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View Full Version : It's the "trades KW needs to make to win the pennant" thread


Bisco Stu
05-03-2005, 11:24 PM
Preston Wilson. Not now. YESTERDAY. His trade value is diminished, KW should scoop him up.

Dye is ultimately a liability.

Moving on to the bully, I know some of you cynics will suggest the following should be in teal or some other 80's shade, but if the Skanks keep dropping outta contention...

KW should make a run at Mariano Rivera.

Your thoughts?

TaylorStSox
05-03-2005, 11:26 PM
Wilson has a horrible contract. I can't see KW picking it up.

Chisox003
05-03-2005, 11:26 PM
Honestly, right now, I dont see any trades that have to be made...

Of course, 3 months from now will be a different story, but we are 19-7 and looking damn good....

Your Mariano Rivera trade idea = you have been :gulp:

Jjav829
05-03-2005, 11:33 PM
Trade for Roger Clemens. :gulp: :gulp: :gulp:

I'd like to see more than 4 weeks of baseball before I start thinking about preparing this team for the playoffs. But as we look for trades that could simply make this team better....

Maybe a somewhat realistic option that I'd love is Aubrey Huff. That is assuming that Dye and/or Konerko struggle. Huff would look great on this team. Maybe this should be in deepink.

Maybe another lefty out of the pen, though we'll have to see how Cotts performs over the next weeks/months.

HomeFish
05-03-2005, 11:36 PM
Rivera is a dominant closer the likes of which we don't even come close to having, but, in the end, he just wouldn't be worth it. He makes a ton of cash and the Yankees would probably want a lot in return for him. Plus, while Marte, Hermanson, and Shingo are second-tier closers, it seems that we have found a system that typically gets the job done.

I'd prefer to see the following moves:

-- another non-closer reliever; a guy who can pitch 2-3 innings if need be.
-- another starter; we're going fine now, but Contreras and Herdnandez are injury risks and Garland might return to Earth. Having six starters will let us keep the least hot guy as a long reliever.

Offensively, well, we'll have to see who struggles. RF is looking like a possibility (but Carl can take it when Thomas returns), and 3B may return to historical norms.

But I'd definately look to upgrade pitching first.

Flight #24
05-03-2005, 11:38 PM
Screw Rivera & Wilson. At least until you make a run at either Sheff or Matsui for RF. Matsui makes 8mil & is a FA after 05. Sheff has this year & next at $13mil each. Yanks can have their pick of Anderson/Sweeney and a lesser prospect or 2 for Matsui or Sheff+cash. If they continue to slump, big Stein's going to demand some changes be made. It's a huge longshot, but a good one to take. Yes, it's steep. But these are proven guys and fill our current biggest hole on O.

Otherwise, I'd agree that Wilson's probably the best available guy, with Cliff Floyd being a more attractive/less available alternate. Wilson still doesn't seem "right", and is not back on track. He'd be cheap in terms of prospects if the Sox are willing to pick up the cash, but I'd rather wait out - he's not attractive enough performance-wise to make a pre-emptive strike on.

ma_deuce
05-03-2005, 11:40 PM
Sox need to trade... no one. We are at the top of both leagues. "No reason to fix something that ain't broke," they say out here in southern Illinois. Until things turn sour, I say leave the team (and its good chemistry) alone.

Bisco Stu
05-03-2005, 11:40 PM
Your Mariano Rivera trade idea = you have been :gulp:

Half right, you are. Two Fat Weasel ales and several tubes of Lime bud to be precise.

balke
05-03-2005, 11:40 PM
I think ESPN said Wagner is on the block. I'd always take a Wagner.


I don't think we need any this year. Dye will hit, Dye hit tonight. Dye will K a lot, but Dye will hit.

Bisco Stu
05-03-2005, 11:40 PM
Sox need to trade... no one. We are at the top of both leagues. "No reason to fix something that ain't broke," they say out here in southern Illinois. Until things turn sour, I say leave the team (and its good chemistry) alone.

Southern Ill, eh? I'm a Saluki alum, class o' 87.

Chisox003
05-03-2005, 11:44 PM
Rivera is a dominant closer the likes of which we don't even come close to having, but, in the end, he just wouldn't be worth it. He makes a ton of cash and the Yankees would probably want a lot in return for him. Plus, while Marte, Hermanson, and Shingo are second-tier closers, it seems that we have found a system that typically gets the job done.

I'd prefer to see the following moves:

-- another non-closer reliever; a guy who can pitch 2-3 innings if need be.
-- another starter; we're going fine now, but Contreras and Herdnandez are injury risks and Garland might return to Earth. Having six starters will let us keep the least hot guy as a long reliever.

Offensively, well, we'll have to see who struggles. RF is looking like a possibility (but Carl can take it when Thomas returns), and 3B may return to historical norms.

But I'd definately look to upgrade pitching first.

Carl Everett in RF....Well, Carl Everett playing anywhere on the field makes me gag....

Either Jermaine comes around or something else is done, but Everett cannot play the field....We'd be contradicting the whole plan of pitching, speed and defense, and while I know Dye hasnt been great defensively or offensively, Crazy Carl is not a good replacement in RF...

OEO Magglio
05-03-2005, 11:48 PM
The sox biggest acquisition as of right now will and should be Frank Thomas. Obviously it's still early and this is barring any injuries but honestly I don't see to many weak spots that need suring up.

Stroker Ace
05-03-2005, 11:53 PM
The sox biggest acquisition as of right now will and should be Frank Thomas. Obviously it's still early and this is barring any injuries but honestly I don't see to many weak spots that need suring up.Agreed

manuelsucks
05-03-2005, 11:54 PM
Trade for Roger Clemens. :gulp: :gulp: :gulp:

That would be great. Boston Gammons was talking about him being traded today on Sports Center. Of course he only brings up Boston or New York, but why not the Sox? If they can stay in serious contention like they are now, he would be an amazing addition to our already studly rotation. I would be in favor of ousting wild man Contreas, no one in the rotation has proved they don't deserve to be there.

In a great world, this would happen, but it sounds like Clemens wouldn't want to leave his family behind, especially with his son who is pitching really well. In a perfect world, this trade would be great, but I doubt the Sox would ever get this lucky. Plus, if he gets traded his contract calls for an extra four million dollars. And we all know how JR feels about money....

SoxxoS
05-04-2005, 12:03 AM
I think a move has to be made for Billy Wagner if we are this good in July. I would feel very confident with Wagner in game 7 of a possible ALDS than Shingo. Shingo would be an excellent guy to bring in at certain times...but I can't trust him as a closer. That would be an unbelieveable acquisiton if possible.

So would Aubrey Huff. Crede is slowly turning into his Crediocre self again. I am debating about starting another "this talk about Crede is comical" thread.

TheOldRoman
05-04-2005, 12:11 AM
So would Aubrey Huff. Crede is slowly turning into his Crediocre self again. I am debating about starting another "this talk about Crede is comical" thread.
I know, he should have AT LEAST 2 hits a game.
GMAB.

On another note, I agree with you about Huff. Konerko has made my punch the wall in my bedroom more than any other player this year.

balke
05-04-2005, 12:14 AM
I think a move has to be made for Billy Wagner if we are this good in July. I would feel very confident with Wagner in game 7 of a possible ALDS than Shingo. Shingo would be an excellent guy to bring in at certain times...but I can't trust him as a closer. That would be an unbelieveable acquisiton if possible.

So would Aubrey Huff. Crede is slowly turning into his Crediocre self again. I am debating about starting another "this talk about Crede is comical" thread.

Crede threw the glove around like noone's business on Sunday, he made 3 amazing plays at 3rd. One great stab that prevented a liner for a double, he was an underrated big part of Garlands CG SHO.

