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View Full Version : *official* Sox vs Tigers 04-29-05 Postgame thread


MRKARNO
04-30-2005, 12:17 AM
Rant 'n Rave

Cowhead418
04-30-2005, 12:18 AM
Rant 'n Rave
Before I do that since when did we play the Twins?:?:

Edit: Ok nevermind.

SoxFan48
04-30-2005, 12:18 AM
Rant 'n Rave

What was it--16 LOB?

itsnotrequired
04-30-2005, 12:18 AM
35 left on base in three games. Nice...:whiner:

mealfred13
04-30-2005, 12:18 AM
This game should have been won in the 9th. Ridiculous. Bases loaded with no outs and all we can muster is 1 run. Gimme a break. Horrible game.

The only plus was Contreras' pitching which was great.

Did anyone else get the feeling the game was over as soon as Shingo was brought in, or was it just me?

halfpricemonday
04-30-2005, 12:19 AM
If that was "smart ball", can I have "stupid ball" back?

Charno
04-30-2005, 12:19 AM
What was it--16 LOB?
Yes. This is pure corpseball.

A.T. Money
04-30-2005, 12:19 AM
We can't hit.

Our "closer" isn't dependable...every outing makes me nervous.

We were punished by NOOK Logan.....depressing.

balke
04-30-2005, 12:19 AM
OBP!

Cowhead418
04-30-2005, 12:19 AM
Seeing our hitters today made me want to go out there myself and try and get a hit wiht RISP. I suck at baseball but probably could have done better. I was scared we would go on a large losing streak. End this thing now!

ChiSox7
04-30-2005, 12:19 AM
Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

From 5 games up to 1.5 games up in just over 4 days. That has to be some kind of record.

Nevermind, I don't want to start any arguing. The "experts" are looking more and more like just that everyday the offense continues to suck. 4 runs or less in 8 of 13 days. It just so happened that we were playing crappy teams and the breaks went our way.

WagMan
04-30-2005, 12:20 AM
3 Times the bases were loaded

1st attempt: walked in a run
2nd attempt: nothin
3rd attemtp (when it mattered most): 1 run on sac fly

We have got to be the worst hitting team with RISP:angry:

JUribe1989
04-30-2005, 12:20 AM
Shingo has to be done. Make Politte part of the closer by committee and forget Shingo. We knew that streak was too good to be true.

DickAllen72
04-30-2005, 12:20 AM
Same old Sox, same old ****.

SOX ADDICT '73
04-30-2005, 12:20 AM
It's going to require another winning streak of at least eight games to help me forget about this week. :whiner:

PAPChiSox729
04-30-2005, 12:20 AM
From an 8 game winning streak to an unbelievably brutal 3 game losing streak. All I have to say is things went downhill fast. I'm still optimistic. Wait until everyone gets healthy. This team has its best baseball ahead of them.

MRKARNO
04-30-2005, 12:20 AM
-It's not fun to lose games like that but the offense does seem to be coming around, regardless of the fact that we stranded so many.

-Hermanson is back and still doing well.

-Timo sucks and needs to be cut. If he can't execute in those situations, he has no use on this ballclub.

-The Sox wont lose a lot if they play like this. The streak of good luck has just been followed with some bad.

-Even though the Sox did lose 3.5 games on the Twins in four days, I wouldnt fret too much. They have been sorta lucky with their RISP hitting and even if they do catch us, I think the Central is primed to take the Wild Card this year. The Twins and Sox look like the best teams in the AL this year.

SoxFan48
04-30-2005, 12:20 AM
Producing 1 and 2 runs a game as we did in the last two games and 4 others in our first 23 is not a formula for winning baseball.

CubsfansareDRUNK
04-30-2005, 12:21 AM
there goes another sweep. another day of sox lose scrubs win. i cant take this anymore

OKCidiot
04-30-2005, 12:21 AM
Did anyone else get the feeling the game was over as soon as Shingo was brought in, or was it just me?

BAD SHINGO in the house tonight!!!

santo=dorf
04-30-2005, 12:21 AM
The statheads who were :whiner: during our win streak about our low walk total should be thrilled during this 3 game losing streak. :mad:

mealfred13
04-30-2005, 12:21 AM
3 Times the bases were loaded

1st attempt: walked in a run
2nd attempt: nothin
3rd attemtp (when it mattered most): 1 run on sac fly

We have got to be the worst hitting team with RISP:angry:

And the third was with NO OUTS.... Paulie is wortheless the way he's hitting, and that's the first time I think I've seen Timo unable to hit a fly ball with one out for the win.

I would have thrown Uribe out there. At least he can hit a fly ball.....sonofa.

Cowhead418
04-30-2005, 12:21 AM
I thought that the season was over if we couldn't score a run with Kyle freakin Farnsworth pitching. I'm not sure where I stand now. Anyone else think we could hit better than them?

SoxFan48
04-30-2005, 12:22 AM
-It's not fun to lose games like that but the offense does seem to be coming around, regardless of the fact that we stranded so many.


-Timo sucks and needs to be cut. If he can't execute in those situations, he has no use on this ballclub.



...showing Timo with a .19something BA as a pinch hitter.

PAPChiSox729
04-30-2005, 12:22 AM
It's going to require another winning streak of at least eight games to help me forget about this week. :whiner:

I don't know. I think I can shrug this one off eventually. But the Cubs series from last year still haunts me.

WagMan
04-30-2005, 12:22 AM
Hey, if nothing else, we got JG going on Sunday to stop the bleeding

itsnotrequired
04-30-2005, 12:23 AM
Eleven walks, leadoff man got on base eight times, bases loaded three times and all they can get is 2 runs.

Contreras still without a decision...

ChiSox7
04-30-2005, 12:23 AM
-It's not fun to lose games like that but the offense does seem to be coming around, regardless of the fact that we stranded so many.

-Hermanson is back and still doing well.

-Timo sucks and needs to be cut. If he can't execute in those situations, he has no use on this ballclub.

-The Sox wont lose a lot if they play like this. The streak of good luck has just been followed with some bad.

-Even though the Sox did lose 3.5 games on the Twins in four days, I wouldnt fret too much. They have been sorta lucky with their RISP hitting and even if they do catch us, I think the Central is primed to take the Wild Card this year. The Twins and Sox look like the best teams in the AL this year.

