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Jerry_Manuel
11-06-2001, 11:34 PM
From the Trib:
Ventura's return to Sox discussed
By Phil Rogers
Tribune pro baseball reporter
November 6, 2001 11:07 PM CST
Could Robin Ventura return to Comiskey Park? The New York Mets are shopping Ventura to other teams and consider the White Sox among the interested parties, according to major-league sources.

Sox general manager Ken Williams confirmed the teams talked during the World Series. While Williams acknowledges Ventura's popularity with Sox fans, he downplays the chances of a deal.

Finances appears the major drawback. Ventura is owed $8.25 million next season, which will be the last in the four-year, $32 million deal he signed leaving the Sox as a free agent after the 1998 season.

The Mets are interested in trading Ventura for financial reasons. While they might be willing to pay a portion of Ventura's salary—they reportedly offered to pay $2 million of his 2002 salary in trade talks with the Yankees earlier this year—the Sox have their own payroll issues.

Williams anticipates entering 2002 with rookie Joe Crede as his top third baseman, perhaps platooning with Jose Valentin.

Jerry_Manuel
11-06-2001, 11:40 PM
This move better not happen. But it wouldn't surprise me if it did, it's just so Sox-ish. We let Ventura walk because of his high contract demands and the fact that Crede was waiting. Yet what 4 years later we are going to bring him back while Crede sits in AAA again? It just boggles the mind, platooning him with Ventura is not the right way to go either. What the hell has this kid done or said to Williams where he can't get on the field? And this crap about Valentin at 3rd base has to stop. He is not a 3rd basemen, (Some will argue he isn't a SS, but that's another subject) so don't play him there. His (Ventura) salary is $8.25 million next year, yet we don't have the money to sign Keith Foulke to an extension? Just my opinion but if this does happen it smacks of a public relations move to try to get butts in the seats.

doublem23
11-06-2001, 11:40 PM
OK - Robin Ventura is my idol. You're hard-pressed to find a bigger Robin fan than me, but dealing for him would make NO SENSE.

:crede
Man, I get no respect around here.

I'm sorry, there are better PR stunts than picking up an aging third baseman with dwindling offensive numbers. Here's an idea, Kenny: Go get a REALLY good player, like, oh, say Johnny Damon... At least fake interest in winning rather than being Mr. Popular with Sox fans.

Hello? Does anyone remember Joe Crede in this organization? Are they really that unsure about his potential? Has anyone ever been in a car with someone they don't think knows how to drive? Well, I'm getting that feeling about being a Sox fan.

Does anyone want to go in with me on buying this team? I've saved about a cool thousand :)

OfficerKarkovice
11-06-2001, 11:42 PM
I would be all for that...IF (and thats a huge if which i personally dont think is the case) Crede really could use another year in the minors I would love to have Robin back...he is one of my alltime favorites. This would also most likely boost attendance.

:reinsy
Oh really???

doublem23
11-06-2001, 11:42 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
Just my opinion but if this does happen it smacks of a public relations move to try to get butts in the seats.

Exactly. He's trying to make amends for the subpar 2001 with a subpar 2002, but at least we can all root for Robin!

Does anyone in this organization want to win? Serious question.

Tragg
11-06-2001, 11:42 PM
Get real, kenny williams.

This is assinine.

Jerry_Manuel
11-06-2001, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
I'm sorry, there are better PR stunts than picking up an aging third baseman with dwindling offensive numbers. Here's an idea, Kenny: Go get a REALLY good player, like, oh, say Johnny Damon... At least fake interest in winning rather than being Mr. Popular with Sox fans.

Hello? Does anyone remember Joe Crede in this organization? Are they really that unsure about his potential? Has anyone ever been in a car with someone they don't think knows how to drive? Well, I'm getting that feeling about being a Sox fan.


If they (Williams and Reinsy) think that bringing Robin back is what the fans want they are mistaken. Exaclty Double use that 8 million and go after Damon or sign Foulke. They let Robin walk because they thought Crede was going to be the guy, now all of the sudden he sucks?