SomebodyToldMe
05-04-2005, 12:18 AM
I would really love to see Mike Sweeney on the team. He seems to looooove hitting at the Cell.

...the punk.:angry:

TheOldRoman
05-04-2005, 12:20 AM
Crede threw the glove around like noone's business on Sunday, he made 3 amazing plays at 3rd. One great stab that prevented a liner for a double, he was an underrated big part of Garlands CG SHO.
Yes, and Crede's improvements at the plate have been visible. He wont get a hit every game, but he is much better than last year, and there is no reason to believe he will regress to last year's form.

Like Garland, Crede changed his philosophy and got tougher. You can argue Garland is just on fire right now and hasnt improved, and although he wont pitch THIS good all year, he is a much better pitcher. Garland clearly learned how to pitch better - he is going after hitters and mixing up his pitches beautifully. The same with Crede. He got emotionally tougher and he learned to adjust to pitchers. He has improved leaps and bounds over last year, and he will be fine.

SoxxoS
05-04-2005, 12:21 AM
Crede threw the glove around like noone's business on Sunday, he made 3 amazing plays at 3rd. One great stab that prevented a liner for a double, he was an underrated big part of Garlands CG SHO.

Crede is good with the glove, it's the bat Im worried about. And this team looks to be a legit contender, so KW might as well go for the gold....and Huff is an All-Star.

Crede can very easily go 0-20 his next 4 games and hit .255...and Aubrey is a .300/30/100 guy.

Right now, Crede is fine and shouldn't be replaced. But that is about the furthest thing from being set in stone. If you have a chance to get an Aubrey Huff, I pull the trigger. We haven't won a world series in how many years...???

soxfanreggie
05-04-2005, 12:30 AM
The #1 thing we need...a DOMINANT closer...Shingo is a good 7th or 8th inning pitcher...but we need a dominant closer. Having Shingo in that spot could transition from a hard throwing starter to Shingo to another hard thrower really mixing it up.

wsoxfan
05-04-2005, 12:47 AM
Billy Wagner...:smile:

TaylorStSox
05-04-2005, 12:52 AM
Since this whole thread is deep pink. I'd probably vote for an upgrade in CF. I'm still not convinced that Rowand is an everday OF in this league. I know he had a break out year in 04. I'd just rather see him as a 4th OF. :o:

The Wall
05-04-2005, 12:53 AM
I think a move has to be made for Billy Wagner if we are this good in July. I would feel very confident with Wagner in game 7 of a possible ALDS than Shingo. Shingo would be an excellent guy to bring in at certain times...but I can't trust him as a closer. That would be an unbelieveable acquisiton if possible.

My 1st post :)

ALDS is only 5 game series. ALCS and WS are 7 game sets. Wagner would be a great addition but would be expensive. I dont think Phillies will throw their hat anytime this season. Remember they did a lot of offseason manuevers just so they could win something this year.

As far as Huff goes, why trade for just realizing potential when you really need a proven bat?

As for Crede and his bat, well...Josh Fields was drafted as a 3B for insurance if Crede doesnt pan out. So far, it looks like Fields might do well if brought up later this year or sometime next year. If Dye/Rowand start swinging their bats better, Crede's bat might be forgotten. He is a valuable infielder manning 3B.

Banix12
05-04-2005, 12:57 AM
Preston Wilson. Not now. YESTERDAY. His trade value is diminished, KW should scoop him up.

Dye is ultimately a liability.

Moving on to the bully, I know some of you cynics will suggest the following should be in teal or some other 80's shade, but if the Skanks keep dropping outta contention...

KW should make a run at Mariano Rivera.

Your thoughts?

Didn't the sox just ditch a high priced OF who missed most of last season? Do not get Preston Wilson, there are reasons his trade value is diminished.

1) the contract
2) he's injury prone and coming off of missing over half of last season
3) he strikes out a ton
4) He's been off to a slow start IN COLORADO. He hasn't been showing any great signs of repeating his career year from 2003.
5) While he probably wasn't the problem, the Marlins got better by trading him.

We already have two injury prone OF reclaimation projects. Everett has been good and Dye is showing signs of turning it around. If you are gonna get someone at least get someone with a history of staying healthy to back them up. Aubrey Huff would obviously the stud hitter du jour this trading season and would obviously be a nice acquisition though i doubt it's happening. If both Dye and Everett get injured, then fine, trade for Wilson, I just don't see any reason why Wilson is gonna be any better than either of those two this season.

If you're so pent up on trading for a diminished player, how about Brian Giles if the Padres drop out. he's currently putting up Jermaine Dye numbers but it's Giles, and you know that won't continue and they might take Borchard since they need someone to hit the ball out of that canyon of a stadium out in SD. Though right now I don't see a reason to trade for anybody to fill a hole in the OF. Dye should come around with the bat and his defense, other than that hiccup in Oakland, has been quite good.

As for Rivera, I'm pretty comfortable with the bullpen now and I trust most of the pitchers out there, not so much Shingo right now but the rest of them has been just fine. Rivera, or any of the top closers, would be nice to have but it depends on the price the sox have to pay. Don't sell the farm to fix a strength.

If I had to get a closer, Dotel would probably be my pick, just because of his proven track record to be effective for more than one inning.

owensmouth
05-04-2005, 12:57 AM
And who are you willing to trade for these gold glove/lights out closers? McCarthy, Anderson, who? No one's gonna come cheap.

TaylorStSox
05-04-2005, 12:58 AM
My 1st post :)

ALDS is only 5 game series. ALCS and WS are 7 game sets. Wagner would be a great addition but would be expensive. I dont think Phillies will throw their hat anytime this season. Remember they did a lot of offseason manuevers just so they could win something this year.

As far as Huff goes, why trade for just realizing potential when you really need a proven bat?

As for Crede and his bat, well...Josh Fields was drafted as a 3B for insurance if Crede doesnt pan out. So far, it looks like Fields might do well if brought up later this year or sometime next year. If Dye/Rowand start swinging their bats better, Crede's bat might be forgotten. He is a valuable infielder manning 3B.


With the way out team is built, I don't think you can give up Crede's glove at the hot corner. Fields would be a defensive liablity. We'll go as far as our defense and pitching take us.

SoxxoS
05-04-2005, 01:09 AM
And who are you willing to trade for these gold glove/lights out closers? McCarthy, Anderson, who? No one's gonna come cheap.

I would trade Gio Gonzalez for Billy Wagner if the opportunity arose. I think Kenny would too. Go for it all this year.

elrod
05-04-2005, 01:18 AM
No reason to talk up anybody right now. If we have injuries, then we'll have needs. But right now the most important thing we have is chemistry. Remember when we picked up Charles Johnson in 2000? The team seemed to have gotten worse. Maybe there was no relationship to CJ but the chemistry seemed to be lacking the second half.

ATXBMX
05-04-2005, 01:49 AM
If I had to get a closer, Dotel would probably be my pick, just because of his proven track record to be effective for more than one inning.

Dotel is a headcase. Wagner would be a better deal if the price is right. He's a proven lefty headed for free agency on an underachieving team.

SoxxoS
05-04-2005, 02:33 AM
No reason to talk up anybody right now. If we have injuries, then we'll have needs. But right now the most important thing we have is chemistry. Remember when we picked up Charles Johnson in 2000? The team seemed to have gotten worse. Maybe there was no relationship to CJ but the chemistry seemed to be lacking the second half.

:?:

Are you thinking of Jose Paniagua?

GregoryEtc
05-04-2005, 08:29 AM
Crediocre

Bloody brilliant. I'm now rooting for him to do badly just so I can use that word all year.

downstairs
05-04-2005, 08:32 AM
To everyone saying talking trades is silly because you "don't fix what's not broken"... I disagree. Now, maybe its a bit *early* to talk trades.... but absolutely its the good teams that need to further improve their teams (because the other good ones are as well).

