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Tragg
11-07-2001, 12:24 AM
do not deserve to lose their franchise.
The expos - probably.
The marlins - maybe
But the Twins? No effing way.

Is it mere coincidence that the twins market abuts selig's market for the brewers?

This is a sleazy ploy to get the upper hand in labor negotiations - Take away 60 jobs, and then give them back as concessions.

Baseball needs a commissioner.

doublem23
11-07-2001, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by Tragg
Baseball needs a commissioner.

Baseball needs a lot of things.

CredeFan
11-07-2001, 02:32 PM
Baseball needs to drop at least 2 teams. There are too many guys in MLB that don't belong here. You will see better play and better teams with less teams in the league. What a deal for the Sox too. With the Indians dumping salary, there shouldn't be any one else winning that division beside the Sox.

Iwritecode
11-07-2001, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by CredeFan
Baseball needs to drop at least 2 teams. There are too many guys in MLB that don't belong here. You will see better play and better teams with less teams in the league. What a deal for the Sox too. With the Indians dumping salary, there shouldn't be any one else winning that division beside the Sox.

Would this be the same CredeFan that posts on Mario's site?

Joel Perez
11-07-2001, 03:40 PM
I could see the Expos go, but the 2nd team should be the Rays. Their attendance is sagging, and the team is going nowhere fast. But with what all is going on with the front office of the Twins, they are probably going instead of the Rays.

I think the Marlins could stick around for another year, but they have to get a committment from somebody to make a new ballpark. Otherwise, it's a moot point, and they should fold as well.

Jerry_Manuel
11-07-2001, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by CredeFan
Baseball needs to drop at least 2 teams. There are too many guys in MLB that don't belong here. You will see better play and better teams with less teams in the league. What a deal for the Sox too. With the Indians dumping salary, there shouldn't be any one else winning that division beside the Sox.

Texas would be coming over to the AL Central according to most reports.

Iwritecode
11-07-2001, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Texas would be coming over to the AL Central according to most reports.

So CredeFan's statement still holds true.

"there shouldn't be any one else winning that division beside the Sox"

Unless Texas somehow develops a pitching staff before ST.

:)

CredeFan
11-07-2001, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode


Would this be the same CredeFan that posts on Mario's site?


Yup. That would be me. I get around. How's it goin Iwritecode?

Glad to see I know someone other then Ted Nugent. I mean Daver.

Jerry_Manuel
11-07-2001, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
So CredeFan's statement still holds true.

"there shouldn't be any one else winning that division beside the Sox"



Common Code your a long time Sox guy, I would have thought by now that you would know that nothing is for sure with this organization.

Iwritecode
11-07-2001, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel



Common Code your a long time Sox guy, I would have thought by now that you would know that nothing is for sure with this organization.

That's why it says "shouldn't". We all thought that last year too. Ah well, if the D-backs can break the Ex-Cubs curse and the curse of Steve Balbino, the Black Sox curse can't be far behind can it?

CredeFan
11-07-2001, 04:45 PM
From the way the division looks , it's a lock if if the Twins are gone, but you never know what Uncle Jerry will do. As we've seen in the past 20 years he always knows how to screw it up with one of his brain storms. I'm still saying they will have to try real hard not to win that division.

Jerry_Manuel
11-07-2001, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
That's why it says "shouldn't".

And once again I've made an ass out of myself.

Thanks Code.

ma-gaga
11-07-2001, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by CredeFan
From the way the division looks , it's a lock if if the Twins are gone, but you never know what Uncle Jerry will do. As we've seen in the past 20 years he always knows how to screw it up with one of his brain storms. I'm still saying they will have to try real hard not to win that division.

From Baseball Prospectus - November 6, 2001 (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/20011107daily.html)
I'm sure there will be several other articles coming up in the next few days stating how idiotic of a plan this is, but this succinctly sums up how i feel about Bud's plan for contraction.


The Daily Prospectus: Bastard

by Joe Sheehan


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bud Selig is a sniveling weasel.

