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mikehuff
05-10-2005, 07:56 AM
Just looking ahead to the future here. This is Konerko's last year of his contract and Frank isn't going to play the field anymore. Also, Frank might be in his last year as well. Considering that and considering Paulie's hitting as of late, I wonder who the Sox first baseman would be next year. Even if the Sox happen to win the World Series this year, Konerko will not be back if he's hitting in the low .200s. Now, I have no idea what Paulie will do for the rest of the year, but I assume he will pick it up. Nevertheless, the Sox aren't rushing out to resign Paulie with his current .204 average. If we lose him and Frank you would have to look at Everett as the DH (if they decide to keep him too.)
Anyone have any ideas about the first baseman and DH for next year?

hold2dibber
05-10-2005, 08:21 AM
If Frank is healthy and productive I think they'll exercise his option and bring him back next year. I also think they will try to re-sign Konerko to a reasonable multi-year deal (maybe 3 years for $24 million plus incentives). If, however, one or both of them leaves, I'm not sure what Plan B would be. Re-signing Everett is a possibility (but if Paul and Frank stay, I think they probably let Everett walk). I don't think there are any major-league ready 1B prospects in the system. I would think they'd have to go out into the market and find someone. I don't know who will be out there, though.

RKMeibalane
05-10-2005, 08:23 AM
They'll probably have to work out a trade or find a way to sign a free-agent. I think Frank will be back one way or another, but he can't play the field anymore. I just hope the Sox aren't stuck with Ross Gload out there every day next season. Ugh!

Spicoli
05-10-2005, 08:26 AM
I just read a rumor on Rotoworld.com that the Phillies are packaging Placido Polanco and Ryan Howard (major league ready 1st base prospect) to the Dodgers. Polanco would be a nice addition in a utility role and Howard is getting his first cup of coffee now, while Thome is out. Might be worth keeping an eye on?

gosox41
05-10-2005, 08:32 AM
If Frank is healthy and productive I think they'll exercise his option and bring him back next year. I also think they will try to re-sign Konerko to a reasonable multi-year deal (maybe 3 years for $24 million plus incentives). If, however, one or both of them leaves, I'm not sure what Plan B would be. Re-signing Everett is a possibility (but if Paul and Frank stay, I think they probably let Everett walk). I don't think there are any major-league ready 1B prospects in the system. I would think they'd have to go out into the market and find someone. I don't know who will be out there, though.

Honestly, I think that is too much money for PK. Outside of 2004, PK can be counted on to have extended slumps that last from 2 months to the first half of a season. Add to that the high number of DP's and the fact that he'll be on the wrong side of 30 when the contract kicks in and I don't see any reason to give him that much money.

A deal of about $5-6 mill per year for 3 years with a lot of incentives is fair to me.



Bob

Malgar 12
05-10-2005, 08:50 AM
Crede at first and Fields at third?

mikehuff
05-10-2005, 08:55 AM
Honestly, I think that is too much money for PK. Outside of 2004, PK can be counted on to have extended slumps that last from 2 months to the first half of a season. Add to that the high number of DP's and the fact that he'll be on the wrong side of 30 when the contract kicks in and I don't see any reason to give him that much money.

A deal of about $5-6 mill per year for 3 years with a lot of incentives is fair to me.


Yeah, I think the Sox are watching Paulie's average right now and are keeping the caps on their pens. If he happens to go back to his 2003 form, then they are going to let him go because they won't want to pay. It would be too hard to determine if he's going to have these drastic swings year to year. That might not be a good investment. Some other team would probably pay more than the Sox would. I really can't think of other options if Frank, Paulie and Everett are gone. A free agent is our only choice. Casey Rogowski is a name that comes to mind, but I don't know if he's ready. The DH issue is another one. If they lose Paulie, then you would think that Frank would be here for sure.

gosox41
05-10-2005, 08:59 AM
Yeah, I think the Sox are watching Paulie's average right now and are keeping the caps on their pens. If he happens to go back to his 2003 form, then they are going to let him go because they won't want to pay. It would be too hard to determine if he's going to have these drastic swings year to year. That might not be a good investment. Some other team would probably pay more than the Sox would. I really can't think of other options if Frank, Paulie and Everett are gone. A free agent is our only choice. Casey Rogowski is a name that comes to mind, but I don't know if he's ready. The DH issue is another one. If they lose Paulie, then you would think that Frank would be here for sure.

I have no problem letting PK go and taking the draft picks. It would free up a ton of money for the Sox to fill other holes. And of course anything that keeps Frank here the rest of his career makes me happy.


Bob

ode to veeck
05-10-2005, 09:04 AM
Crede at first and Fields at third?

:tealpolice:

Ol' No. 2
05-10-2005, 09:10 AM
Honestly, I think that is too much money for PK. Outside of 2004, PK can be counted on to have extended slumps that last from 2 months to the first half of a season. Add to that the high number of DP's and the fact that he'll be on the wrong side of 30 when the contract kicks in and I don't see any reason to give him that much money.

A deal of about $5-6 mill per year for 3 years with a lot of incentives is fair to me.



BobExcept for his horrible 2003, he's never had a slump lasting more than one month, let alone half a season. $8M doesn't really buy you that much. If you want to improve on that, it's probably going to cost a lot more. That's fine if you don't have better places to put your money, but that remains to be seen after the season. Garland is likely to get a nice raise as is Pierzynski. Some of their key relievers are going to be FA next year, too. How much is JR going to give KW to increase payroll?

Frater Perdurabo
05-10-2005, 09:34 AM
Trade for Aubrey Huff this year. He's signed for about $5 million for 2006. Let Konerko and Everett leave as a free agents. Pick up Frank's 2006 option.

Compare Huff and Konerko for the past three years:

ABs 1690 1577
Runs 250 214
Hits 518 433
Doubles 99 71
Triples 5 0
HRs 86 86
RBI 270 286
Walks 146 156
Strikeouts 209 229
Steals 11 1
AVG .307 .275
OBP .364 .344
SLG .524 .483
OPS .888 .827

Other than RBI (which can be chalked up to the Sox powerful offense the past few years) and HR, where they are tied, Huff clearly is superior offensively. Plus, he's left-handed and can play three other defensive positions (3B, LF, RF). In NL parks, the weakest corner infielder or outfielder can sit, allowing Frank to play first base (if sufficiently healthy) and keep the best hitters in the lineup. Next year, the lineup is:

Pods (LF), Iguchi (2B), Frank (DH), Huff (1B), Dye (RF), Rowand (CF), AJ (C), Uribe (SS), Crede (3B)

That's a dynamic first four, especially considering Frank and Huff statistically are superior to Konerko and Everett. Plus, the Sox will have even more cash to spread around for more pitching or upgrades at any position they so choose. What's not to like?

daveeym
05-10-2005, 09:44 AM
Trade for Aubrey Huff this year. He's signed for about $5 million for 2006. Let Konerko and Everett leave as a free agents. Pick up Frank's 2006 option.

