PDA

View Full Version : Are you ready to let Shin-Go?


WhiteSoxFan84
04-30-2005, 02:22 AM
This has been in my mind forever but last night just did it for me. I think the Sox should get rid of Shingo ASAP. That bullpen is amazing without him. Deal him or even drop him. Call up Jeff Bajenaru, Jon Adkins, Kevin Walker, Matt Smith, or sign somebody. Hermanson/Marte will split save opportunities or just hand the job to Hermies.

Shingo just does not have the stuff to get hitters out consistently. He can have a 1-2-3 inning once every 5 outtings, but is that reliable for a closer? I just don't believe in this guy anymore and think we're much better off without him. Yes he had a great year last year and yes he's only blown one save this year but 6 ERs and 4 HRs in 6 2/3 IP? That's garbage.

My message to KW; trade, demote, release, get rid of Shingo ASAP.

I don't think Shingo was fully responsible for Friday night's loss as our hitting didn't show up AGAIN, but he was just horrible in that 1 inning he pitched.

NSSoxFan
04-30-2005, 02:25 AM
I don't see how getting rid of one minor question mark and bringing in a big question mark is a good thing. :?:

DickAllen72
04-30-2005, 02:28 AM
Are you ready to let Shin-Go?


Hell-No!

WhiteSoxFan84
04-30-2005, 02:29 AM
I don't see how getting rid of one minor question mark and bringing in a big question mark is a good thing. :?:

who's the BIG question mark? the other guys actually have pitches that can get the job done. shingo has nothing. i-rod had 3 pitches that he could've SMOKED last night and i mean SMOKED. he just missed on 2 of them and the last one he just didn't expect.

how can you defend the job this guy is doing? i hate seeing this guy in games. contreras and hermanson pitch their asses off and then this guy comes in and in just one inning he completely craps up.

i hope KW is already on the phone looking to make a deal for some hitting. while he's doing that, deal this guy. why not to baltimore. they have tons of hitting and we can still sell Shingo's 2004 stats and hope someone still thinks he's that good.

mmmmmbeeer
04-30-2005, 02:56 AM
who's the BIG question mark? the other guys actually have pitches that can get the job done. shingo has nothing. i-rod had 3 pitches that he could've SMOKED last night and i mean SMOKED. he just missed on 2 of them and the last one he just didn't expect.

how can you defend the job this guy is doing? i hate seeing this guy in games. contreras and hermanson pitch their asses off and then this guy comes in and in just one inning he completely craps up.

i hope KW is already on the phone looking to make a deal for some hitting. while he's doing that, deal this guy. why not to baltimore. they have tons of hitting and we can still sell Shingo's 2004 stats and hope someone still thinks he's that good.

wait until it gets warm outside. he'll be fine.

IowaSox1971
04-30-2005, 02:59 AM
Shingo had kind of a rough April last year, too. And keep in mind he is not the only reason we lost tonight. Vizcaino gave up the go-ahead run in the seventh, and numerous people, including Timo, failed to come through with guys on base. The loss was a team effort.

SoxxoS
04-30-2005, 02:59 AM
wait until it gets warm outside. he'll be fine.

That's a new one.

Sleep520
04-30-2005, 03:22 AM
That's a new one.

It gets warm every summer. :?:

VivaOzzie
04-30-2005, 05:41 AM
who's the BIG question mark? the other guys actually have pitches that can get the job done. shingo has nothing. i-rod had 3 pitches that he could've SMOKED last night and i mean SMOKED. he just missed on 2 of them and the last one he just didn't expect.

how can you defend the job this guy is doing? i hate seeing this guy in games. contreras and hermanson pitch their asses off and then this guy comes in and in just one inning he completely craps up.

i hope KW is already on the phone looking to make a deal for some hitting. while he's doing that, deal this guy. why not to baltimore. they have tons of hitting and we can still sell Shingo's 2004 stats and hope someone still thinks he's that good.

Shingo has now lost his FIRST game of the season and we want to give up on him. First of all, the strike zone was tight as hell tonight, the whole game long. As we all know, when Shingo gets behind in the count, he is forced to throw his fastball over the plate for strikes. Not good. So he gave up a leadoff walk bc his pitches were barely missing, in other games they would've been strikes (but I do give the ump credit, he was consistent). Then a sacrifice to move the runner over.

