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JUribe1989
05-08-2005, 11:09 PM
I don't know if any radio station has reported this, but I have heard from around here and it might just be suggestions but the rumor is that KW is gonna try to get Billy Wagner. I would love to add Wagner to this bullpen, with that we would be unstoppable late in games. He is in the last year of his contract in Philly and the Phillies could be out of the race relatively quick. It is a known fact that the Phils want Placido Polanco out of Philly and they want to start Chase Utley. I would suggest offerring Harris and Borchard to Philly. Philly could use another power hitting outfielder and with Harris they could start Utley and use Harris in a utility unfield role. Anyone else have suggestions or truths to this rumor?

SoxSpeed22
05-08-2005, 11:19 PM
I don't know if any radio station has reported this, but I have heard from around here and it might just be suggestions but the rumor is that KW is gonna try to get Billy Wagner. I would love to add Wagner to this bullpen, with that we would be unstoppable late in games. He is in the last year of his contract in Philly and the Phillies could be out of the race relatively quick. It is a known fact that the Phils want Placido Polanco out of Philly and they want to start Chase Utley. I would suggest offerring Harris and Borchard to Philly. Philly could use another power hitting outfielder and with Harris they could start Utley and use Harris in a utility unfield role. Anyone else have suggestions or truths to this rumor?
http://www.familyguyquotes.com/images/brian_tn.jpg"Are you sure it was in a book? Are you sure it wasn't nothing?"
Seriously though that would kick ass to have Wagner and Marte as set-up men or closers. Let's see what we gotta get first and then go for the kill. If it's even true.

ATXBMX
05-08-2005, 11:21 PM
I agree that going after Wagner is a good idea. I have run out of patience with Borchard, but I wouldn't expect anything to happen until Frank comes back, because then we'll be forced to make a roster move that may or may not affect Willie.

JUribe1989
05-08-2005, 11:21 PM
http://www.familyguyquotes.com/images/brian_tn.jpg"Are you sure it was in a book? Are you sure it wasn't nothing?"
Seriously though that would kick ass to have Wagner and Marte as set-up men or closers. Let's see what we gotta get first and then go for the kill. If it's even true.

OMG, WHAT A FAMILY GUY REFERENCE!! If any other posters are gonna be sarcastic on this site. Please, do it like that. I'm laughing my ass off.

BRDSR
05-08-2005, 11:44 PM
I don't know if any radio station has reported this, but I have heard from around here and it might just be suggestions but the rumor is that KW is gonna try to get Billy Wagner. I would love to add Wagner to this bullpen, with that we would be unstoppable late in games. He is in the last year of his contract in Philly and the Phillies could be out of the race relatively quick. It is a known fact that the Phils want Placido Polanco out of Philly and they want to start Chase Utley. I would suggest offerring Harris and Borchard to Philly. Philly could use another power hitting outfielder and with Harris they could start Utley and use Harris in a utility unfield role. Anyone else have suggestions or truths to this rumor?

Heck, if the Phils are looking to deal and they want to get rid of Polanco, pick him up. I love Placido Polanco. He's a player with who's hitting is at the level of a starter and his versatility in the field is at the level of a quality utility infielder. Although I'm sure it'd be too expensive, I'd love to see us pick up Wagner and Polanco. Since thats probably out of the question, I would almost rather see Polanco on this team than Wagner. I'm sure his salary is less and right now I feel like he fits a need better than Wagner(our bullpen has been lights out). In any case, I wouldn't want to see such a move until at least the end of June.

