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LVSoxFan
04-28-2005, 10:50 AM
We had a great start, but after the Oakland series all I can think of is: reality.

16-6 sure ain't a bad way to begin. But honestly I am completely underwhelmed by how we started--all that matters is how we finish. All-Star break should be a good barometer.

This team has been so all over the place for the first 22 games it's hard to get a bead on where we're heading, but it definitely feels different than last year. It definitely is a different team, you can feel that. Can they get it done? We'll see.

We have a chance to beat up on division weaklings this next week: Detroit and K.C. Stomping them will be a good start, and a good lead over Minnesota. Oakland didn't work out the way we'd hoped, but that series was just bizarre for games two and three. Not worried about it.

Only 140 games to go! Now that the honeymoon's over, embrace the fact that the fight starts now!

rdwj
04-28-2005, 11:36 AM
The first couple sentences made me think this was going to be a "sky is falling" thread - but I totally agree with you. Nice starts are ...well, nice - but that's about it.

We won't know what we really have her for quite some time yet, but it sure isn't the same ole thing - that's for sure!

I'm just hoping for the best

lowesox
04-28-2005, 11:48 AM
You're right. The White Sox wll not maintain this same winning percentage all year. I think a few players will slow down a bit (Garland and Iguchi, for instance) and a few players will turn it up a notch (Dye?). The key thing, especially after Frank comes back and changes the lockerrom dynamic, will be maintaining the same level of fight - because I really think it's how hard this team battled that propelled them to the best record in baseball.

voodoochile
04-28-2005, 11:51 AM
Just wanted to start a thread to remind everybody that the Sox have had a great start to the season. Even with an inconsistent offense, they have been on a record setting pace both for early season record and obviously for wins at the end of the season. Even with the recent setback in Oakland, they have a 3 game lead on Minnesota and now have 6 games at home against two of the weakest teams in the AL sandwiched around a second day off in a 5 day period.

The pitching remains top notch and until yesterday's game they were averaging 5.9 runs scored over the road trip a sign that the offense may be picking up a bit.

Some of the nagging injuries are piling up as witnessed by the odd starting lineup yesterday and the way the game ended with a left side of the infield consisting of Widger and Dye :o:.

Still, this team is off to a great start. They have won all but one series on the season and have absolutely dominated every team from the ALC they have faced from a W/L perspective.

Great start, now keep it going! GO SOX!

Edit: I merged my thread with LVSOXVAN'S thread because they were so similar. Great minds and all that...:wink:

tlebar318
04-28-2005, 11:56 AM
We need to get over the hump on some of these nagging injuries and get the Big Hurt back and we will be fine. Yesterday's lineup is not something I would like to see every day that is for sure. It was "interesting" but enough of that lineup. I will predict 95 wins for the year! only 79 more to go! That should win the division. 2005 is shaping up as a very memorable year! Go Sox!:bandance:

itsnotrequired
04-28-2005, 12:01 PM
What makes the couple Oakland losses tough is how they lost the games. Aside from the bullpen meltdown game against Cleveland, the other losses haven't been nearly as bad. Losses in tough, well-played games are much easier to swallow than games where the Sox beat themselves with errors, swinging at bad pitches, poor baserunning, etc. 16-6 is a great start (still the best record in the majors) especially going 6-2 on the road.

I am a little concerned, however, with how banged-up the team is this early in the season. Playing through pain is part of the game but shouldn't have to be this early in the season.

Flight #24
04-28-2005, 12:04 PM
For all the gloom & doom over the O, it's interesting to note that while the pitching has remained fairly outstanding (Buehrle's meltdown notwithstanding), the offense has been steadily improving, posting a .358 OBP over the past week. That corresponds to Podsednik being back in the lineup, which IMO plays a sizeable role.

Obviously an extremely small sample size, but it's a nice trend that the pitching isn't declining, but the O is improving. If that keeps up, we're going to be fine. We'll see starting tomorrow against some weaker teams. It'd be nice to make some hay, get some help from the Angels, and open the lead back up to 5 or so.

LVSoxFan
04-28-2005, 12:10 PM
Hey if they're gonna be banged up, let it be now and not after the All-Star break, or right before it, like last year.