They've been sorta lucky for 3 years. We tried to emulate them and it doesn't look very good at all so far.

MRKARNO
04-30-2005, 12:23 AM
The pitching has still been awesome and the offense does seem to be coming around. 3 game losing streaks suck and are demoralizing, but methinks in the long term, the Sox might be doing themselves some good by just getting into a pattern of finding ways to get on base.

SOX ADDICT '73
04-30-2005, 12:24 AM
If that was "smart ball", can I have "stupid ball" back?
Post Of The Week! Thanks, halfpricemonday, for bringing some brief joy to my otherwise depressing (currently) existence.

shoota
04-30-2005, 12:24 AM
Bad night for the offense. As much as Contreras frustrated me with his 113 pitches (61 strikes) over 6 innings, he only gave up one run and should have gotten the win.

I'm not putting this loss on Shingo, but he is showing me something tonight. Granted, he hasn't pitched in like 5 days, but I am slowly losing confidence in him.

Iguchi has been showing me something too. He's becoming one of my favorite Sox players. Everett too.

I truly feel sorry for all the Sox fans who had to sit through this over four hour, 40 degree temperature, extra-inning loss.

15 men LOB = bad.

balke
04-30-2005, 12:24 AM
Hey, if nothing else, we got JG going on Sunday to stop the bleeding

Cool, 9 inning shutout for both teams. Shingo in to blow it.

Cowhead418
04-30-2005, 12:25 AM
Eleven walks, leadoff man got on base eight times, bases loaded three times and all they can get is 2 runs.

Contreras still without a decision...
Don't forget the two times we had a runner on 3rd with 1 out and failed to score BOTH times. One of those times KYLE FARNSWORTH:angry: was pitching. If we can't score off of him in that situation, what does that say about this team?

MRKARNO
04-30-2005, 12:25 AM
They've been sorta lucky for 3 years. We tried to emulate them and it doesn't look very good at all so far.

They're different teams and I dont think that we really did try to emulate them that much. One thing they have that we dont is an amazing farm system. One thing that we have that they dont is a 75 million dollar payroll and an owner who's willing to add 5 million in salary or more in the middle of the season if things arent going to plan and there's still hope.

ChiSox7
04-30-2005, 12:25 AM
The pitching has still been awesome and the offense does seem to be coming around. 3 game losing streaks suck and are demoralizing, but methinks in the long term, the Sox might be doing themselves some good by just getting into a pattern of finding ways to get on base.

What offense are you watching that is coming around???????????? We have scored 3 runs in our last 24 innings.

We have scored 4 or less runs in 8 of our last 13 games. We won most of those because the ball bounced our way and our pitching was awesome.

CHISOXFAN13
04-30-2005, 12:25 AM
They've been sorta lucky for 3 years. We tried to emulate them and it doesn't look very good at all so far.


Who's in first place? :dtroll:

Tragg
04-30-2005, 12:25 AM
-Timo sucks and needs to be cut. If he can't execute in those situations, he has no use on this ballclub.

Thank you.

Our pitching will be good all year. Thus, I think we'll be in it all year. We need some bench bats, for sure, but we'll get them. Right now, I'd follow Karno's advice and call somebody up if that's feasible. If it doesn't work out, find something in July.

DickAllen72
04-30-2005, 12:26 AM
If that was "smart ball", can I have "stupid ball" back?

That was "stupid ball" -- the same old stupid ball we played for the past three years, leaving the bases loaded and leaving the leadoff hitter on base numerous times. Looks like Konerko is reverting back to 2003 form. Crede looked like his old self tonight as well. The only middle of the lineup hitter who is producing is Carl Everett.

ChiSox7
04-30-2005, 12:27 AM
Who's in first place? :dtroll:
And first place means what right now? All I'm saying is that if the offense plays the way it has so far this year, we're in big trouble, as evidenced by the past three games.

The Racehorse
04-30-2005, 12:27 AM
Just got in from the Nats game... how did Dye do tonight?

MRKARNO
04-30-2005, 12:27 AM
What offense are you watching that is coming around???????????? We have scored 3 runs in our last 24 innings.

We have scored 4 or less runs in 8 of our last 13 games. We won most of those because the ball bounced our way and our pitching was awesome.

Few have crossed the plate, but the runs will come if you keep getting guys on base like we did today. It was just that we've run into an unlucky streak and we need to make sure that we go out tomorrow and win the next one. If the Sox stay patient with staying patient, the runs will certainly come.

dcb33
04-30-2005, 12:28 AM
Is anyone else sick of watching our hitters slam their bats down with frustration whenever they pop the ball up? Win or lose, I hate seeing that.

kobo
04-30-2005, 12:28 AM
Instead of focusing on Shingo, let's look at the offense. If the offense comes through we aren't even talking about Shingo. Absolutley horrible again tonight. This is not good, our 3-6 guys are doing absolutley nothing at the plate. We may have great pitching, and I will go that far and say our pitching is great, but with an anemic offense we are not going to be winning these close games. We went 2-18 in the 3-6 spot tonight, and I think I heard Hawk say our 3-6 guys were 4-37 in the 3 games against the Royals. Not going to win games if these guys don't start to hit.

ChiSox7
04-30-2005, 12:29 AM
Few have crossed the plate, but the runs will come if you keep getting guys on base like we did today. It was just that we've run into an unlucky streak and we need to make sure that we go out tomorrow and win the next one. If the Sox stay patient with staying patient, the runs will certainly come.

I'm not so sure. I just don't think we have a lot of hitters that will be particularly great clutch hitters. Certainly doesn't mean I'll be right and you'll be wrong. Just my humble opinion.

popilius
04-30-2005, 12:29 AM
This game should have been won in the 9th. Ridiculous. Bases loaded with no outs and all we can muster is 1 run. Gimme a break. Horrible game.

The only plus was Contreras' pitching which was great.

Did anyone else get the feeling the game was over as soon as Shingo was brought in, or was it just me?

I agree with everything you said, and I almost punched the wall in at my house.