I would target offense over pitching. When we're at our worst (which thankfully is less than 25% of the time)... we're stuck in 1-1 or 2-2 games, many times losing.

Heck, if we could replace Dye with someone who hits like Dye is supposed to... maybe a few of those games, we're up 4-1, 6-1....

skottyj242
05-04-2005, 09:01 AM
We can always trade for Robbie Alomar.....again.

soxtalker
05-04-2005, 09:09 AM
A couple of weeks ago, I wnted to see us trade Willie for some minor league talent. He was playing well enough to be a starter, and the minor leaguers could have been stocked for the future or trades. However, the latest round of injuries indicates that we probably can't afford to lose him.

I'm not sure who else could fit into this sort of trade. Ben Davis would, as we seem to have good depth at catcher. However, he hasn't been playing all that well, and he's been hurt, IIRC.

Frater Perdurabo
05-04-2005, 09:13 AM
Understand that trade talks begin with the other team(s) asking for McCarthy and Anderson in return. Get used to it. The price of premier players is premier prospects. What would you rather have, a trip to the World Series in 2005, or a minor leaguer who may one day be an All Star?

A trip to the World Series is worth infinitely more than prospects!

We fans tend to overvalue Sox prospects and undervalue other teams' stars. Consequently, many of us (myself included) often think that when the Sox give up a top prospect, they "overpaid." That being said, Kenny had better be a damned good negotiator so he doesn't give away the farm for a washed up and overrated veteran.

As others have suggested, Aubrey Huff would be a great addition because he will hit .300, is left-handed and can play multiple positions. If Crede struggles, Huff plays third. If Dye struggles, he plays right. If Podsednik struggles, he plays left. If Rowand struggles, he plays left and Pods moves to center. Looking beyond this year, he's signed for 2006 and could play 1B if Paulie leaves as a free agent. Because he is left-handed, Huff would make it possible for the Sox to let Everett leave as well and therefore keep Frank Thomas.

Let's compare the career AVG, OBP, SLG, OPS and defensive positions among the four:
Everett: .277, .347, .473, .820 (DH, LF, RF)
Paulie: .276, .344, .480, .824 (1B, DH)
Huff: .293, .347, .487, .834 (1B, 3B, LF, RF)
Hurt: .308, .429, .567, .996 (DH, 1B)

It seems to me that if you can have two of the four, you pick the two best: Huff and Thomas. In addition, Huff is signed for about $5M for 2006, allowing payroll flexibility to fill other holes and/or extend Buehrle and Garland. Huff makes the Sox better in 2005 and in 2006.

In terms of pitching, the Sox ought to think about a quality starting pitcher. As PHG has said previously, getting a great starter makes the rotation stronger because pushes the worst existing starter into the bullpen. This makes the bullpen stronger because the worst reliever (Cotts? Shingo?) is pushed out. It also provides insurance in case of injury. Roger Clemens is an attractive name, but would he leave Houston? If so, get him because of his sheer brilliance, his health history and his tremendous post-season experience.

As has been shown in the past, a dominant starting rotation usually wins in the playoffs. A closer isn't always that important. In 2001, Randy Johnson closed out Game 7 for Curt Schilling. If the Sox got to a Game 7 like that, Buehrle closes the game for Clemens. However, with a post-season rotation of Clemens-Buehrle-Garcia-Hernandez, and Garland and Contreras in the pen, the Sox would only need four games to win it all!

Hypothetically, if the Sox could get Huff and Clemens this year (and with Frank returning at some point), they would provide as close to a guarantee that the Sox would reach - and likely would win - the World Series. Wouldn't that be worth McCarthy, Anderson, Sweeney and other top prospects?

Ol' No. 2
05-04-2005, 09:15 AM
There's a reason teams don't make trades in April and May. It's because there's no way of knowing what you're going to need.

MUScholar21
05-04-2005, 09:38 AM
There's a reason teams don't make trades in April and May. It's because there's no way of knowing what you're going to need.


THANK YOU. Why are we all trying to fix this mythical problem?

Frater Perdurabo
05-04-2005, 09:42 AM
THANK YOU. Why are we all trying to fix this mythical problem?

Kenny would be delinquent as a GM is he wasn't constantly seeking ways to improve the team.

MUScholar21
05-04-2005, 09:46 AM
Kenny would be delinquent as a GM is he wasn't constantly seeking ways to improve the team.

I agree, but that doesn't mean we need to perpetuate a belief that this team is hopelessly broken and wait for the rug to be pulled out from underneath us. It is the first week of May, and no reason to believe that someone's slumping ways is detrimental to a first place team. When someone's lack of hitting has been going for a while, and it is hurting the team's chances of winning, THEN we fans should be calling for a trade.

All of us need to get used to the fact we don't have any ONE person who needs to carry the load for the team-on any given night, be it Pablo Ozuna or Paul Konerko, we have 25 people on our roster who can win a game for us. When that stops, then we reconsider our roster.

MeanFish
05-04-2005, 09:47 AM
Kenny would be delinquent as a GM is he wasn't constantly seeking ways to improve the team.

That may be so, but sometimes it's best to leave things alone. There's a point where you just have to acknowledge that whatever you did is working, and that no degree of analysis or piecework is going to work. I love stats. I use them frequently when arguing what moves the team should make. Is it worth removing a clubhouse leader like Konerko for a BA boost in Huff? Well, no. It's not. Is it worth unloading Crede whose glove has bailed us out lots? Nope.

Let's not concentrate on the seven times our team didn't pull through, but rather on the 19 times that they did, for reasons often not seen on paper.

Frater Perdurabo
05-04-2005, 09:48 AM
No reason to talk up anybody right now. If we have injuries, then we'll have needs. But right now the most important thing we have is chemistry. Remember when we picked up Charles Johnson in 2000? The team seemed to have gotten worse. Maybe there was no relationship to CJ but the chemistry seemed to be lacking the second half.

My feeling is that the Johnson deal hurt the team because it messed with the chemistry inherent to the pitcher-catcher relationship. Whatever anyone says about Brook Fordyce, apparently the pitchers trusted him. When he was shipped out in favor of the superior hitting CJ, it clearly rattled the pitchers. (Wasn't James Baldwin one of the clubhouse leaders?) Also, it could not have helped to have Mark Johnson left off the playoff roster in favor of Josh Paul.

This year, I hope KW doesn't repeat Schu's mistake by trading AJ or Widger for, say, IRod.

gosox41
05-04-2005, 09:48 AM
Kenny would be delinquent as a GM is he wasn't constantly seeking ways to improve the team.


True. But it is early. For example if you think Dye and Konerko are going to hit why give up prospects for a substitute and risk the chance of an injury to another player in June/July? Then the Sox may not have the prospects to trade becuse they panicked in May thinking Dye/PK were really going to hit .200 for the season.




Bob

Ol' No. 2
05-04-2005, 09:53 AM
True. But it is early. For example if you think Dye and Konerko are going to hit why give up prospects for a substitute and risk the chance of an injury to another player in June/July? Then the Sox may not have the prospects to trade becuse they panicked in May thinking Dye/PK were really going to hit .200 for the season.




BobExactly. Don't pull the trigger too soon. It's almost certain that there will be one or more holes to be filled mid-season, either due to injury or because someone is not producing. But there's NO WAY to know now just who that's going to be. You might as well just put all the players' names in a hat and pick one.

Frater Perdurabo
05-04-2005, 09:54 AM
True. But it is early. For example if you think Dye and Konerko are going to hit why give up prospects for a substitute and risk the chance of an injury to another player in June/July? Then the Sox may not have the prospects to trade becuse they panicked in May thinking Dye/PK were really going to hit .200 for the season.

