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Jerry_Manuel
11-07-2001, 10:05 PM
NEW YORK -- The New York Mets are apparently still trying to move high-priced veteran Robin Ventura.

The Mets have been talking to the Chicago White Sox about sending the 34-year-old third baseman back to his former team, the New York Daily News reported on Wednesday. Ventura spent the first 10 years of his 13-year career with the White Sox.

The Mets also tried to unload Ventura during the season -- but could not work out a deal with any team, partly due to the third baseman's contract. Ventura is scheduled to make $8.25 million next season. The White Sox, though, are reportedly interested in bringing back Ventura because he would be a positive influence on their younger players, and because he was one of the team's most popular players in his first tour of duty with the team.

However, the White Sox want the Mets to pick up a large chunk of the $8.25 million, which may prevent the deal from coming to fruition.

Ventura is coming off one of his worst major league seasons. After a strong April, Ventura batted just .237 for the year with 21 homers and 61 RBI.

Ventura has spent the last three seasons with the Mets, and his first year in New York was by far his best, when he drove in 120 runs and batted .301. Ventura is also the author of one of the Mets' most dramatic moments, his grand slam "single" against the Atlanta Braves in Game 5 of the 1999 National League Championship Series.

HootieMcBoob
11-07-2001, 10:16 PM
Someone start a poll that says "Do you think bringing Robin over to the Sox will make the Sox better?" or "Should the Sox get Robin if the price is right?"

I'm not sure - we don't know how good Crede is and we don't know how much Robin has left. Right now I'm leaning towards sticking w/ Crede and spending the money on a pitcher/catcher/CF

Daver
11-07-2001, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by HootieMcBoob
Someone start a poll that says "Do you think bringing Robin over to the Sox will make the Sox better?" or "Should the Sox get Robin if the price is right?"

You could have posted the poll yourself.

Bringing back Ventura is a waste of time and money.

Viva Magglio
11-07-2001, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
However, the White Sox want the Mets to pick up a large chunk of the $8.25 million, which may prevent the deal from coming to fruition.

:reinsy
We are to pay the whole $8.25M? My heart just palpatated!

Bmr31
11-07-2001, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by daver


You could have posted the poll yourself.

Bringing back Ventura is a waste of time and money.


If we could get Ventura for about 1.5 million next season, i would take him. I think we could use his left handed bat and platoon him at 3rd, with about 300 ABs. Dont forget he is a good defensive ball player. If we have to spend money on him, no way.

Jerry_Manuel
11-07-2001, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31
If we could get Ventura for about 1.5 million next season, i would take him.

I don't see the Mets taking on 7 million dollars of his salary which would allow the Sox to pay 1.25 million.

Daver
11-07-2001, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31



If we could get Ventura for about 1.5 million next season, i would take him. I think we could use his left handed bat and platoon him at 3rd, with about 300 ABs. Dont forget he is a good defensive ball player. If we have to spend money on him, no way.

Crede deserves the chance to play everyday,not be in the shadow of a former Sox player with diminishing skills,and there is no way the Mets pay that much of his salary without dipping into our minor league system for the elusive Players to be named later.

But then again what the hell do I know?

Bmr31
11-07-2001, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


I don't see the Mets taking on 7 million dollars of his salary which would allow the Sox to pay 1.25 million.

nor do i and thats why this deal will never happen.....

KempersRS
11-07-2001, 10:35 PM
He'd basically be a left handed Milkman. I'd imagine that would spell the end of the Milkman too. But who knows, Kenny could be stupid enough to end up with Crede, Liefer, Perry, and Ventura all on the same roster.
:KW
You can never have too many 3rd basemen, or better yet, DH's.

Bmr31
11-07-2001, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by KempersRS
He'd basically be a left handed Milkman. I'd imagine that would spell the end of the Milkman too. But who knows, Kenny could be stupid enough to end up with Crede, Liefer, Perry, and Ventura all on the same roster.
:KW
You can never have too many 3rd basemen, or better yet, DH's.


