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View Full Version : It's time for Contreras to step up and...


Bisco Stu
05-05-2005, 12:55 AM
win a game and pitch 7 innings minimum. Bully could use a rest, especially cause they're gonna be needed in Toronto.

MUsoxfan
05-05-2005, 01:07 AM
If he could effectively use his splitter, he could lower his pitch count and go into 8 innings

Nard
05-05-2005, 01:12 AM
And as a batter, to destory Contreras, all you need to do is hold back on the splitter and it's over!!!

He really does need to stop racking up 65 pitches in the first three innings like he's been doing lately.

NonetheLoaiza
05-05-2005, 10:20 AM
He's been walking a ton of guys the past couple games. It's sort of his M.O. to be around the plate walking guys, but it seems like more than usual he is putting them on first base. Last game he settled down after the 3rd inning, ended up only allowing 3 walks, I believe. It would be nice to see him go a strong 7+.

balke
05-05-2005, 10:21 AM
He'll probably get support from shingo tonight... gulp.

He needs some run support and no more blown saves. he's been pitching well, despite early walks and all that. The Sox need to get HIM a W.

Frater Perdurabo
05-05-2005, 10:25 AM
As much as I agree with the premise of this thread - that Contreras needs to cut down on the walks and attack with the splitter, are we Sox fans being overly critical of Contreras and Hernandez because we've been spolied by the excellent performances by Buehrle, Garland and Garcia?

:bandance:

MIgrenade
05-05-2005, 10:26 AM
Lets hope he can come pitch like he did the night he got injured...only not get injured. That was the most confidence he has ever had and the best game I've seen him pitch.

tstrike2000
05-05-2005, 10:39 AM
As much as I agree with the premise of this thread - that Contreras needs to cut down on the walks and attack with the splitter, are we Sox fans being overly critical of Contreras and Hernandez because we've been spolied by the excellent performances by Buehrle, Garland and Garcia?

Maybe a little, but Contreras has always had a history of control problems leading to high pitch counts in the early innings. That seems to be his scouting report since the Yankmees, good fastball, great breaking pitches, little control.

hawkjt
05-05-2005, 11:45 AM
It is ok with me if he walks Sweeney like 4 times. He is really the only guy on that team that can hurt us. The ball will be flying even more today than it already has been this week. Those walks turn into 3 run dingers as winter turns to spring and summer. The ball park seems so small already with Sweeney hitting that Burls ball in the dirt out of the park. One handed.

Malgar 12
05-05-2005, 12:01 PM
I'm just happy he's been pitching well, innings are a bonus.

34 Inch Stick
05-05-2005, 12:11 PM
Am I reading correctly when I see that he has a 3.04 ERA. I'll take 2 runs over 6 innings from him every game for the rest of the year.

Lip Man 1
05-05-2005, 12:17 PM
Jose has obviously been the 'snake-bit,' guy on the starting staff this season so far, that's for sure.

Lip

White Sox Randy
05-05-2005, 12:24 PM
that's not the issue with Contrereas. If he was a homegrown kid of 25 coming into the rotation and pitching like this - everyone would be thrilled. The talk would be "once he learns how to use his pitches better...."

However, these things are not the case. Contreras is incredibly frustrating to watch pitch. Firstly, he is atleast 33 years old and apparently still has not learned how to put away hitters. He gets to 0-2 on a hitter and then thinks " I've got 3 chances to get him to swing at a pitch out of the strike zone" instead of putting the guy away. Then, he lets the count go 3-2 and can't hit the plate with the next pitch so...walk.

Lastly, the guy is making big money - he has to be better and smarter than this. You look at this guy's pitches and as a fan you think " if he knew what he was doing, he could be as good as anyone" . He has got to do the job now. Hell, he might be 36 or 37. Now is his time and the Sox need him this year. If he keeps floundering around and the Sox lose the division by a game or two.........

The Racehorse
05-05-2005, 12:30 PM
Contreras is holding is own... it'd be nice today if both he avoids the high pitch count inning and the offense explodes.

Ol' No. 2
05-05-2005, 12:33 PM
Am I reading correctly when I see that he has a 3.04 ERA. I'll take 2 runs over 6 innings from him every game for the rest of the year.You're reading correcty. Watching Contreras pitch is as frustrating as it gets. He LOOKS awful. But at the end of the day, he doesn't give up many runs and keeps his team in the game. What else matters?

Grinder baseball rule #2. The only stat that matters is W.

balke
05-05-2005, 12:46 PM
that's not the issue with Contrereas. If he was a homegrown kid of 25 coming into the rotation and pitching like this - everyone would be thrilled. The talk would be "once he learns how to use his pitches better...."