Jerry_Manuel
11-06-2001, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by OfficerKarkovice
I would be all for that...IF (and thats a huge if which i personally dont think is the case) Crede really could use another year in the minors I would love to have Robin back...he is one of my alltime favorites. This would also most likely boost attendance.


How can we the fans or the Sox know if Crede is ready if they don't play him? If we were getting Robin Ventura from 1996 that would be great, but were not. We would be getting the Robin Ventura who hit .237 in 142 games last year. He was great then, he isn't now, it's time to move on.

doublem23
11-06-2001, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


If they (Williams and Reinsy) think that bringing Robin back is what the fans want they are mistaken. Exaclty Double use that 8 million and go after Damon or sign Foulke. They let Robin walk because they thought Crede was going to be the guy, now all of the sudden he sucks?

Well, I'll admit that I'd like to see Robin back in a Sox uniform - but not at the expense of winning, which makes me wonder about this...

Either they think all Sox fans are a lot dumber than we really are (I mean, as much as I idolize Robin, he is NOT the missing piece of the puzzle), or they just aren't so sure about Crede anymore. But the flip side to that is that Crede has had a whopping 67 plate appearances in the bigs...

What the hell is going on? JM, you are absolutely correct. For a team that was losing so much money, they really seem to be in a rush to flush some money down the toilet.

OfficerKarkovice
11-06-2001, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


How can we the fans or the Sox know if Crede is ready if they don't play him? If we were getting Robin Ventura from 1996 that would be great, but were not. We would be getting the Robin Ventura who hit .237 in 142 games last year. He was great then, he isn't now, it's time to move on.

Im not saying whether he can or cant but if they are going to pull this platoon Crede with Jose sh*t then i want Robin back instead.

doublem23
11-07-2001, 12:02 AM
Originally posted by OfficerKarkovice


Im not saying whether he can or cant but if they are going to pull this platoon Crede with Jose sh*t then i want Robin back instead.

No. The money Robin would cost could be spent better in more needed positions.

Jerry_Manuel
11-07-2001, 12:02 AM
Originally posted by doublem23
Well, I'll admit that I'd like to see Robin back in a Sox uniform - but not at the expense of winning, which makes me wonder about this...

Either they think all Sox fans are a lot dumber than we really are (I mean, as much as I idolize Robin, he is NOT the missing piece of the puzzle), or they just aren't so sure about Crede anymore. But the flip side to that is that Crede has had a whopping 67 plate appearances in the bigs...

What the hell is going on? JM, you are absolutely correct. For a team that was losing so much money, they really seem to be in a rush to flush some money down the toilet.

Look I wouldn't mind seeing him back either but not at 8.25 million a year. And before I go off on another rant lets keep in mind that this is just a rumor. Crede has to play pure and simple.
He shouldn't be spliting time with Liefer, Valentin, Ventura or Kenny Williams third cousin himself. Give the kid the ball and let him run with it. As I stated earlier I think Uncle Jerry sees dollar signs from butts in the seats, when he should be looking for ways to win World Series rings.

Jerry_Manuel
11-07-2001, 12:05 AM
Originally posted by OfficerKarkovice
I'm not saying whether he can or cant but if they are going to pull this platoon Crede with Jose sh*t then i want Robin back instead.

Nevermind.

Jerry_Manuel
11-07-2001, 12:08 AM
Originally posted by doublem23
No. The money Robin would cost could be spent better in more needed positions.

Yeah like catcher, so CJ wasn't worth 8 or 9 million. But Robin at this stage in his career is worth it, yeah that makes sense.

GASHWOUND
11-07-2001, 12:16 AM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Look I wouldn't mind seeing him back either but not at 8.25 million a year. And before I go off on another rant lets keep in mind that this is just a rumor. Crede has to play pure and simple.
He shouldn't be spliting time with Liefer, Valentin, Ventura or Kenny Williams third cousin himself. Give the kid the ball and let him run with it. As I stated earlier I think Uncle Jerry sees dollar signs from butts in the seats, when he should be looking for ways to win World Series rings.