Navaro's Talent
04-30-2005, 12:29 AM
Bad outing for Shingo, but I blame the hitting for this loss. This team can't leave that many runners in scoring position. It's just terrible to watch. Konerko just looks lost each time he comes up to the plate right now. The same can be said for many of the other hitter. Oustide of Iguchi and Pierzynski, no one is hitting well.

Great outing by Contreras, though. It's too bad he doesn't have a win yet, but it will happen sooner or later.

Cowhead418
04-30-2005, 12:29 AM
Is anyone else sick of watching our hitters slam their bats down with frustration whenever they pop the ball up? Win or lose, I hate seeing that.
Yeah I hate that too. Konerko does it every time and this season he has done it like 1,000 times already. Not to mention he has struck out 5,663 times.

Rudy Law
04-30-2005, 12:30 AM
This game should have been won in the 9th. Ridiculous. Bases loaded with no outs and all we can muster is 1 run. Gimme a break. Horrible game.

The only plus was Contreras' pitching which was great.

Did anyone else get the feeling the game was over as soon as Shingo was brought in, or was it just me?

I knew it was over then also....This was the worst game I have seen them play in awhile.....If I may rant a few seconds

1. How many pitches are we going to take over the heart of the plate for strikes?
2. What is up with Konerko? Horrible ...Nothing like a good pop up to the 2nd basemen from your #4 hitter to start the bottom of the 11th
3. Shingo Blows...Period..
4. Its good to see we can once again rely on Joe Crede to gives a good pop up on the infield...I was a little worried there Joe...You had me thinking you might actually be becoming a big league hitter...Whew glad that was cleared up
5. Also nice to see us load the bases 3 times and get a grand total of 2 runs out of it.(They should have just have ended it in the 9th instead of giving us false hope)
6. I knew they weren't going to win after they didn't win it in the 9th.

We complain about the lack of press they get nationally and in Chicago.....But as soon as anyone starts talking about them they just curl up and go into a shell......They just don't do well when they have the spotlight on them....

NSSoxFan
04-30-2005, 12:31 AM
Tough game to lose considering we had them on the ropes in the ninth.

Konerko, Dye, and Rowand have to start hitting. Shingo has to throw strikes. And most of all we need to actually play "smallball". Bases loaded with NO outs in the ninth should have guaranteed a victory tonight.

Well, you gotta put these games behind you and move on.

On the plus side, Iguchi looks great and our pitching continues to impress.

ChiSox7
04-30-2005, 12:31 AM
Only 3 of our regulars are hitting above .270 with RISP. Only 4 of our hitters are hitting above .230 with RISP.

Wow.

In addition, our cleanup hitter has FIVE, count em FIVE hits in 28 ABs with RISP. Yikes.

MRKARNO
04-30-2005, 12:32 AM
I'm not so sure. I just don't think we have a lot of hitters that will be particularly great clutch hitters. Certainly doesn't mean I'll be right and you'll be wrong. Just my humble opinion.

I disagree. There are few hitters who really distinguish themselves as really good or really bad clutch hitters and clutchness is always subjective. We have the hitters to score a lot more runs than we're doing right now. We had two balls hit that missed being homers by 2 feet or less. It's bad luck, plain and simple, but I think this team is still well on its way to a 90-95 win season.

PAPChiSox729
04-30-2005, 12:32 AM
All I'm saying is that if the offense plays the way it has so far this year, we're in big trouble, as evidenced by the past three games.

We have 139 games left. I don't expect the offense to continue to be this bad. Every team slumps. I would rather see them slump now then in September. The offense is horrible right now, but things will get better.

CHISOXFAN13
04-30-2005, 12:33 AM
And first place means what right now? All I'm saying is that if the offense plays the way it has so far this year, we're in big trouble, as evidenced by the past three games.

Tonight was a carbon copy of what the Twins did in the series against us. Squandered opportunity after opportunity.

I'm not happy about it, but stop jumping to ridiculous conclusions.

ChiSox7
04-30-2005, 12:34 AM
We have 139 games left. I don't expect the offense to continue to be this bad. Every team slumps. I would rather see them slump now then in September. The offense is horrible right now, but things will get better.

I agree, but the thing I am saying is that the offense hasn't just been bad these three games. It's really been bad all year.

We only have SIX games scoring over 5 runs this year. You just can't win like that in the American league. It's really tough.

Well, i guess I just said the last three games in my post, but thats just some of the evidence of losing with low scores. Point being its tough to keep up.

Cowhead418
04-30-2005, 12:34 AM
Another plus side is we're still on pace to win over 110 games... Think about what we'd be saying if our most recent game was a win to push us to 16-7. We'd be going crazy about that record right now. Too bad we're on a 3-game losing streak and looking to not score a run the rest of the season but leave the bases loaded every inning...

Iron Dragon
04-30-2005, 12:34 AM
I have to say I was worried at 2-1 in the 7th. Then we loaded the bases in the 9th and was praying for a clutch hit. But then Timo whiffed and (Crede?) made the last out. Pretty much game over.

Rocklive99
04-30-2005, 12:34 AM
Same old Sox, same old ****.

Same old fans.

But seriously, my sky isn't falling, but I've been second guessing Ozzie a lot this year (I let it slide last year because of the whole 1st year thing), even in situations where it worked. The loosey goosey attitude is great (or is it?), but I am not seeing "smartball". Also, being a leader/managing on the field during your playing days doesn't mean you know how to handle a bullpen, which is what worries me the most.

Is anyone else sick of watching our hitters slam their bats down with frustration whenever they pop the ball up? Win or lose, I hate seeing that.

Yes, don't tease me, it's the same as when they so "he just missed it", it bothers the you know what out of me

CHISOXFAN13
04-30-2005, 12:35 AM
Anyone else upset that Perez was called on to pinch hit for Dye?

Percival was struggling mightily against right-handed hitters and it's a situation where if Dye comes through, his confidence skyrockets. I didn't get it then, and I sure as hell don't get it now.

Frankfan4life
04-30-2005, 12:36 AM
Win or Die Trying? The fans are the only ones dying right now. How hard can it be to get a ball out of the freakin' infield when you have a man on 3rd with less than two outs? This is ridiculous. I'm going to bed.