However, these things are not the case. Contreras is incredibly frustrating to watch pitch. Firstly, he is atleast 33 years old and apparently still has not learned how to put away hitters. He gets to 0-2 on a hitter and then thinks " I've got 3 chances to get him to swing at a pitch out of the strike zone" instead of putting the guy away. Then, he lets the count go 3-2 and can't hit the plate with the next pitch so...walk.

Lastly, the guy is making big money - he has to be better and smarter than this. You look at this guy's pitches and as a fan you think " if he knew what he was doing, he could be as good as anyone" . He has got to do the job now. Hell, he might be 36 or 37. Now is his time and the Sox need him this year. If he keeps floundering around and the Sox lose the division by a game or two.........

If the Sox lose the division by a game or two, you can blame the bullpen for blowing two of his well pitched 1-run through 6 inning games.

gosox41
05-05-2005, 12:58 PM
win a game and pitch 7 innings minimum. Bully could use a rest, especially cause they're gonna be needed in Toronto.

It is painful watching Contreras pitch this year. Every inning drags on. It seems like every hitter goes to a 3-2 count, especially later in the order. He's nothing but a 6 inning pitcher who walks a lot of guys and lulls the fielders to sleep.

It beats last years alternative for a #5 starter, but this guy needs to be more efficient.


Bob

balke
05-05-2005, 01:06 PM
Contreras has gone longer than 6 innings before, and will do it again. Our "most painful pitcher to watch" has a lower ERA than our ace, and has learned how to get out of jams he creates for himself. I fully expect to see him start winning soon. Today against the pitiful Royals would be a good date to watch out for. If Contreras is our weakest link, we're better off than we know.


EDIT: HE calls it! :supernana:

:threadsucks officially

balke
05-05-2005, 03:16 PM
Bump

batmanZoSo
05-05-2005, 03:21 PM
He did!

elrod
05-05-2005, 03:40 PM
Contreras answer all our concerns today. He worked fast. He got ahead of hitters. He put them away. His fastball was strong. This is the real Contreras. Oh, and his ERA is now 2.60. Why do we complain about him again?

Ol' No. 2
05-05-2005, 03:58 PM
Contreras answer all our concerns today. He worked fast. He got ahead of hitters. He put them away. His fastball was strong. This is the real Contreras. Oh, and his ERA is now 2.60. Why do we complain about him again?I hadn't noticed the time, but you're right. 2hr 10 min. The last two outings he was like molasses. Garland has been pitching faster, too. Maybe Burly-mon is rubbing off on these guys.

TaylorStSox
05-05-2005, 04:02 PM
The best thing about his performance today was that the Royals were really off balance. It's a good sign that he's working on not tipping his pitches.

If you noticed in the past, he'll grip the for the forkball all the time. When he hurried to the plate and didn't move his glove, hitters knew he didn't change his grip. The forkball was coming. This allowed guys to sit on the fastball. Then he'd get rocked. Then he'd abandon the fastball. Then he couldn't throw strikes.

Iwritecode
05-05-2005, 04:28 PM
I hadn't noticed the time, but you're right. 2hr 10 min. The last two outings he was like molasses. Garland has been pitching faster, too. Maybe Burly-mon is rubbing off on these guys.

Garland has already admitted it. He told himself in the beginning of the year that he wanted to get the ball and throw it like Burly does. Trust the catcher to call the right pitch and then just focus on making that pitch.

Seems to be working so far. :cool:

sullythered
05-05-2005, 04:34 PM
Contreras=1-0 2.60 ERA, and the league is hitting under the mendoza line against him. He is essentially our fifth starter. Stop complaining.

MRKARNO
05-05-2005, 04:43 PM
Today was very good, but in most of his other starts (Read: Not against the worst team in baseball), he's been quite effective, but he gets into a few more jams for my liking and even in some 1-2-3 innings he needs 20 pitches, an astoundingly high number for an inning in which no one reaches base. I know he can pitch amazingly, but even though his ERA is at 2.60, it's very difficult for me to say that he's pitched better than Garcia with his 2.83 ERA. He needs to speed it up, induce more groundballs and put hitters away when they're down in the count (the last one applies to almost all of our pitchers) on a regular basis or he's going to start running into more problems.

