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wassagstdu
04-30-2005, 05:41 PM
Proposed by Selig:
50 games for first offense
100 games for second offense
Lifetime ban for third offense
Amphetamines included.

Seems about right to me. Bravo MLB! Can anyone think of a reason why the union should not go along? It certainly is in the interests of their membership. The current policy is like a 5-yard penalty or a couple of free-throws.

Rocklive99
04-30-2005, 05:48 PM
Eh, the problem I have right now is that everyone could be doing HGH and have no problems, but nobodies are being penalized for buying legal things over the counter.

The Racehorse
04-30-2005, 05:48 PM
Link (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050430&content_id=1033622&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb)

It'll be interesting to see the response from Donald Fehr... reeling in the guppies [minor leaguers & fringe MLB'ers] just ain't doin' it.

dickallen15
04-30-2005, 11:12 PM
Bud needs to suspend a significant player, then pop off. Suspending these no names does nothing for me. I'm not buying that they are the only ones with a positive.

Lip Man 1
04-30-2005, 11:33 PM
If they are going to ban players for 'greenies,' they'll be nobody left playing the games at all.

This is a PR move by Proud To Be Your Bud to try to keep Congress off his back and baseball's back. (Can you say anti-trust legislation? I knew you could :smile: )

Does the NFL suspend players for what is basically a half or three quarters of their season? Didn't think so...

Lip

FedEx227
05-01-2005, 12:08 AM
Wow this is eerie...I wrote a paper for school about 2 weeks ago about MLB needed a strong steroid policy, and those were my EXACT figures, 50 for 1st, 100 for 2nd, and lifetime for third..

BUD SELIG GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!!

mantis1212
05-01-2005, 12:11 AM
Eh, the problem I have right now is that everyone could be doing HGH and have no problems, but nobodies are being penalized for buying legal things over the counter.

EXACTLY what I was going to say.

50 games seems a little extreme if they aren't even testing for the right stuff. I personally believe Alex Sanchex when he said he took something over the counter. He was a sacrifical lamb if I've ever seen one.

mantis1212
05-01-2005, 12:12 AM
Wow this is eerie...I wrote a paper for school about 2 weeks ago about MLB needed a strong steroid policy, and those were my EXACT figures, 50 for 1st, 100 for 2nd, and lifetime for third..

BUD SELIG GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!!

Hey dude do us a favor and write a story about the Sox winning the series ok?

voodoochile
05-01-2005, 12:29 AM
If they are going to ban players for 'greenies,' they'll be nobody left playing the games at all.

This is a PR move by Proud To Be Your Bud to try to keep Congress off his back and baseball's back. (Can you say anti-trust legislation? I knew you could :smile: )

Does the NFL suspend players for what is basically a half or three quarters of their season? Didn't think so...

Lip

First offense is 4 regular season games, Lip. That's a quarter of a season.

Second offense if a year.

Third offense is life (reinstatement possible after a year).

mantis1212
05-01-2005, 12:35 AM
First offense is 4 regular season games, Lip. That's a quarter of a season.

Second offense if a year.

Third offense is life (reinstatement possible after a year).

Is that new? I don't remember Jim Miller being suspended for 4 games a couple years ago. Regardless, it seems the NFL isn't testing for the right stuff either from the soundbytes I've heard in the media recently.

munchman33
05-01-2005, 12:44 AM
Is that new? I don't remember Jim Miller being suspended for 4 games a couple years ago.

Miller most certainly was suspended four games. (http://www.cracksmoker.com/NFL/NFL%20MillerJ.htm)

mealfred13
05-01-2005, 01:21 AM
I like the idea behind it, but there's still the problem of over-the-counter supplements.

Before they can enforece things like this, MLB's gotta come up with some sort of allowed supplements list or way for the players to purchase over-the-counter supplements through an MLB-monitored channel. It could get really out of hand if people start getting suspended for using over-the-counter supplements that they thought were safe.

wassagstdu
05-01-2005, 09:35 AM
I like the idea behind it, but there's still the problem of over-the-counter supplements.

Before they can enforece things like this, MLB's gotta come up with some sort of allowed supplements list or way for the players to purchase over-the-counter supplements through an MLB-monitored channel. It could get really out of hand if people start getting suspended for using over-the-counter supplements that they thought were safe.

How about a registered letter to each player (or maybe his agent) listing banned substances -- in 5 or 6 languages -- regardless of whether they are available at the drugstore or not. DHEA is a steroid. There are probably "supplements" that don't list their contents. For those, a player could request a specific approval from MLB. I suppose that would lead to a privacy concern, so how about an independent panel of MDs?

The Racehorse
05-01-2005, 10:24 AM
I like the idea behind it, but there's still the problem of over-the-counter supplements.

Before they can enforece things like this, MLB's gotta come up with some sort of allowed supplements list or way for the players to purchase over-the-counter supplements through an MLB-monitored channel. It could get really out of hand if people start getting suspended for using over-the-counter supplements that they thought were safe.

I don't have a problem with over the counter supplements because they're available for public consumption. MLB has demonstated for years that they'll
never be out front of the FDA in terms of banning substances [FDA 'roid ban 1990 - MLB 'roid ban 2004].