ChiSox7
04-30-2005, 12:36 AM
Tonight was a carbon copy of what the Twins did in the series against us. Squandered opportunity after opportunity.

I'm not happy about it, but stop jumping to ridiculous conclusions.

Yes, I understand what you are saying. But overall the Twins lead the LEAGUE in BA with RISP. We are DEAD LAST. They had a bad weekend, we've had a bad year. Pitching is the only reason we are where we are, and it has been awesome. But if you are relying on your starters to keep AL teams around 2 or 3 runs EVERY game, you are going to get beat in some close games like we did tonight.

NSSoxFan
04-30-2005, 12:37 AM
Anyone else upset that Perez was called on to pinch hit for Dye?

Percival was struggling mightily against right-handed hitters and it's a situation where if Dye comes through, his confidence skyrockets. I didn't get it then, and I sure as hell don't get it now.

I didn't get that call either. I totally agree with you.

HebrewHammer
04-30-2005, 12:37 AM
My prediction:

After the Royals come to town next week we'll be laughing about this.

Blueprint1
04-30-2005, 12:38 AM
We have 139 games left. I don't expect the offense to continue to be this bad. Every team slumps. I would rather see them slump now then in September. The offense is horrible right now, but things will get better.

CAN THEY GET WORSE???

mealfred13
04-30-2005, 12:38 AM
I have to say I was worried at 2-1 in the 7th. Then we loaded the bases in the 9th and was praying for a clutch hit. But then Timo whiffed and (Crede?) made the last out. Pretty much game over.

Same here. I was ready to concede the loss when we were down 2-1. Once Timo blew his chance to be the hero for the day, I was pretty convinced we were done for the day. Bringing Shingo in didn't help either, but not because I figured he'd blow the tie. I was worried he might have to pitch more than 1 inning.

It's kind of starting to be a problem when we use most of our bullpen up and end up going into extra innings because the offense can't score.

Cowhead418
04-30-2005, 12:39 AM
Anyone else missing Frank a lot? I have a feeling that if he were healthy right now our offense would be in a groove.

Iron Dragon
04-30-2005, 12:39 AM
Anyone else upset that Perez was called on to pinch hit for Dye?

Percival was struggling mightily against right-handed hitters and it's a situation where if Dye comes through, his confidence skyrockets. I didn't get it then, and I sure as hell don't get it now.

I was definitely surprised. Nothing says confidence boost like being PH for in the bottom of the 9th inning with a good chance to win by TIMO PEREZ.

CHISOXFAN13
04-30-2005, 12:39 AM
My prediction:

After the Royals come to town next week we'll be laughing about this.

Then what happens when we play a legitimate team after KC leaves town?

NSSoxFan
04-30-2005, 12:40 AM
I just wanted to mention how it amazes me how so many of you are freaking out about this. If you're a fan of baseball, you realize it's an 162 game season. How the hell do you chicken little's handle each L? C h i l l.

mealfred13
04-30-2005, 12:40 AM
I was definitely surprised. Nothing says confidence boost like being PH for the 9th inning with a good chance to win by TIMO PEREZ.

I think that's an understatement. Percival gift-wrapped us a win.

There's no excuse for losing a game with the bases loaded in the bottom of the 9th with 1 out.

Jurr
04-30-2005, 12:40 AM
I agree, but the thing I am saying is that the offense hasn't just been bad these three games. It's really been bad all year.

We only have SIX games scoring over 5 runs this year. You just can't win like that in the American league. It's really tough.

Well, i guess I just said the last three games in my post, but thats just some of the evidence of losing with low scores. Point being its tough to keep up.
It is APRIL.......and we have seen the Sox play in Chicago, Cleveland,Detroit, and Kansas City, and those are COLD PLACES IN APRIL. Nobody's scoring a lot of runs. You have to score at the right time, and they're not doing it (well, at least the last 3 (out of 162) games)
Go to bed and cool off and quit thinking the season is over.

infohawk
04-30-2005, 12:41 AM
The pitching has still been awesome and the offense does seem to be coming around. 3 game losing streaks suck and are demoralizing, but methinks in the long term, the Sox might be doing themselves some good by just getting into a pattern of finding ways to get on base.

I'll try to see the silver lining. Most of the batting averages continue to creep upward. Iguchi looks solid. The pitching was outstanding against a pretty good offense. Can't complain about giving up three runs over eleven innings. While they couldn't take advantage of it, the team was getting guys on base. Oh, and Crede was actually awarded first base when he was hit by a pitch. Good signs all.

What struck me is that we just couldn't seem to center the ball tonight. Lot's of foul balls on pitches that were right there. No hard hit balls that I can recall. Perhaps Jermaine's double that bounced of Logan's glove, but no clean gappers. Dye did just miss a homer. I thought he had it. Same with Aaron's earlier in the game.

Guys, seriously, we shouldn't sit back and think that we are going to completely run away with the division during the first couple of months. Let's just try and win it. Lots of baseball left. The last couple of years the division lead has changed hands several times. We can't begin to print playoff tickets in April, so lets not get disappointed because we don't have a five game lead anymore. Even in the games we lose, we are right there. The Sox are not an easy team to beat!

MRKARNO
04-30-2005, 12:41 AM
we've had a bad year.

***? We have the best record in the AL and all of a sudden we hit a bump in the road and "we've had a bad year?" Jeez, we could go 161-1 and all everyone would be talking about is that one loss that should not have happened.

There are still so many good signs if you look around. As long as the pitching stays where it's been, this team isn't going to fall off.

Cowhead418
04-30-2005, 12:41 AM
I just wanted to mention how it amazes me how so many of you are freaking out about this. If you're a fan of baseball, you realize it's an 162 game season. How the hell do you chicken little's handle the each L? C h i l l.
It's just that this offense has struggled the entire year and looks like its STILL going downhill. The pitching can't keep it up forever so the offense needs to come through NOW. In fact, Big Frank needs to come back NOW. When he does I have the feeling we start a big winning streak and score lots of runs.

