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Flight #24
05-12-2005, 04:43 PM
ESPN1000 reporting that 3 have tested positive, including Jorge Toca.

And IIRC, I saw a note recently that Michael Morse (SS traded in the Garcia deal) had tested positive prior to being dealt.

TaylorStSox
05-12-2005, 04:45 PM
ESPN1000 reporting that 3 have tested positive, including Jorge Toca.

And IIRC, I saw a note recently that Michael Morse (SS traded in the Garcia deal) had tested positive prior to being dealt.

That explains the power surge.

maurice
05-12-2005, 04:49 PM
Toca is no big deal, but I'd like to know who the other two are. IIRC, Gray's already been suspended. Nobody will be surprised if Giambi was one of them.

mikehuff
05-12-2005, 04:51 PM
ESPN1000 reporting that 3 have tested positive, including Jorge Toca.

And IIRC, I saw a note recently that Michael Morse (SS traded in the Garcia deal) had tested positive prior to being dealt.

I don't get it. Why would you even try this anymore? Maybe so many people are still getting through the cracks that it's not a big deal for these guys yet.

Randar68
05-12-2005, 04:56 PM
Toca is no big deal, but I'd like to know who the other two are. IIRC, Gray's already been suspended. Nobody will be surprised if Giambi was one of them.

So far the only Sox players to have tested positive have been the minor league journeymen veterans.

I'll wait till the names come out to avoid speculating, but I wouldn't be surprised by a few players testing positive.

The minor league penalty for testing positive is a 15 game suspension.

ESPN 1000 is reporting this? Did they report when 8 Cubs tested positive in the first spate of positive test result announcements? Sure don't remember a peep about that...

Flight #24
05-12-2005, 05:01 PM
In another update, Robert Valido was another one of the guys who tested positive.:o:

Randar68
05-12-2005, 05:02 PM
In another update, Robert Valido was another one of the guys who tested positive.:o:

Somewhat shocking to me. Also remember "steroids" aren't the only drugs banned and tested for. He certainly doesn't look like he's on the juice...

maurice
05-12-2005, 05:03 PM
Valido? CRAP!

The 3rd player was Yofu (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050512&content_id=6316&vkey=pr_milb&fext=.jsp), who is equivalent in relevance to Toca.

maurice
05-12-2005, 05:16 PM
Sox press release:
"It is disappointing that players from our minor-league system tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs in violation of Major League Baseball and the MLBPA's Joint Drug Prevention and Treatment program," said David Wilder, White Sox director of player development.

"We will continue to offer any support we can to players who remain members of the White Sox family, however, at the same time we strongly support Major League Baseball and the drug testing program because it is in the best interests of the game. There is no place for performance-enhancing drugs in baseball."

Sayonara Yofu and Toca?

JackParkman
05-12-2005, 05:49 PM
Here's the AP story off the wire:

{White Sox utilityman among 11 minor league players suspended over} steroids policy
{sssmc}
{By RONALD BLUM}=
{AP Sports Writer}=
NEW YORK (AP) — Colorado pitcher Christian Parker and Chicago White Sox utilityman Jorge Toca were among 11 players given 15-game suspensions Thursday for violating baseball’s minor league steroids policy.
Fifty-nine players have been suspended this year for violating the minor league program. Five players have been given 10-day penalties for violating the major league program.
Parker, a former New York Yankees prospect, is 3-1 with a 1.41 ERA in seven starts this season for Double-A Tulsa.
The 29-year-old right-hander has played in one major league game, giving up seven runs and eight hits in three-plus innings during the Yankees’ 13-4 loss to Toronto on April 6, 2001. Parker, who allowed home runs to Carlos Delgado and Jose Cruz Jr., went on the disabled list with shoulder stiffness and didn’t pitch in another game until April 2003, when he was with the Yankees’ Class-A Tampa farm team.
He spent part of 2003 and 2004 in the minor league system of the Montreal Expos, who originally selected him in the fourth round of the 1996 amateur draft, then signed a minor league contract with the Rockies on Feb. 9.
Toca, 30, is hitting .273 with eight homers and 19 RBIs with Triple-A Charlotte. He appeared in 25 games with the New York Mets over the 1999-2001 seasons, hitting .259 with no homers and 32 RBIs in 175 at-bats while playing first base and left field.
Toca split 2004 with Cancun in the Mexican League, Montreal’s Triple-A team at Edmonton and Detroit’s Triple-A team at Toledo. He signed a minor league contract with the White Sox on Jan. 4 and spent part of spring training in Chicago’s major league camp.
Also suspended were Robert Valido of the White Sox, Jonathan Herrera of Colorado, Steven Smyth of Oakland, and Briane Mazone, Oscar Montero and Guillermo Rodriguez of San Francisco. Three players who already have been released also were suspended: Tetsu Yofu of the White Sox, Marcos Mendoza of the Rockies and Joshua Cram of the Giants.
Giants general manager Brian Sabean and David Wilder, the White Sox director of player development, said they were disappointed.
“I hope that today’s announcement will send a message that the use of performance enhancing drugs is unacceptable and that major league baseball is serious about removing them from our game,” Sabean said.