Life is about timing, right? I'm fine with a bad stretch now due to injuries, as along as we can pull away from the pack when it counts.

And we got an unexpected "gift": Ozzie's "experimental" team which supposedly gave away all the power for a bunch of what-ifs managed to put together the best start in Sox history--I'll take it.

And still nobody respects us--I'll take that too.

And still the media coverage is spare--fine by me.

But nobody remembers "best starts." The finish is the only thing that matters. So let the Oakland-type fiasco games and injuries come now, and let's be over with them. After July 12th, I want to go on a Red Sox-like stampede.

Go Sox! And you gotta love a season where Crede gets tossed from a game, and Contreras is beaning batters for making him run off the mound, LMAO! This is a different team!

oooh rah!

Lip Man 1
04-28-2005, 12:12 PM
I think Frank Thomas is going to turn out to be a bigger key to this season then perhaps at first thought. That being said there is a story by Doug Padilla in the Sun-Times that spoke with Thomas in Oakland.

Nothing has changed with him, no one (inlcuding Thomas) has an idea when it will change. Frank is being optimistic but some talk has started about his return now coming after the All Star break.

Lip

jabrch
04-28-2005, 12:14 PM
I am a little concerned, however, with how banged-up the team is this early in the season. Playing through pain is part of the game but shouldn't have to be this early in the season.

While I agree with you, and Dye having to play SS is evidence of this, I would say that despite our injuries, we have nobody on the DL besides the Big Guy. So our being "banged up" is more little knicks and dings that needed a day or two to heal, rather than significant injuries that need two weeks off. It's unfortunate they came all in the same short timeframe, and we had to start a C at 3B, a 3B at SS, then move our RF into play SS...I was waiting for Bafia to be called in to play 2B at the next injury...

Lets see how these knicks and dings play out. If nobody has to go on the shelf, and having a few days off helps them, then we are just fine. 2 sad losses in Oakland will all be forgotten if we win 4 of 6 or better vs the Magglios and the Royals - a totally realistic goal.

LVSoxFan
04-28-2005, 12:14 PM
Honestly I'll be amazed if he comes back at all--or at best maybe he'll be back in time for the playoffs if we make it.

Obviously that was a major, major injury--the man has been out for almost a year.
My Sox plan assumes that Frank does not come back. Hope for the best, but expect the worst.

elrod
04-28-2005, 12:14 PM
It's all about the pitching, folks. If our pitching stays solid we will be there at the very end. Injuries here and there to Uribe or Podsednik or Iguchi might contribute to a loss here and there but the pitching is what will determine how much staying power this team has.

LVSoxFan
04-28-2005, 12:20 PM
Agreed.

The way Freddy pitched, that game yesterday should have been a win. The injuries--and some weird calls--made it a loss.

Those will come and go, though. As long as the pitching is strong, we're in a good spot.

And BTW, how 'bout that pitching?! What a year so far! Garland is 4-0? Everybody's looking pretty good (save for our #1 two nights ago--ouch!).

daveeym
04-28-2005, 12:22 PM
Honestly I'll be amazed if he comes back at all--or at best maybe he'll be back in time for the playoffs if we make it.

Obviously that was a major, major injury--the man has been out for almost a year.
My Sox plan assumes that Frank does not come back. Hope for the best, but expect the worst. If the sox make the playoffs and frank makes it back "for the playoffs" I hope he's left off the roster.

batmanZoSo
04-28-2005, 12:28 PM
If the sox make the playoffs and frank makes it back "for the playoffs" I hope he's left off the roster.

Oh come on. This guy can't buy respect in this town. His presence alone is worth something, especially in the playoffs.

LVSoxFan
04-28-2005, 12:34 PM
Hey I have no ill-will towards Frank whatsoever.

Last year, before he got hurt, Frank was a producer and a team player and he definitely ditched his Manuel-era whining. I respect him for that.

But, I will say: if this team is chugging along and they've formed the chemistry and Everett continues to produce--why even bother putting Frank back in the lineup? Because of his name?

And woe to those who keep suggesting putting Frank in as DH and moving Everett to the outfield. Yikes! I'd rather see Ozuna out there than Carl "Crash" Everett!