PAPChiSox729
04-30-2005, 12:42 AM
Yes, I understand what you are saying. But overall the Twins lead the LEAGUE in BA with RISP. We are DEAD LAST. They had a bad weekend, we've had a bad year. Pitching is the only reason we are where we are, and it has been awesome. But if you are relying on your starters to keep AL teams around 2 or 3 runs EVERY game, you are going to get beat in some close games like we did tonight.

You know, after watching the first month, I really don't think the rotation is going to collapse as bad as everyone thinks it will. Sure they won't be this good and they will have their bumps every now and then, but I really am buying this rotation. They are all quality pitchers (even Contreras). Now to the offense they have nowhere to go but up, thats how I see it. This team will play better, count on it!
:cool:

ChiSox7
04-30-2005, 12:42 AM
***? We have the best record in the AL and all of a sudden we hit a bump in the road and "we've had a bad year?" Jeez, we could go 161-1 and all everyone would be talking about is that one loss that should not have happened.

There are still so many good signs if you look around. As long as the pitching stays where it's been, this team isn't going to fall off.

Nononononono. I was talking about hitting with RISP, not the overall team. Cause the twins aren't in first right now. I was just talkin about offense.

MRKARNO
04-30-2005, 12:43 AM
It's just that this offense has struggled the entire year and looks like its STILL going downhill. The pitching can't keep it up forever so the offense needs to come through NOW. In fact, Big Frank needs to come back NOW. When he does I have the feeling we start a big winning streak and score lots of runs.

It's not that the offense is going downhill. In the early part of the season, no one was getting on base and we were converting at a very high rate. Now a lot of people are getting on base and no one can knock them home. The power seems to have faded a bit. The power will come back. The BA with RISP will increase. While on the outward, it may look like the offense is getting worse, the truth of the matter is that it's getting better, just highly inefficient.

South Side
04-30-2005, 12:44 AM
I just wanted to mention how it amazes me how so many of you are freaking out about this. If you're a fan of baseball, you realize it's an 162 game season. How the hell do you chicken little's handle each L? C h i l l.

It's really kind of scary actually. 45 minutes ago I was screaming at the television and thinking the seasons over but then I came back to reality. The problem is you all rush on here after the game ready to slit your wrists. Maybe there should be some rule for this board that says you have to wait at least a half hour to post on the post game thread. Losing sucks but try to be sane about it.

Cowhead418
04-30-2005, 12:46 AM
It's not that the offense is going downhill. In the early part of the season, no one was getting on base and we were converting at a very high rate. Now a lot of people are getting on base and no one can knock them home. The power seems to have faded a bit. The power will come back. The BA with RISP will increase. While on the outward, it may look like the offense is getting worse, the truth of the matter is that it's getting better, just highly inefficient.
I did notice in the last few games that we have been getting on base a LOT. Early in the season this rarely happened but when it did we knocked 'em in. Now we seem to get hits when it doesn't matter and then choke when it does.

Iron Dragon
04-30-2005, 12:46 AM
It's just that this offense has struggled the entire year and looks like its STILL going downhill. The pitching can't keep it up forever so the offense needs to come through NOW. In fact, Big Frank needs to come back NOW. When he does I have the feeling we start a big winning streak and score lots of runs.

I don't think it's going to matter when Frank comes back if the team doesn't start hitting without him. It'll just be ball 4 every time followed by "an easy out". The Sox MUST start hitting without him.

MRKARNO
04-30-2005, 12:46 AM
Nononononono. I was talking about hitting with RISP, not the overall team. Cause the twins aren't in first right now. I was just talkin about offense.

OK, but still, those averages tend to average out over the course of the year. With a few exceptions, most teams fall within the .240-.285 range. The Twins are at .333. The Sox are at .221. The Sox' offense is just too good to maintain that very low RISP BA

Cowhead418
04-30-2005, 12:47 AM
I think a blowout tomorrow by us will be the perfect medicine for all of us. I'm going to have a heart attack from all these nail-biting losses. How about we win one 11-1?

dcb33
04-30-2005, 12:48 AM
I think a blowout tomorrow by us will be the perfect medicine for all of us. I'm going to have a heart attack from all these nail-biting losses. How about we win one 11-1?

I'll be there tomorrow in Sec. 103, so some jacks out to RF would definitely be welcome!

SoxFan48
04-30-2005, 12:48 AM
It's really kind of scary actually. 45 minutes ago I was screaming at the television and thinking the seasons over but then I came back to reality. The problem is you all rush on here after the game ready to slit your wrists. Maybe there should be some rule for this board that says you have to wait at least a half hour to post on the post game thread. Losing sucks but try to be sane about it.

Do not deny us our posts. For many of us, it fills our daily fix need.

Iron Dragon
04-30-2005, 12:48 AM
How about we win 1.

Cowhead418
04-30-2005, 12:49 AM
We're all just spoiled. We're going crazy cause we just went 8 DAYS without losing and now after our first losing streak of the season we want blood. A win would help.

ChiSox7
04-30-2005, 12:49 AM
OK, but still, those averages tend to average out over the course of the year. With a few exceptions, most teams fall within the .240-.285 range. The Twins are at .333. The Sox are at .221. The Sox' offense is just too good to maintain that very low RISP BA

The .221 number was before the last Oakland game. After the last two games, you can imagine how much it's dropped. And you say the Sox' offense is just too good to maintain it, but a small part of me thinks its just not that good without good hitters in the middle. Paul is good, but he's not an average hitter. Neither is Dye, and ROwand is probably only going to hit around .280-290. It might come around, but it better not wait until late June to come around like it did in 2003. I dont' think we'll ahve the luxury of the Twins sucking for a month this year.

MRKARNO
04-30-2005, 12:49 AM
I did notice in the last few games that we have been getting on base a LOT. Early in the season this rarely happened but when it did we knocked 'em in. Now we seem to get hits when it doesn't matter and then choke when it does.