*****!!! dont forget too many 1st basemen.....

czalgosz
11-07-2001, 10:38 PM
It'll never happen, and good thing, too. I was as upset as anyonewhen he left (he was the only casualty of the '97 - '98 period that I was sad to see go, and I thought so even at the time). But there's simply no room for him on the 2002 Sox. His defensive skills are gone, and he probably won't hit as well as Jeff Liefer next season, whose roster spot he would be taking, or Joe Crede, who would be relegated to the bench.

I really don't get what the Sox are doing with Joe Crede right now. If they don't want him, they should trade him now. If they do want him, they shouldn't be messing around looking at other third basemen.

Besides, if Valentin is on the team next season, that would really screw things up. You'd have Crede and Valentin having sunflower-seed tossing competitions while Ventura and Clayton duelled to see who could get over the Mendoza line first. It would be a nightmare.

I loved Ventura, I was devastated when he left, and I loved that he was gutty enough to come back after that horrible injury (I still feel a little nauseated when I remember his foot pointing sideways), but his time is over. We need to move on, and as someone mentioned, look for a catcher or a pitcher. 3b is not an issue at this point.

duke of dorwood
11-07-2001, 10:39 PM
Crede has to play-platooning him with Robin would be good and it would end the Manos at 3rd era too. That would not be bad. If we have to pay enough for 23, it could be the end of

:hitless

ME

Jerry_Manuel
11-07-2001, 10:40 PM
Originally posted by KempersRS
He'd basically be a left handed Milkman. I'd imagine that would spell the end of the Milkman too. But who knows, Kenny could be stupid enough to end up with Crede, Liefer, Perry, and Ventura all on the same roster.


To the best of my knowledge he (Perry) signed a one year deal with the Sox. I might be wrong though since his name wasn't on the free agents list.

Bmr31
11-07-2001, 10:40 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
It'll never happen, and good thing, too. I was as upset as anyonewhen he left (he was the only casualty of the '97 - '98 period that I was sad to see go, and I thought so even at the time). But there's simply no room for him on the 2002 Sox. His defensive skills are gone, and he probably won't hit as well as Jeff Liefer next season, whose roster spot he would be taking, or Joe Crede, who would be relegated to the bench.

I really don't get what the Sox are doing with Joe Crede right now. If they don't want him, they should trade him now. If they do want him, they shouldn't be messing around looking at other third basemen.

Besides, if Valentin is on the team next season, that would really screw things up. You'd have Crede and Valentin having sunflower-seed tossing competitions while Ventura and Clayton duelled to see who could get over the Mendoza line first. It would be a nightmare.

good points. His defensive ability is gone? if so, i wouldnt want him for free. I didnt get to see him play much last season.

I loved Ventura, I was devastated when he left, and I loved that he was gutty enough to come back after that horrible injury (I still feel a little nauseated when I remember his foot pointing sideways), but his time is over. We need to move on, and as someone mentioned, look for a catcher or a pitcher. 3b is not an issue at this point.

Jerry_Manuel
11-07-2001, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
If we have to pay enough for 23, it could be the end of (Clayton)


The more I think about it, with 2 less teams next year and the draft it's going to be tough to trade him. If that is the direction the Sox choose to go.

czalgosz
11-07-2001, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31



*****!!! dont forget too many 1st basemen.....


Ladies and Gentlemen, your 2002 Chicago White Sox!!!

3B - Jose Valentin
3B - Joe Crede
DH/1B - Frank Thomas
DH - Jose Canseco
1B - Paul Konerko
3B - Robin Ventura
DH/1B/3B - Jeff Liefer
3B - Herbert Perry
DH - Carlos Lee

Don't laugh, it could happen...

KempersRS
11-07-2001, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


To the best of my knowledge he (Perry) signed a one year deal with the Sox. I might be wrong though since his name wasn't on the free agents list.

I believe in one of my big negative rants last season that I mentioned a few names that if they are still with the Sox, this team is not moving in the right direction. Perry was one of those. There is no reason for him to be here. You could say to mold Crede, but that should have happened LAST season. But then again, what good is real major league experience to judge players? Thats what spring training is for, right Jer?
:jerry
Damn right. (I love bringing out the old tags again!)