Compare Huff and Konerko for the past three years:

ABs 1690 1577
Runs 250 214
Hits 518 433
Doubles 99 71
Triples 5 0
HRs 86 86
RBI 270 286
Walks 146 156
Strikeouts 209 229
Steals 11 1
AVG .307 .275
OBP .364 .344
SLG .524 .483
OPS .888 .827

Other than RBI (which can be chalked up to the Sox powerful offense the past few years) and HR, where they are tied, Huff clearly is superior offensively. Plus, he's left-handed and can play three other defensive positions (3B, LF, RF). In NL parks, the weakest corner infielder or outfielder can sit, allowing Frank to play first base (if sufficiently healthy) and keep the best hitters in the lineup. Next year, the lineup is:

Pods (LF), Iguchi (2B), Frank (DH), Huff (1B), Dye (RF), Rowand (CF), AJ (C), Uribe (SS), Crede (3B)

That's a dynamic first four, especially considering Frank and Huff statistically are superior to Konerko and Everett. Plus, the Sox will have even more cash to spread around for more pitching or upgrades at any position they so choose. What's not to like? Bah take out konerko's 2003 and run the numbers again. Clearly Superior is a bit of an overstatement and Huff more than likely will be gone at the deadline (if they're moving him) and I don't think that trade would be made midseason unless the sox tank.

MRKARNO
05-10-2005, 09:44 AM
Supposedly the Brewers might be willing to trade their prospect Prince Fielder in the wake of Overbay's awesomeness.

mikehuff
05-10-2005, 09:49 AM
Bah take out konerko's 2003 and run the numbers again.
You can't just take numbers away to make your argument work. It's a fact that Konerko had a bad 2003. Nobody knows which one is the fluke year yet; 2003 or 2004.

daveeym
05-10-2005, 10:00 AM
You can't just take numbers away to make your argument work. It's a fact that Konerko had a bad 2003. Nobody knows which one is the fluke year yet; 2003 or 2004. Then go back to 2000, you can't ignore a whole career and focus on 3 years. That's all I'm saying, and that Clearly SUperior claim is bull****. It's stat manipulation is all I'm saying.

gosox41
05-10-2005, 10:11 AM
Except for his horrible 2003, he's never had a slump lasting more than one month, let alone half a season. $8M doesn't really buy you that much. If you want to improve on that, it's probably going to cost a lot more. That's fine if you don't have better places to put your money, but that remains to be seen after the season. Garland is likely to get a nice raise as is Pierzynski. Some of their key relievers are going to be FA next year, too. How much is JR going to give KW to increase payroll?

Take it for what it's worth:

Year OPS pre-all star OPS post all star
2002 .950 .734
2003 .567 .853
2004 .951 .835

ESPN.com only goes back to 2002 for this info. If anyone has anything before that, please post it. In 2005 his OPS is .778 so far.

For a first baseman, his numbers aren't impressive (outsde of 2004).


Bob

Randar68
05-10-2005, 10:17 AM
Crede at first and Fields at third?

It would likely be the other way around. Rogowski could also earn a chance at an open competition.

TheOldRoman
05-10-2005, 10:17 AM
Honestly, I think that is too much money for PK. Outside of 2004, PK can be counted on to have extended slumps that last from 2 months to the first half of a season. Add to that the high number of DP's and the fact that he'll be on the wrong side of 30 when the contract kicks in and I don't see any reason to give him that much money.

A deal of about $5-6 mill per year for 3 years with a lot of incentives is fair to me.



Bob
Look at the recent free agent market for 1st basemen. Unless Konerko has a horrible year, he is going to get at least $10mil a year from someone. Unless he gives the Sox a hometown discount, he wouldn't sign for $8 mil, let alone $5mil.

TheOldRoman
05-10-2005, 10:18 AM
I just hope the Sox aren't stuck with Ross Gload out there every day next season. Ugh!
I know! It would be horrible if we end up with a lousy, .300 hitting gold glove caliber first baseman.

RKMeibalane
05-10-2005, 10:21 AM
Supposedly the Brewers might be willing to trade their prospect Prince Fielder in the wake of Overbay's awesomeness.

How good is Prince projected to be? I remember seeing him for the first time in an MTV softball game that his dad played in with other MLB All Stars in 1995.

ND_Sox_Fan
05-10-2005, 10:22 AM
With our outfield surpluss, what about seeing what Anderson or Sweeney can do at first base?

Jjav829
05-10-2005, 10:24 AM
Aubrey Huff.

I think there's a realistic chance that they could trade him after the year. Aside from PK, Kevin Millar is the only other free agent that can hit. Scott Hatteberg could become available. That's about it for the free agent market, so if PK isn't re-signed - and I still don't know whether I'm in favor of that - then it looks like Kenny is going to have to dip into the trade market for a new 1B.

Frater Perdurabo
05-10-2005, 10:31 AM
Then go back to 2000, you can't ignore a whole career and focus on 3 years. That's all I'm saying, and that Clearly SUperior claim is bull****. It's stat manipulation is all I'm saying.

I'm not manipulating stats to suit one or the other. I'm just presenting stats. So, in the interest of fairness, let's compare careers. Konerko has played since 97 (6.15 seasons); Huff since 2000 (3.8 seasons). Of course Konerko will have more accummulation stats, he's played longer! So let's compare career AVG, OBP, SLG and OPS for Huff and Konerko:

AVG .293 .276
OBP .348 .344
SLG .485 .480
OPS .833 .824

In each of these categories, Huff is superior.

Next, lets compare the career accummulation stats averaged over a 162-game season:
Runs: 84 81
Hits: 180 158
Doubles: 36 28
Tripes: 2 1
HR: 26 29
RBI: 92 100 (often a factor of who's batting before and after a player)
Walks: 50 54
Strikeouts: 85 86
Steals: 4 1

About equal, except Huff averages far more hits and a few more doubles and Paulie has a few more RBI, walks and homers.