24thStFan
04-28-2005, 12:34 PM
Right now, the Sox are playing at a .727 clip. Can they continue at this pace? Probably not, but they have given us a great start to the ’05 season. My hat’s off to every player and the management—great job.



Reality suggests that the Sox will regress some and the important question is how much? If they start playing .500 ball, will that win the AL Central? I don’t think so. But if the Sox play .600 ball over the next 140 games, they’ll win 84 and finish the season with 100 wins. Will that be enough to win the division? Hell yes—so I’m hoping for the Sox to win three out every five games—no mean feat, but it could happen.

MIgrenade
04-28-2005, 01:01 PM
The Sox are still 10 games over and 3 games ahead, if anyone told me that would be the case after April I would have been shocked. The injuries are catching up with us but as long as the pitching holds up we will win. The last two games have been memorably ridiculous and they are not judges of our ability, the same way the Royals series wasn't because the Royals played so bad. But the Sox have beat the Twins, Indians, and Tigers. That means something.

Flight #24
04-28-2005, 01:55 PM
Hey I have no ill-will towards Frank whatsoever.

Last year, before he got hurt, Frank was a producer and a team player and he definitely ditched his Manuel-era whining. I respect him for that.

But, I will say: if this team is chugging along and they've formed the chemistry and Everett continues to produce--why even bother putting Frank back in the lineup? Because of his name?

And woe to those who keep suggesting putting Frank in as DH and moving Everett to the outfield. Yikes! I'd rather see Ozuna out there than Carl "Crash" Everett!

This may be the most ludicrous statement/question I've seen. It's not Frank Thomas' NAME, it's his BAT and his EYE. Or more to the point, it's adding a guy who'll hit .280+ with a .400+OBP and excellent SLG to the lineup. Whether you play Dye or Carl and where is merely a debate between those 2 guys. Neither holds a candle to Frank Thomas offensively.

If Frank can't be Frank because of the injury, fine. But I've yet to hear anything that would say that. The worst case scenario right now apepars to be him having trouble running, but hitting fine. They're trying to get the full package out of him. But in the end, if they can't, it's better to have him out their getting on base and running poorly than anyone else on the team even if they run better.

daveeym
04-28-2005, 02:04 PM
Oh come on. This guy can't buy respect in this town. His presence alone is worth something, especially in the playoffs.Get off your knees from in front of frank. It has nothing to do with respect. If we made it there without him, we don't need a 1/2 dimensional player who's out of playing shape taking up a spot on the bench for a possible 9th inning kirk gibson appearance. If he can make it back before then great, but if I'm running things and he plays less than a month of games (maybe 3 weeks) before the playoffs, he's getting left off the roster, WINNING is more important than Frank playing at that point.

daveeym
04-28-2005, 02:12 PM
This may be the most ludicrous statement/question I've seen. It's not Frank Thomas' NAME, it's his BAT and his EYE. Or more to the point, it's adding a guy who'll hit .280+ with a .400+OBP and excellent SLG to the lineup. Whether you play Dye or Carl and where is merely a debate between those 2 guys. Neither holds a candle to Frank Thomas offensively.

If Frank can't be Frank because of the injury, fine. But I've yet to hear anything that would say that. The worst case scenario right now apepars to be him having trouble running, but hitting fine. They're trying to get the full package out of him. But in the end, if they can't, it's better to have him out their getting on base and running poorly than anyone else on the team even if they run better. You need to get off your knees too, BP isn't live pitching, which isn't even game pitching. Great thomas looks great in a batting cage, HE'D LOOK GREAT HITTING FROM A WHEELCHAIR IN A BATTING CAGE. If he can't run he can't go full out on the ankle which means IT DOES EFFECT HIS HITTING, regardless of Mystic Herm. Healthy frank i'd love to have back but as it stands now it's questionable at best that he'll play before the ASG let alone all year. If the Sox are still winning he better well be 110% healthy if you think of removing those others doing well.