Now Nook Logan comes up, a mediocre hitter at best. These are the guys, IMO, that Shingo is most vulnerable to. He makes good hitters (like Ivan Rodriguez) look bad and off-balance. So with a RISP Shingo gives up ONE HIT. To somebody who isn't a great hitter but on a bit of a hot streak. Then strikes out the next 2 guys and makes them look like fools. And now we want to trade the guy. Lets get serious.

I love Hermanson as a SOLID setup guy, and Shingo as a closer. This crap happens once in a great while, but overall, this guy is money. Let him do his thing. Even though he gave up the winning run, I liked watching him make Rodriguez (fake-pudge) look like a fool at the plate. Please stop this bs.

EDIT: knowing the strike zone was ridiculously tight, someone besides Shingo (ie Politte) shouldve been brought in. not Shingo's fault, its tough for him to work with such a tight strike zone with his pitches.

Fredsox
04-30-2005, 07:31 AM
I'm not impressed with his performance either but that isn't the root cause of our loss last night. We left an awful lot of people on base last night who were in scoring position. It looks like our problems are a combination of injuries and poor situational hitting by the 3-4-5 hitters.

Dumping Shingo would not solve this problem. That may or may not happen at a later date based upon his performance but a pitching staff that only gives up 3 runs is pretty good in my book.

Just my $.02.

psyclonis
04-30-2005, 08:56 AM
His value is still high in the NL. Our bullpen is deep enough to let him go.

oldcomiskey
04-30-2005, 09:05 AM
youre kidding, right-----we have a tight bullpen so lets leave it that way

C-Dawg
04-30-2005, 09:14 AM
I'm not impressed with his performance either but that isn't the root cause of our loss last night. We left an awful lot of people on base last night who were in scoring position. It looks like our problems are a combination of injuries and poor situational hitting by the 3-4-5 hitters.



Yes, between the last game in Oakland and the first Detroit game we could have filled the upper deck with the guys we left on base. A simple base hit at the right time would have made all the difference in this game.

Anyway, wasn't Shingo a huge question mark last year to start the season? He really didn't seem to catch fire until May or so; maybe there really is something to that warm-weather theory.

SSN721
04-30-2005, 09:19 AM
Wow, there is a whole lot of blame to be placed for last nights abysmal game dont you think? I wasnt happy with Shingos performance, I think I would have put Politte in at that point. But those guys you mentioned bringing up, come on, I dont see how you can think any of those pitchers are as capable as being as lights out as Shingo is when he is on. That just sounds like a knee jerk reaction to me.

CallMeNuts
04-30-2005, 10:53 AM
I'm not ready to give up on Shingo yet, but here is a radical idea to shore up the bullpen. Send down Cotts. Bring up BMac and put him in the rotation. Move Contreras to the pen. Contreras has the stuff to be an awesome closer. Send him in with the instructions to go after hitters with the 96-mph heater and to mix in a sinker here or there. Lights out.

kevingrt
04-30-2005, 11:45 AM
No way am I ready to let Shingo go. Everyone can tell his main problem so far this year after the Cleveland game has been a loss of confidence. Look at how he started off the 11th inning, he threw three straight off-speed pitches for balls, then he couldn't even get a fastball over for a strike. But then look at his sequence versus Pudge. He goes fastball first pitch and gets it over for a strike. That set the rest of the AB up perfectly. He got Pudge swinging way early on a frisbee and then got him on a fastball.

The main thing for Shingo is confidence and first pitch strike. If he can get his first pitch over then the hitters cannot neccasarily look for the fastball all the way. He also needs confidence. He needs confidence that he can blow his fastball by someone and get his curve and frisbee over for strikes.

Now that the hitters have adjusted to Shingo, Shingo must adjust to the hitters. And even though it may of taken him a month by early May he will be back to the old Shingo. And I think he will regain his closer role sometime this season.

Flames24Rulz
04-30-2005, 12:06 PM
Contreras as the closer would not work at all...he issues too many walks to be a closer. Stick with Shingo...if he's still doing poorly in late June-early July, then something could be wrong. But im not giving up on him yet.

balke
04-30-2005, 12:57 PM
I like Shingo in certain situations, and he makes our team deep.