TheOldRoman
05-08-2005, 11:54 PM
First of all, I don't think those are actual rumors. The tools at ESPN like to tease with things like "Phils looking to move Wagner? Subscribe to Insider to find out." Obviously, the Phillies aren't doing good this year, and if they are out of it at the AS break, they will move Wagner. However, there are very few proven legitimate lights out closers in baseball, and Wagner is one of them. Of the playoff contending teams, only the Dodgers, Red Sox, Angels and possibly Twins have great closers. EVERYONE else will be looking to upgrade. The Cubs would go hard for Wagner except for the fact that they will be 15 out of the wild card by the end of July.
No team is out of it at the beginning of May. The Phils don't look good, but they wont be looking to trade Wagner until the AS break at the very earliest, so its WAY to early to talk about them trading Wagner. If he is shopped, there will be many suitors, and the Sox wouldn't get him without giving up one of their top prospects. Polanco is a good player, but he wouldn't be included in that trade. He would be shipped separately to a team who needs a 2B. Besides that, its insane to propose trading Willie and Borchard for Wagner and Polanco. Harris has no value whatsoever and Borchard has negative value. IF the Sox do get Wagner, they are gonna have to outbid a lot of other teams, and its gonna take a lot more than Harris and Borchard.

HomeFish
05-09-2005, 12:15 AM
Anderson or Sweeney seem more like what we can send over there for Wagner.

I wanted the Sox to sign Polanco before the season, but with Iguchi, do we reall y have a place for him?

MIgrenade
05-09-2005, 12:19 AM
Personally I think this "rumor" was something mentioned in one of the threads around here. I really wish Shingo could get it together so the Sox don't have to sell the farm to get a closer.
Of course if KW wants Wagner, he will give up anything to get him except BMac. After this season its clear that great pitching is more important than hitting which means Anderson could get moved. Face it, nobody is taking Borchard for Wagner. Also, KW will pull off the trade when he can give up the least possible like when he got Garcia.
If KW gets Wagner that means he will bet the future to win now and thats fine by me.

Jjav829
05-09-2005, 12:31 AM
I don't know if any radio station has reported this, but I have heard from around here and it might just be suggestions but the rumor is that KW is gonna try to get Billy Wagner. I would love to add Wagner to this bullpen, with that we would be unstoppable late in games. He is in the last year of his contract in Philly and the Phillies could be out of the race relatively quick. It is a known fact that the Phils want Placido Polanco out of Philly and they want to start Chase Utley. I would suggest offerring Harris and Borchard to Philly. Philly could use another power hitting outfielder and with Harris they could start Utley and use Harris in a utility unfield role. Anyone else have suggestions or truths to this rumor?

Ugh. I guess we're getting closer to the time where trades starting occurring, meaning my favorite...ridiculous trade proposals. Please people, if you're gonna propose a trade, make it equal or I'm gonna rip it.:smile:

The Phillies need another power hitting outfield like Joe Borchard? Uhhh, no. First, Joe Borchard has little to no trade value right now. He's not going to be the centerpiece of any trade to bring over a quality player. If the Phillies did want another outfielder, it would be a centerfielder who can make some contact. Brian Anderson would be what they want. Joe Borchard is a much much much lesser version of Pat Burrell. Second, Placido Polanco alone would probably bring more than Willie Harris and Joe Borchard. As the trade deadline gets closer and teams become more desperate, his value is only going to rise. If they do move Wagner, you can bet teams like the Cubs and Giants will give up more than Joe Borchard and Willie Harris.

santo=dorf
05-09-2005, 12:57 AM
I wanted the Sox to sign Polanco before the season,
Well that would've been ****ing impossible because he accepted arbitration. :rolleyes:
https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/bschalle/www/Baseball%20pics/wagner.jpg >>>http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_425840.jpg

balke
05-09-2005, 01:03 AM
I like how people think we can "trick" other teams into taking our bad players. Wagner is a proven superstar, we'd have to give up something that is looking near equal to a Wagner as a prospect.

I would think B-Mac and Anderson are untouchable, maybe not. But players like Gio Gonzalez, and possibly Fields or Sweeney could all be valuable. I hear the Phillies biggest need is starting pitching. B-mac for Wagner is probably not unthinkable, but I think it would be kinda lopsided to Philly. I find it hard to believe we'd mess with this teams depth at the SP position.

On Yahoo, it said Polanco was going to the Cubs soon.... and NO WE DON'T HAVE ROOM FOR HIM.