He professes to have been hurt by the Braves' departure from Milwaukee in 1965, but got his own team by stealing it from another municipality--Seattle--just five years later. Now, he wants to take teams away from two other cities, again re-creating his pain for thousands, perhaps millions, of fans.

Bud Selig is untrustworthy.

He claims to want what is best for baseball, but does more to tear down the game than to promote it. He still approaches it as the owner of a team in a midwestern city, concerned only with how much money he can get from 1) governments, 2) players, and 3) other owners. He is the source of baseball's ongoing "anti-marketing," campaign where entire cities are told to stay away from the ballpark because the local team has no chance to win and the ballpark sucks and the players are greedy.

It was Bud Selig who signed off on the brilliant idea of tying revenue-sharing payments to payroll, a system that incentivized being cheap. The two most likely candidates for contraction are the two teams that took greatest advantage of the flaws in Selig's plan.

And then he calls the places they play "markets that generate insufficient local revenues to justify the investment in the franchise."

Bud Selig is an extortionist.

This isn't about viability, or competitiveness, or any of the other marginally acceptable reasons for ditching a franchise or two. This is extortion. This is about trying to force a city or a state to commit millions of taxpayer dollars to a ballpark that will generate lots of money for private enterprise.

The Minnesota Twins' track record in recent years blows away that of the Milwaukee Brewers or Pittsburgh Pirates:


The Minnesota Twins went 85-77 this year. The Brewers haven't won 85 games since 1992, nor have the Pirates.

The Minnesota Twins have been to--and won--two World Series since the last time either the Brewers or the Pirates appeared in one.

The Minnesota Twins franchise is more than 100 years old. The Milwaukee Brewer franchise isn't half of that.
The issue at hand isn't market size or on-field play, though; it's that MLB has not being able to threaten, cajole, or otherwise get its hands on a $400 million cut of Minnesota's tax dollars. But the Milwaukee Brewers and the Pittsburgh Pirates were able to wheedle taxpayer-funded ballparks from their governments, so they're not in any danger of being contracted, no matter how long they remain uncompetitive.

Threatening to take away a franchise isn't about improving baseball. It's about setting the tone for stadium extortions in the present and future, while opening up a couple of markets for teams to use as blackmail chips going forward.

And it's more than that. By putting forth the idea that there are four teams under consideration, Selig is creating an atmosphere of fear and uncertainty, most likely in the hopes that a city that feels it may lose its team will kowtow to MLB's demands and cough up nine figures worth of ransom money to get off the endangered list.

Bud Selig is stupid.

Not 72 hours ago, baseball was on a high unlike any since the waning days of the 1998 season. The seventh game of the best World Series in a decade was complete, a fresh set of heroes was crowned, the game had gotten its best television ratings in years.

Today, he gave all of that good will away in one easy motion.

If there's one talent that Selig has proven he has, it's that he can cut off baseball's momentum as well as anyone. No one has the ability to ruin a good baseball moment like the used car dealer from Milwaukee.

Bud Selig is small-minded.

Contraction is going to cost baseball upwards of $400 million, nuke at least two markets and alienate untold numbers of fans. (If you think the damage will only be in the affected markets, think again.)

Given the costs involved, why not consider alternate solutions? Why not take some of that $400 million and use it to fund a new ballpark in Minnesota. If MLB put up $100 million, and billionaire Carl Pohlad put up another $100 million, it would show that MLB is serious about more than extorting money from local governments, that it is willing to invest in its own product, and not merely turn profits off of taxpayer money.

From a business standpoint, this makes tremendous sense. After all, the Twins' primary complaint is that the deal they have at the Metrodome doesn't provide them with enough revenue. They are essentially tenants of the Vikings. In a new, privately-funded park, they would reap all the benefits--parking, concessions, luxury boxes--themselves.

That would be creative, forward thinking. It would also prove what is painfully obvious to many people: ballparks can, and should, be built primarily with private funds. Of course, this is the exact opposite of what Bud Selig and MLB owners want, so it will not come to pass.

I said last week that Bud Selig could do more damage to baseball than anyone since Chick Gandil.

I may have underestimated him.