Next, compare how many positions each can play:

Huff: 1B, 3B, LF, RF, DH
Konerko: 1B, DH (I'll even grant 3B, although that's only been in dire emergencies when Manuel was managing, Ozzie opted for Widger at 3B over Konerko when Crede had to play SS!)

Also, Huff is left-handed and Konerko is right-handed. The Sox need more left-handed bats. Huff is nine months younger than Konerko.

Finally, Huff will be cheaper in 2006 than Konerko will be!

To me, if there's a choice, Huff is cleary superior.

Ol' No. 2
05-10-2005, 10:35 AM
Take it for what it's worth:

Year OPS pre-all star OPS post all star
2002 .950 .734
2003 .567 .853
2004 .951 .835

ESPN.com only goes back to 2002 for this info. If anyone has anything before that, please post it. In 2005 his OPS is .778 so far.

For a first baseman, his numbers aren't impressive (outsde of 2004).


BobI already had this conversation with Soxxos. Link (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=678623#post678623)

Break it down by month and you'll see those splits are brought down by only one bad month.

Ol' No. 2
05-10-2005, 10:43 AM
I'm not manipulating stats to suit one or the other. I'm just presenting stats. So, in the interest of fairness, let's compare careers. Konerko has played since 97 (6.15 seasons); Huff since 2000 (3.8 seasons). Of course Konerko will have more accummulation stats, he's played longer! So let's compare career AVG, OBP, SLG and OPS for Huff and Konerko:

AVG .293 .276
OBP .348 .344
SLG .485 .480
OPS .833 .824

In each of these categories, Huff is superior.

Next, lets compare the career accummulation stats averaged over a 162-game season:
Runs: 84 81
Hits: 180 158
Doubles: 36 28
Tripes: 2 1
HR: 26 29
RBI: 92 100 (often a factor of who's batting before and after a player)
Walks: 50 54
Strikeouts: 85 86
Steals: 4 1

About equal, except Huff averages far more hits and a few more doubles and Paulie has a few more RBI, walks and homers.

Next, compare how many positions each can play:

Huff: 1B, 3B, LF, RF, DH
Konerko: 1B, DH (I'll even grant 3B, although that's only been in dire emergencies when Manuel was managing, Ozzie opted for Widger at 3B over Konerko when Crede had to play SS!)

Also, Huff is left-handed and Konerko is right-handed. The Sox need more left-handed bats. Huff is nine months younger than Konerko.

Finally, Huff will be cheaper in 2006 than Konerko will be!

To me, if there's a choice, Huff is cleary superior.A difference of a few points is clearly superior? The only place I see where there's a significant difference is BA. Plus, you would have to trade one or probably more top prospects to get Huff. So the real comparison is Huff vs. Konerko + keeping the prospects. True, Huff is cheaper (for a while) so you could afford to spend that money elsewhere, but IMO, that's not worth giving up 2 or 3 good prospects.

California Sox
05-10-2005, 10:47 AM
Supposedly the Brewers might be willing to trade their prospect Prince Fielder in the wake of Overbay's awesomeness.

I think the Brewers will be more likely to trade Overbay in the wake of Fielder's awesomeness. He's seven years younger, cheaper, and a potential MVP-type. That said, I'd love Overbay if we can't resign Paulie.

Frater Perdurabo
05-10-2005, 12:10 PM
A difference of a few points is clearly superior? The only place I see where there's a significant difference is BA. Plus, you would have to trade one or probably more top prospects to get Huff. So the real comparison is Huff vs. Konerko + keeping the prospects. True, Huff is cheaper (for a while) so you could afford to spend that money elsewhere, but IMO, that's not worth giving up 2 or 3 good prospects.

Huff is clearly superior based on performance over the past three years. To me, Konerko's 2003 is more significant than his 1999 or 2000, because it's more recent. If you look at Konerko's splits, he's extremely streaky. Huff is solid and consistent, putting up comparable numbers across all months (other than April). Huff produces at a level near that of a healthy Maggs - .300 AVG. with 30 homers per year. As PHG has pointed out, Konerko is morphing into Rob Deer.

I agree they should not overpay for Huff with prospects, but neither should they overpay for Konerko in payroll.

I'm comparing Huff at $5 million to Paulie at $8+ million. Given the choice, I'll go with the more consistent, less expensive, left-handed hitter who plays more than one position over the one who is prone to long droughts, runs like a two-toed sloth, right-handed, more expensive player who only plays one position. No brainer to me.

EDIT: Even at equal salaries, I still pick the left-handed hitter who hits for higher average, OBP, SLG and OPS and can play more positions. Because he's left-handed, the Sox would have more incentive to keep Frank Thomas! Thomas and Huff beat Everett and Konerko, hands down!

seanpmurphy
05-10-2005, 12:18 PM
Pujols!

We could stick it to the Northside and have one of the best players in the league all at once. Haha. Oh man. I suck.

Infallible
05-10-2005, 12:18 PM
Then go back to 2000, you can't ignore a whole career and focus on 3 years. That's all I'm saying, and that Clearly SUperior claim is bull****. It's stat manipulation is all I'm saying.

Look I like Chokenuts as much as anyone else but to claim stat manipulation?!?! He took the stats from the last 3 years for BOTH guys. Nothing was manipulated there chief. Could be career avg stat misrepresentation, but they were not manipulated in the least. Where's Leon Durham when we need him?

Ol' No. 2
05-10-2005, 12:24 PM
Huff is clearly superior based on performance over the past three years. To me, Konerko's 2003 is more significant than his 1999 or 2000, because it's more recent. If you look at Konerko's splits, he's extremely streaky. Huff is solid and consistent, putting up comparable numbers across all months (other than April). Huff produces at a level near that of a healthy Maggs - .300 AVG. with 30 homers per year. As PHG has pointed out, Konerko is morphing into Rob Deer.

I agree they should not overpay for Huff with prospects, but neither should they overpay for Konerko in payroll.

I'm comparing Huff at $5 million to Paulie at $8+ million. Given the choice, I'll go with the more consistent, less expensive, left-handed hitter who plays more than one position over the one who is prone to long droughts, runs like a two-toed sloth, right-handed, more expensive player who only plays one position. No brainer to me.

EDIT: Even at equal salaries, I still pick the left-handed hitter who hits for higher average, OBP, SLG and OPS and can play more positions. Because he's left-handed, the Sox would have more incentive to keep Frank Thomas! Thomas and Huff beat Everett and Konerko, hands down!What's recent got to do with it? None of these past numbers means anything except as a predictor of the future. 2003 was clearly the anomaly, and thus, least predictive of future performance.

