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View Full Version : Uh, it's gonna take Frank to save us from Corpseball 05


Bisco Stu
04-29-2005, 10:53 PM
Can't wait till he's back in the lineup. What's the latest projection?

wsoxfan
04-29-2005, 11:27 PM
yeah this lineup sucks w/out Big Frank....:(:

RKMeibalane
04-29-2005, 11:56 PM
There is no timetable for Frank's return, yet. He is still having trouble running at full speed because of the ankle tendonitis. Maybe MLB will allow him to use a golf-cart until he can run again.

PAPChiSox729
04-30-2005, 12:17 AM
There is no timetable for Frank's return, yet. He is still having trouble running at full speed because of the ankle tendonitis. Maybe MLB will allow him to use a golf-cart until he can run again.

Maybe that should be in deep pink. Right now, this offense in pathetic.

balke
04-30-2005, 12:31 AM
Yahoo says late June. I say either that, or post all-star break.

DickAllen72
04-30-2005, 12:43 AM
When Frank is ready to come back (probably All-Star break), he should take Timo's spot on the roster.

MUsoxfan
04-30-2005, 01:27 AM
People are just dying to use the term "corpseball", aren't they. "Corpseball" is several weeks and months of nothing. This team has something. I'm sure they're deeply apoligetic to you that they don't win 13-0 everyday

Lip Man 1
04-30-2005, 02:29 AM
MU:

I think the concern is that a month has just about past and some of those comments from the 'experts,' about the Sox having trouble scoring runs this season appears to have a grain of truth in them. Personally I don't want to give them the satisfaction of saying at the end of the year, 'see..told ya''

In 8 of the 23 games played the Sox have scored three runs or less. (Record 5-3) even Ozzie tonight was quoted directly in the Tribune as saying the offense has been 'horrible.' And that you can't keep putting that kind of pressure of the pitching and defense.

I don't expect the Sox to average six runs per game, but a consistent four or five should be enough (as long as the pitching is decent) to turn this into a memorable season.

Frankly this start has increased my hopes that maybe, just maybe after 45 years as a fan, the Sox somehow might sneak into a World Series. To get there though they simply have to do a better job offensively...no excuses.

Remember they aren't facing Johann Santana every night are they? Certainly Nate Robertson doesn't qualify for that status. A little better offense may also allow Ozzie to play his style of game more as well.

Lip

WhiteSoxFan84
04-30-2005, 02:34 AM
People are just dying to use the term "corpseball", aren't they. "Corpseball" is several weeks and months of nothing. This team has something. I'm sure they're deeply apoligetic to you that they don't win 13-0 everyday

no one's asking for 13-0 wins. i think 3-2 in 9 innings would've done last night. bases loaded, 0 outs, and next 3 guys fly out (Sac fly), strikeout, and foul out? H-O-R-R-I-B-L-E.

balke
04-30-2005, 02:42 AM
I hear that Thomas guy is a Clubhouse cancer though.

IowaSox1971
04-30-2005, 02:54 AM
We have a decent lineup. The problem is that everybody in the middle of the lineup is in somewhat of a slump. When these guys start hitting, we will have a very productive offense. All teams have droughts on offense from time to time. I'm just happy that we're 16-7 even when we're not hitting very well.

SoxxoS
04-30-2005, 03:04 AM
We have a decent lineup. The problem is that everybody in the middle of the lineup is in somewhat of a slump. When these guys start hitting, we will have a very productive offense. All teams have droughts on offense from time to time. I'm just happy that we're 16-7 even when we're not hitting very well.

This is true. Rowand, Konerko and especially Jermaine Dye : :chunks

Nellie_Fox
04-30-2005, 03:11 AM
Can we retire the term "corpseball?" I can't tell you how much I hate it.


Did you really think this team would go the whole year without losing three in a row?

Sleep520
04-30-2005, 03:26 AM
I can't wait for a healthy Frank.

Frater Perdurabo
04-30-2005, 08:11 AM
Last night, a simple sac fly would have won it in the ninth. A simple slap single would have won it in the ninth.

The Sox stranded 16 runners last night, many gained through walks. There simply is no excuse to score two runs when you have that many baserunners!

When the Sox get baserunners, they don't drive them home. When the Sox get extra base hits or two consecutive singles, no one is on base! This is a problem of execution.

