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downstairs
04-28-2005, 09:05 AM
I wonder:

1. How much better (worse?) we'd be right now if Frank were healthy since game 1?

2. When he does come back, does that help us a lot?

There's been little talk of missing him, obviously, because of our outstanding play. But the classic ChiSox argument has always been "you'll be good only if Frank is healthy and playing well."

VivaOzzie
04-28-2005, 09:11 AM
I wonder:

1. How much better (worse?) we'd be right now if Frank were healthy since game 1?

2. When he does come back, does that help us a lot?

There's been little talk of missing him, obviously, because of our outstanding play. But the classic ChiSox argument has always been "you'll be good only if Frank is healthy and playing well."

He couldve played short for us yesterday...

But seriously, at the very least we couldve used his bat off the bench in some of those clutch situations. Or he wouldve been starting, then we would have somebody like Crazy Carl to pinch hit. Wouldve made a huge difference.

tstrike2000
04-28-2005, 09:11 AM
I don't know how much he'll help us right after he comes back considering he hasn't swung a bat much and is still nursing his injury. His ability to take walks always helps. It also depends if he has that eye of the tiger that Frank needs to get himself going.

Fake Chet Lemon
04-28-2005, 09:11 AM
I've felt from the start we will not win the division without him back strong in the first half of this season. Even with our fast start, I'll stick to that. Besides his power and on base percentage, his ability to drive up a starters pitch count is also missed. He is a presence in the lineup that makes everyone around him better.

Uncle_Patrick
04-28-2005, 09:11 AM
Its been my observation that, even in the past few years, when Frank plays well, the Sox do well. He gets walks, he gets hits. I think that things will only get better once Frank is healthy and back on the team.

SSN721
04-28-2005, 09:13 AM
I think Frank woul dhave helped with the middle of the order, at least if Carl was still in the lineup somehow as well. I think we could have lost Dye since the beginning of the season with the way he has played (minus the Cleveland game where he hit the home run). He would have been on base 40-45% of the time. I think that would have helped a bit. I would think he would have a couple more home runs then Dye, a few more hits. I would think he would have helped slightly. Although it is hard to say, since Dye would have started over Everett, but who knows how Dye would have been with Frank in the lineup too, it would have changed the team dynamic I think, very hard to say how different, better or worse the team would be.

voodoochile
04-28-2005, 09:38 AM
I don't know how much he'll help us right after he comes back considering he hasn't swung a bat much and is still nursing his injury. His ability to take walks always helps. It also depends if he has that eye of the tiger that Frank needs to get himself going.

He has been batting. He hasn't been running.

Knockoutinthepar
04-28-2005, 09:44 AM
At this point, I think Carl would have hurt us less than Dye, had he been in the outfield since day one. Thomas is a necessity for this team if its ever going to see the playoffs.

samram
04-28-2005, 09:45 AM
Frank is very important for this season. He will stabilize the middle of the lineup by getting on base and increasing RBI opportunities for the other guys, as well as increasing opposing pitcher pitch counts. He's the best player in team history, they need him.

Dan H
04-28-2005, 09:54 AM
The team definately needs the offense he provides, but the key still will be the starting pitching. And as always, some kind of trade will need to be made.

jabrch
04-28-2005, 09:57 AM
How much does Frank matter?

When I hear questions like that it makes me wonder if some people ever actually saw Frank play. OF COURSE FRANK WOULD MATTER A TON.

Flight #24
04-28-2005, 10:21 AM
Who needs an all-star caliber hitter?

Seriously - how anyone can watch the guys at the top of the order conssitently get on base and the guys in the middle struggle and ask a question like this is beyond me.

The Sox had the leadoff man on 4 times in the first 6 innings and scored 1 run. Their 3-4-5 guys were 2-10 with 2 GIDPs and 2 BBs. Frank gets us at least one more run this game.

downstairs
04-28-2005, 11:30 AM
When I hear questions like that it makes me wonder if some people ever actually saw Frank play. OF COURSE FRANK WOULD MATTER A TON.

Of course. I was just asking in light of the awesome start. Obviously we can't rely on constant 16-6 runs, but the team has done all this without Frank.

So, I think its just an interesting question on how *much* better we're going to be... or, are we going to be *great* with or without him.

I am Frank's biggest fan, don't get me wrong.

batmanZoSo
04-28-2005, 11:38 AM
The team definately needs the offense he provides, but the key still will be the starting pitching. And as always, some kind of trade will need to be made.