You tend to get more runners home when more runners reach base. We're not going to strand 6 out of 8 leadoff men when they score at a 47%ish clip on average. We're not going to hit into 9 double plays in the span of 20 innings often. We're not going to score only 2 when we have 19 baserunners. If the things that happen tonight continue to happen semi-regularly (minus the pathetic hitting in RISP situations and failures to move the runners along and get them home), it's doubtful this offense will fail to score 5+ runs consistantly.

tstrike2000
04-30-2005, 12:51 AM
Wow, 4 hours of our lives we can't get back. Ozzie needs to be like Lue Brown from the movie Major League. Everytime Willie Mays Hayes hits it in the air he has to do 20 pushups. Ozzie needs to do that with his speed guys like Pods and Willie Harris. Too many flyouts except when we needed it, Timo striking out in the bottom of the 9th.

mealfred13
04-30-2005, 12:52 AM
At least this loss doesn't suck as bad as the last 2 in Oakland. It's alot easier to swallow a loss when you can't blame the umps, and we just flat-out sucked.

SoxSpeed22
04-30-2005, 12:53 AM
Even if it's only April...
:chunks 'nuff said.

lowesox
04-30-2005, 12:57 AM
Sorry, but I think our Manager deserves a little heat for this one. If a team keeps getting its leadoff man on without moving him over, the runners left in scoring position is the managers fault as much as the players imo.

shoota
04-30-2005, 12:57 AM
Anyone else upset that Perez was called on to pinch hit for Dye?

Percival was struggling mightily against right-handed hitters and it's a situation where if Dye comes through, his confidence skyrockets. I didn't get it then, and I sure as hell don't get it now.

No. Ozzie made the right decision IMHO. In his postgame interview, Ozzie was asked the same question. Ozzie said that Dye is 0-12 against Percival lifetime. Ozzie also added that Timo is a good bet to put the ball into play and avoid the inning-ending double play, while allowing the winning run to score in the process.

And the fact that Dye is mired in a season-long slump, only helps Ozzie make his decision to pinch hit. Dye's hit into a few key GIDPs already this year, and I do not want to see his late swing against Percival's fastball.

SOX ADDICT '73
04-30-2005, 12:58 AM
My prediction:

After the Royals come to town next week we'll be laughing about this.
Don't be so sure - KC is currently riding a nine-game losing streak. They go up against Cliff Lee tomorrow. Unless Lima can win on Sunday, they will come to town losers of eleven straight. What's the likelihood that we can stretch that streak to fourteen the way we're playing? We all know how effective the Sox are at helping teams out of slumps (Oakland hadn't scored a single run for 26 straight innings before lighting up Buehrle on Tuesday).

And don't kid yourselves that taking two of three from the Royals would be enough for us. If you thought people on WSI have gone berserk over this losing streak, imagine the carnage if we were to lose even one game to KC.

halfpricemonday
04-30-2005, 01:00 AM
I know the first losing streak of the season is always hard to take. As long as our vaunted pitching helps keep this streak from being an extended one, I'd like to think we'll be okay. But considering that our past success was based primarily on our pitching and our timely hitting, it hurts to see the team regress so much in the clutch offense department.

And we all knew about our issues with Oakland, but the Tigers? I know we've got a great record against them right now, but I can't handle even the slightest hint of having this team struggle against the weak sisters of the division for another year.

Well, at least we've led in all our games so far.

shoota
04-30-2005, 01:03 AM
I have to say I was worried at 2-1 in the 7th. Then we loaded the bases in the 9th and was praying for a clutch hit. But then Timo whiffed and (Crede?) made the last out. Pretty much game over.

Yeah, it was Crede who made that out in the ninth. I remember because I stated in the chat that if Crede gets a game winning hit here, I'd jump on his bandwagon for the first time of his career. Needless to say, I'm not on his bandwagon.

dcb33
04-30-2005, 01:03 AM
I know the first losing streak of the season is always hard to take. As long as our vaunted pitching helps keep this streak from being an extended one, I'd like to think we'll be okay. But considering that our past success was based primarily on our pitching and our timely hitting, it hurts to see the team regress so much in the clutch offense department.

And we all knew about our issues with Oakland, but the Tigers? I know we've got a great record against them right now, but I can't handle even the slightest hint of having this team struggle against the weak sisters of the division for another year.

Well, at least we've led in all our games so far.

Funny you should mention that. I seem to remember the Sox having quite a few problems with the Tigers over the past several years.

If this helps cheer anyone up, the Tigers, a hot hitting team, stranded 11 men tonight and we still had numerous chances to put them away.

Let's just go get them tomorrow.

mealfred13
04-30-2005, 01:04 AM
Yeah, it was Crede who made that out in the ninth. I remember because I stated in the chat that if Crede gets a game winning hit here, I'd jump on his bandwagon for the first time of his career. Needless to say, I'm not on his bandwagon.

Crede is the last person you'd want to blame for the 9th. He was hitting with 2 out. Crede should never have had to bat in the 9th. Timo should have won the game before Crede had time to get the pine-tar on his bat.

The Racehorse
04-30-2005, 01:05 AM
Ozzie needs to be like Lue Brown from the movie Major League. Everytime Willie Mays Hayes hits it in the air he has to do 20 pushups. Ozzie needs to do that with his speed guys like Pods and Willie Harris.

Don't forget that Jermaine Dye must start practicing voodoo and worship at the alter of Jo-Boo. :cool:

shoota
04-30-2005, 01:05 AM
Even if it's only April...
:chunks 'nuff said.

Dude, speaking of hurl, Farnsy is probably already showered and changed and on his way to his favorite Chicago watering hole.

:chunks

shoota
04-30-2005, 01:07 AM
Crede is the last person you'd want to blame for the 9th. He was hitting with 2 out. Crede should never have had to bat in the 9th. Timo should have won the game before Crede had time to get the pine-tar on his bat.

I agree. I did not blame Crede for tonight's loss. But if he had been clutch and just gotten a game winning single, I would have jumped on his bandwagon. Unfortunately, he went out like a lamb.

I disagree with your statement that Crede is the last person deserving blame for the loss. I think there were a number of guys who had better games than Crede.

soxfan43
04-30-2005, 01:10 AM
i just got home from the gaeme, very disaponted, not only in the Sox but in the fans. the cell emptied out after the 9th, pathetic. Even though they choked, at least stick around

SOX ADDICT '73
04-30-2005, 01:12 AM
Vizzy and Shingo continue to stick out like sore thumbs with their gigantic ERAs out of the bullpen. Just when you think they're going to start whittling them down to something respectable, they each give up a run in an inning of work tonight. Will they ever fully recover from the tragic events of 4/7/05?

