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MarqSox
11-08-2001, 10:38 AM
Elias Ranks Helton As Baseball's Best

By RONALD BLUM
AP Sports Writer

NEW YORK (AP) — The Big Unit is getting his World Series ring, but he lost his No. 1 spot in baseball's annual rankings.

Colorado first baseman Todd Helton took over from Arizona pitcher Randy Johnson as baseball's top player, according to the statistical rankings released Wednesday by the Elias Sports Bureau.

Helton received a 99.13 score out of 100, based on statistics from 2000 and 2001. Johnson, who helped the Diamondbacks win the World Series, was second at 98.25, followed by Chicago Cubs outfielder Sammy Sosa at 97.634.

Boston's Manny Ramirez (96.709) was among the top three AL outfielders for the sixth straight season, joined by Magglio Ordonez of the Chicago White Sox (93.544).

Tied for third were the Yankees' Bernie Williams (89.62), in the top three for the fifth consecutive year, and Oakland's Jermaine Dye, who last year made the top three for the first time.

New York's Roger Clemens, a favorite to win his sixth AL Cy Young Award, was the top-rated AL pitcher for the fourth time at 97.971. Clemens also was the top AL pitcher in 1988, `91 and `98. Boston's Pedro Martinez was No. 1 in the previous two seasons.

Jason Giambi (94.00), one of the top free agents on the market, took over from Carlos Delgado at first base.

Seattle's Edgar Martinez (96.00) was the top designated hitter, the sixth time in seven seasons he held or shared the top spot.

Ivan Rodriguez of the Rangers (91.176) led AL catchers for the fourth straight season, and Texas teammate Alex Rodriguez (93.506) led AL shortstops for the third straight year and fourth time in five seasons.

Cleveland's Roberto Alomar (94.156) was the top second baseman for the fourth straight year and the eighth time in 10 seasons, and Indians third baseman Travis Fryman (84.571) was the top third baseman for the second straight season and the third time in four years.

The biggest aberration was among AL relief pitchers, with Chicago's Keith Foulke (94.299) finishing first for the third straight year, while the Yankees' Mariano Rivera (92.043) improved to second.

While Rivera was first in wins plus saves, fourth in strikeouts/walks ratio, fifth in ERA and 13th in hits per nine innings, he was 17th in appearances and 19th in innings.

Foulke was fourth in wins plus saves, tied for fourth in appearances, sixth in strikeout/walk ratio, seventh in ERA and hits per nine innings and 16th in innings.

The rankings, created by owners and the players' association in the 1981 strike settlement, are used to divide free agents into groups that determine draft-pick compensation for a player's former club if he signs with a new team.

Among the statistics used for hitters are plate appearances, batting average, on-base percentage, home runs and RBIs.

In the NL, Johnson edged his World Series co-MVP, Curt Schilling (96.5) as the top pitcher. The Big Unit was first in wins and strikeouts, second in ERA and innings, fifth in winning percentage and tied for fifth in starts, while Schilling was first in starts and innings, second in wins and strikeouts, ninth in ERA and 12th in winning percentage,

The Mets' Mike Piazza (91.638) was the top catcher for the second straight season and fourth time in five years.

Helton was the top first baseman for the second straight season, and San Francisco's Jeff Kent (93.75) replaced Edgardo Alfonzo at second. The Giants' Rich Aurilia (91.518) took over from Mike Bordick at shortstop, and Jeff Cirillo (88.177) replaced Chipper Jones at third base.

Sosa, Arizona's Luis Gonzalez (95.699) and San Francisco's Barry Bonds (94.409) were the top three NL outfielders. Sosa was among the top three for the third straight season, while Vladimir Guerrero and Brian Giles dropped out.

San Francisco's Robb Nen (92.57) was the top reliever, replacing Armando Benitez.

duke of dorwood
11-08-2001, 10:50 AM
:walk

Missed it by that much.

Iwritecode
11-08-2001, 11:15 AM
:keith

Eat my dust Rivera!

Nellie_Fox
11-08-2001, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by MarqSox
followed by Chicago Cubs outfielder Sammy Sosa at 97.634.

Baseball's third best? Makes me suspicious of all the ratings.

cheeses_h_rice
11-08-2001, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox


Baseball's third best? Makes me suspicious of all the ratings.

:moron

You should see who gets to vote!

Spiff
11-08-2001, 08:02 PM
Again, I ask why anyone here would want to trade Foulke.

And I don't care how much he wants he's the best freakin closer in the game he deserves a good deal.

Viva Magglio
11-08-2001, 08:09 PM
:maggs
Thank you very much. Drink Pepsi.

KempersRS
11-08-2001, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by Wh1teSox00
Again, I ask why anyone here would want to trade Foulke.

And I don't care how much he wants he's the best freakin closer in the game he deserves a good deal.

I still want to trade him. I should say, we should have traded him before we started a huge mess over this contract. Closers aren't important enough to be worth that much money. Don't anyone go flaming me and say I said closers aren't important, cause I never did. And then there is the whole debate over his ability down the road and his ability in the clutch, but we've talked that one to death before. Yes, I'm still not for signing Foulke to that much money.

FarWestChicago
11-08-2001, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by KempersRS
Closers aren't important enough to be worth that much money. LOL!! I have a feeling there would have been a bunch of D-Bucks and D-Bucks fans that probably would not have agreed with this statement after games 4 & 5 of the series. <insert>Copyrighted Daver quote</insert> :)

Daver
11-08-2001, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by KempersRS


I still want to trade him. I should say, we should have traded him before we started a huge mess over this contract. Closers aren't important enough to be worth that much money. Don't anyone go flaming me and say I said closers aren't important, cause I never did. And then there is the whole debate over his ability down the road and his ability in the clutch, but we've talked that one to death before. Yes, I'm still not for signing Foulke to that much money.

