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White Sox Josh
05-11-2005, 05:12 PM
I've noticed a pattern that has occured with Shingo. Whenever he pitches on less than 3 days rest his ERA is close to 1. When he pitches on 4 or more days rest his ERA is close to 10. He was pitching on 4 days rest for the Detroit game and the Rays game. He needs to get more work in. He should've been pitching in one of the Jays games. Remember he has brought his ERA down from 13 to 6. I still think he will be fine and a good closer.

elrod
05-11-2005, 05:14 PM
Good observation. I bet he just needs to get in a groove.

Infallible
05-11-2005, 05:15 PM
The man is a champion. Him and Cotts need to see more action as the true stalwarts of our bullpen.

Ol' No. 2
05-11-2005, 05:16 PM
I've noticed a pattern that has occured with Shingo. Whenever he pitches on less than 3 days rest his ERA is close to 1. When he pitches on 4 or more days rest his ERA is close to 10. He was pitching on 4 days rest for the Detroit game and the Rays game. He needs to get more work in. He should've been pitching in one of the Jays games. Remember he has brought his ERA down from 13 to 6. I still think he will be fine and a good closer.You could be right. I just don't want to see him working out the kinks in the 9th inning.

White Sox Josh
05-11-2005, 05:16 PM
I say if the Sox are in a save situation and there are a couple righties up go to Shingo. He really needs the work. Have Hermy back him up.

TheOldRoman
05-11-2005, 05:17 PM
You could be right. I just don't want to see him working out the kinks in the 9th inning.
Yeah, let him work out his kinks for the Cubs while Derrek Lee plays first for us.
:rolling: Sorry, I couldn't resist.

White Sox Josh
05-11-2005, 05:17 PM
Remember Shingo has pitched well lately.

White Sox Josh
05-11-2005, 05:18 PM
Yeah, let him work out his kinks for the Cubs while Derrek Lee plays first for us.
:rolling: Sorry, I couldn't resist.Could someone delete that thread about trading Shingo for Lee. That's like saying I should play 1st Base for the Sox because Paulie is struggling.

TheOldRoman
05-11-2005, 05:21 PM
I still think Shingo will be fine. He had a rough April last year. He needs to pitch more, and he will get better as the season goes on. However, I had a bad feeling in my stomach when Ozzie brought Shingo in. You NEVER bring the closer into a tie game. It almost always works out bad.

Ol' No. 2
05-11-2005, 05:23 PM
Could someone delete that thread about trading Shingo for Lee. That's like saying I should play 1st Base for the Sox because Paulie is struggling.Why? It was hilarious.

White Sox Josh
05-11-2005, 05:23 PM
I still think Shingo will be fine. He had a rough April last year. He needs to pitch more, and he will get better as the season goes on. However, I had a bad feeling in my stomach when Ozzie brought Shingo in. You NEVER bring the closer into a tie game. It almost always works out bad.Yeah I agree, except almost every manager does it. You only do it if you have to. I think he should've brought Hermy in for the 9th and than if the Sox get a lead put Shingo in.

White Sox Josh
05-11-2005, 05:24 PM
Why? It was hilarious.Than move it to Roadhouse. I guess it is good for a laugh or two.

Ol' No. 2
05-11-2005, 05:27 PM
Yeah I agree, except almost every manager does it. You only do it if you have to. I think he should've brought Hermy in for the 9th and than if the Sox get a lead put Shingo in.Sorry, but I don't want to see Shingo in the 9th inning again until he can sort out whatever his problem is and start throwing strikes. Spring training is for experimenting. These count.

TheOldRoman
05-11-2005, 05:35 PM
Sorry, but I don't want to see Shingo in the 9th inning again until he can sort out whatever his problem is and start throwing strikes. Spring training is for experimenting. These count.
Exactly. He needs to throw strikes. I dont think the league has "figured him out", he just isnt throwing strikes. When he gets behind 3-0 late in a tie game, it doesn't take a genious to "figure out" that he is going to throw a fastball. He isnt locating his pitches, and when he does, he is throwing meatballs over the heart of the plate. He will improve greatly as the season goes on, whether or not he returns to last year's form. The league hasnt figured him out.