He can pop people up, so a deep park fits his talent well. And sometimes, he's downright dominating. He still has a place here, its just not "Shingotime" anymore. I'm ready to let the gong go. Its like listening to JOSE JOSE JOSE JOSE JOSE! when the Stache sucks.

whitesoxwilkes
04-30-2005, 01:00 PM
I'm not ready to give up on Shingo yet, but here is a radical idea to shore up the bullpen. Send down Cotts. Bring up BMac and put him in the rotation. Move Contreras to the pen. Contreras has the stuff to be an awesome closer. Send him in with the instructions to go after hitters with the 96-mph heater and to mix in a sinker here or there. Lights out.

Not gonna call you nuts, because I agree with you.

PAPChiSox729
04-30-2005, 02:01 PM
I'm not ready to give up on Shingo yet, but here is a radical idea to shore up the bullpen. Send down Cotts. Bring up BMac and put him in the rotation. Move Contreras to the pen. Contreras has the stuff to be an awesome closer. Send him in with the instructions to go after hitters with the 96-mph heater and to mix in a sinker here or there. Lights out.

Last year, Bruce Levine suggest the White Sox would do something like that. I just don't think Contreras would have the mental makeup to close. Everytime a runner gets on, he becomes very timid, tries to be careful, and ends up walking guys in the end. I don't want that in a reliever, especially one that has to hold a slim lead. If Contreras ever finds that "hit it if you can" attitude in him, then he would be an awesome closer. But for now, leave him in the rotation.

balke
04-30-2005, 02:08 PM
I honestly don't know what the best place for B-Mac would be if we used him, I'm just glad our pitching staff is good enough that we don't need him.

Contreras has been nothing short of great. Sure, he walks a lot and throws a lot of pitches, but he has 3 no decision quality starts I believe... all 4 were well pitched no decisions. I want him in my rotation, and trust the Sox are doing the best thing for B-mac. Contreras was always supposed to be this good, we gotta let him ride for the good of the season.

hawkjt
04-30-2005, 02:21 PM
Shingo is currently like 3rd in baseball in fireman points. Every closer out there has had problems except The guy in Texas. Nathan blew a save against the lowly Royals the other nite. It happens. I did not like putting him in with a tie game but Oz had already run thru the whole bullpen at that point. Oz needs to learn how to save bullpen guys for extra inning games.

I have not heard Hawk utter Ozzieball for awhile. Cuz he aint doing it.

mdep524
04-30-2005, 02:44 PM
Last year, Bruce Levine suggest the White Sox would do something like that. I just don't think Contreras would have the mental makeup to close. Everytime a runner gets on, he becomes very timid, tries to be careful, and ends up walking guys in the end. I don't want that in a reliever, especially one that has to hold a slim lead. If Contreras ever finds that "hit it if you can" attitude in him, then he would be an awesome closer. But for now, leave him in the rotation. I agree here. The idea of Contreras as a closer is intriguing, but he just doesn't have the mentality or confidence for it.

As for Shingo, I still have confidence in him.

Fake Chet Lemon
04-30-2005, 03:21 PM
Too early to dump Shingo. Can we at least get out of April? We gave Billy Koch a longer shot last year, and he REALLY sucked.

SluggersAway
04-30-2005, 03:39 PM
I'm ready to let Shingo go the distance. He was not the problem last night. And I will definitely call 'callmenuts' nuts. Contreras doesn't deserve to be demoted at this point. Nor does Cotts. And BMac doesn't need to be called up. Our pitchers are doing one helluva job and I hope they keep it up. If the middle of our lineup can get out of their slump, we'll go the distance for sure. Last night, like the two games before, was a problem of execution.

I just wish Dye had the opportunity to win it rather than Timo last night, I think that was Ozzie's worst decision of the night.

ExpoPuddingHead
04-30-2005, 04:13 PM
Shingo has been sucking so far this season for one simple reason, velocity. Last year when shingo was a great closer for us his fastball velocity was at the upper 80's low 90's. Right now his velocity is at about 85 mph. The hitters are just sitting on his fastball waiting for him to throw it and then they just smack it out of the park. THe good thing is that early last year his velocity was around 85 but went up as the season went on so when we let :angry:Koch:angry: go Shingo had enough velocity to be our closer.