Phil Rogers must be bored if he wrote that. What total nonsense. Not even KW is THAT stupid to make that move. Crede is our guy. Ventura is old and on a downward decline. There is no way the Sox upper management is goona shell out that kind of money when they won't even shell out money for proven, younger, better players than Ventura is at this point of his career. The day KW and Reinsdorf trades for Ventura to play 3rd nexy year is the day Reinsdorf sells the team. IT WON'T HAPPEN
But I wouldn't mind seeing this guy come back with the Sox as a coach or executive or something. Maybe he can replace Gallas! :)

LongDistanceFan
11-07-2001, 06:20 AM
Originally posted by GASHWOUND


Phil Rogers must be bored if he wrote that. What total nonsense. Not even KW is THAT stupid to make that move. Crede is our guy. Ventura is old and on a downward decline. There is no way the Sox upper management is goona shell out that kind of money when they won't even shell out money for proven, younger, better players than Ventura is at this point of his career. The day KW and Reinsdorf trades for Ventura to play 3rd nexy year is the day Reinsdorf sells the team. IT WON'T HAPPEN
But I wouldn't mind seeing this guy come back with the Sox as a coach or executive or something. Maybe he can replace Gallas! :) i would agree with you on this, but what is wrong with crede. did he bang JR daughter and dump her? all i heard was the crede and now, he is being treated like shiit... man can he do the job, yes or no.

duke of dorwood
11-07-2001, 08:43 AM
Considering this, even if they are hosing Crede, when we have a shot at Koskie in a dispersal draft , is ridiculous.

cheeses_h_rice
11-07-2001, 09:06 AM
If the Sox re-sign Robin, that just shows how out of touch JR and KW are from real winning baseball. The time to show their love for Robin was a few years ago, not now on the decline of his career. I mean, not that they're comparable, but look at what Baines "did" in his brief time back...nothing, except embarrass himself.

Let's not become the Cubs, please.

Dadawg_77
11-07-2001, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by GASHWOUND


Phil Rogers must be bored if he wrote that. What total nonsense. Not even KW is THAT stupid to make that move. Crede is our guy. Ventura is old and on a downward decline. There is no way the Sox upper management is goona shell out that kind of money when they won't even shell out money for proven, younger, better players than Ventura is at this point of his career. The day KW and Reinsdorf trades for Ventura to play 3rd nexy year is the day Reinsdorf sells the team. IT WON'T HAPPEN
But I wouldn't mind seeing this guy come back with the Sox as a coach or executive or something. Maybe he can replace Gallas! :)

If getting Robin ment that Jerry sells the team, I'll would be dancing in the streets whent the deal was completed. But it wont happen, but one can dream

harwar
11-07-2001, 11:00 AM
All this worry for nothing.Robin will NOT be back in a Sox uni.He and Reinsdorf hate each other and Venturas' career is all but over.Hardcore Robin Ventura fans(i'm one)will come out at first to see him again,but when we end up losing because we have a tired old has-been 3rd baseman and tread water around .500,then people will stay away in droves.Joe Crede looks like hes' ready to me.Also 8+ million? for Ventura,i mean its ludicrous.Makes NO sense at all.Uh oh,that kinds fits K.W.s'MO.How about getting one of those proven veteran starters available,like Burke or some such pitcher.

CredeFan
11-07-2001, 02:28 PM
This one's tough for me. Before I knew about Crede, I was a huge Ventura fan. They never should have let him go. If this were to happen, and I highly doubt it. I wouldn't mind seeing Ventura and Crede platoon for a year so Crede can learn from him, but what do you do after a year? Dump Ventura again and piss off all the fans? I think the money should be spent on a good SS, Damon, Charles Johnson, or another good veteran Pitcher that's not 38, fat, and bad.

Bmr31
11-07-2001, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by CredeFan
This one's tough for me. Before I knew about Crede, I was a huge Ventura fan. They never should have let him go. If this were to happen, and I highly doubt it. I wouldn't mind seeing Ventura and Crede platoon for a year so Crede can learn from him, but what do you do after a year? Dump Ventura again and piss off all the fans? I think the money should be spent on a good SS, Damon, Charles Johnson, or another good veteran Pitcher that's not 38, fat, and bad.

yeah good point. The sox needs are SS, CF, C.....