Selig & Fehr need to just keep it simple. If it's illegal in the United States of America, then it should be illegal in MLB. Btw, it can't be argued that players employed by the Blue Jays fall outside of that scope since MLB is an American company. Of course, I'd like to see MLB be ahead of the curve in terms of sports medicine and banning performance enhancing drugs, but that'll never happen.

Players at all levels should be allowed to chug all the over the counter protein powders, amino acids, creatine, whatever it is because they're not drugs. Players can waste their money on that crap just as I did in my youth when I was into lifting weights and trying to get bigger and stronger [ala Muscle & Fitness - remember that mag?!].

If a pharmaceutical such as andro slips though and is available over the counter, then so be it until it becomes banned by the FDA. [Selig & Fehr] need to keep it simple stupid[s].

Fredsox
05-01-2005, 10:27 AM
I like the idea behind it, but there's still the problem of over-the-counter supplements.

Before they can enforece things like this, MLB's gotta come up with some sort of allowed supplements list or way for the players to purchase over-the-counter supplements through an MLB-monitored channel. It could get really out of hand if people start getting suspended for using over-the-counter supplements that they thought were safe.

How about if they get them through the team or report what they're taking to the team (the trainer I suppose). Example: I'm a player and I have a cold, so I want to take Sudafed. I tell the trainer what the situation and he gives it to me, or I buy it and report to the trainer via email or something so there is a record. They're not asking permission, they're reporting.

In the mean time MLB would publish not only a list of banned substances but a list of substances that may be permissible with approval of the team.

This sounds extreme but it appears to be an approach that addresses a player's need to take certain substances at times. There just needs to be a record of what they did and when they did it. Some might argue that this raises privacy concerns but I would suggest that if I had a chance to make $300k on the low-end and $25 million on the high-end, I'd provide daily samples with pleasure. To quite Sylvester Stallone (am I really doing that?) "if you want to dance you have to pay the band".

voodoochile
05-01-2005, 11:07 AM
Is that new? I don't remember Jim Miller being suspended for 4 games a couple years ago. Regardless, it seems the NFL isn't testing for the right stuff either from the soundbytes I've heard in the media recently.

Yes, he was and that was for taking an over the counter supplement which contained banned ingredients - or so Miller claimed.

He was booted for the final 3 games of the season and the opener the following year. This was right after he had those 3 record setting performances for a Bears QB.

Ol' No. 2
05-01-2005, 11:16 AM
Yes, he was and that was for taking an over the counter supplement which contained banned ingredients - or so Miller claimed.

He was booted for the final 3 games of the season and the opener the following year. This was right after he had those 3 record setting performances for a Bears QB.Lots of over the counter supplements contain banned substances. Andro was over the counter when McGwire was taking it. There's no way the league could keep track of every supplement and what's in it. The list of banned substances is available to all the players. It's their responsibility to ensure that whatever they're taking is legal. If in doubt, spit it out.

Increasing the penalties is fine, but I'd rather they concentrate on expanding the testing. There are still way too many substances that they don't test for: THG, HGH, and the rest of the alphabet, too. They manage to do it in international sports. If they just adopted their testing regimen, they'd be a lot better off.

Mickster
05-01-2005, 12:59 PM
Lots of over the counter supplements contain banned substances. Andro was over the counter when McGwire was taking it. There's no way the league could keep track of every supplement and what's in it. The list of banned substances is available to all the players. It's their responsibility to ensure that whatever they're taking is legal. If in doubt, spit it out.

Increasing the penalties is fine, but I'd rather they concentrate on expanding the testing. There are still way too many substances that they don't test for: THG, HGH, and the rest of the alphabet, too. They manage to do it in international sports. If they just adopted their testing regimen, they'd be a lot better off.

Completely agree. As long as they are testing by urine samples alone, this policy is a joke.

Baby Fisk
05-02-2005, 01:10 PM
Is there a timeline for when this would take effect if accepted?

Kuzman
05-02-2005, 01:29 PM
Dan Davis just reported on Sportscenter that Selig's new 50, 100, life policy is PERFECT! Go Big Frank!

Fenway
05-06-2005, 03:56 PM
MITCH ALBOM: Selig's proposal connects with me (http://www.freep.com/sports/albom/mitch3e_20050503.htm)
When Bud Selig was a kid growing up on the west side of Milwaukee, he didn't use drugs. He didn't know much about them. They were for the "bad" kids and he was a "good" kid. He didn't drink, he didn't take pills, and to this day, he says, he has never let a cigarette touch his lips.

daveeym
05-06-2005, 04:51 PM
I like the idea behind it, but there's still the problem of over-the-counter supplements.

Before they can enforece things like this, MLB's gotta come up with some sort of allowed supplements list or way for the players to purchase over-the-counter supplements through an MLB-monitored channel. It could get really out of hand if people start getting suspended for using over-the-counter supplements that they thought were safe. I'm sure it's already there, that's what the team trainers and doctors are for. Any guy getting dinged, even for over the counter, is going out on their own to GNC. Colleges supply supplements, creatine and/or lists (for programs that don't pay for supplements) I'm sure a baseball team spending millions on their players does the same.

And if they didn't it was because they knew enforcement was a sham.

samram
05-06-2005, 05:28 PM
Is there a timeline for when this would take effect if accepted?

I'm not sure one can have a timeline for the impossible to happen.