TheOldRoman
05-09-2005, 01:14 AM
Well that would've been ****ing impossible because he accepted arbitration. :rolleyes:
https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/bschalle/www/Baseball%20pics/wagner.jpg >>>http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_425840.jpg
Santo, you have outdone yourself yet again. :thumbsup: However, if the number of > signifies much much much greater than, it should say Wagner > x 10 to the 23 than Cotts.

SOXintheBURGH
05-09-2005, 01:17 AM
Well that would've been ****ing impossible because he accepted arbitration. :rolleyes:
https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/bschalle/www/Baseball%20pics/wagner.jpg >>>http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_425840.jpg


Amen.

Marte, Luis, Shingotime, Hermy, and Billy Wagner?

Christmas would be coming early this year, sometime around early November.

Kenny will figure it out.

TheOldRoman
05-09-2005, 01:27 AM
Amen.

Marte, Luis, Shingotime, Hermy, and Billy Wagner?

Christmas would be coming early this year, sometime around early November.

Kenny will figure it out.
While this team could use Wagner, it could also use Carlos Beltran, Albert Pujols and Scott Rolen. That doesn't narrow it down. Just because a player could help the team doesnt mean KW should acquire him at all costs. Lets at least wait until July and see what this team really needs.

fquaye149
05-09-2005, 01:42 AM
While this team could use Wagner, it could also use Carlos Beltran, Albert Pujols and Scott Rolen. That doesn't narrow it down. Just because a player could help the team doesnt mean KW should acquire him at all costs. Lets at least wait until July and see what this team really needs.

It's not that Wagner's MORE of an upgrade over Cotts than Beltran would be over Rowand, Pujols over Paulie or Pods, or Rolen over Crede, it's that the player being upgraded is at such a low level (besides Saturday's performance) that an upgrade is necessary.

santo=dorf
05-09-2005, 01:44 AM
Santo, you have outdone yourself yet again. :thumbsup: However, if the number of > signifies much much much greater than, it should say Wagner > x 10 to the 23 than Cotts.

How about I just use Avagadro's number? :D: (6.022 X 10^23)

Ol' No. 2
05-09-2005, 10:05 AM
The Sox have a grand total of 3 blown saves, so it's not as if we have a problem of LaTroy Horking proportions. Just how much are you willing to give up to solve a non-problem? I can assure you, the price of closers in July will be high. Would you give up two or three top prospects? That's what it will take. Anderson PLUS Sweeney PLUS someone else. People need to get realistic.

daveeym
05-09-2005, 10:18 AM
The Sox have a grand total of 3 blown saves, so it's not as if we have a problem of LaTroy Horking proportions. Just how much are you willing to give up to solve a non-problem? I can assure you, the price of closers in July will be high. Would you give up two or three top prospects? That's what it will take. Anderson PLUS Sweeney PLUS someone else. People need to get realistic. Unless the bullpen just crumbles the only way they make the trade is if they basically have a deal hammered out with him before the trade to resign with the sox.

balke
05-09-2005, 10:46 AM
The Sox have a grand total of 3 blown saves, so it's not as if we have a problem of LaTroy Horking proportions. Just how much are you willing to give up to solve a non-problem? I can assure you, the price of closers in July will be high. Would you give up two or three top prospects? That's what it will take. Anderson PLUS Sweeney PLUS someone else. People need to get realistic.

For the season, there is little need... but playoffs may be a different story.

We could have Wagner, Vizcaino, Marte, DH, and Shingo all out of the pen. Wagner would be the automatic for close late games. I like our bullpen, a move like this would strictly be upgrading for the playoffs. If we gave up a lot of minor league talent, and it helped us get further into the playoffs... it might be worth it.

Ol' No. 2
05-09-2005, 10:56 AM
For the season, there is little need... but playoffs may be a different story.

We could have Wagner, Vizcaino, Marte, DH, and Shingo all out of the pen. Wagner would be the automatic for close late games. I like our bullpen, a move like this would strictly be upgrading for the playoffs. If we gave up a lot of minor league talent, and it helped us get further into the playoffs... it might be worth it.As much as I'd like to have Billy Wagner, I just have a feeling the price will be exhorbitant. You might not get him for prospects alone. They might want an established player, like Aaron Rowand, too.