Viva Medias B's
04-30-2005, 01:13 AM
I just got back from that confidence inspiring game. Right now, our situational hitting ain't worth a damn. We lost the game in the 9th inning by failing to bring Ozuna in from third with less than two out. Also, I was scratching my head as to why Takatsu was sent out to pitch the 11th with Cotts and Politte in the bullpen. I haven't read through this 100+ post thread yet, but why did Ozzie bring the erratic Shingo in?

Our pitching, once again, was great expect for Vizcaino and Takatsu. Our starters deserve better than this.

But it turns out to be a 100% go wrong night:

We lose :angry:
Twinks win :angry:
Evil Empire wins :angry:

Well, the Cardinals won so I guess it wasn't a total loss tonight.

Knockoutinthepar
04-30-2005, 01:13 AM
Is anyone else sick of watching our hitters slam their bats down with frustration whenever they pop the ball up? Win or lose, I hate seeing that.

Your whining sounds a bit much the frustrated slam of your fingers, but at least when they slam their bats they're not crying about how their anally-retentive baseball scruples have been soiled.

mealfred13
04-30-2005, 01:16 AM
I agree. I did not blame Crede for tonight's loss. But if he had been clutch and just gotten a game winning single, I would have jumped on his bandwagon. Unfortunately, he went out like a lamb.

I disagree with your statement that Crede is the last person deserving blame for the loss. I think there were a number of guys who had better games than Crede.

I said he's the last person to blame for the 9th, not the game.

There's really no reason to bring Crede into it again though, that horse has been beaten to death. Crede didn't have a good game, but he's been doing alot better than most of the rest of the team.

If you really want someone to blame for the entire game, you might want to look at Konerko. He had several at bats today where he couldn't even move the runner along. I don't care what anyone says, but i was annoyed by Hawk and DJ saying "don't look for Paulie to bunt in this situation, he's supposed to drive in RBIs." When he's doing as badly as he has been, I see no reason not to make him bunt if it'll help the team. Let him practice driving in runs when the game isn't on the line.

shoota
04-30-2005, 01:20 AM
I just got back from that confidence inspiring game. Right now, our situational hitting ain't worth a damn. We lost the game in the 9th inning by failing to bring Ozuna in from third with less than two out. Also, I was scratching my head as to why Takatsu was sent out to pitch the 11th with Cotts and Politte in the bullpen. I haven't read through this 100+ post thread yet, but why did Ozzie bring the erratic Shingo in?

I have read the entire 100+ posts and I can confirm that there was no previous discussion of why Shingo was pitching. Normally I would never second guess Ozzie for not using Cotts, but IIRC, the game winning run was scored on a gapper hit by a left handed hitter. Farmer mentioned Shingo has trouble getting out lefties, and Cotts was available, so you have a point.

MUsoxfan
04-30-2005, 01:24 AM
I just got back from the game and I'm not as upset as I was about the last two losses. Today the Tigers beat the Sox....the Sox didn't beat themselves. A 3 game slide is nothing to worry about. The hits will come.


On a sidenote, the Detroit homerun hit the palm of my hand today before it was knocked away. It was the closest I've ever come to a HR ball. (Frank's 399th was almost as close) I'm glad the dude that got it didn't throw it back. 25% of the people out there were begging him to toss it back.

mealfred13
04-30-2005, 01:27 AM
I have read the entire 100+ posts and I can confirm that there was no previous discussion of why Shingo was pitching. Normally I would never second guess Ozzie for not using Cotts, but IIRC, the game winning run was scored on a gapper hit by a left handed hitter. Farmer mentioned Shingo has trouble getting out lefties, and Cotts was available, so you have a point.

LOL, you must have missed the post where I said I felt the game was lost as soon as Shingo was brought in. Someone else said the same thing too.

I would have figured to see Hermanson in for another inning or Politte. Once I saw Shingo, I lost all confidence of a win, especially after the horrible 9th.

shoota
04-30-2005, 01:31 AM
I said he's the last person to blame for the 9th, not the game.

There's really no reason to bring Crede into it again though, that horse has been beaten to death. Crede didn't have a good game, but he's been doing alot better than most of the rest of the team.

You're right, I reread your post and you did say Crede was the last man to blame for the 9th inning. But to be clear, I wasn't bashing him, I just said if he had drove in the winning run I'd be on his bandwagon. Timo gets most of the blame because he had the chance to hit with a runner on third and only one out.

If you really want someone to blame for the entire game, you might want to look at Konerko. He had several at bats today where he couldn't even move the runner along. I don't care what anyone says, but i was annoyed by Hawk and DJ saying "don't look for Paulie to bunt in this situation, he's supposed to drive in RBIs." When he's doing as badly as he has been, I see no reason not to make him bunt if it'll help the team. Let him practice driving in runs when the game isn't on the line.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but at the time Hawk and DJ said that, didn't Paulie get hit by a pitch? Didn't he get on base?

SpammySosa
04-30-2005, 01:33 AM
Today the Tigers beat the Sox....the Sox didn't beat themselves.
:?: :?: :?: All of those men left on base and you say the Sox didn't beat themselves?:?: :?: :?:

mealfred13
04-30-2005, 01:33 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but at the time Hawk and DJ said that, didn't Paulie get hit by a pitch? Didn't he get on base?

Ummm... I don't remember if it was that particular at-bat or not. But in a similar situation he struck out when he could have moved the runner along. I think the HBP was later to be honest.

balke
04-30-2005, 01:34 AM
I bagged on Shingo when he came in, but he could've messed up a lot worse. 2 runs was really blowing it, one run is not too bad. I get nervous when Shingo comes in, but I wouldn't drop him or anything like that.

The hitters lost this game, plain and simple. And now the outcry has changed from FOBB's screaming about OBP, to what we had with Uribe which is hitting w/ RISP. We need to score 3 runs a game if we are going to win, that's been the plan all along. I'm not begging for Frank yet, its just crazy everyone is so "close" such as A-row, Dye, Crede. Someone has to hit, and stop popping/lining out.

shoota
04-30-2005, 01:36 AM
LOL, you must have missed the post where I said I felt the game was lost as soon as Shingo was brought in. Someone else said the same thing too.

