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View Full Version : KW willing to play cards dealt for now


hose
05-07-2005, 09:21 AM
http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-doug07.html

I like the fact that KW will look to the farm for help if needed. He has plenty of confidence in the youngster's ability to step up. Charlotte also has a couple of veterans that could possibly get a cup of coffee if needed.

I still think he will pull the trigger on a trade after the All-Star game to help the club out. Kenny has always stated that he believes in the "win now" theory and his past moves has proved this.

How would Billy Wagner look in a Sox uniform if the Phillies are out of it by August? Good Lordy the pen would be stacked.:cool:

chaerulez
05-07-2005, 09:41 AM
Makes you wonder when they are going to give up on Borchard and admit he's a bust. The guy has power no doubt, but not much of anything else.

Ol' No. 2
05-07-2005, 09:45 AM
Makes you wonder when they are going to give up on Borchard and admit he's a bust. The guy has power no doubt, but not much of anything else.Borchard is on his last option year. I would be surprised if someone didn't claim him off waivers next year. He costs essentially nothing to play in the minor leagues, and there's always an outside shot he'll get it together. KW had high hopes after this spring, but he seems to have regressed back to the same old Joe.

California Sox
05-07-2005, 10:08 AM
How would Billy Wagner look in a Sox uniform if the Phillies are out of it by August? Good Lordy the pen would be stacked.:cool:

Not very good if it means Brandon McCarthy would be sporting a Phillies uni. The Phils are going to be looking for pitching and with all the large market teams with closer problems (Giants, Cubs, etc.) they are probably going to drive a pretty hard bargain. Unless Shingo has a full-on meltdown, I'd hate to mortgage the farm to get a fourth guy who can close out games, but that's just me.

jabrch
05-07-2005, 10:27 AM
Not very good if it means Brandon McCarthy would be sporting a Phillies uni. The Phils are going to be looking for pitching and with all the large market teams with closer problems (Giants, Cubs, etc.) they are probably going to drive a pretty hard bargain. Unless Shingo has a full-on meltdown, I'd hate to mortgage the farm to get a fourth guy who can close out games, but that's just me.

I agree with you that I wouldn't do it at the expense of McCarthy. But there is a good bit of value in our farm below BMac. I'd give up someone to get Wagner. I'd really like to make as strong a run as possible this year - and Wagner would be a difference maker. Imagine if Wagner was closing, and Shingo/Herm/Viz/Marte/etc. were setting up? Imagine going from seeing the frisbee to seeing Wagner's 98+?

I wouldn't be opposed to seeing Wagner here, but if the cost was BMac - that's another story.

fquaye149
05-07-2005, 10:56 AM
Not very good if it means Brandon McCarthy would be sporting a Phillies uni. The Phils are going to be looking for pitching and with all the large market teams with closer problems (Giants, Cubs, etc.) they are probably going to drive a pretty hard bargain. Unless Shingo has a full-on meltdown, I'd hate to mortgage the farm to get a fourth guy who can close out games, but that's just me.

It's doubtful the giants or the cubs will be in any position to be buying on July 31st.

3rd and 4th place teams aren't usually players.

MeanFish
05-07-2005, 11:03 AM
It's entirely possible that we won't deal this year. If we can remain injury-free, there might not be a loose wheel on the entire team by the time trading time comes. We've got something special right now, and until they show otherwise there's no reason to mess with it.

balke
05-07-2005, 11:38 AM
Wagner for Gio GOnzalez and someone I don't care about would probably be a great "win now" deal. Gio looks to be great, but Wagner IS great and could be a good fit piece if we are in a title run. I hope we can hold on to Anderson because he's supposed to be our future best hitter, I've heard that since the day he signed with us. He's tearing it up in the minors right now too.


B-Mac I wouldn't want to trade, just so we have emergency depth this season. If 2 of our starters go down, we have B-Mac to go to, and DH could probably convert to a starter roll for a while if need be.

RIght now, it looks like Wagner would be the perfect fit for this team. Solid pitchers, with solid relief. OUr relief has been great so far, but through the course of the season they might not get this many quality starts ahead of them. They may need more depth.

batmanZoSo
05-07-2005, 11:39 AM
http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-doug07.html

I like the fact that KW will look to the farm for help if needed. He has plenty of confidence in the youngster's ability to step up. Charlotte also has a couple of veterans that could possibly get a cup of coffee if needed.

I still think he will pull the trigger on a trade after the All-Star game to help the club out. Kenny has always stated that he believes in the "win now" theory and his past moves has proved this.

How would Billy Wagner look in a Sox uniform if the Phillies are out of it by August? Good Lordy the pen would be stacked.:cool:

If Wagner's having a great year and he's healthy, we should definitely get someone like him. How often do you start 22-7? Do whatever you can to ensure this team a shot at going for it all. Or else why play?

