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View Full Version : Any morons who don't think Frank is a lock for the HOF...link them this website


SoxxoS
04-29-2005, 03:36 PM
Got into an argument, and this shut him up (http://www.baseballbeat.blogspot.com/2003_07_01_baseballbeat_archive.html)

If anyone is skeptical of the foregoing because they think Thomas' career is in major decline, check this:

* Thomas ranks in the top ten in the A.L. this year in OBP, SLG, OPS, TA, RC, HR, and BB.

The main reason why the casual fan believes Thomas is no longer one of the best hitters in baseball is because his batting average has fallen from a range of .308-.353 from 1991-1997 to .265-.328 from 1998-2003, including .277 this year. Of importance though is the fact that Thomas' power and ability to get on base via walks is about on par with his career level. To wit, The Big Hurt ranks second in the league this year in isolated power and secondary average. Accordingly, the only real change in his game is the greater number of singles that Thomas had earlier in his career versus the past few years.

Conclusion: It is highly probable that Thomas' rate stats will decline over time. As a result, his career ranking in those categories could slip a few notches between now and his retirement. However, Thomas will offset any slippage in his rate standings with improved counting stats over the course of his career. In any event, I think it could easily be argued that Thomas is one of the top 20 hitters in baseball history. Despite Thomas' shortcomings as a fielder and as a baserunner, if being one of the five best first basemen and 20 greatest hitters ever isn't worthy of Hall of Fame status, then they may as well shut down Cooperstown.

mweflen
04-29-2005, 03:53 PM
And all of these numbers are old. Thomas is a first ballot lock, if there is any justice. Since there isn't (i.e. all national media hate the Sox and everything associated) he'll probably squeak in on a 2nd or 3rd try.

Just look at mlb.com's all-time leaderboards. It's a no-brainer.

He's 12th all-time slugging. 5th all-time OBP. 19th all-time BB.
10th all-time career OPS.

His numbers (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats_historical/mlb_individual_stats_player.jsp?playerID=123245&HS=True) should end up very similar to Jimmie Foxx. (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats_historical/mlb_individual_stats_player.jsp?playerID=114367&HS=True)

It is just ridiculous that there is argument about this.

MRKARNO
04-29-2005, 04:18 PM
This was brought up a long time ago IIRC back when it was written. Since then, Thomas's rate stats havent even gone down all that much because of his 2004 which was in line with his career averages rate-wise.

Dolanski
04-29-2005, 05:17 PM
It is reasonable to question Thomas' HOF status because of the era he played in and the astronomical numbers that Barroids, Syringin Sammy, et all put up. 500 HRs ain't what it used to be.

Look at someone like Ryne Sandberg. Based on his offense AND defense, he should have been a first ballot (I know he's a Cub and all, but we are talking pure numbers here). Most HRs by a 2b, best fielding percentage EVER, etc. It took him two tries, and he played for the media darling Cubs. The offensive skew of this era plus the lack of a championship put him off some voters lists. For someone like Frank, he has those knocks plus the sometimes nasty relationship with the media. Add to that the whole DH bias and the pitiful defense (face it, he sucked at 1b) and it just isn't going to be a lock.

Do I think he should be an HOF? Yes. For most of the 90s he was the most feared hitter in baseball. Just scary. I just don't see the writers giving him his credit.

mccombe_35
04-29-2005, 05:21 PM
He should be a lock. From 1990 - 2000 he was the AL leader in MVP votes. I love that stat.

hawkjt
04-30-2005, 02:43 PM
I also love that stat. And this one.

All time stats have 4 players ahead of Frank in on base %. I believe that when a batter walks up to the plate his number one job is to get on base. That is the objective -not making an out. And in this most important measurement of how a batter succeeds the only guys out of literally tens of thousands of players in the last hundred years that are ahead of Frank are Babe,Gehrig,Ted Williams and Bonds.

Are you telling me that Frank is not an immortal in his game? He had to be a first ballot if the above four are and I think they are.

oldcomiskey
04-30-2005, 06:01 PM
well consider me an idiot---hes not going unless he hits 500 HRs or buys a ticket

batmanZoSo
04-30-2005, 08:55 PM
And in this most important measurement of how a batter succeeds the only guys out of literally tens of thousands of players in the last hundred years that are ahead of Frank are Babe,Gehrig,Ted Williams and Bonds.


I always liked this stat.


* Thomas ranks 6th among all players in career OBP

OBP OBP
1 Ted Williams .482
2 Babe Ruth .474
3 Lou Gehrig .447
4 Rogers Hornsby .434
5 Ty Cobb .433
6 Frank Thomas .432

Bonds has since moved to 4th with .443. But there is only one right hander ahead of Frank in on-base percentage. There's a reason for that--it's easier to be a lefty.

All Thomas has to do his hit 500 homers and there's no way you can keep him out. It's not even an argument.


Enjoy the moment, folks. Active players Bonds, Ramirez, and Thomas are three of the most prodigious sluggers in history. Period.