Bmr31
11-07-2001, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz



Ladies and Gentlemen, your 2002 Chicago White Sox!!!

3B - Jose Valentin
3B - Joe Crede
DH/1B - Frank Thomas
DH - Jose Canseco
1B - Paul Konerko
3B - Robin Ventura
DH/1B/3B - Jeff Liefer
3B - Herbert Perry
DH - Carlos Lee

Don't laugh, it could happen...

LOL!!!

Jerry_Manuel
11-07-2001, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
He probably won't hit as well as Jeff Liefer next season, whose roster spot he would be taking, or Joe Crede, who would be relegated to the bench.

I really don't get what the Sox are doing with Joe Crede right now. Besides, if Valentin is on the team next season, that would really screw things up. You'd have Crede and Valentin having sunflower-seed tossing competitions while Ventura and Clayton duelled to see who could get over the Mendoza line first. It would be a nightmare.

We need to move on, and as someone mentioned, look for a catcher or a pitcher. 3b is not an issue at this point.

Keep in mind that their may be 27 man rosters. I don't think the Sox know what to do with Joe Crede. I think Valentin will be on the team next year, along with Clayton. Your catcher is going to be Sandy Alomar, unless he decides to retire. There isn't much of a market for an old catcher with bad knees, and we know that they won't buy out his contract.

Daver
11-07-2001, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


The more I think about it, with 2 less teams next year and the draft it's going to be tough to trade him. If that is the direction the Sox choose to go.

If there is baseball next year(and this is a BIG if)the Sox will not have the services of Herbet Perry,he signed a one year deal.

Jerry_Manuel
11-07-2001, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by KempersRS
I believe in one of my big negative rants last season that I mentioned a few names that if they are still with the Sox, this team is not moving in the right direction. Perry was one of those. There is no reason for him to be here. You could say to mold Crede, but that should have happened LAST season. But then again, what good is real major league experience to judge players?

Big negative rants is how you were given the name Mr. Positive. I doubt Perry will be on the team next year.

Jerry_Manuel
11-07-2001, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by daver
If there is baseball next year(and this is a BIG if)the Sox will not have the services of Herbet Perry,he signed a one year deal.

I knew he signed a one year deal.
Daver in the post you responded to I was talking about the Sox attempt at trading Royce, if they decide to go that route.

GASHWOUND
11-07-2001, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


I don't see the Mets taking on 7 million dollars of his salary which would allow the Sox to pay 1.25 million.

I would be hard pressed to take Ventura back(at this stage of his career) even if NY paid for all of his salary. But Reinsdorf was the doofis who had HarOLD on the roster this year so don't be surprised on anything this guy does.

czalgosz
11-07-2001, 10:59 PM
My bet is they'll try to move Valentin - you bet teams will be jumping to get him. Which is really a shame, because I still feel his clutch hitting and his team leadership more than made up for the errors he made.

But Clayton would be tough to move. His atrocious start to the season will scare most teams off, and his salary will scare away the rest.

this is the way I see position players on Opening Day, barring big free-agent pickups or trades or injuries...

Mark Johnson
Josh Paul
Paul Konerko
Jeff Liefer
Frank Thomas
Ray Durham
Royce Clayton
Jose Valentin
Joe Crede
Carlos Lee
Chris Singleton
Magglio Ordonez
Aaron Rowand

Of that group, the only guy I see having no business on the Sox is Josh Paul. Our glaring needs are at catcher and in center, and our long-term need is at short (Clayton and Valentin won't be around forever). If we can pick up a guy like Johnny Damon, I'd say, okay, we're set for 2002, other than a veteran starter and maybe a catcher, but that can wait for mid-season.

We're in really pretty good shape here for 2002, again barring injury, strike or a complete KW brain freeze. I have to say that I'm looking forward to baseball next season (assuming it's there).