I would like a dominant closer. That's what'll make this good bullpen a great one. Go for the jugular. This is a team that is going to need a lot of bullpen holds so the offense can manufacture that one winning run they need. We can see that already, and the pen so far has done a wonderful job. But I'd like the insurace that it'll stay that way or get even better. If you make Shingo a setup man, that eliminates the C-B-C, therefore making Marte, Hermanson and Vizcaino even more valuable as bridge guys rather than relying on them to get the final out.

harwar
04-28-2005, 11:45 AM
The other teams in our division would love to never see Frank in the middle of the line-up again.
When hes' healthy and playing well,it makes it so much more difficult for the pitchers to make a plan against us.
However;I'm beginning to worry that he might be out much longer that we thought(till around the all star break maybe)
I mean if he still can't even run.
I'd give almost anything to see him back healthy and strong and sharp.
That being said,Carl has done everything and more that has been asked of him,i mean the guy has a great attitude,always hustles,and never gives up.
We need Frank AND Carl batting back-to-back.

ondafarm
04-28-2005, 11:48 AM
Frank is very important for this season. He will stabilize the middle of the lineup by getting on base and increasing RBI opportunities for the other guys, as well as increasing opposing pitcher pitch counts. He's the best player in team history, they need him.

I agree. I think Frank's ability to force higher pitch counts and get opposing starters out of the game earlier helps a lot more than most people realize. He also seems adept at driving in those critical runs. That plus his intimidating prescence in the batter's box never hurt one bit. Can you imagine if Harden had hit him on purpose instead of Carl? (I know, Froemming would have thrown Frank out for looking cross eyed at the guy.)

RKMeibalane
04-28-2005, 11:55 AM
He has been batting. He hasn't been running.

Thank you. It seems a number of posters are under the impression that Frank's hitting is the reason he is not in the lineup. This is not the case. Technically, Frank could have played starting on Opening Day, but he is being held out of action because the Sox don't want him to play station-to-station on the basepaths. That is why he is not in the lineup.

And, just for clarification, what I have written about is, more or less, straight from Herm Schneider and Frank himself. That means it's fact, not the "Frank's career is over" bull**** the media keeps spewing out.

Finally, I am getting tired of having this dicussion. Everyone here knows that Frank is still this team's best hitter, and that the Sox are better off with him than without him. Everyone also knows that the Sox need everyone healthy in order to reach the postseason. Let's focus on the big picture and stop debating over something that is beyond question.

RKMeibalane
04-28-2005, 11:55 AM
When I hear questions like that it makes me wonder if some people ever actually saw Frank play. OF COURSE FRANK WOULD MATTER A TON.

Thank you, again. Why is this even a question in people's minds? Sheesh!

jabrch
04-28-2005, 11:57 AM
Of course. I was just asking in light of the awesome start. Obviously we can't rely on constant 16-6 runs, but the team has done all this without Frank.

So, I think its just an interesting question on how *much* better we're going to be... or, are we going to be *great* with or without him.

I am Frank's biggest fan, don't get me wrong.

RKMeibalane is Frank's biggest fan. I don't think you could come remotely close to him! :) Seriously - I understand. My answer is that we would be much better with him. Would our record be any better? Hard to imagine it, but I guess it is entirely possible. Everett has been a nice replacement, but he isn't Frank. They key is that going forward we can't count on winning such a high % of our 1 run games. Frank could really help in many of those.

voodoochile
04-28-2005, 12:12 PM
RKMeibalane is Frank's biggest fan. I don't think you could come remotely close to him! :) Seriously - I understand. My answer is that we would be much better with him. Would our record be any better? Hard to imagine it, but I guess it is entirely possible. Everett has been a nice replacement, but he isn't Frank. They key is that going forward we can't count on winning such a high % of our 1 run games. Frank could really help in many of those.

And Frank gives the team options with respect to the Dye situation without having to go looking for a new player.

Baby Fisk
04-28-2005, 12:18 PM
Thank you, again. Why is this even a question in people's minds? Sheesh!
What's sad is that Frank will likely be remembered more for negative things than for what he achieved on the field. Bad attitude, injuries, all those selfish walks... If he gets no respect now, I can't see that changing after he retires. At least we can rest assured that Frank won't treat the world to whiny, self-promoting BS like Chicago baseball legend Ron Santo.

:santo
"Please let me be in the Hall of Fame! Pretty please! I want it so badly! Come on! Come onnnnnnnnnnnn...."

gosox41
04-28-2005, 12:29 PM
I wonder:

1. How much better (worse?) we'd be right now if Frank were healthy since game 1?

2. When he does come back, does that help us a lot?

There's been little talk of missing him, obviously, because of our outstanding play. But the classic ChiSox argument has always been "you'll be good only if Frank is healthy and playing well."