With the incredible range of our 2B and SS, I would want to be inducing as many groundballs as possible if I were the pitchers right now...

rookieroy
05-05-2005, 04:50 PM
This might be the dumbest thread I have seen in a while! Your all complaing about a 4th starter with an ERA under 3.00 so far with an excellent K/SS ratio?????? Please! I can only imagine what some of you would have said 3-5 years ago.

Typical....cant we enjoy what we have so far and hope it lasts?

:(:

Ol' No. 2
05-05-2005, 04:54 PM
Today was very good, but in most of his other starts (Read: Not against the worst team in baseball), he's been quite effective, but he gets into a few more jams for my liking and even in some 1-2-3 innings he needs 20 pitches, an astoundingly high number for an inning in which no one reaches base. I know he can pitch amazingly, but even though his ERA is at 2.60, it's very difficult for me to say that he's pitched better than Garcia with his 2.83 ERA. He needs to speed it up, induce more groundballs and put hitters away when they're down in the count (the last one applies to almost all of our pitchers) on a regular basis or he's going to start running into more problems.

With the incredible range of our 2B and SS, I would want to be inducing as many groundballs as possible if I were the pitchers right now...Boy. This is how I know I'm in the right place. Contreras throws an absolute gem, he owns a 2.60 ERA, opposing hitters can't touch him, and people are grousing.

:therapy: The line is getting longer.

MRKARNO
05-05-2005, 04:56 PM
This might be the dumbest thread I have seen in a while! Your all complaing about a 4th starter with an ERA under 3.00 so far with an excellent K/SS ratio?????? Please! I can only imagine what some of you would have said 3-5 years ago.

Typical....cant we enjoy what we have so far and hope it lasts?

:(:

I dont understand how the concepts of Contreras being successful and painful to watch are contradictory at all. He can be the most frustrating player on this team at times, even considering the success. We've seen Buehrle go 8, give up 4 and it wasn't all that painful to watch, just dissapointing. But we've also seen Contreras go 6 innings against Detroit, give up only one earned run, but use 113 pitches in the process and it was very painful to watch. No one's unhappy with his success, we just think that it can be acheived in other, more efficient and less gut-wrenching ways.

Ol' No. 2
05-05-2005, 04:59 PM
I dont understand how the concepts of Contreras being successful and painful to watch are contradictory at all. He can be the most frustrating player on this team at times, even considering the success. We've seen Buehrle go 8, give up 4 and it wasn't all that painful to watch, just dissapointing. But we've also seen Contreras go 6 innings against Detroit, give up only one earned run, but use 113 pitches in the process and it was very painful to watch. No one's unhappy with his success, we just think that it can be acheived in other, more efficient and less gut-wrenching ways.I'll take all the inefficient, gut-wrenching wins he can give us.

Flight #24
05-05-2005, 05:00 PM
I dont understand how the concepts of Contreras being successful and painful to watch are contradictory at all. He can be the most frustrating player on this team at times, even considering the success. We've seen Buehrle go 8, give up 4 and it wasn't all that painful to watch, just dissapointing. But we've also seen Contreras go 6 innings against Detroit, give up only one earned run, but use 113 pitches in the process and it was very painful to watch. No one's unhappy with his success, we just think that it can be acheived in other, more efficient and less gut-wrenching ways.

"I know I won that $30mil jackpot, but I only got 5 out of the 6 numbers right, so it's just not quite as satisfying".

What's with the general homefishiness going on around here? People seem to be pretty desperately searching for the cloud within our silver lining (you know what I mean).

MRKARNO
05-05-2005, 05:01 PM
Boy. This is how I know I'm in the right place. Contreras throws an absolute gem, he owns a 2.60 ERA, opposing hitters can't touch him, and people are grousing.

:therapy: The line is getting longer.

I've been consistant with my opinion. I applaud his effort today and I hope he builds off of today's effort and keeps this up.

mcfish
05-05-2005, 05:01 PM
win a game and pitch 7 innings minimum. Bully could use a rest, especially cause they're gonna be needed in Toronto.Why does everyone always think the bullpen could use a rest? For the week, we've had a CG from Garland, followed by an off day, followed by 8 IP from Buerhle, then a low 6.1 IP from Garcia, but still not horrible.
Our pen for the week (5 days):
Cotts - 1 batter, 0 IP
Politte - .2 IP
Marte - .1 IP
Takatsu - 2 IP
Hermanson - 1.2 IP

I'm glad Contreras went 8 today because saving the pen is always good, but the only person even close to needing a rest today was Hermanson because he went 1.2 last night. We have only needed 3.2 innings out of our pen all week - they don't need a rest!

Edit: Vizcaino hasn't even pitched yet this week!