A closer's the only thing this team could really add right now. We're stuck with Dye at the moment and everyone else is pretty much what we want. Not that we couldn't be better. We're a team that wins a lot of 1 run games. We have a pretty good bullpen, but if we have a chance to make it great we should take it. I mean if people want McCarthy for a closer, I don't know about that. But at the least we should get another Hermanson and improve the CBC.

SoxxoS
05-07-2005, 12:05 PM
Wagner for Gio GOnzalez and someone I don't care about would probably be a great "win now" deal. Gio looks to be great, but Wagner IS great and could be a good fit piece if we are in a title run. I hope we can hold on to Anderson because he's supposed to be our future best hitter, I've heard that since the day he signed with us. He's tearing it up in the minors right now too.

That is exactly the trade I have been thinking...Let's face it. Nobody is confident in Shingo right now, and the chances that changes by playoff time is slim. If Billy Wagner comes in and shuts the door, that is a whole 'nother story. He is still a top tier closer that we can win in the playoffs with. I can see Shingo being Byung Hyung (curveball) Kim.

See Corwin Malone, Jason Stumm and more recently Kris Honel to realize the risk of high school pitchers. Gio is of short stature as well, so the question of him sholdering the load is highly in question. Imagine what we could of got for Honel or Malone at their peak...:o:

I think BMAC is untouchable, and I think we know why. I think KW can trade Gio and another high level prospect for Wagner.

mcfish
05-07-2005, 01:16 PM
That is exactly the trade I have been thinking...Let's face it. Nobody is confident in Shingo right now, and the chances that changes by playoff time is slim.I'm confident in Shingo right now. He's got 2 blown saves and 2 losses since the closer's job became his. That's not bad at all. He's converted his last 4 save opportunities. I think he'll be fine, but even if he isn't, I'm going to need him to actually fail before I lose confidence in him.

santo=dorf
05-07-2005, 01:42 PM
You just knew it was coming.........





















https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/bschalle/www/Baseball%20pics/wagner.jpg

:supernana: :supernana: :supernana:

MRKARNO
05-07-2005, 01:53 PM
That is exactly the trade I have been thinking...Let's face it. Nobody is confident in Shingo right now, and the chances that changes by playoff time is slim. If Billy Wagner comes in and shuts the door, that is a whole 'nother story. He is still a top tier closer that we can win in the playoffs with. I can see Shingo being Byung Hyung (curveball) Kim.


I would rather stay with our pitching prospects and instead use the relievers we have to close if Shingo falters. I have a lot of confidence in Hermanson if Shingo fails.

Lip Man 1
05-07-2005, 04:12 PM
One thing the Sox have going for them are some guys in Charlotte who at least know their way around the major leagues. People like Burke, Davis, Jeremy Giambi and Robert Person.

When rosters are expanded in September, especially if the race is close, these guys could make a difference by giving the Sox additional depth under potentially pressure filled situations.

Games and in some cases playoff spots have been won or lost depending on what happened in an individual game or individual at bat.

Lip

Black Sox
05-07-2005, 05:49 PM
Wagner for Gio GOnzalez and someone I don't care about would probably be a great "win now" deal. Gio looks to be great, but Wagner IS great and could be a good fit piece if we are in a title run. I hope we can hold on to Anderson because he's supposed to be our future best hitter, I've heard that since the day he signed with us. He's tearing it up in the minors right now too.


B-Mac I wouldn't want to trade, just so we have emergency depth this season. If 2 of our starters go down, we have B-Mac to go to, and DH could probably convert to a starter roll for a while if need be.

RIght now, it looks like Wagner would be the perfect fit for this team. Solid pitchers, with solid relief. OUr relief has been great so far, but through the course of the season they might not get this many quality starts ahead of them. They may need more depth.

When I watched Anderson hit last spring I was really impressed. The kid drives the ball real well. Has a nice stroke.

Wagner would be great for this team. Not at the expense of McCarthy but I'm sure they might be able to get something done without BM. That and the return of Big Frank would really solidify this team for a strong post-season run.

Ballpark Frank
05-07-2005, 07:01 PM
Whether we make a trade or not may depend heavily on how our power hitters are doing, and primarily if Big Frank gets back. The sooner the better for the big hurt, I'm hoping for the best.

swanson24
05-07-2005, 07:18 PM
I have noticed that Billy Wagner's name has consistently been mentioned on this website but has it been used by the "experts"? By experts I mean Peter "Boston" Gammons or Tom Verducci (Sports Illustrated)? I was just curious to know if this was chat room gossip or legit trade talks?

batmanZoSo
05-07-2005, 07:31 PM
One thing the Sox have going for them are some guys in Charlotte who at least know their way around the major leagues. People like Burke, Davis, Jeremy Giambi and Robert Person.

When rosters are expanded in September, especially if the race is close, these guys could make a difference by giving the Sox additional depth under potentially pressure filled situations.

Games and in some cases playoff spots have been won or lost depending on what happened in an individual game or individual at bat.