Thank goodness for the pitching so far, because the offense is pathetic. Frank cannot return soon enough. I hope this terrible performance of late demonstrates to the anti-Frank faction (which may, according to some rumours, include Kenny Williams) how important the Big Hurt is to this team.

oldcomiskey
04-30-2005, 09:07 AM
damnit--we are 16-7---enjoy the moment

PaleHoseGeorge
04-30-2005, 09:21 AM
Don't worry about the offense guys. "Pitching and DEFENSE" wins championships.

:kukoo:

MINFAN1
04-30-2005, 09:51 AM
We have run into a slump with our hitting. Also, our defense is suffering with injuries to key players. Unless your a very lucky team, you can run into these problems though the season. I am just happy we are, where we are right now. To think that Frank Thomas will save us this year, or any other time in the future could be a dream. Frank is 37, and is accumulating a history of injuries in the past few years. Even when he returns, he may not be the hitter he once was with that foot problem.

SSN721
04-30-2005, 10:07 AM
I dont think this is corpseball. I think if this continues for another couple weeks it might qualify. The pitching has kept us in it thats for sure. But just imagine how good this team will be when the middle of the lineup heats up. I just dont beleive all our middle lineup will be this bad all year.

Cellview22
04-30-2005, 10:20 AM
Why is everyone so optimistic about Frank returning this year? I honestly don't think he'll even be ready to play for us at all this year. I just don't see it happening. Hope I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem realistic to me. :(:

I just want winning baseball... and another 8-game winning streak will do! It's about time the offense breaks out.

Jjav829
04-30-2005, 11:06 AM
I'm tired of waiting for Frank to come back. This group of players needs to start hitting. Keep in mind, we don't even know what Frank will be like when he comes back. Anyone who expects him to come back and start hitting like the Frank Thomas of the 90s is expecting far too much. By the time he comes back, there's a good chance he won't have played baseball in a nearly a full year. That's a lot of time off. During that team off he's had numerous things done to his ankle. We have no idea what type of effect that will have on Frank. We don't know how good Frank will be. Even if he plays well, he's still only one player. It's not going to mean much if Frank draws his normal walks, only to have PK, Dye, etc. not drive him in.

Bottom line, this current group of players has to start hitting, especially Jermaine Dye.

balke
04-30-2005, 01:08 PM
I'm tired of waiting for Frank to come back. This group of players needs to start hitting. Keep in mind, we don't even know what Frank will be like when he comes back. Anyone who expects him to come back and start hitting like the Frank Thomas of the 90s is expecting far too much. By the time he comes back, there's a good chance he won't have played baseball in a nearly a full year. That's a lot of time off. During that team off he's had numerous things done to his ankle. We have no idea what type of effect that will have on Frank. We don't know how good Frank will be. Even if he plays well, he's still only one player. It's not going to mean much if Frank draws his normal walks, only to have PK, Dye, etc. not drive him in.

Bottom line, this current group of players has to start hitting, especially Jermaine Dye.


Agreed, and I'd say Dye AND PK. Pk is the leader of this team whether he likes it or not. He's the highest paid hitter, and the biggest name on the ticket. He can't be GIDPing left and right, while pulling 0-4's in 1 run games. IF we don't get Frank back for a while, maybe Anderson can come up here and mix things up.

Lip Man 1
04-30-2005, 01:26 PM
PHG's point is well taken. However wasn't the 'major' change in philosophy born out of the following:

Four years of all of nothing, homer hitting, station to station baseball that failed to result in a playoff appearance?

The unfortunate fact that the Sox organization felt they either wouldn't or couldn't afford to re-sign the big sluggers AND upgrade the pitching staff?

I'm not ripping PHG, his point is valid.. I guess my issue is with the organization which is limiting themselves on the things they can do because of economics whether real or imagined. It appears they felt this was the only way they could go and I for one was for the change since point #1 wasn't working and obviously point #2 wasn't going to happen on the South Side.

Lip

seanpmurphy
04-30-2005, 01:27 PM
The Sox will start winning as soon as they start hitting the ball.....who knew!

SoxxoS
04-30-2005, 01:29 PM
Even with this offense than has been awful...keep in mind we could have easily won these last 3 games with a hit in a key situation.