I would have figured to see Hermanson in for another inning or Politte. Once I saw Shingo, I lost all confidence of a win, especially after the horrible 9th.

I read it. And I also wrote about Shingo earlier. I was thinking more in depth though, like batter to batter matchups. I thought that's what Viva was referring to also since he mentioned Cotts and Politte as available options.

Hagan
04-30-2005, 01:44 AM
This game made me mad! Why did ozzie take out dye when he was poping everything he hit deep to the outfield when all we needed was a deep pop fly to win the game. The other thing that bothered me was bringing in shingo when he there were 2 lefties in a row that he had to face. These two moves cost us the game.

MUsoxfan
04-30-2005, 01:57 AM
:?: :?: :?: All of those men left on base and you say the Sox didn't beat themselves?:?: :?: :?:

I do say that. It's not the first time men were left on base all day and it won't be the last. When I say they didn't beat themselves they did everything right they could control by not committing any errors. This team has been woeful defensively and I think that 0 errors today is a good sign

SoxxoS
04-30-2005, 02:03 AM
Based on the stats, we shouldn't of been 16-7. I am looking at this in a positive light, a frequent occurance at WSI, and saying that we are in first place when we really shouldn't be.

Jermaine (who I would trade for Tito right now), Konerko and Rowand better get their heads out of their collective asses.

And Frank...let's get that scar tissue cleared up...SOON.

Chipol
04-30-2005, 02:04 AM
If we're playing "smartball" why doesn't Timo bunt with one out and a man one third?

Lip Man 1
04-30-2005, 02:16 AM
Apparently Ozzie agrees with those upset about the Sox 'offense'. From Mark Gonzales story in the Tribune:

"My offense has been horrible, you can't rely too much on pitching and defense."

And with respect the Tigers didn't win this game, the Sox lost it. Even giving the pitcher credit for getting out of all those james (after all he is trying to do his job remember) this game should have ended with a 3-2 Sox win in nine innings.

Certainly hitters can't execute 100% of the time, all the time, but the good teams execute in those situations a lot better then mediocre ones or losing ones. Timo needed to do his job and he didn't.

Very frustrating but nuff said. We'll see what happens tomorrow.

Lip

crector
04-30-2005, 03:46 AM
Apparently Ozzie agrees with those upset about the Sox 'offense'. From Mark Gonzales story in the Tribune:

"My offense has been horrible, you can't rely too much on pitching and defense."

And with respect the Tigers didn't win this game, the Sox lost it. Even giving the pitcher credit for getting out of all those james (after all he is trying to do his job remember) this game should have ended with a 3-2 Sox win in nine innings.

Certainly hitters can't execute 100% of the time, all the time, but the good teams execute in those situations a lot better then mediocre ones or losing ones. Timo needed to do his job and he didn't.

Very frustrating but nuff said. We'll see what happens tomorrow.

Lip


At least Lip is happy.

downstairs
04-30-2005, 08:58 AM
Everyone... off the ledge!

We're not only still first in our division, we're still (tied) for the best record in all of freaking baseball!

Viva Medias B's
04-30-2005, 10:02 AM
We're not only still first in our division, we're still (tied) for the best record in all of freaking baseball!

Not for long if we don't start hitting in key situations.

SSN721
04-30-2005, 10:52 AM
Okay this game sucked, made me want to throw up. I was pretty convinced after not coming up with the winning run in the bottom of the ninth that they would probably lose. I highly doubt they will have many games this year stranding so many runners. The middle of the lineup is ice cold. i think that that is still really the only key to success for this team. If they could just average a consistent .250-.275 We would easily be scoring 4-6 runs a game the way guys have been getting on base. Too much blame to go around in this one to single anyone out. It was a bad game, bad luck. It happens. They wont lose a lot of games like this this year I dont think.

SOX ADDICT '73
04-30-2005, 12:28 PM
Perhaps what pisses me off the most is that we had two and a half days to stew over the Oakland debacle, and they come back to us with that total piece of crap game.

balke
04-30-2005, 12:45 PM
Then we got the HBP call that we didn't get that night, and still blew it. We sucked last night, that was horrible. ANyone that blames Shingo needs to wake up and realize we just SUCKED. None of the blame should go to the pitching staff, and I'm one who pretty much hates shingo for the games I've seen out of him this year. But for the last 3 games, he's pretty much done his job. Paulie, Rowand, and Dye haven't.

I don't think we'll see the bat pulled out of Dye's hands in a situation like that again. It kinda sucks, that was a situation I liked him in, just getting a pop fly.

Lip Man 1
04-30-2005, 01:10 PM
yea Crector I was so 'happy' I took out a door last night. Any other 'brilliant' comments?

Now I understand what that poster meant a few weeks ago when after reading your inane posts he said, 'it's only Crector...' LOL

Lip

hawkjt
04-30-2005, 02:14 PM
Ouch that hurts. Couple of thoughts tho.

1. He was fooled and stuck his crotch out there to take a ball directly on the cup. Why was Crede immediately guilty of knowing where that curveball was going and this guy was not. Bottom line is that guys rarely want to be hit by a hard object going 70-100 mph. Clearly no one would choose to be hit in the crotch -that would go against all male instincts. That pitch he was hit by was closer to the strike zone than the Crede pitch. It was funny last nite tho- the only thing to laugh about in that game.

2. Are we paranoid now? That called third strike on the checked swing by our guy was not near the non-called third strike by their guy. Not even close. AJ held up and we get nailed. Is our rep hurting us or just yet another bad call against us? This is getting irritating.

Hawk was trying to mute his opinion. He was sortof successful. Lets gets some runs.

Fake Chet Lemon
04-30-2005, 03:05 PM
Anyone else upset that Perez was called on to pinch hit for Dye?

NO!!!

voodoochile
04-30-2005, 03:09 PM
yea Crector I was so 'happy' I took out a door last night. Any other 'brilliant' comments?

Now I understand what that poster meant a few weeks ago when after reading your inane posts he said, 'it's only Crector...' LOL

Lip

Just ignore Chuck... he's more of a troll than anything. He is hoping we will ban him someday, but he's not worth the effort...