioned that Konerko has morphed into Rob Deer, which is perfect.
I hope Ozzie is paying attention because my patience has run out on Dye. I don't know how much longer he's going to wait.

elrod
05-13-2005, 07:39 AM
If you're going to make a change, it should be to move Dye down to the 7 or 8 hole, and Uribe up to the 5. Rowand is a good 3. The lineup I'd like to see for awhile is:

Podsednik
Iguchi
Rowand
Konerko
Uribe
Everett
Crede
Dye
Pierzynski

The only reason to keep Uribe at the bottom is so we can turn the lineup over with Pods and Iguchi up with men on base. But AJ is a great 9 hitter too.

mikehuff
05-13-2005, 07:47 AM
Podsednik
Iguchi
Rowand
Konerko
Uribe
Everett
Crede
Dye
Pierzynski


I like it but I think Dye should be out of the lineup completely. Gload, Timo and Ozuna should split up his time. Do you think those three would hit worse than .190? There's nothing to lose. Also, Guillen should have no fear of getting Konerko's ass out of the way.

How about...

Podsednik
Iguchi
Rowand
Everett
Uribe
Crede
Konerko
Gload
Pierzynski

Realist
05-13-2005, 07:50 AM
I like this line up:

Podsednik
Iguchi
Everett
Crede
Rowand
Pierzynski
Konerko
Dye
Uribe
Take the pressure off of Konerko and Dye and let them smack the hell outta the ball so much that they must be moved higher up in the line up.

Having Crede and Rowand in the 4-5 slots can't hurt any worse than Konerko and Dye and the whole "taking the pressure off" thingy struck gold with Garland. Why not give it a rub?

Then again, there's the whole "If it ain't broke, why fix it?" thing to consider. Aw hell. I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. Go Sox!

:bandance:

Infallible
05-13-2005, 07:54 AM
Keep ARow he's doing the same damage as the rest

Borchard for Paulie

Willie Harris for Dye


And the WS is in the bag.........

mikehuff
05-13-2005, 07:59 AM
Then again, there's the whole "If it ain't broke, why fix it?" thing to consider. Aw hell. I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. Go Sox!


I like your lineup, but don't believe in that "If it ain't broke" crap.
We are winning, but this isn't the reason. Pretty soon, this will be the reason why we are losing. It's common sense. These guys can't hit, there's no reason why they should be getting more at bats that people who can. It's not like they are just hitting .250 or something. Right now Jason Giambi is hitting .195 and they moved him to #8 in the order and they want to send him to the minors. We have TWO guys hitting .190 and .197 and they are #4 and #5 in our order! My God! Can't Ozzie see this!?
Also, someone please post an opinion on why Dye should be in the lineup over either Timo, Gload or Ozuna?

Jjav829
05-13-2005, 08:34 AM
Also, someone please post an opinion on why Dye should be in the lineup over either Timo, Gload or Ozuna?

Gload is on the DL, and Timo and Ozuna suck.

JRIG
05-13-2005, 08:44 AM
Gload is on the DL, and Timo and Ozuna suck.

Details, details..... :cool:

34 Inch Stick
05-13-2005, 09:09 AM
The change will come in June. His name is Frank Thomas. Have patience with Dye right now while we can afford it. When Thomas comes back, if Dye does is not playing better (he has sucked in the field as well), Crazy Carl is the new outfielder.The shakeup at that time will be interesting. Do you put Carl in right to hide his deficiencies? If so does Rowand move to left because Pods doesn't have the arm for the position? Ozzie should be putting on the thinking cap because these moves are imminent.

MisterB
05-13-2005, 09:29 AM
Keep ARow he's doing the same damage as the rest

Borchard for Paulie

Willie Harris for Dye


And the WS is in the bag.........

Either this post needs teal or you need to take your meds.

MIgrenade
05-13-2005, 09:43 AM
Gload is on the DL, and Timo and Ozuna suck.

Dye isn't Vlad. I don't see any problem with giving Timo a few extra at bats. At least he can bunt and we won't have to worry about more double plays.
I really wish Ozzie would make a little change though because these two are a problem...and can't we jsut have an official Dye and Konerko complaint thread? One of these pops-up every day seems like.

voodoochile
05-13-2005, 09:50 AM
Gload is on the DL, and Timo and Ozuna suck.