He helps a ton. Whoever underestimates what a healthy Frank Thomas can add to the lineup doesn't know much about baseball, and that goes for Ozzie who would even consider putting Frank on the bench.

Any time a team gets a player that can have a .400 OBP it has to help, especially with this team and their anemic OBP. Add the huge power and the ability to actually work account and this team is that much better with Frank.


Bob

havelj
04-28-2005, 12:47 PM
Huge.

When he comes back, the outfield and lineup will be realigned.

CF-Podsednick
2B-Iguchi
DH-Frank
1B-Konerko
LF-Everett
RF-Rowand
C-A.J.
3B-Crede
SS-Uribe

daveeym
04-28-2005, 01:00 PM
Thank you. It seems a number of posters are under the impression that Frank's hitting is the reason he is not in the lineup. This is not the case. Technically, Frank could have played starting on Opening Day, but he is being held out of action because the Sox don't want him to play station-to-station on the basepaths. That is why he is not in the lineup.

And, just for clarification, what I have written about is, more or less, straight from Herm Schneider and Frank himself. That means it's fact, not the "Frank's career is over" bull**** the media keeps spewing out.

Finally, I am getting tired of having this dicussion. Everyone here knows that Frank is still this team's best hitter, and that the Sox are better off with him than without him. Everyone also knows that the Sox need everyone healthy in order to reach the postseason. Let's focus on the big picture and stop debating over something that is beyond question. Go drink some more kool-aid. He can play right now but they don't want him clogging the basebaths, sheesh. Him taking batting practice is not the same as live in-game pitching.

I think what you're missing is not others saying he can't hit, but that he's not healthy and all indications point to him not being healthy for quite a bit more time. Give me a healthy frank any day, but as it stands right now he's no improvement because he's not healthy and from the sounds of it still a couple months from getting there.

Fake Chet Lemon
04-28-2005, 01:12 PM
I would like a dominant closer. That's what'll make this good bullpen a great one. Go for the jugular. This is a team that is going to need a lot of bullpen holds so the offense can manufacture that one winning run they need. We can see that already, and the pen so far has done a wonderful job. But I'd like the insurace that it'll stay that way or get even better. If you make Shingo a setup man, that eliminates the C-B-C, therefore making Marte, Hermanson and Vizcaino even more valuable as bridge guys rather than relying on them to get the final out.

I don't think the budget can afford one of those. I see Vizcaino becoming one of those for the way he gets guys out from both sides of the plate. If Kenny also thinks that may be a year or so off, probably no chance he'll add one. It would be nice though.

Epark84
04-28-2005, 02:40 PM
I wonder:

1. How much better (worse?) we'd be right now if Frank were healthy since game 1?

2. When he does come back, does that help us a lot?

There's been little talk of missing him, obviously, because of our outstanding play. But the classic ChiSox argument has always been "you'll be good only if Frank is healthy and playing well."

it all depends on what frank comes back.

tstrike2000
04-28-2005, 02:49 PM
Thank you. It seems a number of posters are under the impression that Frank's hitting is the reason he is not in the lineup. This is not the case. Technically, Frank could have played starting on Opening Day, but he is being held out of action because the Sox don't want him to play station-to-station on the basepaths. That is why he is not in the lineup.

I agree completely. I know he's taken batting practice, I was referring that he hasn't faced major league pitching in a while and will need a little time to adjust. We need his bat badly and even if it does take some at bats to start to get comfortable. His presence in the lineup is desparately needed because of what he does bring to the table with his ability to take pitches and muscle out hits on bad pitches. Even in an off year for him, he still puts up numbers that are career numbers for most other guys.

Bobbo35
04-28-2005, 03:31 PM
When I hear questions like that it makes me wonder if some people ever actually saw Frank play. OF COURSE FRANK WOULD MATTER A TON.

Ya, I do not know how people can question whether or not Frank would be an asset when he gets back. The man has been the mainstay of this team for years. I think it changes the makeup of the lineup bigtime.

We need you back BigFrank

GO Sox

MRKARNO
04-28-2005, 03:55 PM
Frank matters about as much as any player on this team does. When he comes back, our lineup will be instantly changed for the better. He gets on base more consistantly than anyone else. He hits more consistantly than anyone else. He has more power than anyone else. He works the pitcher better than anyone else. He changes the game more than anyone else by getting the hitters who hit before him better pitches to hit (Mike Caruso anyone?). Frank's early return, combined with continued good starting pitching makes this team one of the favorites in the AL IMO.