God, last year it was Shouldergate. Now this...

czalgosz
11-07-2001, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Keep in mind that their may be 27 man rosters. I don't think the Sox know what to do with Joe Crede. I think Valentin will be on the team next year, along with Clayton. Your catcher is going to be Sandy Alomar, unless he decides to retire. There isn't much of a market for an old catcher with bad knees, and we know that they won't buy out his contract.


Yeah, I remember the 27-man roster idea - what a horrible idea that is. All that means is that two guys who should be developing in the minors will be rotting on the big-league bench. Come on, most teams use 21 or 22 players on their roster as it is. You'll have guys that play the whole season and get 20 ABs.

:harold

Whoo-hoo! one more year! one more year!

And I forgot about Sandy Alomar. He was such a non-entity this season that he completely slipped under my radar.

Jerry_Manuel
11-07-2001, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
And I forgot about Sandy Alomar. He was such a non-entity this season that he completely slipped under my radar.

Well hopefully he can stay healthy for a change in 2002.

GASHWOUND
11-07-2001, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz



Ladies and Gentlemen, your 2002 Chicago White Sox!!!

3B - Jose Valentin
3B - Joe Crede
DH/1B - Frank Thomas
DH - Jose Canseco
1B - Paul Konerko
3B - Robin Ventura
DH/1B/3B - Jeff Liefer
3B - Herbert Perry
DH - Carlos Lee

Don't laugh, it could happen...

That is funny, but it won't happen. Herbert is GONE. Canseco is GONE. And Ventura will not be back. Lee might even get traded this offseason. So there's no chance that lineup will be put together.

kermittheefrog
11-08-2001, 01:24 AM
I hate to say this but Robin Ventura wouldn't help us next year. When Robin left I considered him my favorite player in baseball but since his ankle injury he's only had one good year, 1999 with the Mets. That year he set career highs in slugging average, batting average, hits, doubles, total bases and RBIs. He won't be the same defensive third baseman he was when he left either. We could use someone who walks 70 or 80 times a year but Robin just isn't the guy.

longshot7
11-08-2001, 04:11 AM
sad but true, but this rumour is looking the real deal, not just Phil Rogers being an idiot... I heard a total nonpartisan confirmation of this story out here on the West Coast. They said the Sox are trying to get the Mets to eat half of Robin's 8 mil+ salary. Would you pay 4mil to have Robin back, even though his offense has eroded, his defense is still above average, not to mention his leadership skills and his influence on the younger players. Sorta like a Boomer thing. It seems a wash to me. For 4mil, it seems about right, especially if he can play late inning defense and be there to show Crede the ropes.

Being as though this is a possibility - I don't know, could be interesting, especially if rosters expand. The thing is though, let's not count our chickens until the CBA and the contraction issue are taken care of. We could get Fernando Tatis. btw, as far as free agents, I still like Javy Lopez.

Mathew
11-12-2001, 03:57 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
I hate to say this but Robin Ventura wouldn't help us next year. When Robin left I considered him my favorite player in baseball but since his ankle injury he's only had one good year, 1999 with the Mets. That year he set career highs in slugging average, batting average, hits, doubles, total bases and RBIs. He won't be the same defensive third baseman he was when he left either. We could use someone who walks 70 or 80 times a year but Robin just isn't the guy.


Bear in mind also that the whole Mets team played out of their shoes and raised each others game in the process a la 2000 Sox I'm afraid perhaps too. Ex. Bret greaking Boone this year! 8.5 mil equals pitching. Pitching equals winning, ask Texas.

Foulke You
11-12-2001, 02:40 PM
I know I'm in the minority here but I really believe that Robin would help this team next year. His experience and positive influence in the clubhouse (he always is one of the most popular guys whether in Chicago or NY) would be very valuable. Any team serious about contending needs veteran leadership. With no Cal, Simas, or Baldwin in the clubhouse, Ventura would be even more important. As far as his skills go, I don't think it is fair to judge Robin on 1 bad year in Queens. That whole Mets team struggled last year. Remember when Frank had that injury plagued year where he only had 15 HR and 70 RBI and then exploded in 2000. Is it that unreasonable to think that a healthy Robin returning to the team where he had his best years wouldn't have a banner year? I've heard the David Wells/Baines comparisons but c'mon! Wells is 39 and Harold is 42. Robin is just 34 which would make him a youngster on the World Champion Diamondbacks roster and he would be only 2 years older than Frank. Also, as Reinsdorfian as this may sound, Robin WOULD attract more fans to Comiskey. He was easily the most popular player on the Sox during his tenure on the south side. I even knew Cub fans who liked him. More attendance means more money for the Sox to spend. I'd like to think that it would go towards payroll (i.e. signing FOULKE!!) but then I pinch myself and remember Reinsdorf is our owner. Anyway, I for one would look forward to seeing Robin back with the Sox next year and I encourage my fellow Sox fans to keep an open mind about this possible deal.

