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DrCrawdad
04-27-2005, 09:47 PM
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site181/2005/0427/AS01_227.jpg

Forgive and forget

The front page of Wednesday's Oakland Tribune featured a photograph of catcher Chris Widger tagging Mark Kotsay's foot in front of home plate, although home plate umpire Bruce Froemming ruled Kotsay safe. That call allowed Oakland to tie the game 3-3 in the fifth inning Tuesday night.

"The umpires are human beings and will make mistakes," Sox manager Ozzie Guillen said before Wednesday's game. "They're going to make mistakes."

Froemming, the crew chief, maintained there was "no carryover" when home plate umpire Hunter Wendelstedt ejected Guillen for the second time in as many seasons in the ninth inning Wednesday for arguing a call.

"I respect Ozzie and his players," Froemming told a pool reporter. "But if anyone gets out of line—anybody—they're just like anybody else." - Mark Gonzales, Chicago Cubune

[cough]B.S.[cough]

mealfred13
04-27-2005, 09:50 PM
Now all the people who said he was safe, and don't blame the ump, blah blah blah can collectively KMA.

I notice it was Froemming who said there's no "carryover". I guess Wendelstedt didn't get the memo.

DrCrawdad
04-27-2005, 09:53 PM
Now all the people who said he was safe, and don't blame the ump, blah blah blah can collectively KMA.

I notice it was Froemming who said there's no "carryover". I guess Wendelstedt didn't get the memo.

No doubt this has been discussed already, but was it Wendelstedt who called the balk on Tuesday?

gobears1987
04-27-2005, 09:58 PM
I said it once and I'll sait it again. Wendelstedt has to die!

Viva Medias B's
04-27-2005, 10:05 PM
Froemming is really one to talk about people getting out of line. Wasn't a few years ago when he used an anti-Semitic slur to describe a female MLB official?

mealfred13
04-27-2005, 10:44 PM
No doubt this has been discussed already, but was it Wendelstedt who called the balk on Tuesday?

I wanna say it was a different, gray-haired ump, but I really don't know for sure. I do recall hearing Hawk and DJ say that 2 of the umps called it in quick succession, and I'm pretty sure one of them wasn't Froemming.

Viva Medias B's
04-27-2005, 10:47 PM
I wanna say it was a different, gray-haired ump, but I really don't know for sure. I do recall hearing Hawk and DJ say that 2 of the umps called it in quick succession, and I'm pretty sure one of them wasn't Froemming.

Jerry Meals called the balk on Marte.

NDSox12
04-27-2005, 11:18 PM
Jerry Meals called the balk on Marte.

Let's just say it was a group effort by the umpires in this series!

DrCrawdad
04-28-2005, 05:22 AM
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site181/2005/0427/AS01_227.jpg


But there it was, for all to see Wednesday, as the main picture on the cover of the Oakland Tribune's sports section showed that Sox catcher Chris Widger did tag out Mark Kotsay in the fifth inning on a play at the plate. Froemming called Kotsay safe, and the A's went on to a four-run inning.

"That was a big play,'' said Widger, who thought he had made the tag in time and now had the proof.

Sox manager Ozzie Guillen kept a copy of the newspaper and planned to have a team representative send it to the major-league offices in New York to be reviewed.- Doug Padilla, Chicago Sun-Times

Sending it to MLB offices where it will be promptly thrown out.

RedHeadPaleHoser
04-28-2005, 06:54 AM
[QUOTE=DrCrawdad]http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site181/2005/0427/AS01_227.jpg


What I like the most about it? Widger doing his job - blocking the plate with his foot - fundamentals. Just like Crede with that robbery at 3rd a few games ago. Froemming's got issues with the White Sox - let's see if this pattern continues.

BaseballTonyght
04-28-2005, 07:15 AM
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site181/2005/0427/AS01_227.jpg

Yup... safe at home plate. That about sums up this Oakland series. The most encouraging thing for me is the way the players reacted. A few hours after the game was over they're just ready to, as Crede said, "file it away" and move on to the next series.

Meanwhile, what a well timed off-day.

ma_deuce
04-28-2005, 07:21 AM
When I saw this...

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site181/2005/0427/AS01_227.jpg

I did this...