Baby Fisk
05-09-2005, 11:09 AM
As much as I'd like to have Billy Wagner, I just have a feeling the price will be exhorbitant. You might not get him for prospects alone. They might want an established player, like Aaron Rowand, too.
Agreed. If you believe the media previews, the Phillies were supposed to be contenders this year. Any move that looks like a rebuilding effort (star for prospects) will be met with rage by Philly fans. They'll want a big name for Wagner. A name that will likely be met with rage here if a deal were to happen.

MIgrenade
05-09-2005, 11:29 AM
It's not that Wagner's MORE of an upgrade over Cotts than Beltran would be over Rowand, Pujols over Paulie or Pods, or Rolen over Crede, it's that the player being upgraded is at such a low level (besides Saturday's performance) that an upgrade is necessary.

Thing is, Wagner does not replace Cotts because Cotts is a long relieve guy who you might need if a starter has to go out early. At this point I don't want to see Hermanson or Luis throwing too many innings and Politte cant go more than two or three. Cotts is there to eat innings if necessary. Furthermore, I think the Sox would have to give up a guy like Vizcaino plus young hitting to get Wagner.
By the time the season ends we will have a true closer. What's more, Shingo got his reputation from post season pitching, maybe that's the atmosphere he thrives in.

FarWestChicago
05-09-2005, 12:11 PM
People need to get realistic.Why start now?

Tekijawa
05-09-2005, 12:17 PM
The Sox have a grand total of 3 blown saves, so it's not as if we have a problem of LaTroy Horking proportions.

But that's almost half our losses!!! It's obviously a hole that needs to be fixed!:D:

I like the team how it is right now, let's not F anything up by making moves for the sake of making moves, if a hole opens up down the line then fill it, but not now!

mdep524
05-09-2005, 12:25 PM
I think its funny a Billy Wagner-to-the-Sox rumor pops up in the media after it had been thrown around here for a while. To the people who say its too early to think about a move like this, though the deal wouldn't happen until late July it's never to early to THINK about trades. That's part of baseball's charm, and this is a Sox internet message board after all.

Jjav829
05-09-2005, 12:30 PM
I think its funny a Billy Wagner-to-the-Sox rumor pops up in the media after it had been thrown around here for a while. To the people who say its too early to think about a move like this, though the deal wouldn't happen until late July it's never to early to THINK about trades. That's part of baseball's charm, and this is a Sox internet message board after all.

Maybe I missed something, but where was this reported in the media? :?:

JoseCanseco6969
05-09-2005, 12:38 PM
Why start now?

Alrighty then....Lets see.. I think we will trade Willie and Borchard for...ahh what the devil is that good SS these days....Tejada! Yeah and we cant make it a 2 for 1 deal so lets have the O's throw in Julio. Sounds great to me! Nice and even 2 for 2 deal.

EastCoastSoxFan
05-09-2005, 01:09 PM
...hey, the Sillies were desperate enough to hire Charlie Manuel. Who knows what else they're capable of...?

gosox41
05-09-2005, 01:20 PM
Agreed. If you believe the media previews, the Phillies were supposed to be contenders this year. Any move that looks like a rebuilding effort (star for prospects) will be met with rage by Philly fans. They'll want a big name for Wagner. A name that will likely be met with rage here if a deal were to happen.

My guess is that the Phillies won't look to trade Wagner until the middle or end of July to maximize value. And it's going to take a lot more then Borchard and Harris to get him.



Bob

balke
05-09-2005, 01:21 PM
Phillies are in a tough division, they are old in spots, and are probably not going to be the team they have to talent to be. Its been reported they are looking for young talented Starting pitchers. They might need to dump Wagners salary, we might need a boost in the bullpen LATER in the season. Its all speculation, but I'd say we're one of a few teams that would be in the hunt for Wagner. This isn't because we are struggling out of the pen, its just that we aren't that deep in the Pen and could use that one dominant guy at the end if we look to make the playoffs.