But fortunately Frank is due back in a couple of weeks...:D:

MeanFish
05-13-2005, 10:03 AM
Either this post needs teal or you need to take your meds.

Personally, I think he's got the wrong AAA outfielder on that list. If there's a chance for him to get regular playing time, Brian Anderson is looking right now like he might be able to handle the spot quite passably.

And if Konerko REALLY needs help, Everett can always play first. So can Gload, for that matter. Heck, I bet Widger could do it too.

So, I'm proposing, if all things remain equal, a post-Thomas-return lineup of:

Podsednik
Iguchi
Rowand
Thomas
Everett
Uribe
Crede
Pierzynski/Widger
Anderson

I'm not too sure about the order, but it could work.

Frater Perdurabo
05-13-2005, 10:06 AM
So, I'm proposing, if all things remain equal, a post-Thomas-return lineup of:

Podsednik
Iguchi
Rowand
Thomas
Everett
Uribe
Crede
Pierzynski/Widger
Anderson

I'm not too sure about the order, but it could work.

With all due respect to you and to Rowand, I want Frank batting third.

Flight #24
05-13-2005, 10:14 AM
Personally, I think he's got the wrong AAA outfielder on that list. If there's a chance for him to get regular playing time, Brian Anderson is looking right now like he might be able to handle the spot quite passably.

And if Konerko REALLY needs help, Everett can always play first. So can Gload, for that matter. Heck, I bet Widger could do it too.

So, I'm proposing, if all things remain equal, a post-Thomas-return lineup of:

Podsednik
Iguchi
Rowand
Thomas
Everett
Uribe
Crede
Pierzynski/Widger
Anderson

I'm not too sure about the order, but it could work.

I can almost 100% guarantee that they'll give Konerko a chance to turn things around with Frank batting in front of him. Pods-Iguchi-Frank offer Paulie a chance at having .370-.380-.400 OBPs setting him up. I.e. lots of fastballs, and hopefully lots of fireworks.:bandance:

mcfish
05-13-2005, 10:19 AM
This thread sucks. Dye is still a better option than last year's crappy rotation, offensively and defensively. Dye had a defensive hiccup for a few games, but he's been fine since, and he is a former gold glove winner. Remember the million threads about Gload's crappy defense in the outfield? Timo? If we wanted him to start in RF, we wouldn't have signed Dye. Ozuna is a great backup, but not your every day starting RF! Plus we need him as infield backup.

Give Dye at least until Frank's return to work himself out of his slump. If he doesn't, then play Everett in right and Thomas takes Dye's spot. He is the only person listed that would be worth removing Dye from the lineup for.

mccoydp
05-13-2005, 10:23 AM
Keep ARow he's doing the same damage as the rest

Borchard for Paulie

Willie Harris for Dye


And the WS is in the bag.........

Borchard's really good at flyouts, lineouts, and strikeouts.

mikehuff
05-13-2005, 10:26 AM
- First of all Timo and Ozuna wouldn't be hitting .190. Right there you have an improvement. I wouldn't start a season with one of those guys as my RF, but right now Dye sucks and we need an improvement. I haven't seen a starting outfielder so bad since Julio Ramirez.

- Gload is not permanenly disabled either. He's within days of coming back. I was aware that he's on the DL, and I was suggesting that he take Dye's spot when he comes back

- The though of Anderson in RF is very interesting, I like that idea as well

- MCFISH - you can downplay this all you want but a team with a .197 hitter batting #4 and a .190 hitter batting #5 can't last long. The whole point is that we have two huge holes right next to each other in a light hitting lineup, not one guy in a slump who can be hidden in a lineup like the 1927 Yankees. Thomas coming back does change this though. That will probably take care of most of this problem, but in the meantime, the order should at least be reshuffled. Dye has done nothing to earn that #5 spot and that many at bats.

MeanFish
05-13-2005, 10:43 AM
I can almost 100% guarantee that they'll give Konerko a chance to turn things around with Frank batting in front of him. Pods-Iguchi-Frank offer Paulie a chance at having .370-.380-.400 OBPs setting him up. I.e. lots of fastballs, and hopefully lots of fireworks.:bandance:

I'd love nothing more than Paulie turning it around and destroying the ball again.

balke
05-13-2005, 11:15 AM
Its obvious to me we should have Iguchi batting second, and Willie batting third, with Widger hitting Clean-up and DHing. When is Ozzie going to wake up?