I agree with Kempers.

But then again what the hell do I know? ©

GASHWOUND
11-08-2001, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by Wh1teSox00
Again, I ask why anyone here would want to trade Foulke.

And I don't care how much he wants he's the best freakin closer in the game he deserves a good deal.

You won't get an argument from me. Keith Foulke is the difference between being a championship contender to being a championship pretender. You need a top of the line closer to rely on. No if's and's, or but's about it.
Foulke's, Da Man

KempersRS
11-08-2001, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by GASHWOUND


You won't get an argument from me. Keith Foulke is the difference between being a championship contender to being a championship pretender. You need a top of the line closer to rely on. No if's and's, or but's about it.
Foulke's, Da Man

How could you possibly make that post? A Championship contender??? The team who just WON the World Series didn't have a closer!

Spiff
11-08-2001, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by KempersRS


How could you possibly make that post? A Championship contender??? The team who just WON the World Series didn't have a closer!

Uh yeh they did but no closer is perfect.

Did you happen to notice how much they pitched him?

Daver
11-08-2001, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by Wh1teSox00


Uh yeh they did but no closer is perfect.

Did you happen to notice how much they pitched him?

They pitched him enough to make the series go seven games and make FOX very happy.

But then again what the hell do I know? ©

KempersRS
11-08-2001, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by Wh1teSox00


Uh yeh they did but no closer is perfect.

Did you happen to notice how much they pitched him?

The point is, you don't NEED one of the top closers around to be a champion. There are so many acceptable closers today too. A good closer is a very nice thing to have, but when it costs you 8 million a year, and you want to be a World Series champ...you have MUCH bigger issues to deal with. One being that this team gets a rotation together that actually does something other than Buehrle. Another is that they get a catcher, or a third baseman. Solidify the infield, make some decisions about where certain players will be. Foulke is not worth the money when you look at all the other issues this team has.

Jerry_Manuel
11-08-2001, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by KempersRS
How could you possibly make that post? A Championship contender??? The team who just WON the World Series didn't have a closer!

I'm in no mood to argue this point but let the record show the Dbacks had a closer until he got hurt. His name Matt Mantei.

Jerry_Manuel
11-08-2001, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by KempersRS
The point is, you don't NEED one of the top closers around to be a champion. There are so many acceptable closers today too. A good closer is a very nice thing to have, but when it costs you 8 million a year, and you want to be a World Series champ...you have MUCH bigger issues to deal with. One being that this team gets a rotation together that actually does something other than Buehrle

You don't need a top closer but you just can't throw some slug like Howry out there. Look Kempers if Reinsdorf was willing to spend as much as it took, signing Foulke for 8 million wouldn't be a problem.

KempersRS
11-08-2001, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Look Kempers if Reinsdorf was willing to spend as much as it took, signing Foulke for 8 million wouldn't be a problem.

But it is a problem. Reinfy won't spend it, we get a tight payroll and we have to live with it. So if we get shortchanged and have to make the best of every cent we have, signing Foulke for 8 mil shouldn't be a part of that.

WinningUgly!
11-08-2001, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by KempersRS


How could you possibly make that post? A Championship contender??? The team who just WON the World Series didn't have a closer!

No, they didn't have a closer, but they have a few things that allowed them to overcome their gaping hole there....
1)Curt Schilling
2)Randy Johnson

Our pitching strength is (when healthy!) our bullpen, with Foulke being the key guy. Our gaping hole would be our starting pitching. Buhrle has had one good season. He's not exactly in the Johnson/Schilling league yet! We have an organization full of young arms that need Keith Foulke coming out of the pen to nail down wins for them. I agree that closers are often very over-rated, but I just don't think it's a good idea for this team to deal away Foulke. 2002 will be a long year if we have to keep watching Bob Howry or Lo Barcello trotting out in the 9th inning to take the ball from JM! I don't like seeing guys like Jon Garland with his head down.

Jerry_Manuel
11-08-2001, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by KempersRS
But it is a problem. Reinfy won't spend it, we get a tight payroll and we have to live with it. So if we get shortchanged and have to make the best of every cent we have, signing Foulke for 8 mil shouldn't be a part of that.

The Sox will never win a World Series with Reinsdorf as owner. If he won't pay a starter the big money then it's going to be the "kid pitchers" on the mound. And that's just not going to get the job done.

GASHWOUND
11-08-2001, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by KempersRS


How could you possibly make that post? A Championship contender??? The team who just WON the World Series didn't have a closer!

I was gonna reply, but WinningUgly made the same point I was gonna made, so redirect your attention there.

But to add, when we have 3 dominating starters in our rotation, we can live without Foulke, or just 2. You need that top of the line closer or(you saw what happened at the WS. If they could do that the Riveria or even Kim, who had outstanding #'s during the season, imagine what they would do to our next in line closer( Howry, Barcelo, Wright?) I don't feel confident lugging those guys out there with the game n the line. I will stay with my original point. It is VERY difficult to have atop of the line closer on your club. Its the difference between having a championship contender or a championship pretender.(Dejü Vu?)
Foulke is a keeper.
YAAAAAWN, I'm going to bed.
I actually feel sleepy for once at this time.