Joel Perez
11-07-2001, 02:52 PM
They should've never let Robin go in the first place, not until Joe Crede was ready.

Now, it'll cost the Sox major $$$ to get him back, and for what?

3B? We have Crede as a "top prospect". Plus, Valentin and Liefer can pitch in part-time.

1B? Paulie Walnuts, with Liefer and Frank the Tank to pitch in part time.

DH? Sorry, Frank's already here. Plus, with the DH being a hot topic in both leagues, who knows?

I loved Robin when he was here, but alas...what to do?

We need help elsewhere. This is like Winter 2000 part deux--trying to add to the problem than solving it.

Jerry_Manuel
11-07-2001, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
If the Sox re-sign Robin, that just shows how out of touch JR and KW are from real winning baseball.

Cheeses they would have to trade for him he still has one year on his contract. That would just make it worse in my book.

Jerry_Manuel
11-07-2001, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by CredeFan
This one's tough for me. Before I knew about Crede, I was a huge Ventura fan. They never should have let him go. If this were to happen, and I highly doubt it. I wouldn't mind seeing Ventura and Crede platoon for a year so Crede can learn from him, but what do you do after a year? Dump Ventura again and piss off all the fans? I think the money should be spent on a good SS, Damon, Charles Johnson, or another good veteran Pitcher that's not 38, fat, and bad.

The reason they let Ventura go was because they didn't want to pay him, and because they had Crede waiting to take over. Yet here we are 4 years later, and we still haven't seen Crede. Platooning is not going to help Crede he needs to be in their every day. This is the last year of Ventura's contract, so letting him walk wouldn't be a problem.

Jerry_Manuel
11-07-2001, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by Joel Perez
I loved Robin when he was here, but alas...what to do?

We need help elsewhere. This is like Winter 2000 part deux--trying to add to the problem than solving it.

He was great when he was here there's no doubt, but it's time to move on.

CredeFan
11-07-2001, 03:21 PM
This will never happen. It would just croud this roster more then it already is.

Jerry_Manuel
11-07-2001, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by CredeFan
This will never happen. It would just croud this roster more then it already is.

I agree it's only a rumor, but it makes for a good discussion.

Foulke You
11-07-2001, 03:33 PM
Since when did this board become the "Joe Crede" fan club? I'm not going to bag on Joe Crede but in the playing time he has received he didn't exactly make me forget Robin. He may be the Scott Ruffcorn of 3B prospects for all we know. I for one wouldn't mind seeing a left side of the infield featuring Valentin and Robin. Sure he isn't the Robin of 4 years ago but he still has some pop in from the left side of the plate which this team sorely lacks. Not to mention the huge clubhouse leadership presence he brings to the locker room. Losing Cal Eldred, James Baldwin, and Bill Simas took the clubhouse leadership core right out of the Sox. Ventura's clubhouse presence would be valuable to any young team trying to win a pennant. The price to get Robin would be high and would most likely be better spent on a veteran starter but don't be too quick to write Robin off as another Harold fiasco. He will help a team win next year whether it's with the Sox or someone else.

CredeFan
11-07-2001, 04:02 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Foulke You
[B]Since when did this board become the "Joe Crede" fan club? I'm not going to bag on Joe Crede but in the playing time he has received he didn't exactly make me forget Robin. He may be the Scott Ruffcorn of 3B prospects for all we know.

If you're not impressed with Crede yet, just remember that Ventura was 0-41 before getting a hit in the majors.

fuzzy_patters
11-07-2001, 04:15 PM
I could be wrong, but I could have sworn that Carlos Lee and Olmedo Saenz were the hot prospects when we let Ventura go, not Crede. It doesn't change the situation any, though.

Daver
11-07-2001, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by fuzzy_patters
I could be wrong, but I could have sworn that Carlos Lee and Olmedo Saenz were the hot prospects when we let Ventura go, not Crede. It doesn't change the situation any, though.

Carlos Lee was never considered to be a hot prospect at third base,he was just a good hitter that needed a position.

But then again what the hell do I know? ©