And again, the proper comparison is Huff vs. Konerko + several top prospects. Look at it from the opposite point of view: If you had Huff, would you trade him for Konerko + Anderson + Gonzalez? That's about the kind of talent it's going to take to get Huff in trade...and possibly more. I think most people would do that trade in a heartbeat.

sircaffey1
05-10-2005, 12:25 PM
I think the most important point to this Konerko resigning argument is, he's not a player you build an offense around. Yes he comes out with overall good numbers but he's streaky and doesnt walk a lot. To build an offense around a hitter like that and committ $10 million to him would be a mistake if KW doesnt go out and get another premier hitter. I don't entirely blame the offense's struggles on Konerko this year, but he is one of, if not the main reason why this offense is struggling. Pods and Iguchi are getting on base in front of him and Pauly isn't even hitting his weight.

This is one of the reasons why we desperately need Frank back. Frank is a stabilizing influence on the whole offense. Frank will never hit .300 again, but he will get on base at a .390-.400 clip. That's huge for us. This is one reason why Pauly will always be a complementary hitter. He will never be able to lead a powerful offense. I wouldn't be too disappointed if he wasn't resigned, but seeing that there really isn't much in terms of FA next year, we might be forced into it. I hope KW just doesn't settle w/ that...

TheOldRoman
05-10-2005, 12:31 PM
Frank will never hit .300 again
Oh, I have a feeling he will. I have a feeling he will hit a lot closer to .330 than .300 this year. Frank will come back trimmed, healthy, and focused on a) securing a new contract b) proving naysayers wrong, and showing why he is a first ballot hall of famer c) doing everything in his power to make good on his best chance at a championship in a decade, and possibly his last chance ever.

sircaffey1
05-10-2005, 12:40 PM
Oh, I have a feeling he will. I have a feeling he will hit a lot closer to .330 than .300 this year. Frank will come back trimmed, healthy, and focused on a) securing a new contract b) proving naysayers wrong, and showing why he is a first ballot hall of famer c) doing everything in his power to make good on his best chance at a championship in a decade, and possibly his last chance ever.

I hope he does, but I think it's pretty homerific to think that...

Frater Perdurabo
05-10-2005, 12:46 PM
What's recent got to do with it? None of these past numbers means anything except as a predictor of the future. 2003 was clearly the anomaly, and thus, least predictive of future performance.

And again, the proper comparison is Huff vs. Konerko + several top prospects. Look at it from the opposite point of view: If you had Huff, would you trade him for Konerko + Anderson + Gonzalez? That's about the kind of talent it's going to take to get Huff in trade...and possibly more. I think most people would do that trade in a heartbeat.

You have to look at the money as well.

Konerko + prospects vs. Huff + more money to spend in 2006.

To get Konerko beyond 2005, it will take at least a 3-year contract! With Huff, they would have him for $5M for 2006 and then could decide whether or nor to re-sign him.

In 2006, based on stats, Huff would be more likely to out-perform Konerko on the field. If Huff flops in 2006, let him walk. If he performs well, you sign him to a similar contract to what Paulie got after 2005. You come out ahead because Huff is better offensively and defensively and prospects are never "sure things."

Also consider the Frank Thomas situation. Think about these four players: Thomas, Everett, Konerko, Huff. If I can only have two of the four, I want the two best. In my mind, Thomas and Huff are the two best among the four and they also best complement each other. With those two, the Sox have more payroll flexibility to use in any way they see fit.

From everything I have seen, Paulie seems like a great clubhouse guy and team leader. But he's just not worth a long term deal at $8M+.

TaylorStSox
05-10-2005, 12:51 PM
I'd say keep Konerko for this year and make a run at Overbay for next. There's no way that the Brewers trade Fielder. He's got way too much star potential. That's very rare in a town like Milwaukee.

Overbay fits in with this team well. He's a doubles hitter, with power. Plus, he's more mobile than other considerations. He's not your prototypical power hitting first baseman. However, at The Cell, I could see him putting up 35 homers with 45 doubles yearly.

I'm not willing to trade major talent for Huff. I like him as a player, but 1st base is too easily answered in the free agent market.

Fields is probably the future at 1st. If we keep Crede, there's no way that you waste his glove at 1st.

In the distant future, Sweeney's size makes him a very realistic option at first. Hopefully, he'll continue to develop the power that is needed there.

maurice
05-10-2005, 12:53 PM
Short-term options: Everett, FA, or trade.
Longer-term options: Fields, Rogowski, Sweeney.

Thomas needs to stay off his feet as much as possible.
Anderson will stay in the OF . . . probably CF.

Ol' No. 2
05-10-2005, 12:58 PM
You have to look at the money as well.

Konerko + prospects vs. Huff + more money to spend in 2006.

To get Konerko beyond 2005, it will take at least a 3-year contract! With Huff, they would have him for $5M for 2006 and then could decide whether or nor to re-sign him.

In 2006, based on stats, Huff would be more likely to out-perform Konerko on the field. If Huff flops in 2006, let him walk. If he performs well, you sign him to a similar contract to what Paulie got after 2005. You come out ahead because Huff is better offensively and defensively and prospects are never "sure things."

Also consider the Frank Thomas situation. Think about these four players: Thomas, Everett, Konerko, Huff. If I can only have two of the four, I want the two best. In my mind, Thomas and Huff are the two best among the four and they also best complement each other. With those two, the Sox have more payroll flexibility to use in any way they see fit.

From everything I have seen, Paulie seems like a great clubhouse guy and team leader. But he's just not worth a long term deal at $8M+.But some of those prospects are likely to take major league roster spots next year. Without them, you've got to fill those spots with FA players, so that could well use up any savings and more. You could easily wind up paying MORE for players who aren't as good and don't have the long-term future.

A lot depends on how much it will take to sign PK. I wouldn't go over about $8M-9M. Keeping PK or not is independant of trading for Huff. Even if they didn't re-sign PK, I don't think I'd pay the steep price necessary to get Huff for one year. He's going to cost plenty in trade.

mdep524
05-10-2005, 01:49 PM
I think Frater hits the nail on the head with all of his posts here. Huff > Konerko overall, and his versatility at the plate and in the field earn even more points on an Ozzie Guillen-led team. Paulie is too streaky and one-dimensional to build an offense around. He is a great supporting hitter, but a making him the highest paid player on th team would be a mistake.