Deadguy
05-13-2005, 11:39 AM
Konerko continues to show what an unreliable schmuck he is when his production is needed. He disappeared in 2003 when we finished 4 games behind the Twins, and he's fallen flat on his face and embarassed himself once again. He's supposed to be the anchor of this lineup, and he is hitting .197!

This better be his last sesaon on the SS. Get us a real firstbaseman, not a glorified Brian Daubach, 8.5 million dollar waste of space.

I piity the team that gives "The Great White Nope" a contract in the off season.

mcfish
05-13-2005, 12:32 PM
- MCFISH - you can downplay this all you want but a team with a .197 hitter batting #4 and a .190 hitter batting #5 can't last long. The whole point is that we have two huge holes right next to each other in a light hitting lineup, not one guy in a slump who can be hidden in a lineup like the 1927 Yankees. Thomas coming back does change this though. That will probably take care of most of this problem, but in the meantime, the order should at least be reshuffled. Dye has done nothing to earn that #5 spot and that many at bats.Personally, I just don't think it's a big enough deal with all the winning and all that we can't give them a chance to work their way out of their slumps. Moving Dye down from #5 - that I agree with, as long as Ozzie talks to him and he thinks that it won't make him all pissed off or somehow make him hit worse. The only part of that I don't like is that the bottom of our lineup has been very productive for use - send him in there and it's effectiveness could be down during Dye's slump. Benching Dye I don't agree with at all, partly because I just don't see a better option. I really don't think Timo would bat all that much better every day - is .230 - .250 better than a slumping .190 that we hope improves to .285? Especially now that Frank seems close being ready, giving Dye the last 3 weeks to make good shouldn't be a big deal. If he's still under .220 in when Frank returns, by all means play Everett in the outfield and Thomas DH and Dye fills in for the occasional Thomas day off because he's coming off the DL. That's probably what's going to happen, so let's hope it doesn't affect the clubhouse chemistry too much.

Paulie just isn't coming out of the lineup and he's not moving down further than 5, so there's no use discussing it. Not until at least the All-Star break. If he's under .200 at the All-Star break and less than 10th in the league in homers, then maybe Ozzie might consider doing something about Paulie, but until then Ozzie will not mess with Konerko.

NorthlakeTom
05-13-2005, 12:42 PM
Keep ARow he's doing the same damage as the rest

Borchard for Paulie

Willie Harris for Dye


And the WS is in the bag.........
Borchard for Konerko is insane. What do you propose? Sending Pauly to AAA?

Now, Harris for Dye sounds like a reasonable move. Willie was effective in center last year, and he may be able to handle right as well.

Lillian
05-13-2005, 01:31 PM
It's hard to dislike "Paulie". He's such a good guy, and takes his work so seriously, perhaps too seriously at times. However, I am personally just so tired of these prolonged periods of no production. Except for the homers, he has been just awful. Last year was the first time in three years that he managed to achieve some degree of consistency. Even then, he only had 63 extra base hits, which included just 22 doubles, and no triples. Given that he has no speed, and is only an average fielder, mainly due to his limited range, he really has to hit 41 homers, as he did last year, just to be an adequate player at a power position like first.
I don't know what they should do with the current situation, but I am not in favor of spending the kind of money that will be required to resign him. He can get hot and be a real force, but when he is going bad, it is just a total bust. He'll probably have a great streak or two before the season is over, but I said before the season started, that I wouldn't have minded trading him if we had been able to get the pitching that we wanted at that time. Now that we have the pitching, we don't need to think of trading him for another arm, but I can't see spending a lot of money to resign him.
This is all very disappointing, as he has always had such great promise. I remember reading the scouting reports on him when he was still in the Dodger farm system, and I was so elated when the Sox acquired him for Mike Cameron. I think that he has had enough time to finally establish himself as a consistent offense star, and has just not gotten it done.
Let's hope he can get it going, but let's also hope that the Sox spend the money elsewhere for the future.

Ol' No. 2
05-13-2005, 01:39 PM
A big problem with Konerko is having no protection behind him. No pitcher in his right mind is going to throw him anything he can hit. Once Everett is healthy, I would put him behind PK and move Rowand to #3.

Podsednik
Iguchi
Rowand
Konerko
Everett
Crede
Pierzynski
Dye
Uribe

Everett protects Konerko, Crede protects Everett, AJ protects Crede. I like having Uribe at the bottom so as not to have someone slow ahead of Podsednik.