wood28
05-12-2005, 06:02 PM
Here is the official release from MLB

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20050512&content_id=1047751&vkey=pr_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Flight #24
05-12-2005, 06:05 PM
It'll be interesting to see what happens to these guys. Yofu - already released, a former positive tester - Morse: traded. I would not be at all surprised to see Toca released. If they cut Valido, that would be a strong stance, but I don't expect it.

Randar68
05-12-2005, 06:06 PM
If they cut Valido, that would be a strong stance, but I don't expect it.

Not gonna do that. That's a ridiculous stance. Who knows what substance it even was... These are 3 Sox players out of well over 50 in all the minors... probably approaching 75+ at this time, that have tested positive.

maurice
05-12-2005, 06:12 PM
White Sox utilityman among 11 minor league players suspended over steroids policy

What a bizarre headline. How is Toca a "White Sox utilityman" and why does he deserve a special mention in the headline? He's a 30-year-old AAAA 1B for the Charlotte Knights, who never even made a White Sox roster.

kevingrt
05-12-2005, 09:46 PM
Bad, bad, bad I don't like that at all. I believe the Scrubbies had much more though...

Randar68
05-12-2005, 11:09 PM
Bad, bad, bad I don't like that at all. I believe the Scrubbies had much more though...

They had eight out of the 32 or so in the original mass-announcement.

TaylorStSox
05-12-2005, 11:32 PM
Why does it matter how many the Cubs had.

Valido surprises me. Is he the only legit prospect who's tested positive league wide? Most of the other guys I see are journeyman.

Evman5
05-12-2005, 11:32 PM
wasnt Tetsu Yofu the guy who could throw like 6 different pitches?

Randar68
05-12-2005, 11:47 PM
Why does it matter how many the Cubs had.

Valido surprises me. Is he the only legit prospect who's tested positive league wide? Most of the other guys I see are journeyman.

When Valido told the Sox everything he had taken, they supposedly had norrowed it down to something in an over-the-counter supplement from GNC. It takes a while for people to get used to what is and isn't allowed, how carefully they have to personally be responsible for verifying what they are using is legal, etc.

People really have to remember that this early going from little-to-no drug testing policy to a relatively stringent policy, there are going to be a lot of people who take what they believe to be harmless supplements, shakes, etc, and end up getting caught.

Does anyone really think these guys are still shooting up regularly with known banned substances given all this attention to the subject? It's just something to keep in mind here in the early days of the program.

The Racehorse
05-13-2005, 08:14 AM
wasnt Tetsu Yofu the guy who could throw like 6 different pitches?

6 pitches?

Reminds me of what Bill Lee once did to get back at Carlton Fisk.

Lee, frustrated at Fisk's slow, methodical nature when putting down signs
[leading Bill to say (in his book) "what's taking him so long, I've only got two pitches"]... shook him off six consecutive times. Fisk called time and went to the mound. "How the hell can you shake me off 6 times? I've only got five fingers!"

Bill Lee response? "My point, exactly."

maurice
05-13-2005, 12:50 PM
Levineline on the suspensions:
- Valido is a AA player
- Toca and some other guy were suspended also.
It must be nice to get paid for this kind of insider / expert baseball analysis.

On a more useful note, the Sox told him that Valido thinks the positive test was from something he bought from GNC.

seanpmurphy
05-13-2005, 01:11 PM
Has anyone else heard about this? I forget their names, but 3 minor leaguers in the Sox organization were suspended for steroid use. Think this will just give the media more ammo to take shots at the White Sox? Other thoughts?