:chunks

Realist
04-28-2005, 07:25 AM
In all honesty, we got robbed on this play but it was a bang bang play that coulda went either way. Great play by Widger to block the plate though (although my bro believes otherwise).

I'm yet to be convinced that we weren't given a gift on that play at home with A.J. and Marte in KC. - although I love the call! :D:

DrCrawdad
04-28-2005, 07:57 AM
In all honesty, we got robbed on this play but it was a bang bang play that coulda went either way. Great play by Widger to block the plate though (although my bro believes otherwise).

I'm yet to be convinced that we weren't given a gift on that play at home with A.J. and Marte in KC. - although I love the call! :D:

If this were the sole bad call in this series, it would be easier to take, but when you consider all the poor calls it's hard for me to chalk it up as, 'You win some you lose some...'

Realist
04-28-2005, 08:00 AM
If this were the sole bad call in this series, it would be easier to take, but when you consider all the poor calls it's hard for me to chalk it up as, 'You win some you lose some...'

When you're right, you're right. You're exactly right.

Meixner007
04-28-2005, 08:04 AM
What ticks me off the most is Froemming was overweight, I mean out of position. It's one thing if you blow a call. It's another thing if you blow a call because you're where you're supposed to be.

Iguana775
04-28-2005, 08:16 AM
Damn, that's TERRIBLE! :angry: :angry: :whatever:

Uncle_Patrick
04-28-2005, 08:36 AM
[QUOTE=DrCrawdad
Froemming's got issues with the White Sox - let's see if this pattern continues.

What's Froemming's issues with the Sox? Someone refresh my memory. I know Wendelstedt's history with Ozzie, but what's the deal with Froemming?

Mickster
04-28-2005, 09:15 AM
This picture tells the REAL story......

JKryl
04-28-2005, 10:54 AM
Occasional mistakes on the part of the ump are part of baseball, and it's the human element that keeps it interesting, but enough is enough. When the mistakes come from the same individuals, they need to be re-educated or penalized. Is it MLB, or the umpires CBA that keeps these guys from getting any official criticism? Right now, the only negative thing that can happen is that they may not get picked for post season games.

Ol' No. 2
04-28-2005, 10:58 AM
This picture tells the REAL story......We need about a dozen signs made up of this for the next time that clown comes to Chicago.

mweflen
04-28-2005, 11:00 AM
So essentially, we have 5 injured guys and two losses to show for our Oakland travesty. And they warn US about retaliation...

Lip Man 1
04-28-2005, 11:17 AM
Actually the umpire / discipline situation has gotten much better since MLB took it over, got the then existing umpires to fire Richie Phillips and consolidated both league units into one.

Obviously still a lot of room to grow however. I don't know what the rules are for weight with umpires. I do know however that video is sent to the MLB office on umpires by the clubs very often for review. George Steinbrenner makes a habit of it according to the book The Lords Of The Realm by John Helyar.

Lip

mweflen
04-28-2005, 11:22 AM
I wish they'd start using QuasTech to demote umpires for chronically crappy ball-strike calls. And I wish they'd reprimand or fine umps for errors like the out call two nights ago.

Soxzilla
04-28-2005, 11:26 AM
Actually the umpire / discipline situation has gotten much better since MLB took it over, got the then existing umpires to fire Richie Phillips and consolidated both league units into one.

Obviously still a lot of room to grow however. I don't know what the rules are for weight with umpires. I do know however that video is sent to the MLB office on umpires by the clubs very often for review. George Steinbrenner makes a habit of it according to the book The Lords Of The Realm by John Helyar.

Lip

Lip, do you happen to know if they use the 'referee control center' like the NFL does?

If you're unsure what I'm talking about, I saw this segment on television that showed this small unit that operates every Sunday and Monday during the football games and reviews all of the close plays and calls, and lets the officials know if they were right or wrong after the game is over. Then they do evaluations on each official on how they are performing and whether they are getting the calls right.

Then again, it might have been just for instant replay cases, which would probably consolidate this type of operation to just football.

....And if they did, Hunter's ass would have been canned years ago.

Why can't kerwin danley just do all of our games?