MRKARNO
05-05-2005, 05:04 PM
What's with the general homefishiness going on around here? People seem to be pretty desperately searching for the cloud within our silver lining (you know what I mean).

All I'm saying is that he's been frustrating at times, but has been getting the job done. I've seen him pitch in about three different ways (groundball pitcher, inefficient yet highly effective strikeout master and imploding disaster). I was merely stating a preference for the style with which Contreras pitched today as I think he has the best chance of long-term and consistant success with this approach. He goes away from it often and I dont think he should.

rookieroy
05-05-2005, 05:06 PM
I dont understand how the concepts of Contreras being successful and painful to watch are contradictory at all. He can be the most frustrating player on this team at times, even considering the success. We've seen Buehrle go 8, give up 4 and it wasn't all that painful to watch, just dissapointing. But we've also seen Contreras go 6 innings against Detroit, give up only one earned run, but use 113 pitches in the process and it was very painful to watch. No one's unhappy with his success, we just think that it can be acheived in other, more efficient and less gut-wrenching ways.

Point well taken. I think Buerhle is just the same. The reason why he is easier to watch is because he's quicker....sort of like an illusion. With Buehrle, it happens so fast, you don't know what hit you. El Duque threw 33 pitches in the first inning on Saturday, I believe. I was there. That was as gut wrenching as it gets!!!!!!!

MUScholar21
05-05-2005, 05:07 PM
Why does everyone always think the bullpen could use a rest? For the week, we've had a CG from Garland, followed by an off day, followed by 8 IP from Buerhle, then a low 6.1 IP from Garcia, but still not horrible.
Our pen for the week (5 days):
Cotts - 1 batter, 0 IP
Politte - .2 IP
Marte - .1 IP
Takatsu - 2 IP
Hermanson - 1.2 IP

I'm glad Contreras went 8 today because saving the pen is always good, but the only person even close to needing a rest today was Hermanson because he went 1.2 last night. We have only needed 3.2 innings out of our pen all week - they don't need a rest!

Mcfish, you are absolutely right. In the post game show Dalgin was commenting on how Cotts hadnt seen any work since April, and the rest haven't worked much either.

By the way, as far as Contreras is concerned, he will in all likelihood never be a low ERA pitcher. He takes a little while to get settled in (which is why he throws 20 pitches an inning early on), and he throws a forkball (which leads to a lot of wild pitches for ANY forkball pitcher). Those two combined are dangerous, and it is why the 4-6 hitters need to get going.

I will say this though- he pitched a gem today. If we could get that out of him 80% of the time, we could have the Bridgeport Little League All-Stars bat for us and still win.

balke
05-05-2005, 05:19 PM
This "pitch quick" philosophy seems to be working extremely well for our "headcase" pitchers. Perhaps a good catcher or two calling good games is what we needed all along. Perhaps Kenny was right to think El Duque could come in and help teach Contreras. And perhaps we have the sickest pitching staff in the AL, with a seemingly good backup in the minors.

I expect solid outings from JC all season. This is his year, just so long we keep closing games out for him.

34 Inch Stick
05-06-2005, 08:31 AM
I expect solid outings from JC all season. .

Nice! We have Jesus on our side now.

gosox41
05-06-2005, 08:46 AM
Contreras answer all our concerns today. He worked fast. He got ahead of hitters. He put them away. His fastball was strong. This is the real Contreras. Oh, and his ERA is now 2.60. Why do we complain about him again?


Not to be argumentative, but is this real Contreras? Or is it the guy that's been around the last few years who's pitched brilliantly (like yesterday) at times and at other times has gone from 100+ pitches in 6 innings to just getting shellacked.


I hope he keeps this up and it's the start of something good. But someone mentioned before how Contreras has a lower ERA then 'our Ace'. I assume he meant Buehrle. And if the Sox had a Game 7 coming up I'd still pick Buehrle and his higher ERA over Jose to pitch.



Bob

Iwritecode
05-06-2005, 09:07 AM
Not to be argumentative, but is this real Contreras? Or is it the guy that's been around the last few years who's pitched brilliantly (like yesterday) at times and at other times has gone from 100+ pitches in 6 innings to just getting shellacked.


I hope he keeps this up and it's the start of something good. But someone mentioned before how Contreras has a lower ERA then 'our Ace'. I assume he meant Buehrle. And if the Sox had a Game 7 coming up I'd still pick Buehrle and his higher ERA over Jose to pitch.



Bob

If the Sox were in a 7-game series (right now), I think Jose would be in the bullpen...