I'd be happy with the pickup if it didn't cost us a starter, or Anderson or B-mac. Lumping Gio Gonzalez and a couple minor leaguers with Willie Harris or something might be a possibility. If we look extremely good, maybe I could deal with losing Anderson, but it would be tough. This team keeps playing like this, a huge pickup could go a long way in the playoffs.

I'd like a Wagner to feel like we have as good a 1-2 punch as the Twins as well. Santana-Nathan v. Buehrle-Wagner. That would give me confidence in a win. (especially Santana-Rincon-Nathan v. Buehrle-Marte-Wagner). That looks like a W to me.

kittle42
05-09-2005, 02:07 PM
I'd be happy with the pickup if it didn't cost us a starter, or Anderson or B-mac. Lumping Gio Gonzalez and a couple minor leaguers with Willie Harris or something might be a possibility.

Yes, a possibility for KW to get his ear laughed off by the Philly GM.

mdep524
05-09-2005, 02:24 PM
Maybe I missed something, but where was this reported in the media? :?: My mistake- I misread JUribe1989's original post, thinking he had heard/read this rumor somewhere other than at WSI.

balke
05-09-2005, 02:31 PM
Well, it may be that we give up somebody good to get a career 2.48 ERA all-star closer who can K 100 people in a season and currently has a 0.68 ERA.

We aren't giving them Borchard and any other problem prospect up for him. It'll take talent to get talent. I don't think acquiring an all-star for a high level prospect would make Kenny a laughing stock at all, unless we don't succeed this year.

Perhaps we could get him for other talent than GIo, seeing how Wagner is making 9 mil this season.

TheOldRoman
05-09-2005, 02:59 PM
Well, it may be that we give up somebody good to get a career 2.48 ERA all-star closer who can K 100 people in a season and currently has a 0.68 ERA.

We aren't giving them Borchard and any other problem prospect up for him. It'll take talent to get talent. I don't think acquiring an all-star for a high level prospect would make Kenny a laughing stock at all, unless we don't succeed this year.

Perhaps we could get him for lesser talent than GIo, seeing how Wagner is making 9 mil this season, but I'm sure they'd ask.
Um, I think kittle42 was saying you proposed a horribly lopsided trade in the Sox favor. If KW told that to the Phillies' GM, he would laugh hysterically for 30 second or so before hanging up the phone. Without knowing exactly how good Gio is, it is obvious that we wont get Wagner for "Gio Gonzalez and a couple minor leaguers with Willie Harris or something". Gio isn't our top prospect. The Phillies will begin talks asking for BMac. They might accept Gio, but they wouldnt eat any of Wagner's salary, and they would ask for considerably more than just Gio and Willie. Aside from the Red Sox, Dodgers, Angels and Twins, EVERY playoff contender is gonna go hard after Wagner. KW is gonna have to come up with a huge package to get him.

Ol' No. 2
05-09-2005, 03:17 PM
Um, I think kittle42 was saying you proposed a horribly lopsided trade in the Sox favor. If KW told that to the Phillies' GM, he would laugh hysterically for 30 second or so before hanging up the phone. Without knowing exactly how good Gio is, it is obvious that we wont get Wagner for "Gio Gonzalez and a couple minor leaguers with Willie Harris or something". Gio isn't our top prospect. The Phillies will begin talks asking for BMac. They might accept Gio, but they wouldnt eat any of Wagner's salary, and they would ask for considerably more than just Gio and Willie. Aside from the Red Sox, Dodgers, Angels and Twins, EVERY playoff contender is gonna go hard after Wagner. KW is gonna have to come up with a huge package to get him.The issue is not "What will the Phillies want for him?" It's "What will other teams be offering?" You want him, you're going to have to win the bidding war. I'm very doubtful that he'll be worth what it will cost to get him. But then people said the same thing about getting Freddy Garcia.:smile:

Baby Fisk
05-09-2005, 03:22 PM
The issue is not "What will the Phillies want for him?" It's "What will other teams be offering?" You want him, you're going to have to win the bidding war. I'm very doubtful that he'll be worth what it will cost to get him. But then people said the same thing about getting Freddy Garcia.:smile:
Remember the week following that trade? Everyone was acting like Kenny had come over to their house and shot their puppy. Shock! Horror! :o:

Ol' No. 2
05-09-2005, 03:33 PM
Remember the week following that trade? Everyone was acting like Kenny had come over to their house and shot their puppy. Shock! Horror! :o:Now that you mentioned it, it's a good time to check in with the future hall-of-famers and see how they're doing.