I'm sure KW is going to address the problem if need be. It's easier to get offense than pitching.

I am predominately worried about Shingo. I think the AL has figured him out, and that's a big problem.

Lip Man 1
04-30-2005, 01:31 PM
Soxxos:

I don't disagree with you just a point of caution, it's far to early for teams to be trading. July is a long way off. Unless Frank comes back this is the lineup probably for the next month or so. Improvement is going to have to come from within over the short term.

Lip

TheBull19
04-30-2005, 01:42 PM
MU:

A little better offense may also allow Ozzie to play his style of game more as well.

Lip

If you can't play Ozzie's style of ball when you get 11 walks, I don't see when you can. Of course, we are only a little more than 20 games into the season, I think there is still a possibility the offense gets it together, but if they keep failing to just put together the 3 or 4 runs needed to get wins from these strong pitching performances and a good 6 or 7 runs occassionally to take some stress of the staff, there needs to be a shake up. I don't really know what, but the offense needs to wake up, whether its small ball, smart ball or long ball. The last couple of games just show the pitching can only take you so far I just hope KW has got his thinking cap on and his phone at the ready.

balke
04-30-2005, 01:43 PM
Well, PHG is as right as someone who would say hitting alone wins championships. We tried that, and failed miserably. Our pitching staff is ridiculously good, and our Defense is great... especially when Uribe is in there.

Last year we knocked the cover off the ball but had a bunch of stupid errors in the field a horrible bullpen, and no 5th starter. We didn't get very far with that.

Now we are getting quality starts from all 5 starters, and don't have the one or two clutch hits we need to win games. Shingo isn't the problem, loser hitters are.

I think this pitching formula is a better one than the hitting formula, because we have everything we need except people swinging the bat well. And even with the 17 LOB last night, we lost by one run. We have a better record now than we did with all sluggers last april. If we get some clutch hits, we're going to win a lot in May as well. We can still win this series.

Not a lot of teams have the pitching to get a quality start against Detroit out of the 3 spot. We're going to have the opportunity to win every game, and as long as we put out a full starting lineup, I think we'll win the vast majority of these close games.

If anything, a game where 17 runners got on base gives me hope. Either someone has to get lucky with all those runners on, or someone will turn clutch, and we'll end up scoring the 3-4 runs we need to win.

Depth and balance is still going to win us games.

JB98
04-30-2005, 01:51 PM
Even with this offense than has been awful...keep in mind we could have easily won these last 3 games with a hit in a key situation.

I'm sure KW is going to address the problem if need be. It's easier to get offense than pitching.

I am predominately worried about Shingo. I think the AL has figured him out, and that's a big problem.

I'm also worried about Shingo, but for a different reason. I think his control sucks. When you're 2-0, 3-1, ball four on every hitter, you're going to get your ass kicked. There is no excuse for walking a leadoff hitter in a tie game in extra innings.

As for the offense, what we need is for someone to knock the damn ball out of the park and give us a spark. That's what happened the first game in Oakland. We had Corpseball for the first six innings. Then Widger went deep, and we exploded for six runs in the last three innings. That's the only HR we've hit in our last seven games, and it was by a journeyman backup catcher.

It's time for the middle of this order to put up or shut up. We can't sit around and wait for Frank to bail us out. Konerko is hitting .220. That's a bad sign since he usually hits about .180 in May. He needs to pick it up. Ditto for A-Row, Dye and AJ. Check the RBI totals for those three guys. They are all in single digits. For 23 games into the season, that's not acceptable.

PAPChiSox729
04-30-2005, 01:53 PM
Well, PHG is as right as someone who would say hitting alone wins championships. We tried that, and failed miserably. Our pitching staff is ridiculously good, and our Defense is great... especially when Uribe is in there.

Last year we knocked the cover off the ball but had a bunch of stupid errors in the field a horrible bullpen, and no 5th starter. We didn't get very far with that.

Now we are getting quality starts from all 5 starters, and don't have the one or two clutch hits we need to win games. Shingo isn't the problem, loser hitters are.

I think this pitching formula is a better one than the hitting formula, because we have everything we need except people swinging the bat well. And even with the 17 LOB last night, we lost by one run. We have a better record now than we did with all sluggers last april. If we get some clutch hits, we're going to win a lot in May as well. We can still win this series.