I'm not advocating any trades at this moment. Rather, I just identified two players, Huff and Clemens, who Kenny would be wise to target later in the season if Tampa Bay and Houston continue to struggle. Good deals take a while to develop. The worst deals are the knee-jerk kind, because someone overpays to fill a hole. Kenny just returned from a trip to Kannapolis and Charlotte, right? He's scouting prospects whom selling teams will want in return for quality players in midseason trades. He's doing his homework and thinking about midseason trades, which is what good GMs do!

MUScholar21
05-04-2005, 09:57 AM
There are a couple problems with taking on Clemens though. Without knowing the numbers, I KNOW his contract is pretty steep, and allows him to not travel if he isn't scheduled to pitch that day. Do we want a prima donna, who may disrupt a very good club atmosphere that we have tried to get for years? Plus, Clemens gets an extra $3 mill if he is traded onto his yearly salary, due to a clause in his contract.

Flight #24
05-04-2005, 09:57 AM
Exactly. Don't pull the trigger too soon. It's almost certain that there will be one or more holes to be filled mid-season, either due to injury or because someone is not producing. But there's NO WAY to know now just who that's going to be. You might as well just put all the players' names in a hat and pick one.

This is 100% true. The only caveat I'd make is that I think depending on what it takes, Aubrey Huff, if available, would be great because he can fill in in a number of places. But it's way too early to make any big moves.

One thing for sure, you know that Kenny's got some things percolating so that if/when he decides there's a move to be made, he's able to make it quickly. And he'll make it sooner rather than later to make sure he gets his man.

And on another note, it won't cost anything to get Alomar, he retired so even if they want him - it's just the minimum salary to pick him up off the street. Everett's already here, so trading for him would first require trading him away!

balke
05-04-2005, 10:45 AM
Clemens won't come here in a million years, his name shouldn't even be deep pink. I don't think we need him either. We have the best rotation in the league, and one of the worst offenses. Now the offense is coming around a little, getting on base, de-slumping itself.

I don't know what we are going to do this season. I know that its starting to make sense to hear that Frank should wait til we are losing til he decides to come back, because it will be very tough to fit him into the lineup. Carl Everett is breaking up DP's on the base pads, is a switch hitter, and has a little more speed. He's also been ridiculously clutch this season.

Everyone knows Frank is the better batter, hands down. I still don't know if we are going to hold on to him when he comes back, as painful as it sounds. He may want to retract his statement of not playing 1B ever again, cause that might be the move for him if he can do it at all. Kick Paulie out of the lineup, and have Frank at 1st and cleanup, and occasionally DH.

I would take Wagner in a heartbeat, depending on what we are giving up. I think the best move possible would be to somehow get an amazing outfielder. i was semi-hoping the Cardinals would struggle this season, and maybe Edmonds would be available. Right now, I don't know who's out there that's good. Preston Wilson is far from amazing. I highly doubt the Mets would give up on Beltran, and Reinsdorf would eat his contract World Series or not. Barry Bonds? Or maybe Berkman from the Astros when he comes back from the DL? I think we might see a change out there.

EDit: As far as Huff goes, I wouldn't give up Paulie or Crede for him. Hopefully the Sox could use him as an amazing utility guy to play all those positions he knows.

mdep524
05-04-2005, 11:10 AM
Billy Wagner-- Phillies aren't going anywhere, not in that division. You can book it. As soon as they realize this (July?), FA-to-be Wagner will become available, and would fit perfectly in the Sox pen.


Roger Clemens-- Not likely at all, but not as far fetched as some might think. He wants to be on a contender, if the Sox have the best record in baseball come July, I think he'd be interested, a la Randy Johnson's interest in the Cardinals last July. The Sox can offer more in a trade than the Yankees or Red Sox. In fact, I wonder if we could swing a deal like Contreras + mid level prospect for Clemens. Actually benefits both teams. We get a playoff pitcher, 'Stros get a guy who is producing well right now and is signed through '06.


Aubrey Huff-- The term "utility" player is almost like damning him with faint praise, but the guy can hit and can play anywhere. Would be interesting if he were part of some larger scheme (Paulie or Crede getting traded).


Frank Thomas-- I heard we can get him pretty cheap, giving up NO prospects. Good deal, career .308 hitter with great patience and power. Would he look nice on our line up or what?!?


Others possibilities, some remote, some real:
Mike Sweeney-- Duh, the guy's a MACHINE (when he is healthy). Plus he's a Sox killer. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em!


Todd Helton-- Very unlikely. But moving Paulie for Helton makes sense long term for both the Rockies and the Sox, if the Rox pick up some of the tab. (See What's the Score? thread)


Bobby Abreu-- I doubt he's going anywhere, but with the Phillies going down in flames, who knows. I keep hearing how ho-hum the city of Philadelphia is about this guy but I can't figure out why. He's a slow starter, but you know he's going to end up among the elite.



...So, right now, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Late, we'll see. But it's fun to think about though. :smile:

tstrike2000
05-04-2005, 11:11 AM
Yes, Huff is an intriguing possibility. He's been a .300/30/100 guy every year so far. I think an interesting trade might be Dye and Cotts for Huff. The only other possibility on the list above I see is Billy Wagner.

TheOldRoman
05-04-2005, 11:12 AM
There are a couple problems with taking on Clemens though. Without knowing the numbers, I KNOW his contract is pretty steep, and allows him to not travel if he isn't scheduled to pitch that day. Do we want a prima donna, who may disrupt a very good club atmosphere that we have tried to get for years? Plus, Clemens gets an extra $3 mill if he is traded onto his yearly salary, due to a clause in his contract.
Actually, his contract says that if he isnt scheduled to pitch on a road trip, he doesnt have to travel with the team. That could only possibly apply to a three game road trip, and do you know how many time the Sox go on the road for only three games this year? Zero. Furthermore, Im not sure if Clemens has actually missed a roadtrip, anyway.

Flight #24
05-04-2005, 11:21 AM
Yes, Huff is an intriguing possibility. He's been a .300/30/100 guy every year so far. I think an interesting trade might be Dye and Cotts for Huff. The only other possibility on the list above I see is Billy Wagner.

That's a no-brainer, but I highly highly doubt that the DRays are going to give him up for that little. They'd have to think Cotts was the second coming of BMac to do that. Remember - Huff's not even all that expensive!

MUScholar21
05-04-2005, 11:24 AM
Actually, his contract says that if he isnt scheduled to pitch on a road trip, he doesnt have to travel with the team. That could only possibly apply to a three game road trip, and do you know how many time the Sox go on the road for only three games this year? Zero. Furthermore, Im not sure if Clemens has actually missed a roadtrip, anyway.

Clemens usually just joins up with them the day before he is scheduled to pitch, and heads home afterwards from what I've heard.

MUScholar21
05-04-2005, 11:26 AM
Yes, Huff is an intriguing possibility. He's been a .300/30/100 guy every year so far. I think an interesting trade might be Dye and Cotts for Huff. The only other possibility on the list above I see is Billy Wagner.

They are talking about giving up Danys Baez right now for a good outfielder (which it is a seller's market in this case considering how bad closers have been thus far), so IMO they won't want to give up the one good position player they have-especially with the whole AL East turned upside down.

A man can dream though......

Randar68
05-04-2005, 11:42 AM
Sox need to trade... no one. We are at the top of both leagues. "No reason to fix something that ain't broke," they say out here in southern Illinois. Until things turn sour, I say leave the team (and its good chemistry) alone.

The Sox will need to deal for a middle of the order bat if Dye, Rowand and GIDPauly still are blowing chunks by June.

Carl has been the only consistent guy in the middle of the order and Konerko and Dye are hitting about a combine .050 w/ RISP. They could bench Dye and bring up Brian Anderson mid-season, but he's going to be unproven as well.

What the hell do you do with Pauly? He's been worse than TERRIBLE.