As for trading prospects to get Huff, it will be expensive but not back-breaking. Remember how cheap the Cubs got Derrek Lee? Huff won't be that cheap, but the Rays aren't going to hold the world ransom for him.

Otherwise, the Sox have options. I still like acquiring Todd Helton, if he can be had for a discount salary-wise. Or there's Rogowski, Sweeney or Fields (who's future might well be at 1st base- don't forget guys like Konerko, Thome, Carlos Lee, etc. came up through the minors as 3rd basemen but were moved to first/OF once reaching the majors) once they are ready.

Ol' No. 2
05-10-2005, 02:04 PM
I think Frater hits the nail on the head with all of his posts here. Huff > Konerko overall, and his versatility at the plate and in the field earn even more points on an Ozzie Guillen-led team. Paulie is too streaky and one-dimensional to build an offense around. He is a great supporting hitter, but a making him the highest paid player on th team would be a mistake.

As for trading prospects to get Huff, it will be expensive but not back-breaking. Remember how cheap the Cubs got Derrek Lee? Huff won't be that cheap, but the Rays aren't going to hold the world ransom for him.

Otherwise, the Sox have options. I still like acquiring Todd Helton, if he can be had for a discount salary-wise. Or there's Rogowski, Sweeney or Fields (who's future might well be at 1st base- don't forget guys like Konerko, Thome, Carlos Lee, etc. came up through the minors as 3rd basemen but were moved to first/OF once reaching the majors) once they are ready.And what, exactly are we willing to give up for Aubrey Huff? Is this another Joe Borchard plus Willie Harris trade? We had this same discussion re: Billy Wagner. It's not what the D-Rays want for him. It's what other teams are offering - and that will be a lot. Are you willing to get into a bidding war? Because that's what it will take.

Jjav829
05-10-2005, 02:19 PM
I'd say keep Konerko for this year and make a run at Overbay for next. There's no way that the Brewers trade Fielder. He's got way too much star potential. That's very rare in a town like Milwaukee.

Overbay fits in with this team well. He's a doubles hitter, with power. Plus, he's more mobile than other considerations. He's not your prototypical power hitting first baseman. However, at The Cell, I could see him putting up 35 homers with 45 doubles yearly.

I'm not willing to trade major talent for Huff. I like him as a player, but 1st base is too easily answered in the free agent market.

Fields is probably the future at 1st. If we keep Crede, there's no way that you waste his glove at 1st.

In the distant future, Sweeney's size makes him a very realistic option at first. Hopefully, he'll continue to develop the power that is needed there.

So you don't want to trade for Huff because 1B is too easily solved in free agency - and as I noted earlier, Kevin Millar is the only decent FA 1B this year - but you're willing to trade talent for Overbay? :?:

jeremydavid
05-10-2005, 02:22 PM
I know we have Buerhle and Garcia locked up but does anyone remember the contract status of the other three starters?? What I'm thinking is that if one of their contracts is up we could let them walk and give McCarthy his shot. And then spend the extra money on our 1B problem whether Konerko is the solution or not. Just a thought..

Jjav829
05-10-2005, 02:25 PM
And what, exactly are we willing to give up for Aubrey Huff? Is this another Joe Borchard plus Willie Harris trade? We had this same discussion re: Billy Wagner. It's not what the D-Rays want for him. It's what other teams are offering - and that will be a lot. Are you willing to get into a bidding war? Because that's what it will take.

I'd rather get into a bidding war for Aubrey Huff than for Billy Wagner. The problem is that I can't see the Rays settling for much less than McCarthy.

You never know though. Chuck LaMar might fall in love with the idea of getting two veterans like Chris Widger and Pablo Ozuna along with some mediocre prospect and jump at the deal. :tongue: Hey, he did get his one good trade of the decade out of the way last year with Zambrano for Kazmir. :D:

Tekijawa
05-10-2005, 02:26 PM
I was wondering what happens when Derek Lee and Mike Sweeney become available half way through this year... Lee would fit in nicely here and Sweeney swing a nice bat when he's not on the DL.

gosox41
05-10-2005, 02:30 PM
Oh, I have a feeling he will. I have a feeling he will hit a lot closer to .330 than .300 this year. Frank will come back trimmed, healthy, and focused on a) securing a new contract b) proving naysayers wrong, and showing why he is a first ballot hall of famer c) doing everything in his power to make good on his best chance at a championship in a decade, and possibly his last chance ever.

I think Frank can. But as long as Frank hits .260 I'm fine with him because 1. he can hit 40 HR's and 2. he'll walk a lot and his OBP will be about .400.


Bob

Ol' No. 2
05-10-2005, 02:30 PM
I'd rather get into a bidding war for Aubrey Huff than for Billy Wagner. The problem is that I can't see the Rays settling for much less than McCarthy.

You never know though. Chuck LaMar might fall in love with the idea of getting two veterans like Chris Widger and Pablo Ozuna along with some mediocre prospect and jump at the deal. :tongue: Hey, he did get his one good trade of the decade out of the way last year with Zambrano for Kazmir. :D: I don't want to get into a bidding war for either - especially to solve a non-problem. If Konerko has a year like 2003, then let's talk, but unless that happens, it seems to me the replacement cost of the prospects we'd trade away would far exceed the savings in salary between Konerko and Huff.

gosox41
05-10-2005, 02:30 PM
I was wondering what happens when Derek Lee and Mike Sweeney become available half way through this year... Lee would fit in nicely here and Sweeney swing a nice bat when he's not on the DL.

You nailed it with Sweeney. He has chronic back trouble. IMHO, it's not worth trading for someone you know is damaged goods.


Bob

Jjav829
05-10-2005, 02:33 PM
I know we have Buerhle and Garcia locked up but does anyone remember the contract status of the other three starters?? What I'm thinking is that if one of their contracts is up we could let them walk and give McCarthy his shot. And then spend the extra money on our 1B problem whether Konerko is the solution or not. Just a thought..

Contreras has one more year left after this year. Ditto for El Duque. Garland is a free agent after this year, I believe.

The problem with that idea is that unless I'm missing someone, there are no 1B on the market after 2005 that will command big money. Konerko is the premier FA 1B, unless you want someone like Dmitri Young, J.T. Snow or Tino Martinez. Kevin Millar is the second best hitting first baseman.

Ol' No. 2
05-10-2005, 02:35 PM
Contreras has one more year left after this year. Ditto for El Duque. Garland is a free agent after this year, I believe.