Flight #24
04-28-2005, 02:17 PM
You need to get off your knees too, BP isn't live pitching, which isn't even game pitching. Great thomas looks great in a batting cage, HE'D LOOK GREAT HITTING FROM A WHEELCHAIR IN A BATTING CAGE. If he can't run he can't go full out on the ankle which means IT DOES EFFECT HIS HITTING, regardless of Mystic Herm. Healthy frank i'd love to have back but as it stands now it's questionable at best that he'll play before the ASG let alone all year. If the Sox are still winning he better well be 110% healthy if you think of removing those others doing well.

The whole premise was that Frank's hitting is fine (as reported by Frank & Herm), and he can run but it's with pain and not full speed.

I'll say it again: If Frank can hit but not run well, then it's only a ludicrously stupid GM that doesn't want him on the team. Especially this team. Even if he's running slower than Konerko. Forgoing a .400OBP and .500SLG to the lineup because "we're winning without him" is just plain dumb. Improving by swapping Carl/Dye for Frank will increase the chances of you winning, especially against good teams & good pitching, which tend to be present in the playoffs.

Obviously if he's not hitting well, then it's a different story. I haven't seen anyone say that he should be here if he's not hitting, and IMO that would be obvious.

daveeym
04-28-2005, 03:19 PM
The whole premise was that Frank's hitting is fine (as reported by Frank & Herm), and he can run but it's with pain and not full speed.

I'll say it again: If Frank can hit but not run well, then it's only a ludicrously stupid GM that doesn't want him on the team. Especially this team. Even if he's running slower than Konerko. Forgoing a .400OBP and .500SLG to the lineup because "we're winning without him" is just plain dumb. Improving by swapping Carl/Dye for Frank will increase the chances of you winning, especially against good teams & good pitching, which tend to be present in the playoffs.

Obviously if he's not hitting well, then it's a different story. I haven't seen anyone say that he should be here if he's not hitting, and IMO that would be obvious. But see the problem is you're all giving frank .400obp .500slg before he even takes 1 at bat as a given. And if he hasn't played all year but is "ready" for the playoffs, y'all want him inserted right in as if he's been playing all year. That's the problem I'm seeing.

voodoochile
04-28-2005, 06:15 PM
Get off your knees from in front of frank. It has nothing to do with respect. If we made it there without him, we don't need a 1/2 dimensional player who's out of playing shape taking up a spot on the bench for a possible 9th inning kirk gibson appearance. If he can make it back before then great, but if I'm running things and he plays less than a month of games (maybe 3 weeks) before the playoffs, he's getting left off the roster, WINNING is more important than Frank playing at that point.

define 1/2 dimensional?

Do you mean a guy who hits for power and reaches base at a .400 clip but doesn't play defense?

What if he tears the cover off the ball for those three weeks?

You seem like your mind is made up to some extent and honestly it boggles the mind why you wouldn't want a guy like Frank on the roster. Even if the issue is chemistry, how much chemistry do you lose dumping the 25th man on your bench or a relief pitcher who won't pitch in any game (Cotts) because the 5th worst starter will take that roll?

If Frank is healthy he should be on the roster come playoff time or the minute he is healthy enough to play, period. They can always give the poor schlep who got booted a WS ring to thank them for their contributions during the year and tell them if they make it to their 16th year with the organization, are a lock for the HOF and have come anywhere close to producing like Frank has since day one of his tenur with the club, they will be afforded the same respect if something similar happens to them at that time.

Tell you what, come September 15th if this is an issue, they can ask Carl who he wants on the roster, Frank or Cotts...

:everett:
"Why are you bothering me with these stupid questions? Frank goes to the playoffs and Cotts can go digging for dinosaur bones for all I care..."

soxwon
04-28-2005, 06:52 PM
You're right. The White Sox wll not maintain this same winning percentage all year. I think a few players will slow down a bit (Garland and Iguchi, for instance) and a few players will turn it up a notch (Dye?). The key thing, especially after Frank comes back and changes the lockerrom dynamic, will be maintaining the same level of fight - because I really think it's how hard this team battled that propelled them to the best record in baseball.

just remember if they play .500 ball the rest of the way
thats 87 wins, you know we will play over .500 ball
we are talkin 90 wins atleast, thats good enough for the playoffs.