Go 'XPOS BITCHES

VivaOzzie
04-30-2005, 04:28 PM
Shingo has been sucking so far this season for one simple reason, velocity. Last year when shingo was a great closer for us his fastball velocity was at the upper 80's low 90's. Right now his velocity is at about 85 mph. The hitters are just sitting on his fastball waiting for him to throw it and then they just smack it out of the park. THe good thing is that early last year his velocity was around 85 but went up as the season went on so when we let :angry:Koch:angry: go Shingo had enough velocity to be our closer.





Go 'XPOS BITCHES

His problem is location, not velocity. His changing velocity is why he is good. He cant get behind in the count, this is when hitters sit on his fastball, because he loses the deception factor. When he had Ivan Rodriguez 0-2 (or 1-2), he froze him with a well-located fastball on the outside corner. Rodriguez is a great hitter, but he set him up with a well-located 65 mph pitch, and Rodriguez had no idea what was coming the next pitch.

BTW, who are the Expos?

Iron Dragon
04-30-2005, 07:00 PM
I wonder if Ozzie putting in Shingo last night in a tie game for 1 full inning was an "Are you going to be my closer?" test. If so, I think he failed. :(:

StockdaleForVeep
04-30-2005, 07:08 PM
This has been in my mind forever but last night just did it for me. I think the Sox should get rid of Shingo ASAP. That bullpen is amazing without him. Deal him or even drop him. Call up Jeff Bajenaru, Jon Adkins, Kevin Walker, Matt Smith, or sign somebody. Hermanson/Marte will split save opportunities or just hand the job to Hermies.

Shingo just does not have the stuff to get hitters out consistently. He can have a 1-2-3 inning once every 5 outtings, but is that reliable for a closer? I just don't believe in this guy anymore and think we're much better off without him. Yes he had a great year last year and yes he's only blown one save this year but 6 ERs and 4 HRs in 6 2/3 IP? That's garbage.

My message to KW; trade, demote, release, get rid of Shingo ASAP.

I don't think Shingo was fully responsible for Friday night's loss as our hitting didn't show up AGAIN, but he was just horrible in that 1 inning he pitched.

Totally, also, we should totally demote\trade konerko, i mean comeon, 229 avg!? Cant score with bases loaded!!?!? GIVE HIM THE.....
http://www.owned.com/Owned_Pictures/facehitboxingowned.jpg

WhiteSoxFan84
05-01-2005, 01:33 AM
I'm not ready to give up on Shingo yet, but here is a radical idea to shore up the bullpen. Send down Cotts. Bring up BMac and put him in the rotation. Move Contreras to the pen. Contreras has the stuff to be an awesome closer. Send him in with the instructions to go after hitters with the 96-mph heater and to mix in a sinker here or there. Lights out.

i will choose to call you nuts. why?? contreras is finally red-hot and you want to make him a closer? if B-Mac was a sure thing and (more importantly) if Contreras was struggling, I'm all for the experiment.

I'm amazed so many of you still believe Shingo has the make-up of a reliable ML closer. I'm just happy Ozzie is our manager and not Dusty Baker because he would continue throwing the guy out there. I just am not confident in this guy at all. hey, it's just my opinion. doesn't mean KW will get rid of him.

just to add on, who got the save Saturday night? New White Sox closer; DUSTIN HERMANSON! My guy!

StockdaleForVeep
05-01-2005, 04:50 AM
i will choose to call you nuts. why?? contreras is finally red-hot and you want to make him a closer? if B-Mac was a sure thing and (more importantly) if Contreras was struggling, I'm all for the experiment.

I'm amazed so many of you still believe Shingo has the make-up of a reliable ML closer. I'm just happy Ozzie is our manager and not Dusty Baker because he would continue throwing the guy out there. I just am not confident in this guy at all. hey, it's just my opinion. doesn't mean KW will get rid of him.

just to add on, who got the save Saturday night? New White Sox closer; DUSTIN HERMANSON! My guy!

And who would u have set up hermanson? Only reason he saved todays game is cuz shingo had the day off, same reason why politte had a rare apperance cuz the pen got alot of work in yesterday.

If your so faithless in shingo, u want him to be a setup guy?