SoxxoS
05-04-2005, 11:47 AM
I'm not advocating any trades at this moment. Rather, I just identified two players, Huff and Clemens, who Kenny would be wise to target later in the season if Tampa Bay and Houston continue to struggle. Good deals take a while to develop. The worst deals are the knee-jerk kind, because someone overpays to fill a hole. Kenny just returned from a trip to Kannapolis and Charlotte, right? He's scouting prospects whom selling teams will want in return for quality players in midseason trades. He's doing his homework and thinking about midseason trades, which is what good GMs do!

My point exactly, Frater. And I think KW is going to heed our advice.

veeter
05-04-2005, 11:49 AM
Preston Wilson. Not now. YESTERDAY. His trade value is diminished, KW should scoop him up.

Dye is ultimately a liability.

Moving on to the bully, I know some of you cynics will suggest the following should be in teal or some other 80's shade, but if the Skanks keep dropping outta contention...

KW should make a run at Mariano Rivera.

Your thoughts? The statement that Dye is ultimately a liabilty has no merit. What is this "thought" based on? His poor start? Look at the guy's record. He will hit and he is a GREAT right fielder which will also prove out. The Mike North impersonation is weak.

SoxxoS
05-04-2005, 11:50 AM
The Sox will need to deal for a middle of the order bat if Dye, Rowand and GIDPauly still are blowing chunks by June.

Carl has been the only consistent guy in the middle of the order and Konerko and Dye are hitting about a combine .050 w/ RISP. They could bench Dye and bring up Brian Anderson mid-season, but he's going to be unproven as well.

What the hell do you do with Pauly? He's been worse than TERRIBLE.

Right. I hope not...BUT...this could be a year circa 2003 for Paulie. Nobody knows. And KW better not stand for it. As stated before, Aubrey can play 3B, 1B or the OF. Conisidentally, the three positions we might have holes midseason.

Add Billy Wagner and Aubrey Huff and I see no holes and I wouldn't understand why this team couldn't go very deep into the playoffs. Sure, we will probably be without a Gio Gonzalez and another top prospect, but it's worth it.

Baby Fisk
05-04-2005, 11:55 AM
As has been shown in the past, a dominant starting rotation usually wins in the playoffs. A closer isn't always that important. In 2001, Randy Johnson closed out Game 7 for Curt Schilling. If the Sox got to a Game 7 like that, Buehrle closes the game for Clemens. However, with a post-season rotation of Clemens-Buehrle-Garcia-Hernandez, and Garland and Contreras in the pen, the Sox would only need four games to win it all!

Hypothetically, if the Sox could get Huff and Clemens this year (and with Frank returning at some point), they would provide as close to a guarantee that the Sox would reach - and likely would win - the World Series. Wouldn't that be worth McCarthy, Anderson, Sweeney and other top prospects?

Frater, sometimes your posts are better than [insert illicit substance or activity of your choice]. :wired:

Randar68
05-04-2005, 12:14 PM
Add Billy Wagner and Aubrey Huff and I see no holes and I wouldn't understand why this team couldn't go very deep into the playoffs. Sure, we will probably be without a Gio Gonzalez and another top prospect, but it's worth it.

I just don't know that you trade for a 1B/3B with any kind of long contract. They have Crede on the cheap for a couple more years and Josh Fields in AA will be ready in a year, probably, and you could always put him at 1st and keep Crede at 3rd.

Trade for a 1st baseman now, and you'll have to find a way to move Konerko in the process. Carl and Frank are both essentially DH's, although Carl could play LF if you need to shift the OF around.

maurice
05-04-2005, 12:43 PM
I'd love to see Huff at 1B, but I don't see them benching Konerko. I also don't see them trading for an OF with a >1 year deal. They have plenty of those + Anderson on deck. The Sox bullpen is as deep as anybody's.

IMHO, you'll see no major activity until the trade deadline, when KW will take a serious look at the best available bats and starting pitchers.

Randar68
05-04-2005, 12:48 PM
I'd love to see Huff at 1B, but I don't see them benching Konerko. I also don't see them trading for an OF with a >1 year deal. They have plenty of those + Anderson on deck. The Sox bullpen is as deep as anybody's.

IMHO, you'll see no major activity until the trade deadline, when KW will take a serious look at the best available bats and starting pitchers.

I really think this isn't too far from the truth. They may take a look at Steve Karsay, maybe not. I think they could certainly use a top-notch closer, but there's usually only about one of those available each year with about 5+ possible suitors.

Again, if Frank comes back and produces Frank numbers, I doubt they do anything unless Konerko/Dye/Rowand continue to be the black holes they've been up until now. If that's true, they'll need a big bat from somewhere with only really an OF spot or 1B availble to stick one. And at first I doubt they'll be looking for a long-term answer without getting rid of Konerko at the same time.

Ol' No. 2
05-04-2005, 12:59 PM
I really think this isn't too far from the truth. They may take a look at Steve Karsay, maybe not. I think they could certainly use a top-notch closer, but there's usually only about one of those available each year with about 5+ possible suitors.

Again, if Frank comes back and produces Frank numbers, I doubt they do anything unless Konerko/Dye/Rowand continue to be the black holes they've been up until now. If that's true, they'll need a big bat from somewhere with only really an OF spot or 1B availble to stick one. And at first I doubt they'll be looking for a long-term answer without getting rid of Konerko at the same time.Frank is the engine that pulls the train. Put him back in the lineup and all those other guys will start hitting. They may even start hitting on their own once the weather warms up.

Randar68
05-04-2005, 01:14 PM
Frank is the engine that pulls the train. Put him back in the lineup and all those other guys will start hitting. They may even start hitting on their own once the weather warms up.

Rowand is a career <.200 hitter in April, I'm less concerned about him, he looks like he's somewhat comfortable at the plate.

However, Konerko and Dye have looked completely overmatched for most of the season thus far. Konerko looks like he's had a labotamy at the plate. No plan, no comfort level, no idea what he's doing in various situations, just looks hopelessly lost right now.

Yes, Frank is the engine, but he'll clog up the bases as bad as Konerko now with a bad ankle, and he can't make Konerko get his head out of his ass just by showing up. Replacing Carl with Frank at this point is about an even trade, IMO. If we're in this same predicament, they'll have to find a way to get Carl AND Frank in the line-up as often as possible, and that will involve Pods in CF and Rowand in RF, most likely.

balke
05-04-2005, 01:24 PM
Randar is right, and that is something that has me concerned. I love Pods in Left, but in Center he's kinda a liability. Dye will probably warm up now, and be an average batter, but great RF. So what we have is a guy at first who sucks, and 4 outfielders with conflicting pluses and minuses. That, or 2 great DH's both with their own ups and downs.

So to me the main problem is Konerko. He could very well be 2003esgue. His batspeed is very reminiscent of that year. He didn't really do much but hit HR's and GIDP a lot LAST season even. Its a bit much to hope for, but as I said before I'd like to see Frank try 1st again to push Konerko out of the lineup a few times. That, or we need to find a great player like Huff who can play multiple positions like 1B for a slumping Konerko, RF for a slumping Dye, or 3B if Crede slumps again. That's kind of a lot to ask for though. Right now, it looks like we're going to have a great player on the bench one way or the other when Frank comes back.... and I guess that's not such a bad thing.

While we're busy figuring out the problems in the lineup, our pitching staff has been super healthy so far. I'm wondering if an injury or two causes a chain reaction in that area. That may be why Wagner or dotel could be a good thing for this team. There's no guarantee B-Mac is a good fill-in from the minors either.

ohhoy
05-04-2005, 01:27 PM
if and when frank gets back, if carl is still hitting well what do you think kenny williams/ozzie will do? Do you think they will attempt to trade one of them for maybe help in the bullpen? We can't start both of them at DH one of them isnt any use to us if they are riding pine.