Not a lot of teams have the pitching to get a quality start against Detroit out of the 3 spot. We're going to have the opportunity to win every game, and as long as we put out a full starting lineup, I think we'll win the vast majority of these close games.

If anything, a game where 17 runners got on base gives me hope. Either someone has to get lucky with all those runners on, or someone will turn clutch, and we'll end up scoring the 3-4 runs we need to win.

Depth and balance is still going to win us games.

"I love it when you analyze."

I agree with everything you had to say. Our pitching has been outstanding and our defense has been good. Unfortunately, right now the hitting looks the same as it did last year when it came to hitting with RISP. I don't know the exact stats, but I can recall many times last year when those clutch hits just never came. The hitting will wake up sooner or later... preferably sooner rather than later.

JB98
04-30-2005, 01:54 PM
damnit--we are 16-7---enjoy the moment

I know I've thorougly enjoyed the last three games. How about you?

balke
04-30-2005, 01:54 PM
The unfortunate fact that the Sox organization felt they either wouldn't or couldn't afford to re-sign the big sluggers AND upgrade the pitching staff?

I'm not ripping PHG, his point is valid.. I guess my issue is with the organization which is limiting themselves on the things they can do because of economics whether real or imagined. It appears they felt this was the only way they could go and I for one was for the change since point #1 wasn't working and obviously point #2 wasn't going to happen on the South Side.

Lip

What sluggers were we going to resign? CLee is as bad as anyone right now where he is, and Magglio is broken. I didn't see Dye's slump coming, I'm sure noone did.

We made a great thing out of a horrible problem. Walker and Delgado refused to come here at the end of last season, Maggs refused to come here, and we really didn't want him. So our biggest sluggers to start the season were CLee and PK. As much as I would've liked PK to be the one cut loose, we made the best deal we could by getting a leadoff hitter (who's been great so far) and a "real" bullpen arm w/ cash back. Then a cheap serviceable RF is signed, along with a catcher and a great cheap starter, and a bargain bin future ROY Japanese 2nd baseman.

You can't beat that. We were coming into the season dead, and KW somehow gave this team life. If/when we get that batter or two we need, this team will do great things. They might already be here in Frank Thomas, and Anderson. There's no real good place to insert a slugger, except further logjamming the Outfield.

Rowand and Dye need to wake up, with Paulie so we don't have to make moves. End of story.

Lip Man 1
04-30-2005, 11:29 PM
Balke:

Just for the sake of discussion I think PHG's point was that to win the Sox needed to copy the Yankees style of baseball, hit 250 home runs a season AND have outstanding pitching (that hasn't happened so far this season but it's worked very well for the past ten years...)

The problem is in order to do that you need a very high payroll (top pitching especially costs top dollars) and the Sox simply don't have it.

The current method is a stopgap of sorts, improve the pitching and hope you can find other ways to score runs.

I'm not opposed to it, that's the reality of the situation, but it would have been nice to keep Lee (who when all is said and done with still probably hit around .285 or so) AND pick up many of the pieces that the Sox did this past off season (or someone like them.) I agree with George on that point. Unfortunately circumstances being what they are with ownership they weren't able to do both.

Lip

Nellie_Fox
05-01-2005, 01:55 AM
I know I've thorougly enjoyed the last three games. How about you?So, you figured the team would never lose three in a row?

If you guys can't take losing streaks, you need to find a sport other than Major League Baseball to be a fan of. The Sox had a thundering offense for how many years, and won what? But a bunch of you guys are ready to quit on a change in philosophy 24 games into a 162 game season.

oldcomiskey
05-01-2005, 10:12 AM
So, you figured the team would never lose three in a row?

If you guys can't take losing streaks, you need to find a sport other than Major League Baseball to be a fan of. The Sox had a thundering offense for how many years, and won what? But a bunch of you guys are ready to quit on a change in philosophy 24 games into a 162 game season.
Fox--Im gonna tell you what---I was watching the game against Detroit when they were losing 3-1 late in the game and I was waiting for the comeback--wheras last year we wouldve lost that game--and several others this year BTW--say what you want about Ozzie--but hes got them playing ball