Jeremy Reed: .243 BA, .333 OBP
Miguel Olivo: .139 BA, .182 OBP, 3/13 CS

Baby Fisk
05-09-2005, 03:35 PM
Now that you mentioned it, it's a good time to check in with the future hall-of-famers and see how they're doing.

Jeremy Reed: .243 BA, .333 OBP
Miguel Olivo: .139 BA, .182 OBP, 3/13 CS
Are you trying to cause unrest? :D:

seanpmurphy
05-10-2005, 12:45 AM
[QUOTE=TheOldRoman]The Cubs would go hard for Wagner except for the fact that they will be 15 out of the wild card by the end of July.
No team is out of it at the beginning of May. QUOTE]

The Cubs never go hard after anyone. Unless it's elderly outfielders or injury prone shortstops.

NonetheLoaiza
05-10-2005, 08:40 AM
The Cubs never go hard after anyone. Unless it's elderly outfielders or injury prone shortstops.

They sure did want Fred McGriff real bad a couple years ago.

batmanZoSo
05-10-2005, 11:21 AM
The Sox have a grand total of 3 blown saves, so it's not as if we have a problem of LaTroy Horking proportions. Just how much are you willing to give up to solve a non-problem? I can assure you, the price of closers in July will be high. Would you give up two or three top prospects? That's what it will take. Anderson PLUS Sweeney PLUS someone else. People need to get realistic.

No. If it means giving up Garcia type talent again, I don't want to do it. You can only do that so much before your farm system starts looking like the Yankees. We can always get a poor man's Billy Wagner for less and just have a dominating CBC.

balke
05-10-2005, 11:29 AM
No. If it means giving up Garcia type talent again, I don't want to do it. You can only do that so much before your farm system starts looking like the Yankees. We can always get a poor man's Billy Wagner for less and just have a dominating CBC.

I really don't think it would take that much. I believe Anderson, and B-mac at least are untouchable. Phillies don't want to pay Wagner 9 mil to play on a sinking ship. Teams pretty much have them by the cajones. Perhaps Gio, honel, and Lopez or something like that. The very top talent we have shouldn't be available for a closer.

The whole point of getting a Wagner is because he's top notch. Sox don't need a "serviceable" guy who's just close to Wagner's #'s. Any move they make should be for a top tier guy, who can dominate the end of a game for at least 3 outs. That means, no Urbinas or Hawkins, or Gordons. A dominant proven closer that can flat out shut the end of the game down. Otherwise, they should just stick with Hermanson or Shingo if he turns things around.

TheOldRoman
05-10-2005, 12:08 PM
I really don't think it would take that much. I believe Anderson, and B-mac at least are untouchable. Phillies don't want to pay Wagner 9 mil to play on a sinking ship. Teams pretty much have them by the cajones.

That is 100% false. If the Phillies are a sinking ship, they dont want to pay Wagner, that is true. However, WE ARE NOT THE ONLY TEAM INTERESTED IN WAGNER! As other posters and I have said during this thread, we are going to have to win a bidding war to get him. There will be at least 5 other teams who are seriously interested in Wagner. Because of that, the Phillies have those teams by the cajones, not the other way around. The Phillies are looking for the best deal. If nobody else wanted Wagner, then yes, we would be able to get away with trading a mid level prospect for him. Since Everybody wants Wagner, KW would have to put together a package significantly better than the one that got Garcia. There will be more suitors for Wagner because A) he is arguably one of the top 3 closers in the game, and he will be the ONLY great one available; and B) a lights out closer is generally harder to find than a front of the rotation starter. The Phillies know that somebody will sell the farm for Wagner, and they will play teams against eachother to get the best offer. They have the upper hand.