Iron Dragon
05-04-2005, 01:40 PM
I think the best move possible would be to somehow get an amazing outfielder. i was semi-hoping the Cardinals would struggle this season, and maybe Edmonds would be available. Right now, I don't know who's out there that's good. Preston Wilson is far from amazing. I highly doubt the Mets would give up on Beltran, and Reinsdorf would eat his contract World Series or not. Barry Bonds? Or maybe Berkman from the Astros when he comes back from the DL? I think we might see a change out there.

I'm not sure how, or if, this could happen, but if you want an outfielder, trade for Miguel Cabrera, hands down. The dude is hitting over .350, has 5 HRs, 22 RBIs, makes ONLY $370,000, and is 22 (TWENTY-TWO!) years old. And he's already got playoff/World Series experience. What would that be worth to you?

balke
05-04-2005, 01:42 PM
I think the Marlins will keep winning though. I guess a trade is still possible, but I'm pretty sure they'll hang on to him until they lose. And to me they might sneak the division away from the Braves for the first time ever.

TaylorStSox
05-04-2005, 01:45 PM
I'm not sure how, or if, this could happen, but if you want an outfielder, trade for Miguel Cabrera, hands down. The dude is hitting over .350, has 5 HRs, 22 RBIs, makes ONLY $370,000, and is 22 (TWENTY-TWO!) years old. And he's already got playoff/World Series experience. What would that be worth to you?

He's probably the most untouchable guy in the league. We might as well ask for Beltran at a discount.

Randar68
05-04-2005, 01:50 PM
He's probably the most untouchable guy in the league. We might as well ask for Beltran at a discount.

Yep, there is no chance in hell a team could put together a pcakage to get Cabrera right now without giving away all their talent under the age of 22.

It would be like wanting to trade for Beltran with the Mets picking up every dollar of his contract and just giving them Paul Konerko...

Iron Dragon
05-04-2005, 01:53 PM
I agree the Marlins probably will keep winning this season. And that he is, or is close to, untouchable. But he's not going to continue to make $370k per year forever. I'm not sure when his contract is up, but the Marlins have a track record of being cheap. Trade him now before he makes too much! Or should that be pink?

Jjav829
05-04-2005, 01:59 PM
I'm not sure how, or if, this could happen, but if you want an outfielder, trade for Miguel Cabrera, hands down. The dude is hitting over .350, has 5 HRs, 22 RBIs, makes ONLY $370,000, and is 22 (TWENTY-TWO!) years old. And he's already got playoff/World Series experience. What would that be worth to you?

Let's at least limit these trade ideas to those that are somewhat possible. Suggesting we trade for Miguel Cabrera is like saying we should go after Albert Pujols. Seriously, you just built a case for why the Marlins should keep him. Even IF the Marlins considered trading him - which is about as likely as Albert Pujols demanding a trade to the White Sox - they'd be asking for something like Buehrle, Uribe, McCarthy and Anderson in return. In other words, his cost wouldn't be worth it.

Ol' No. 2
05-04-2005, 02:07 PM
Rowand is a career <.200 hitter in April, I'm less concerned about him, he looks like he's somewhat comfortable at the plate.

However, Konerko and Dye have looked completely overmatched for most of the season thus far. Konerko looks like he's had a labotamy at the plate. No plan, no comfort level, no idea what he's doing in various situations, just looks hopelessly lost right now.

Yes, Frank is the engine, but he'll clog up the bases as bad as Konerko now with a bad ankle, and he can't make Konerko get his head out of his ass just by showing up. Replacing Carl with Frank at this point is about an even trade, IMO. If we're in this same predicament, they'll have to find a way to get Carl AND Frank in the line-up as often as possible, and that will involve Pods in CF and Rowand in RF, most likely.But wouldn't you expect the whole middle of the order to hit better with Frank in the lineup? Protection works both ways. A good hitter ahead of you, by getting on base, will get you better pitches to hit almost as effectively as one behind you. It seems to me that this is the problem now. With no one in the middle hitting well, none of them are getting anything decent to hit. They're interdependent.

Randar68
05-04-2005, 02:13 PM
But wouldn't you expect the whole middle of the order to hit better with Frank in the lineup? Protection works both ways. A good hitter ahead of you, by getting on base, will get you better pitches to hit almost as effectively as one behind you. It seems to me that this is the problem now. With no one in the middle hitting well, none of them are getting anything decent to hit. They're interdependent.

Konerko's had a ton of chances with men on base and hasn't done a damned thing. Pods' OBP is over .350 and Iguchi's is just a hair under .400. Has that helped him?

Edit: In addition, if it's the hitters behind Konerko who are causing pitchers to not throw him anything, then putting Frank in front of him won't change that one bit.

Ol' No. 2
05-04-2005, 02:24 PM
Konerko's had a ton of chances with men on base and hasn't done a damned thing. Pods' OBP is over .350 and Iguchi's is just a hair under .400. Has that helped him?

Edit: In addition, if it's the hitters behind Konerko who are causing pitchers to not throw him anything, then putting Frank in front of him won't change that one bit.I was referring mainly to the whole group in the middle, none of whom have hit for diddly squat. Why give Rowand a pass and not anyone else? Konerko has always been a streaky hitter, and when he goes south, it's usually for a month at a time. He was hot as hell for the first week or two, then cooled off. I'm not ready to start making 2003 comparisons based on a few bad weeks, but if it continues, it's definately a problem they may have to address. Same for Dye and Rowand.

TaylorStSox
05-04-2005, 02:51 PM
I agree the Marlins probably will keep winning this season. And that he is, or is close to, untouchable. But he's not going to continue to make $370k per year forever. I'm not sure when his contract is up, but the Marlins have a track record of being cheap. Trade him now before he makes too much! Or should that be pink?

It's not about the Marlins being in contention. You don't trade 22 year old studs when they make the minimum. What for? To get another 22 year old stud that makes the minimum?

Randar68
05-04-2005, 02:56 PM
I was referring mainly to the whole group in the middle, none of whom have hit for diddly squat. Why give Rowand a pass and not anyone else? Konerko has always been a streaky hitter, and when he goes south, it's usually for a month at a time. He was hot as hell for the first week or two, then cooled off. I'm not ready to start making 2003 comparisons based on a few bad weeks, but if it continues, it's definately a problem they may have to address. Same for Dye and Rowand.

Most know I'm that last person that's ever given Aaron a "pass". But he's had some big clutch hits and hasn't looked overmatched at the plate like Konerko has for the past 3 weeks. When Rowand is bad, he's getting himself out. Pauly is the #4 hitter and is leading all of baseball in GIDP's... He's the biggest rally-killer on a consistent basis I think I've ever seen, and I'm talking career-wise, not just this year.

Ol' No. 2
05-04-2005, 03:02 PM
Most know I'm that last person that's ever given Aaron a "pass". But he's had some big clutch hits and hasn't looked overmatched at the plate like Konerko has for the past 3 weeks. When Rowand is bad, he's getting himself out. Pauly is the #4 hitter and is leading all of baseball in GIDP's... He's the biggest rally-killer on a consistent basis I think I've ever seen, and I'm talking career-wise, not just this year.I looked it up once a while back. Konerko is something like 6th all-time and second among active players in GIDP/AB. It sucks to be slow. OTOH, except for his horrible 2003, he's averaged about 100 RBI a year. I can live with a few GIDP for that.

maurice
05-04-2005, 03:18 PM
Most know I'm that last person that's ever given Aaron a "pass"

:rolling: I think ON2 might have started here after the FOC Wars.

IMHO, Rowand has established that he can be counted on for .280+ AVE, 20+ HR, and above-average speed and defense at any OF position. That's a pretty valuable player to have in your lineup, especially at his salary.