The problem with that idea is that unless I'm missing someone, there are no 1B on the market after 2005 that will command big money. Konerko is the premier FA 1B, unless you want someone like Dmitri Young, J.T. Snow or Tino Martinez. Kevin Millar is the second best hitting first baseman.I'm pretty sure Garland will be short of his six years required for free agency. He'll have another arbitration year left.

Jjav829
05-10-2005, 02:41 PM
I'm pretty sure Garland will be short of his six years required for free agency. He'll have another arbitration year left.

You're right. I gave him an extra year. With the way he's going now, I'm sure he wishes he was a free agent after this year. :smile:

So the three other starters have 2 years left before free agency.

gosox41
05-10-2005, 02:45 PM
I already had this conversation with Soxxos. Link (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=678623#post678623)

Break it down by month and you'll see those splits are brought down by only one bad month.

Overall in PK's career, his OPS amond first basemen has ranked about average (14-16). In 2003 he wasn't in the top 23 listed. In 2004 he was ranked 7th in the majors, by far his best output.

PK's problem this year is his OBP. His slugging percentage is near where it usually is for him. But he's not hitting. Could be bad luck or other factors.

IMHO, after looking at data since 2000, I still don't see PK being worth $10 mill. per year let alone $8 mill. for a guy who overall is statistically average offensively and will be past his prime.



Bob

TheOldRoman
05-10-2005, 02:47 PM
A lot depends on how much it will take to sign PK. I wouldn't go over about $8M-9M.
To keep Konerko, you would have to go over $9 mil. Look at the deals Delgado and Sexon got. Somebody will overpay for Konerko. He wont get a dime less than $10mil a year, whereever he goes.

Ol' No. 2
05-10-2005, 02:49 PM
Overall in PK's career, his OPS amond first basemen has ranked about average (14-16). In 2003 he wasn't in the top 23 listed. In 2004 he was ranked 7th in the majors, by far his best output.

PK's problem this year is his OBP. His slugging percentage is near where it usually is for him. But he's not hitting. Could be bad luck or other factors.

IMHO, after looking at data since 2000, I still don't see PK being worth $10 mill. per year let alone $8 mill. for a guy who overall is statistically average offensively and will be past his prime.



BobHow much are those other "average" first baseman making? Can you realistically do better for the same money? From what I can see, $8-9M is about the going rate for that kind of production. If you want to upgrade with a younger (cheaper) player, it's going to cost prospects in trade, which IMO are going to cost more to replace than the salary difference.

he_gone_89
05-10-2005, 03:27 PM
I would like to see Huff here as much as the next person but I wouldn't let Konerko go. I would trade Crede or Gload for Huff,re-sign Konerko for 3-4 years and if we needed the money,release Joe "Bust" Borchard or somebody of lower talent

DaleJRFan
05-10-2005, 03:45 PM
I'll take either of these guys over PK any day of the week:

http://www.lucidnoir.com/pictures/aubreyhuff.jpg http://www.lucidnoir.com/pictures/toddhelton.jpg


Make it happen KW! :D:

Flight #24
05-10-2005, 03:56 PM
But some of those prospects are likely to take major league roster spots next year. Without them, you've got to fill those spots with FA players, so that could well use up any savings and more. You could easily wind up paying MORE for players who aren't as good and don't have the long-term future.

A lot depends on how much it will take to sign PK. I wouldn't go over about $8M-9M. Keeping PK or not is independant of trading for Huff. Even if they didn't re-sign PK, I don't think I'd pay the steep price necessary to get Huff for one year. He's going to cost plenty in trade.

What slots are going to be open for prospects after this year? All 5 starters are locked up through at least '06. All 3 OFs are as well. Crede-Uribe-Iguchi. I could see sitting Dye if he ends up sucking this yearand possibly one of the Cubans, but none of the others. You're not going to have top prospects on the bench, which makes no sense from either a development or service time perspective.

I can see holding onto Anderson & McCarthy because those are guys you might plug in right away, but there's a ton more in terms of available guys. If you want Huff you might be able to do a Sweeney+Gio deal. I'm not sure if there'll be a lot more out there for him than that. In either case, if Paulie contiues at his current pace, I don't think locking him up at 8-10mil per is a great use of resources. Better to go stopgap or target a guy like Millar or something.

IMO what the best bet is for the Sox is to target high salaried guys that they can get cheaply in terms of prospects. Helton is #1 on my list, or one of the Spankee's guys (assuming they fit into the clubhouse).

Team continues to do well->increased attendance->increased payroll->take on salary and don't give up much.

Ol' No. 2
05-10-2005, 04:07 PM
What slots are going to be open for prospects after this year? All 5 starters are locked up through at least '06. All 3 OFs are as well. Crede-Uribe-Iguchi. I could see sitting Dye if he ends up sucking this yearand possibly one of the Cubans, but none of the others. You're not going to have top prospects on the bench, which makes no sense from either a development or service time perspective.

I can see holding onto Anderson & McCarthy because those are guys you might plug in right away, but there's a ton more in terms of available guys. If you want Huff you might be able to do a Sweeney+Gio deal. I'm not sure if there'll be a lot more out there for him than that. In either case, if Paulie contiues at his current pace, I don't think locking him up at 8-10mil per is a great use of resources. Better to go stopgap or target a guy like Millar or something.

IMO what the best bet is for the Sox is to target high salaried guys that they can get cheaply in terms of prospects. Helton is #1 on my list, or one of the Spankee's guys (assuming they fit into the clubhouse).

Team continues to do well->increased attendance->increased payroll->take on salary and don't give up much.I'd say there's a good chance Anderson is going to push one of the current OF to the bench in 2006. I don't know where they're going to find room for McCarthy, but it's a nice problem to have.

As for PK, if he has another year like 2003, then let's talk about replacement, but there's no need to worry about that now. Otherwise, I doubt you'd find equivalent production for less money without trading away key prospects, which IMO makes the whole deal a net loss. No way you will get Huff for Sweeney+Gonzalez.

DaleJRFan
05-10-2005, 04:14 PM
Anyone know the contract status of Huff or Helton?? I'd really like to see him make a move for a bigtime player but with more than one season left on the contract.

KW said Sunday morning that there are a group of specific prospects he is being very protective of... who those players are, I don't know.

The concept of trading Gio and Sweeney for Huff sounds great to me, but I'd wager they'd want someone who could play NOW.