Foulke You
05-11-2005, 06:47 PM
Exactly. He needs to throw strikes. I dont think the league has "figured him out", he just isnt throwing strikes. When he gets behind 3-0 late in a tie game, it doesn't take a genious to "figure out" that he is going to throw a fastball. He isnt locating his pitches, and when he does, he is throwing meatballs over the heart of the plate. He will improve greatly as the season goes on, whether or not he returns to last year's form. The league hasnt figured him out.
I agree. I don't believe the league has figured him out either. It is all control problems right now for Shingo. He is having trouble locating his pitches, especially his offspeed stuff. It seems he falls behind every hitter 2-0, 3-1. This is not a good recipe for success for any pitcher, especially a closer. I think Ozzie needs to pick his spots to get Shingo some work. Perhaps some sitations where we need to get a right hander out in the 7th or 6th. As No.2 stated, these games count. If I'm Ozzie, Dustin Hermanson is my full time closer hands down right now.

White Sox Josh
05-11-2005, 07:31 PM
By the way Foulke's ERA is 7.94 and he's given up 8 homers this year. I think both he and Shingo will be fine this year.

Frater Perdurabo
05-11-2005, 08:35 PM
If Shingo needs frequent work, then the offense better start clicking in order to give the Sox some cushion to let Shingo figure things out. Otherwise, let him figure it out in Charlotte.

Frater Perdurabo
05-11-2005, 08:37 PM
I think Ozzie needs to pick his spots to get Shingo some work. Perhaps some sitations where we need to get a right hander out in the 7th or 6th. As No.2 stated, these games count. If I'm Ozzie, Dustin Hermanson is my full time closer hands down right now.

So Shingo should be a "situational righty?" Sounds like a plan to me. Now the offense just has to score enough runs to give the pitchers a comfortable cushion.

kevingrt
05-11-2005, 08:44 PM
Heh, Shingo's woes equal Hermanson's amazingness. Dustin is for real, and I could survive the rest of the season having him close and having the ability to go two innings if needed.

As for Shingo, I don't know if he neccessarily needs to be demoted or just placed in the "long relief" role and move Politte into the "set-up role" along with Marte. But Marte scares me a lot too. Despite the fact he doesn't give up runs he does allow a lot of guys on base. It seemse either strikeout or basehit. Weird stuff... but I would trust Marte then Hermanson or Politte then Hermy.

Ol' No. 2
05-11-2005, 08:48 PM
Heh, Shingo's woes equal Hermanson's amazingness. Dustin is for real, and I could survive the rest of the season having him close and having the ability to go two innings if needed.

As for Shingo, I don't know if he neccessarily needs to be demoted or just placed in the "long relief" role and move Politte into the "set-up role" along with Marte. But Marte scares me a lot too. Despite the fact he doesn't give up runs he does allow a lot of guys on base. It seemse either strikeout or basehit. Weird stuff... but I would trust Marte then Hermanson or Politte then Hermy.I think I would use Shingo pretty much the way he was used the first part of 2004. It's not as if he's been totally ineffective. But in the 9th inning mistakes tend to be fatal. See if he can find his groove in the 7th and 8th innings.

NorthlakeTom
05-11-2005, 08:57 PM
I agree the hitters haven't figured him out, and I doubt they ever will. Shingo didn't become the Japanese saves leader by being figured out. If he was successful all those years in Japan, there's no reason he can't do the same here.

He hasn't been all that bad so far. I'm wondering if he's suffering from the sophomore jinx. New league, new country, it has to have an effect on him.

Look at Dontrelle Willis. Rookie of the Year in '03, then a mediocre season last year.

Ol' No. 2
05-11-2005, 09:02 PM
I agree the hitters haven't figured him out, and I doubt they ever will. Shingo didn't become the Japanese saves leader by being figured out. If he was successful all those years in Japan, there's no reason he can't do the same here.

He hasn't been all that bad so far. I'm wondering if he's suffering from the sophomore jinx. New league, new country, it has to have an effect on him.

Look at Dontrelle Willis. Rookie of the Year in '03, then a mediocre season last year.I've heard this "figure him out" stuff for a year now and I have no idea what it's supposed to mean. Deception and changing speeds has been a bulwark of pitching for 150 years. If hitters haven't "figured it out" in 150 years, I think the secret's safe. Any time a pitcher can change speeds by 30 mph with the exact same motion, and also mix in curveballs from a number of different angles, hitters are going to have a hard time. Provided, of course, that you can throw them for strikes. That hasn't changed in 150 years, either.

Lip Man 1
05-11-2005, 09:06 PM
Rick Morrissey was on Chicago Tribune Live Wednesday and he had an interesting comment about Shingo. I have no idea where he got this from but basically he said (and I'm paraphrasing...) 'The Sox have never had confidence in Shingo, not even last year, because he doesn't throw hard enough to be a quality closer.'

Take it for what it's worth.