Konerko's one-dimensional and highly paid. He's a very bad situational hitter and essentially the opposite of the ideal Ozzie-ball player. He can't run at all and his lack of range limits him to 1B. When he's hot, he hits plenty of HRs, thereby producing runs in bunches and helping the team win games. The rest of the time, he Ks, grounds out with runners on, and pops and flies out with the bases empty. If somebody offers him a decent contract this offseason, I doubt KW will be willing to match.

maurice
05-04-2005, 03:23 PM
Konerko is something like 6th all-time and second among active players in GIDP/AB. It sucks to be slow.

It's not just his footspeed. He has this amazing propensity to hit groundballs to the SS and 3B with a man on 1B and less than 2 outs. The rest of the time, he has no problem hitting the ball in the air. It's downright bizarre. Having evolved into a dead pull hitter, I guess it's out of the question to expect him to hit behind the runner once in awhile.

Ol' No. 2
05-04-2005, 03:32 PM
It's not just his footspeed. He has this amazing propensity to hit groundballs to the SS and 3B with a man on 1B and less than 2 outs. The rest of the time, he has no problem hitting the ball in the air. It's downright bizarre. Having evolved into a dead pull hitter, I guess it's out of the question to expect him to hit behind the runner once in awhile.I wouldn't necessarily say that. I recall hearing him talking at SoxFest a few years ago (in the Jerry Manuel era) where he said he was intentionally sacrificing hitting for average and hitting the other way because hitting for power was his role on the team. (Three guesses where he got that idea.) Anyway, that suggests it's something he's chosen to do and he can just as easily choose not to. There may be some period of adjustment, but we'll see.

maurice
05-04-2005, 03:38 PM
Check out his hit charts on mlb.com. Years ago, he regularly gave himself up to hit behind the runner with moderate success. The last 2 or 3 years, almost everything is to the left side or up the middle. This year alone, he hasn't hit a single groundball that went more than 20 feet to the right of 2B at the Cell. The sheer number of groundballs to the left side is staggering.

Ol' No. 2
05-04-2005, 04:05 PM
Check out his hit charts on mlb.com. Years ago, he regularly gave himself up to hit behind the runner with moderate success. The last 2 or 3 years, almost everything is to the left side or up the middle. This year alone, he hasn't hit a single groundball that went more than 20 feet to the right of 2B at the Cell. The sheer number of groundballs to the left side is staggering.I can't say I see any differences among the years up through 2004. They all have a pretty high concentration on the left side with only a few g's more than a little to the right 2B. 2005 is still a pretty small sample size.

I guess I'm prepared to cut him some slack for a while. If he puts up 100 RBI, I won't beef too much about the not-so-occasional GIDP.

DickAllen72
05-04-2005, 04:29 PM
What's Scott Sullivan doing these days? If he's still pitching like he used to, he'd be a nice little pick-up.

Frater Perdurabo
05-04-2005, 04:40 PM
The beauty of Aubrey Huff is his versatility. He could play any of the following positions and therefore fill in for the player who is most costing the Sox at any given point: 3B, 1B, RF, LF, DH.

Based on the fast start, this is the year to go for it all. If the Sox find they need a pitcher - and a team can never have enough pitching - go for the best available starting pitcher! Right now that would seem to be Clemens. Getting the best available starting pitcher pushes the worst of the remaining five starters to the bullpen, making the bullpen better! If he's available and willing to come here, go get him!

I'd give my left nut for a legitimate shot at the World Series. KW should be prepared to part with top-level minor league prospects if he wants to get top-flight veteran pitchers or hitters. The problem is when they give up top-level prospects for marginal to mid-level veterans (Robbie Alomar, etc.).

Of course it is too early to make a trade on May 4. However, a GM should never pass up an opportunity to improve his team, especially since the Sox haven't been to the World Series since 1959. Teams won't give up top level talent unless they get great potential or near-equal but cheaper proven talent in return. Take off the rose-colored glasses, people: We may love them because they are Sox players, but Konerko, Cotts and Dye are not top level prospects or top-flight proven talent.

balke
05-04-2005, 05:08 PM
Maybe we should cool it on the WS talk for a bit. I'm glad at the SHOT to be in the playoffs. Long season ahead, we'll see if we'll be trading to get stronger, if we'll even need to trade to get stronger, or if we are trading just to have a shot at the central next season.

hose
05-04-2005, 05:50 PM
Jeremy Giambi could be an option for KW if he needs help in the outfield before the All-Star break. Giambi has experience and could fill the spot until a trade or another move was determined to be needed.

Strictly a stop gap move.

Randar68
05-04-2005, 05:58 PM
Jeremy Giambi could be an option for KW if he needs help in the outfield before the All-Star break. Giambi has experience and could fill the spot until a trade or another move was determined to be needed.

Strictly a stop gap move.

Ever hear of Brian Anderson?

I'd rather call Spidale or Anderson up than call up an un-juiced Giambi-the-lesser. We have plenty of OF'ers. We lack an effective first baseman.

munchman33
05-04-2005, 06:06 PM
While we're dreaming, I'd package Konerko, Dye, and prospects to Colorodo for Todd Helton. Not a significant payroll spike this year, and Colorodo would jump at the chance to lose the rest of his contract. This also gives Everett an outfield spot, and Frank the DH spot.

It also helps answer some offseason questions. Konerko's contract situation would be gone, and the added offense a Todd Helton gives makes it easier to say goodbye to Frank if need be.

Gym Shoe
05-04-2005, 07:28 PM
Hold on guys, please HOLD ON!

This is the very thing that is wrong with something like WSI. What's our record? What place are we in? WHY MAKE CHANGES?

For the love of God. I'm not saying you guys don't mean well, but the next thing you'll be saying here is "We need to be stronger up the middle"

And another move like trading for Charles Johnson will happen. Why mess up a bunch of guys that like each other and have more than enough talent to win?

Please, let's be reasonable. Cheers and keep rooting on those White Sox!

Bisco Stu
05-04-2005, 09:04 PM
For those who hate this thread, I apologize.

But it's all in good fun, like baseball is supposed to be anyway.

I think we can all admit the Sox aren't perfect, especially offensively, so this speculative thread is legitimate.

And why NOT think pennant?

The last time the Red Sawx won the WS, the Sox won the pennant the next year.

And the team whose record we just surpassed, the 1955 Dodgers, won the WS that year.

The omens are there, the stars are aligning in our favor, etc etc.

Pennant talk is legit, even on May 4. Especially with the Skankees and the Red Sawx looking quite beatable at this point.

White Sox Josh
05-04-2005, 09:20 PM
Preston Wilson. Not now. YESTERDAY. His trade value is diminished, KW should scoop him up.

Dye is ultimately a liability.

Moving on to the bully, I know some of you cynics will suggest the following should be in teal or some other 80's shade, but if the Skanks keep dropping outta contention...

KW should make a run at Mariano Rivera.

Your thoughts?That should be in either teal or deep pink.

A. Cavatica
05-04-2005, 09:21 PM
The last time the Red Sawx won the WS, the Sox won the pennant the next year.

We won the pennant in 2005? Cool!

gr8mexico
05-08-2005, 12:14 PM
The trade Kenny should really consider is trading for Aubrey Huff.Huff will give us another left handed bat we could us and he plays OF and 3rd base.Another power bat like that will help them out alot.

swanson24
05-08-2005, 02:13 PM
Agreed on Huff he is a good player who flies under the radar by playing for the Devil Rays Hmmm. If he flies under the radar then I'm sure Kenny will think of someway to get him over here. But seriously I would love to see him in a Sox uniform. It is not meant to be an insult toward any current players on the team but rather some assistance for the offense.

he_gone_89
05-09-2005, 02:29 PM
Jeremy Giambi could be an option for KW if he needs help in the outfield before the All-Star break. Giambi has experience and could fill the spot until a trade or another move was determined to be needed.