Flight #24
05-10-2005, 04:17 PM
I'd say there's a good chance Anderson is going to push one of the current OF to the bench in 2006. I don't know where they're going to find room for McCarthy, but it's a nice problem to have.

As for PK, if he has another year like 2003, then let's talk about replacement, but there's no need to worry about that now. Otherwise, I doubt you'd find equivalent production for less money without trading away key prospects, which IMO makes the whole deal a net loss. No way you will get Huff for Sweeney+Gonzalez.

Let's just say that if another 4-6 weeks into the season Paulie's still hitting<.220, then I think you've got an area where you want to improve if you want this team to be going deep in the playoffs. I'm not willing to wait through the whole year.

However, I would temper any moves by making Anderson and McCarthy literally untouchable. As I said, I'd much rather go get a high priced guy by having KW beg JR to front $$$ from increased attendance and if needed, a little gravy on top. Initially, I thought Helton might be a guy to target, but his deal goes through 2012:o: . He only makes $4mil more than Paulie this year tho, so it'd be a feasible 2005 move if there were some way to adjust the remainder of that albatross of a deal.

Frater Perdurabo
05-10-2005, 04:25 PM
Anyone know the contract status of Huff or Helton?? I'd really like to see him make a move for a bigtime player but with more than one season left on the contract.

KW said Sunday morning that there are a group of specific prospects he is being very protective of... who those players are, I don't know.

The concept of trading Gio and Sweeney for Huff sounds great to me, but I'd wager they'd want someone who could play NOW.

Huff is signed for 2006 at around $5 million. I do not know about Helton.

mdep524
05-10-2005, 04:26 PM
No way you will get Huff for Sweeney+Gonzalez. If you call up Chuck LaMar and offer him Ryan Sweeney and Gio Gonzalez, Aubrey Huff has his uniform waiting for him in the visitor's clubhouse of the Juice Box tonight.

ON2, I think your conception of what it would take to get Huff is a bit high. Willie Harris and Joe Borchard is not going to get it done, but look along the lines of the Derrek Lee for Hee Sop Choi deal the Cubs pulled off a few years ago. How about Casey Rogowski and Sean Tracey? A 1B replacement for Huff and a SP who's tearing up AA. Or maybe Fields instead of Rogo. That's something the Rays would definitely consider.

There's no reason the big three- Anderson, BMac and Sweeney- have to come into play at all. It's a testament to how deep our farm system is right now, not to mention our major league club, that we have all these options.

mdep524
05-10-2005, 04:36 PM
Anyone know the contract status of Huff or Helton?? I'd really like to see him make a move for a bigtime player but with more than one season left on the contract.

KW said Sunday morning that there are a group of specific prospects he is being very protective of... who those players are, I don't know.

The concept of trading Gio and Sweeney for Huff sounds great to me, but I'd wager they'd want someone who could play NOW. Todd Helton's contract is monstrous: He's signed through 2010, with an option for 2012. According to DugoutDollars:

Year--$$$
2006--16.6M
2007--16.6M
2008--16.6M
2009--16.6M
2010--16.6M
2011--19.1M

That is not a contract, on its own, that the Sox are going to take on. But Colorado would likely be willing to eat a significant chunk of that deal annually, a la ARod in Texas. If you are only on the hook for 12M per year, which is comparable to what Paulie will likely be earning in his next deal, I think Helton would be a better fit for the team.

Ol' No. 2
05-10-2005, 04:36 PM
If you call up Chuck LaMar and offer him Ryan Sweeney and Gio Gonzalez, Aubrey Huff has his uniform waiting for him in the visitor's clubhouse of the Juice Box tonight.

ON2, I think your conception of what it would take to get Huff is a bit high. Willie Harris and Joe Borchard is not going to get it done, but look along the lines of the Derrek Lee for Hee Sop Choi deal the Cubs pulled off a few years ago. How about Casey Rogowski and Sean Tracey? A 1B replacement for Huff and a SP who's tearing up AA. Or maybe Fields instead of Rogo. That's something the Rays would definitely consider.

There's no reason the big three- Anderson, BMac and Sweeney- have to come into play at all. It's a testament to how deep our farm system is right now, not to mention our major league club, that we have all these options.And I think your conception of what it will take is too low. How many other teams do you think want Aubrey Huff? And what will they be offering? I doubt very much that you will want to top what is going to be offered. The Fish traded Lee because he was due big $$$. Huff is signed for next year at $5M. Big difference.

Ol' No. 2
05-10-2005, 04:37 PM
Todd Helton's contract is monstrous: He's signed through 2010, with an option for 2012. According to DugoutDollars:

Year--$$$
2006--16.6M
2007--16.6M
2008--16.6M
2009--16.6M
2010--16.6M
2011--19.1M

That is not a contract, on its own, that the Sox are going to take on. But Colorado would likely be willing to eat a significant chunk of that deal annually, a la ARod in Texas. If you are only on the hook for 12M per year, which is comparable to what Paulie will likely be earning in his next deal, I think Helton would be a better fit for the team.In this case, it's not just the dollars but the length. Can you see JR agreeing to take on a contract through 2011? Me neither.

mdep524
05-10-2005, 04:38 PM
And I think your conception of what it will take is too low. How many other teams do you think want Aubrey Huff? And what will they be offering? I doubt very much that you will want to top what is going to be offered. The Fish traded Lee because he was due big $$$. Huff is signed for next year at $5M. Big difference. ...and there were several teams interested in Lee, who is arguably a better player than Huff, yet they took the Cubs mediocre offer.

Flight #24
05-10-2005, 04:39 PM
Huff is signed for 2006 at around $5 million. I do not know about Helton.

Everything I see says it goes through 2011 or 2012 at from 14 to 17mil/yr. That ain't happening.

Now dugoutdollars does say there's an option to void after 2007, but I'm assuming that's a player option, not a team option.

If we are doing well and it looks like payroll is going to be bumped, you can figure it as Everett+Konerko instead of Helton in 2006. Plus, I suppose KW could spin it as dumping the Cubans after '06 and allocating some of that $$ to Helton. Then within another year or 2, Frank will retire and there'll be some of that $$$$. But that basically commits the team to filling all of those slots from the minors or continuing to raise payroll.

The good news: if you're willing to take on that deal, he'll basically come for free in trade. Or maybe the Rockies would do something like the Hampton deal and pay 50% of the deal in exchange for Sweeney or something.