Lip

NorthlakeTom
05-11-2005, 09:13 PM
Rick Morrissey was on Chicago Tribune Live Wednesday and he had an interesting comment about Shingo. I have no idea where he got this from but basically he said (and I'm paraphrasing...) 'The Sox have never had confidence in Shingo, not even last year, because he doesn't throw hard enough to be a quality closer.'

Take it for what it's worth.

Lip
I don't buy it. For one thing, it doesn't make sense. Politte is the only true flamethrower, and he isn't closing games. Shingo's fastball approaches 90 which is plenty fast, especially after a 60 mph frisbee.

Ol' No. 2
05-11-2005, 09:15 PM
Rick Morrissey was on Chicago Tribune Live Wednesday and he had an interesting comment about Shingo. I have no idea where he got this from but basically he said (and I'm paraphrasing...) 'The Sox have never had confidence in Shingo, not even last year, because he doesn't throw hard enough to be a quality closer.'

Take it for what it's worth.

LipComing from Morrissey, it's not worth anything.

White Sox Josh
05-11-2005, 09:56 PM
Rick Morrissey was on Chicago Tribune Live Wednesday and he had an interesting comment about Shingo. I have no idea where he got this from but basically he said (and I'm paraphrasing...) 'The Sox have never had confidence in Shingo, not even last year, because he doesn't throw hard enough to be a quality closer.'

Take it for what it's worth.

LipYeah well tell that to Keith Foulke and Danys Baez.

White Sox Josh
05-11-2005, 10:05 PM
I think I would use Shingo pretty much the way he was used the first part of 2004. It's not as if he's been totally ineffective. But in the 9th inning mistakes tend to be fatal. See if he can find his groove in the 7th and 8th innings.Use Shingo with a 3 or 2 run lead in the ninth unless there are real tough lefties up and use Hermy with a 1 run lead in the ninth. When Shingo is throwing the ninth make sure Hermy is warming in case Shingo runs into trouble.

DickAllen72
05-11-2005, 10:20 PM
Shingo will probably get two saves in the next four days. I wouldn't be surprised if he did, anyway.

White Sox Josh
05-11-2005, 10:22 PM
Shingo will probably get two saves in the next four days. I wouldn't be surprised if he did, anyway.Absolutley. Look Shingo has been pitching well as of late. he had one bad outing against Tampa. He has improved from the start of the season.

Banix12
05-11-2005, 11:22 PM
Exactly. He needs to throw strikes. I dont think the league has "figured him out", he just isnt throwing strikes. When he gets behind 3-0 late in a tie game, it doesn't take a genious to "figure out" that he is going to throw a fastball. He isnt locating his pitches, and when he does, he is throwing meatballs over the heart of the plate. He will improve greatly as the season goes on, whether or not he returns to last year's form. The league hasnt figured him out.

Definitely, Last year he was usually doing well because he was getting ahead of hitters, usually always throwing his first pitch for a strike, then throwing a couple changeups to get the hitter off guard. This year he seems to be 1-0, 2-0 and pitching from a hole. In those instances he does get a guy 0-1, 0-2 he starts to throw the ball way outside to see if the hitter will get himself out.

I also noticed that the ball that Cantu hit out of the park the other day was clocked around 81. That really doesn't fly. Shingo usually did his best work when throwing his changeup around 70-75, around a -20 differential off his fastball. 81 is more like a -7 differential, if he throws that pitch up like he did to Cantu to other hitters, it's gonna get crushed most of the time

TheOldRoman
05-12-2005, 12:32 AM
Rick Morrissey was on Chicago Tribune Live Wednesday and he had an interesting comment about Shingo. I have no idea where he got this from but basically he said (and I'm paraphrasing...) 'The Sox have never had confidence in Shingo, not even last year, because he doesn't throw hard enough to be a quality closer.'

Take it for what it's worth.

Lip
I have a pretty idea where he got it from. I'm guessing he pulled it out of one of his lower extremities.

ElevenUp
05-12-2005, 01:24 AM
Shingo may be struggling now, but he's a pro. There will probably be a point in this season where Hermanson struggles (although I hope not), and we will need Shingo to come up big. Don't forget, he earned his nickname because he allowed no runs in postseason in Japan. I'm hoping he gets a chance to continue this streak this year.

wdelaney72
05-12-2005, 07:52 AM
Here's what hitters have "figured out" about Shingo. Wait for him to throw strikes. If he gets behind in the count, sit and wait for the fastball right over the plate. This only works when Shingo is having trouble finding the strike zone. When he's on, his deception is still very strong and tough on hitters.

I agree he needs more consistent work and that it should come in innings 6, 7, 8 or in Charlotte. I want Hermanson pitching in the 9th... period.