Strictly a stop gap move.

with this last wave of injuries to Ozuna and Gload,how come he's still in AAA?

balke
05-09-2005, 02:35 PM
Isn't Huff dirt cheap, and not in a contract year? I don't think he's an option. Now that Dye has icked up, and its apparent Konerko was just slumping a bit... I don't worry about trades much. It would just be nice if we happened into Wagner, but right now we will win without them. I think Kenny has to worry about playoff moves. It seems like we might be there.

maurice
05-09-2005, 03:08 PM
with this last wave of injuries to Ozuna and Gload,how come he's still in AAA?

Because Giambi brother - steroids = suck

TheOldRoman
05-09-2005, 03:09 PM
I've got it! We trade Joe Borchard and Willie Harris for Aubrey Huff. However, KW must stay strong, and demand that Tampa throws in Carl Crawford and Scott Kazmir. Talent like Joe Borchard doesn't come around every day.






Im sorry, I have to turn myself in.
:tealpolice:

MIgrenade
05-09-2005, 04:44 PM
I'd love to see Huff at 1B, but I don't see them benching Konerko. I also don't see them trading for an OF with a >1 year deal. They have plenty of those + Anderson on deck. The Sox bullpen is as deep as anybody's.

IMHO, you'll see no major activity until the trade deadline, when KW will take a serious look at the best available bats and starting pitchers.

I don't see KW going for starters only because I think we can find 3 good starters from this group and make a playoff rotation. However, I do see the need for a closer or a bat. BUT Jeremy Giambi is not the guy. That adds strikeouts and clogged base paths which Thomas and Konerko can clog on their own. There aren't many holes to fill on this team, if any. Closer is a spot I'd like to see filled. If they can get Wagner, I'm sorry, but you give up A prospects and maybe a major league guy. For KW it will come down to who he can re-sign. If he thinks he can keep Wagner then he makes the move to improve pitching for the next couple years.

he_gone_89
05-10-2005, 03:39 PM
Because Giambi brother - steroids = suck

so why is he even in the system?

mccoydp
05-10-2005, 04:13 PM
so why is he even in the system?

Someone will pick him up some day, make some Yankees references to his brother, and sell some caps...guess he might have some merchandising capability one day, but, then again, it didn't work for Ozzie Canseco.

maurice
05-10-2005, 04:42 PM
It's possible that KW signed Giambi as a somewhat "name" player to keep the folks at Charlotte happy. Notwithstanding the presence of the 2 top prospects in the Sox system and a handful of lesser lights, the Knights blow. They recently added AAAA guys such as Rosie Brown and Greg Norton to the roster in an effort to strengthen the team. In the unlikely event that any of these guys generate some trade interest, KW then can pull an Escobar and trade them for a prospect at virtually no cost to the Sox. Owens has been looking pretty damn good lately.

mccoydp
05-10-2005, 05:28 PM
You said what I meant to say about Giambi..."name" value is what I was looking for. Thanks!

gr8mexico
05-10-2005, 08:41 PM
The Devil Rays are looking to trade HUff especially if they can get starting pitching.I think Huff has 1 year left on his contract.Huff plays 3rd,1st and OF and the best part he bats left handed.Isn't Huff dirt cheap, and not in a contract year? I don't think he's an option. Now that Dye has icked up, and its apparent Konerko was just slumping a bit... I don't worry about trades much. It would just be nice if we happened into Wagner, but right now we will win without them. I think Kenny has to worry about playoff moves. It seems like we might be there.
AUBREY HUFF, 19

AGE: 28.

B/T: L/R. HT/WT: 6-4/231.

BORN/LIVES: Marion, Ohio/Tampa.

HOW ACQUIRED: Fifth-round pick in 1998 draft.

CONTRACT STATUS: $4.75-million in second year of three-year, $14.5-million deal.

PROJECTED ROLE: Starting rightfielder.

DID YOU KNOW?: Huff is one of six major-leaguers the past two seasons to average a .300 batting average with 30 home runs and 100 RBIs.

Frater Perdurabo
05-10-2005, 09:41 PM
:tomatoaward:


Sox need some bullpen help and they need Huff. Maybe Chris Singleton is available? :angry:

Mohoney
05-11-2005, 02:41 AM
If the Phillies are dead in the NL East at the deadline, I would LOVE Billy Wagner as long as the asking price doesn't include Brandon McCarthy.

Marte and Wagner would be lethal lefty bullpen depth.

maurice
05-11-2005, 06:28 PM
so why is he even in the system?

Updated Answer:
He's not. See the minor league forum for more info.

HawkISox
05-12-2005, 10:43 AM
He might come at a lesser price than Wagner.

I would under NO circumstances trade McCarthy. Maybe Sweeny or Anderson, but not both. Throw in Carl. I like him, but Frank is Frank.

I am still hoping Dye comes around.

DaleJRFan
05-12-2005, 11:08 AM
What about Jose Mesa?

WHY? What's wrong with Hermanson's 0.00 ERA and 6 saves in 6 opportunities?

sircaffey1
05-12-2005, 11:49 AM
WHY? What's wrong with Hermanson's 0.00 ERA and 6 saves in 6 opportunities?

Yeah if you are talking about acquiring Mesa, Hermanson is just as good. If we are to get a closer it should Wagner and nobody else.

Huff and Wagner are the names I want Kenny to go after. Those are our two needs and those are two tremendous players, that could put us over the top.

Polack
05-16-2005, 06:09 PM
I think we stand pat. Frank is starting a minor league rehab assignment without complaining. McCarthy and Borchard wait in the wings. Willie Harris and Pablo Ozuna seem able to fill in in the infield as needed, and the bullpen has been solid, but not perfect.

Let's not mess with success.

WhiteRob757
05-18-2005, 10:18 PM
I wouldn't mind keeping Everett but if i had to trade players i would say trade Carl for maybe another utility player and i would definitely trade El Dukie for another starter, yes he has a nice looking record now but later in the seasno he will be nothing and while he has this record and showing he can still pitch it can be good to trade him for someone better maybe a loaiza would be nice.

MIgrenade
05-19-2005, 01:25 AM
I wouldn't mind keeping Everett but if i had to trade players i would say trade Carl for maybe another utility player and i would definitely trade El Dukie for another starter, yes he has a nice looking record now but later in the seasno he will be nothing and while he has this record and showing he can still pitch it can be good to trade him for someone better maybe a loaiza would be nice.

I would watch it with the trade El Duque talk. First, I don't think anyone will take him because of his age. Second, he has a post season pedigree that no one on the Sox has. He has more experience than the rest of the team combined, and in the post seaon that matters. He might be the guy who wins a series for you.

Realist
05-19-2005, 08:24 AM
I've decided that I'm gonna save this thread to favorites and then read it in October ONLY if the Sox go manboobs-up. In the meantime, here's my contribution:

Paul Konerko for Derek Lee plus cash :redneck

<rim shot... drops the mic... waves.... walks off stage>

samram
05-19-2005, 08:25 AM
I would watch it with the trade El Duque talk. First, I don't think anyone will take him because of his age. Second, he has a post season pedigree that no one on the Sox has. He has more experience than the rest of the team combined, and in the post seaon that matters. He might be the guy who wins a series for you.

Yeah, they got El Duque to pitch in big games, not to use in a trade for Esteban Loaiza.:rolleyes:

samram
05-19-2005, 08:26 AM
I've decided that I'm gonna save this thread to favorites and then read it in October ONLY if the Sox go manboobs-up. In the meantime, here's my contribution:

Paul Konerko for Derek Lee plus cash :redneck

<rim shot... drops the mic... waves.... walks off stage>

Whoa, whoa, whoa. They've got to throw in Prior too.

Bisco Stu
05-26-2005, 10:21 PM
Soxperts: Any truth to the Eric Chavez trade rumors?