kermittheefrog
11-12-2001, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You
I know I'm in the minority here but I really believe that Robin would help this team next year. His experience and positive influence in the clubhouse (he always is one of the most popular guys whether in Chicago or NY) would be very valuable. Any team serious about contending needs veteran leadership. With no Cal, Simas, or Baldwin in the clubhouse, Ventura would be even more important. As far as his skills go, I don't think it is fair to judge Robin on 1 bad year in Queens. That whole Mets team struggled last year. Remember when Frank had that injury plagued year where he only had 15 HR and 70 RBI and then exploded in 2000. Is it that unreasonable to think that a healthy Robin returning to the team where he had his best years wouldn't have a banner year? I've heard the David Wells/Baines comparisons but c'mon! Wells is 39 and Harold is 42. Robin is just 34 which would make him a youngster on the World Champion Diamondbacks roster and he would be only 2 years older than Frank. Also, as Reinsdorfian as this may sound, Robin WOULD attract more fans to Comiskey. He was easily the most popular player on the Sox during his tenure on the south side. I even knew Cub fans who liked him. More attendance means more money for the Sox to spend. I'd like to think that it would go towards payroll (i.e. signing FOULKE!!) but then I pinch myself and remember Reinsdorf is our owner. Anyway, I for one would look forward to seeing Robin back with the Sox next year and I encourage my fellow Sox fans to keep an open mind about this possible deal.

Veteran leadership eh? How much veteran leadership does a team need? We've got Valentin, Durham, Thomas, Alomar and Clayton who are all veterans. Won't they provide enough leadership?

Robin also hasn't had just "one bad year in Queens" the last two years he's hit .232 and .237. Fortunately he walks a lot so his OBP isn't as weak as say Chris Singleton but it's not good either. His .439 and .419 slugging averages aren't anything special either. In the last 5 years he's had a slugging and batting average above his career total once.

When the Big Hurt had his 15 homer 77 RBI season he still had a batting average of .305 and an OBP over .400.

FarWestChicago
11-12-2001, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
We've got Valentin, Durham, Thomas, Alomar and Clayton who are all veterans. Won't they provide enough leadership?Manos, yes. Alomar, maybe. Frank, maybe, if he doesn't say anything silly. Ray "I'm going for 30 taters next year!" Durham, I doubt it. Royce? Are you kidding me? I don't think even the most ardent of the Royce supporters would ever claim he had leadership skills. But, I still wouldn't pay Robin $8 million.

Paulwny
11-12-2001, 06:23 PM
Everyone's forgetting, the mets are trading Ventura not giving him to the sox for free. Other then Clayton it's a bad deal even if the mets eat 1/2 of Ventura's salary.

PaleHoseGeorge
11-12-2001, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
Everyone's forgetting, the mets are trading Ventura not giving him to the sox for free. Other then Clayton it's a bad deal even if the mets eat 1/2 of Ventura's salary.

The Mets are trying to improve their team by trading Ventura. The Sox are simply trying to put butts in the seats. I was a huge critic of the Sox went they let the gold glover leave via free agency. I was especially pissed that the team had nobody ready to take his place either (not counting the laughable Greg Norton). However, that was three years ago. Times have changed and Robin has aged.

Time to move on.

doublem23
11-12-2001, 07:33 PM
I think it all falls under these lines:

:reinsy
In America, first you get the fans, then you get the money, then you get the championships.