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Irishsox1
05-02-2005, 12:55 AM
Everyone knows the Cubs suck, but due to some bad decisions made years age, the two 5 wins and 0 loss pitchers in the MLB are both ex-Flubbies. Jon Garland was traded to the Sox for Matt Karchner in 1998 and Dontrelle Willis was traded by the Cubs to Florida as part of the great Antonio Alfonseca, Matt Clement trade in 2002. At the time, everyone, including ESPN said this was a total steal for the Cubs, but somehow the deal blew up in the Cubs face. Ha-Ha!

With Karrie Wood hurting his arm again and Prior getting lit up, I wonder how the Cubs feel about those trades now? Maybe they can bring Karchner back!

MUsoxfan
05-02-2005, 01:20 AM
For every Jon Garland or Dontrelle there's a Farnsworth and Estes. It works both ways for every team

Banix12
05-02-2005, 01:41 AM
Everyone knows the Cubs suck, but due to some bad decisions made years age, the two 5 wins and 0 loss pitchers in the MLB are both ex-Flubbies. Jon Garland was traded to the Sox for Matt Karchner in 1998 and Dontrelle Willis was traded by the Cubs to Florida as part of the great Antonio Alfonseca, Matt Clement trade in 2002. At the time, everyone, including ESPN said this was a total steal for the Cubs, but somehow the deal blew up in the Cubs face. Ha-Ha!

With Karrie Wood hurting his arm again and Prior getting lit up, I wonder how the Cubs feel about those trades now? Maybe they can bring Karchner back!

Hindsight is always 20/20.

To be fair to the cubs on this one, the Willis trade did look good at the time they made it and they certainly turned Clement around into a pretty good starter. Willis was not one of the cubs top prospects at the time as I recall, a good prospect but he was largely considered a project because of his strange delivery. The only major leaguer the marlins received in the trade was Julien Tavarez and the other two minor leaguers have yet to develop and aren't really prospects anymore. Kudos to the Marlins scouting staff on that one for finding Willis and taking him. But if in 2002 you got Alfonseca, who was a solid closer at the time, and Clement, a project with serious talent, for headcase Julien Tavarez and three minor leaguers, you would have been jumping for joy too.

Though yes the cubs fans would want that one back, I have a cub fan buddy who grumbles "The league will get to him soon. He's not for real." every time Willis pitches.

As for Garland, yeah, the sox robbed them on that one. Though I remember when we got Garland the knock on him was he lost his fastball in A ball and the cubs had soured on him. His ERA was 5+ in A ball that year. We also caught the cubs at a time in 98 when they were absolutely desparate for relief pitching.

They were both trades where the cubs took the short term gain over a possible long-term gain and they got burned. I also don't think either Willis or Garland would have gotten the chances they have gotten if they had stayed with the cubs, Willis would likely still be in the minors with cubs coaches trying to fix his throwing style and Garland would be in AAA because they would have never stuck with Jon as long as the sox have in the majors.

It also speaks to the depth of talent the cubs have had in the minor leagues the last few years.

SOX ADDICT '73
05-02-2005, 01:59 AM
Nice post, Banix. More objectivity than I'm used to seeing around here when it comes to the Cubs.

That said, I still find it hilarious that all these former Cubs farmhands are succeeding for other teams! It must really chafe their hides that the Sox are among them.

Out of curiosity, are there any former Sox prospects lighting it up for somebody else right now? (And the first person to say "Jeremy Reed", even if it's in teal, gets a blast from Daver's elephant gun.) :wink:

Banix12
05-02-2005, 02:23 AM
Nice post, Banix. More objectivity than I'm used to seeing around here when it comes to the Cubs.

That said, I still find it hilarious that all these former Cubs farmhands are succeeding for other teams! It must really chafe their hides that the Sox are among them.

Out of curiosity, are there any former Sox prospects lighting it up for somebody else right now? (And the first person to say "Jeremy Reed", even if it's in teal, gets a blast from Daver's elephant gun.) :wink:

thanks I try stay objective

The only guy I can think of who is doing well is Aaron Miles who is hitting .312 for the Rockies and hit over .290 last season. Sure it's colorado, but it still counts. Then you have a couple relievers like Brendan Donnelly and Gary Majewski who seem to be doing well. Jon Rauch just got called up so we'll see how he does.

Most of the other guys I can think of were at least solid major leaguers before they were sent packing, guys like Mike Cameron.