Lip

Knowing we have Jeremy Giambi waiting in the wings is a comfort you can't imagine, and a luxury few teams experience. :wink:

jabrch
05-07-2005, 08:21 PM
Wagner for Gio GOnzalez and someone I don't care about would probably be a great "win now" deal. Gio looks to be great, but Wagner IS great and could be a good fit piece if we are in a title run. I hope we can hold on to Anderson because he's supposed to be our future best hitter, I've heard that since the day he signed with us. He's tearing it up in the minors right now too.


B-Mac I wouldn't want to trade, just so we have emergency depth this season. If 2 of our starters go down, we have B-Mac to go to, and DH could probably convert to a starter roll for a while if need be.

I agree with that 100%.

And if Wagner doesn't retire after the year, and you offer him arbitration and he goes elsewhere, that's 2 draft picks for him in return...decent compensation.....Gio and maybe a lower tier prospect for a few months of Wagner and 2 high draft picks... We might miss Gio someday, but imagine how strong our pen would be?

SoxFan48
05-07-2005, 10:01 PM
I agree with that 100%.

And if Wagner doesn't retire after the year, and you offer him arbitration and he goes elsewhere, that's 2 draft picks for him in return...decent compensation.....Gio and maybe a lower tier prospect for a few months of Wagner and 2 high draft picks... We might miss Gio someday, but imagine how strong our pen would be?

...for one of the best closers in baseball? They can get more. KW has made the point in the past that he does not care about prospects or the future (having traded 5 players for both Robert Alomar and Carl Everett I believe him). If Wagner becomes available, I can imagine Williams letting go if either McCarthy or Anderson (but hopefully not both). KW wants a ring so bad that the future does not matter if he can get one now.

hose
05-08-2005, 09:01 AM
One thing the Sox have going for them are some guys in Charlotte who at least know their way around the major leagues. People like Burke, Davis, Jeremy Giambi and Robert Person.

When rosters are expanded in September, especially if the race is close, these guys could make a difference by giving the Sox additional depth under potentially pressure filled situations.

Games and in some cases playoff spots have been won or lost depending on what happened in an individual game or individual at bat.

Lip

I like the fact that KW can play it anyway he wants to.

Go with veterans, give the youngsters a shot, or package a trade with prospects.

He traded away Reed last year proving nobody is untouchable. The addition of a stud like Garcia was well worth it.

A top closer is right up there with obtaining an ace and probably a tougher find.

KW has the stones of a river boat gambler and isn't afraid to roll the dice.

fquaye149
05-08-2005, 10:33 AM
...for one of the best closers in baseball? They can get more. KW has made the point in the past that he does not care about prospects or the future (having traded 5 players for both Robert Alomar and Carl Everett I believe him). If Wagner becomes available, I can imagine Williams letting go if either McCarthy or Anderson (but hopefully not both). KW wants a ring so bad that the future does not matter if he can get one now.

You might want to amend that to say having traded what amounts to nothing for both R. Alomar and Everett.

There is almost no chance Mccarthy goes for anyone but a superstar. We're talking Gagne if we're talking closer, not Wagner.

I say this with the utmost confidence. Who can you point to as KW mortgaging our future besides Reed? And Reed

a.) Was nowhere near the stud Mccarthy was

b.) Was part of a position surplus in our system

I can see Sweeney going, maybe Fields, MAYBE MAYBE Anderson, but McCarthy? I doubt it.

OEO Magglio
05-08-2005, 12:03 PM
Wagner for Gio GOnzalez and someone I don't care about would probably be a great "win now" deal. Gio looks to be great, but Wagner IS great and could be a good fit piece if we are in a title run. I hope we can hold on to Anderson because he's supposed to be our future best hitter, I've heard that since the day he signed with us. He's tearing it up in the minors right now too.


B-Mac I wouldn't want to trade, just so we have emergency depth this season. If 2 of our starters go down, we have B-Mac to go to, and DH could probably convert to a starter roll for a while if need be.

RIght now, it looks like Wagner would be the perfect fit for this team. Solid pitchers, with solid relief. OUr relief has been great so far, but through the course of the season they might not get this many quality starts ahead of them. They may need more depth.
I'm all for trading prospects but I wouldn't touch Gio to trade him for a closer. Outside that one Cleveland game shingo has not been that bad. He's 8 for 9 in save opps and he's been getting better and better as of late. Not to mention we have Hermey down there who's 5 for 5 in save opps, our duel closer is 13 for 14 in shutting teams down and there's talk about trading one of the pitchers with the most upside around for a closer, no thanks.

OEO Magglio
05-08-2005, 12:04 PM
I can see Sweeney going, maybe Fields, MAYBE MAYBE Anderson, but McCarthy? I doubt it.
Brandon's not going anywhere.

CPditka
05-08-2005, 02:19 PM
by this statement, KW is pulling a jerry angelo, and telling people we dont need your players, thus lowering their value, or upping the value of our prospects. More or less, if u want some White Sox prospects you best bring your A game, were not desperate. I think he'll still swing a trade, but hes saying the right things now.