EDIT: I see mdep got the details. While it looks monstrous, If you get the annual cost down to about $10-12mil/yr, it's not too bad considering you'd pay 8-10 to resign Paulie anyway. Backload it a bit so that it jumps around when Frank would retire.

mdep524
05-10-2005, 04:41 PM
In this case, it's not just the dollars but the length. Can you see JR agreeing to take on a contract through 2011? Me neither. You're right, its not likely to happen.

Ol' No. 2
05-10-2005, 04:42 PM
...and there were several teams interested in Lee, who is arguably a better player than Huff, yet they took the Cubs mediocre offer.We'll just have to wait and see. I'm sure Huff is on Kenny's radar screen. I just can't see a guy like Huff going for anything less than top-tier prospects.

mdep524
05-10-2005, 04:44 PM
The Fish traded Lee because he was due big $$$. Huff is signed for next year at $5M. Big difference. At the time of the trade, Lee's salary was $4.25M, increased to $6M in '04 through arbitration. Not a big difference from Huff's.

Flight #24
05-10-2005, 04:52 PM
For purposes of discussion only, since it's highly highly unlikely that this would be deemed even remotely feasible by Sox management, here's the Baltimore Sun article on the O's interest in Helton: http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/bal-sp.vecsey19apr19,1,6196031.column?page=2&cset=true&ctrack=1&coll=bal-sports-columnists

The proposed trade that the Rockies would take: Jay Gibbons, outfielder Nick Markakis, starting pitcher Hayden Penn and lefty reliever John Parrish (http://www.baltimoresun.com/extras/sports/baseball/cards2005/parrish.html).

I know little to nothing about that collection, but I surmise it's a collection of nobodies. Not as good as say....Joe Borchard, Felix Diaz, Arnie Munoz, Casey Rogowski. Or swap in Young and Tracey in exchange for the Rocks picking up $30mil of the deal.

Ol' No. 2
05-10-2005, 05:02 PM
For purposes of discussion only, since it's highly highly unlikely that this would be deemed even remotely feasible by Sox management, here's the Baltimore Sun article on the O's interest in Helton: http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/bal-sp.vecsey19apr19,1,6196031.column?page=2&cset=true&ctrack=1&coll=bal-sports-columnists

The proposed trade that the Rockies would take: Jay Gibbons, outfielder Nick Markakis, starting pitcher Hayden Penn and lefty reliever John Parrish (http://www.baltimoresun.com/extras/sports/baseball/cards2005/parrish.html).

I know little to nothing about that collection, but I surmise it's a collection of nobodies. Not as good as say....Joe Borchard, Felix Diaz, Arnie Munoz, Casey Rogowski. Or swap in Young and Tracey in exchange for the Rocks picking up $30mil of the deal.Gibbons is a servicable OF/1B and Parrish is a decent reliever. The other aren't even on the 40-man roster. I have no idea if this is anything more than this writer on a kool-aide OD. It would certainly involve the O's taking ALL of Helton's contract.

Jjav829
05-10-2005, 05:22 PM
I would like to see Huff here as much as the next person but I wouldn't let Konerko go. I would trade Crede or Gload for Huff,re-sign Konerko for 3-4 years and if we needed the money,release Joe "Bust" Borchard or somebody of lower talent

:thud:

Jjav829
05-10-2005, 05:26 PM
For purposes of discussion only, since it's highly highly unlikely that this would be deemed even remotely feasible by Sox management, here's the Baltimore Sun article on the O's interest in Helton: http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/bal-sp.vecsey19apr19,1,6196031.column?page=2&cset=true&ctrack=1&coll=bal-sports-columnists

The proposed trade that the Rockies would take: Jay Gibbons, outfielder Nick Markakis, starting pitcher Hayden Penn and lefty reliever John Parrish (http://www.baltimoresun.com/extras/sports/baseball/cards2005/parrish.html).

I know little to nothing about that collection, but I surmise it's a collection of nobodies. Not as good as say....Joe Borchard, Felix Diaz, Arnie Munoz, Casey Rogowski. Or swap in Young and Tracey in exchange for the Rocks picking up $30mil of the deal.

Helton and Huff are two completely different cases. Huff is signed cheap, and the Rays could probably afford him long term if they wanted to.

Helton on the other hand is making a ridiculous amount of money. The Rockies are desperate to get out from his contract. The Sox could pry him free without giving up much as long as they are willing to eat a ton of money. That's something I wouldn't do. If I had to choose between the two, I'd sooner trade McCarthy - or whatever group of prospects it would take - for Huff and sign a pitcher with the difference in money.

MRKARNO
05-10-2005, 05:27 PM
I'm probably most in favor of Overbay. The power will start to show this year and his batting average and OBP will begin to be very good. You could tell that Overbay was going to increase the power by the high number of doubles he hit (51) in 2004.

ExpoPuddingHead
05-10-2005, 05:39 PM
Karno, I see where you're getting the idea that doubles 1 year= homers the next (Brian Roberts) but Lyle Overbay is not the answer at first base. Looking at last year it is very easy to see that he really faded after the All-Star break. He is no less streaky than Konerko, who you want to replace. Also the Brewers aren't in the NL Central basement but they're in second place, I'd say now that we're more likely to get Derrek Lee than Lyle Overbay especially if the Brewers keep on playing well.

TheOldRoman
05-10-2005, 08:26 PM
Todd Helton's contract is monstrous: He's signed through 2010, with an option for 2012. According to DugoutDollars:

Year--$$$
2006--16.6M
2007--16.6M
2008--16.6M
2009--16.6M
2010--16.6M
2011--19.1M

That is not a contract, on its own, that the Sox are going to take on. But Colorado would likely be willing to eat a significant chunk of that deal annually, a la ARod in Texas. If you are only on the hook for 12M per year, which is comparable to what Paulie will likely be earning in his next deal, I think Helton would be a better fit for the team.

The money is one thing. The Sox could offer the right prospects and get the Rockies to eat half of the contract. However, I would stay away at all cost with the length of that contract. Helton is a great hitter, in Coors and on the road, but he is 31, I believe. I have seen way too many players get old in a hurry. He may be a great hitter now, but for a player who will be 37 when the contract ends, we have no idea how mych longer he will produce. Even if we only paid half the salary, I would hate to be in a situation like the Oriolees were in up until two years ago with contracts such as Belle's. $10 mil is still a lot of money.

SoxFan48
05-10-2005, 08:38 PM
Huff is signed for 2006 at around $5 million. I do not know about Helton.

Todd Helton is earning $12.6 millionthis year and has a long-term contract to somewhere around 2011 that tops out at about $19 million per hour.