Randar68
05-13-2005, 01:12 PM
Has anyone else heard about this? I forget their names, but 3 minor leaguers in the Sox organization were suspended for steroid use. Think this will just give the media more ammo to take shots at the White Sox? Other thoughts?

OLD NEWS! SHEEESH.

Ever think of trying the "Minor League Board?" How can they take shots? There was barely a peep when 8 Cubs prospects tested positive...

seanpmurphy
05-13-2005, 01:13 PM
Sorry!:(:

Randar68
05-13-2005, 01:14 PM
Sorry!:(:

Rule of thumb:

If it was announced more than an hour or 2 ago, it's already been covered.

Deadguy
05-13-2005, 01:23 PM
Has anyone else heard about this? I forget their names, but 3 minor leaguers in the Sox organization were suspended for steroid use. Think this will just give the media more ammo to take shots at the White Sox? Other thoughts?

Not only that, but I heard eight players on the White Sox were kicked out of baseball for fixing the World Series. Say it ain't so. :whiner:

Flight #24
05-13-2005, 02:00 PM
When Valido told the Sox everything he had taken, they supposedly had norrowed it down to something in an over-the-counter supplement from GNC. It takes a while for people to get used to what is and isn't allowed, how carefully they have to personally be responsible for verifying what they are using is legal, etc.

People really have to remember that this early going from little-to-no drug testing policy to a relatively stringent policy, there are going to be a lot of people who take what they believe to be harmless supplements, shakes, etc, and end up getting caught.

Does anyone really think these guys are still shooting up regularly with known banned substances given all this attention to the subject? It's just something to keep in mind here in the early days of the program.

Out of curiosity, I assume these are the guys caught as part of the major league testing (not the minor league testing that's been going on for a while)? Either way, it's interesting that these guys apparently weren't caught in prior minor league testing.

Was there some rule about guys on the 40-man being exempt from minor league testing? I wasn't aware of one. If not, then it would support the case that it was a one-time thing or accidental. The big leaguers don't ahv that excuse since they've not been tested prior to this year (except for when they were in the minors).

EDIT: Randard, I have no doubt that there are still a decent # of guys taking all sorts of banned substances, it's just based on who can afford the good stuff that's either not tested for or that can't be discovered.

maurice
05-13-2005, 02:32 PM
For some reason, the Trib thinks that all 3 players are "prosepcts."

Apparently, they define "prospect" as "anybody on any minor-league roster," including a DL.

Randar68
05-13-2005, 02:41 PM
Out of curiosity, I assume these are the guys caught as part of the major league testing (not the minor league testing that's been going on for a while)? Either way, it's interesting that these guys apparently weren't caught in prior minor league testing.

Was there some rule about guys on the 40-man being exempt from minor league testing? I wasn't aware of one. If not, then it would support the case that it was a one-time thing or accidental. The big leaguers don't ahv that excuse since they've not been tested prior to this year (except for when they were in the minors).

EDIT: Randard, I have no doubt that there are still a decent # of guys taking all sorts of banned substances, it's just based on who can afford the good stuff that's either not tested for or that can't be discovered.

The Minor League testing became more comprehensive along with the introduction of the new MLB testing. They were caught in the minor league phase, thus the 15-game suspensions. I don't recall if you have to be on the 25 or 40 man roster to be subject to the MLB phase, but I believe it's the 40-man roster.

Of course people are taking "banned substances", as they can be found in thousands of seemingly harmless over-the-counter items from cold/allergy medications to dietary supplements to protein shakes to creatine (IIRC not banned, but some commercial versions contain some banned substances), etc...

However, the guys who were taking the hardcore stuff were not new to this game. They know how to beat the system and they will adapt. The guys you see getting caught now are a lot of the smaller/younger guys who are not taking HGH or steroids or crap like that, they just didn't know any better.

Have you seen Robert Valido? How about Alex Sanchez? You think those guys are taking steroids? Ignorance is not an excuse, but there is going to be a clear initial "learning the hard way" curve...

All the announcements on the minor league testing thuis far have come from the teams with Arizona camps. The list of violators from Florida is expected to easily eclipse that of the people tested from the Arizona camps whenever that eventually comes out.