Unregistered
05-01-2005, 05:36 AM
Only reason he saved todays game is cuz shingo had the day off, same reason why politte had a rare apperance cuz the pen got alot of work in yesterday.
According to the Tribune, Ozzie had the same feeling about Shingo that everyone else who was paying attention had:

And, at the end, Hermanson closed instead of Shingo Takatsu. "I didn't think Takatsu threw the ball well [Friday]," Guillen said. "I had a gut feeling Hermanson would do a better job."

White Sox Josh
05-01-2005, 12:18 PM
The person who started this thread forgot to use :tealpolice:

White Sox Josh
05-01-2005, 12:27 PM
:threadsucks

slavko
05-01-2005, 12:32 PM
When he retired 28(?) in a row last season, Singo had pinpoint control. He lost it last August and hasn't got it back yet. With his stuff, he needs it to be a successful closer.

WhiteSoxFan84
05-01-2005, 01:40 PM
And who would u have set up hermanson? Only reason he saved todays game is cuz shingo had the day off, same reason why politte had a rare apperance cuz the pen got alot of work in yesterday.

If your so faithless in shingo, u want him to be a setup guy?

Absolutely NOT. Viz gets the 7th inning. Marte/Politte split up the 8th. Hermies gets the 9th. Shingo can do pretty much what he's doing now, mop-up work.

Now if this is true about his just LOSING his stuff, when he finds it, I'd like to see Ozzie use him as a setup guy or even throw him out there to get the save if the lead is 3 runs. But in a 1 run game and even a 2 run game, I think Hermanson is the man for the job in the 9th. Once again, just my opinion and I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks this guy, currently, isn't our best option at closer.

And WhiteSoxJosh, you're new here so I won't reply the way I wanted to reply. Welcome aboard kid.

mealfred13
05-01-2005, 01:50 PM
:threadblows:

This is gonna be my modus operandi from now on, whenever another "So-and-so Sucks" thread starts. Gee, since Shingo is having problems closing, let's just trade him. Who needs a good arm for setup or relief?

Damn people, save these threads for June at least....

StockdaleForVeep
05-01-2005, 04:57 PM
:threadblows:

This is gonna be my modus operandi from now on, whenever another "So-and-so Sucks" thread starts. Gee, since Shingo is having problems closing, let's just trade him. Who needs a good arm for setup or relief?

Damn people, save these threads for June at least....


Heh foulke had control problems with us, good we traded him eh? LOL

mealfred13
05-01-2005, 05:02 PM
Heh foulke had control problems with us, good we traded him eh? LOL

Haha, I'd tend to agree with teal, but he's KILLING my fantasy team right now....lol.

r0wdyxc
05-02-2005, 02:54 AM
...juuuuuust a question, but why are people all up in arms about shingo's performance this season? When I look at his statistics, I only see 1 L.

Also, if everyone's so quick to judge about his inflated ERA, are you guys rallying to trade Konerko for his .209 batting average too?

It's May 2nd, hold off on the posts about trades if the team heads south. Don't ya think it's a bit early?

Gym Shoe
05-02-2005, 10:14 AM
Rowdy, welcome to WSI where people press for the most insane of reasons ...

I don't think Dustin Hermanson ever had as good a season as Shingo did last year, and we're ready to oust Shingo in a month. That's reasonable.

Frater Perdurabo
05-02-2005, 10:57 AM
I think at this point Shingo may be best suited to be a "situational righty" to get back his confidence. Then, he'll be ready to close during the interleague games against teams that generally have not seen him before (but whose hitters do know Hermanson).

ondafarm
05-02-2005, 11:08 AM
wait until it gets warm outside. he'll be fine.

Ditto.

wdelaney72
05-02-2005, 11:30 AM
Yes, he has struggled, and I agree with using Hermanson as the closer, but what would we do if Hermanson got injured. You don't trade away depth for the sake of trading someone away. Shingo stays. His control will improve and he will serve as a valuable piece of our bullpen.

PatK
05-02-2005, 01:06 PM
This has to be a trolling thread, as evidenced by the idea of bringing in Bajenaru and Adkins to replace Shingo. Whatever you are smoking, give me some.

Shingo is a slow starter, a lot of Japanese players are. He started slow last year remember? In training camp, they thought he was a joke.

jmoney
05-02-2005, 01:18 PM
what are we talkin about here? don't the sox have the best record at the moment? no need to mess with this, be patient. it's only may still have a ton of season left, shingo will be fine.