Mickster
04-28-2005, 11:26 AM
We need about a dozen signs made up of this for the next time that clown comes to Chicago.

have to give one of them to the M&M guy in the scout seats.... :wink:

Lip Man 1
04-28-2005, 11:58 AM
Soxilla:

I know what you were talking about, I saw a story in S.I. on it. Honestly I don't know although I would assume some type of review situation is in place. Sandy Alderson used to be in charge of the MLB umpires since the consolidation, he just left to take a job in the Padres organization so I don't know who is running the umpires right now.

My own personal opinion is that despite their comments Wendlestadt has in in for Ozzie because he had the 'gall,' to publicly say Hunter was lying in his report to MLB last August. That is something not easily 'forgotten' about. Given that Hunter twice used the F word to Ozzie yesreday, something an umpire is NEVER supposed to do, there is obviously a resentment of him and worse it is spilling out in his calls.

Lip

skobabe8
04-28-2005, 12:03 PM
Froemings safe call on that play was about the most "unsure of myself' call I'd ever seen.

OEO Magglio
04-28-2005, 12:09 PM
In all honesty, we got robbed on this play but it was a bang bang play that coulda went either way. Great play by Widger to block the plate though (although my bro believes otherwise).

I'm yet to be convinced that we weren't given a gift on that play at home with A.J. and Marte in KC. - although I love the call! :D:
I don't necessarily agree with that, you could tell right when the play was happening that Kotsay was out, why did Froemming get it wrong?? Because he's to fricken fat to move over a few steps and get in the right position, he was behind widger and couldn't see the play develop. Absolutely terrible.

Soxzilla
04-28-2005, 12:48 PM
Soxilla:

I know what you were talking about, I saw a story in S.I. on it. Honestly I don't know although I would assume some type of review situation is in place. Sandy Alderson used to be in charge of the MLB umpires since the consolidation, he just left to take a job in the Padres organization so I don't know who is running the umpires right now.

My own personal opinion is that despite their comments Wendlestadt has in in for Ozzie because he had the 'gall,' to publicly say Hunter was lying in his report to MLB last August. That is something not easily 'forgotten' about. Given that Hunter twice used the F word to Ozzie yesreday, something an umpire is NEVER supposed to do, there is obviously a resentment of him and worse it is spilling out in his calls.

Lip

Thanks for the answer. I'd be interested in finding what they DO do in order to evaluate the job these umps do.

Realist
04-29-2005, 06:36 AM
I don't necessarily agree with that, you could tell right when the play was happening that Kotsay was out, why did Froemming get it wrong?? Because he's to fricken fat to move over a few steps and get in the right position, he was behind widger and couldn't see the play develop. Absolutely terrible.

Being a realist, I'll suppose I stand corrected. The Kotsay call looked like it could go either way with me. I loved the call. They really didn't show us any good camera angles that would support the call or refute it.

When Widger was blocking the plate, it looked bang bang from every different angle I saw it at, and I saw it a ton of times from different angles. My brother and I were watching the game together and we had different takes on each replay and had to see it 6 times until we agreed on what the call should be. That ain't easy for any umpire in any sport at any time to make the call on. It really really sucks that it went against us. If it weren't for the other horsecrap calls by the umpires in the series, I wouldn't give that one play too much merit.

ode to veeck
04-29-2005, 01:14 PM
Jerry Meals called the balk on Marte.


At the game, it looked like the 3rd base ump called the balk, although White Sock, who was sitting in different seats that night told me the next day the balk was called by both 3rd and 1st base umps. He did step off the rubber, but apparently took the ball hand out of the glove

Wsoxmike59
05-01-2005, 09:39 AM
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site181/2005/0427/AS01_227.jpg



[cough]B.S.[cough]

http://cache.gettyimages.com/thumb/52719651.jpg?x=x&a=52719651&b=editorial_na&t=1 (http://javascript<b></b>:OpenChildWindow('http://editorial.gettyimages.com/source/search/details_pop.aspx?iid=52719651&cdi=0', '', 'width=640,height=500,menubar=no,resizable=yes,scr ollbars=yes,status=no,titlebar=no,toolbar=no');)

http://editorial.gettyimages.com/source/search/details_pop.aspx?iid=52719651&cdi=0

OAKLAND , CA - APRIL 27: Joe Crede #24 of the Chicago White Sox is hit by a pitch against the Oakland Athletics on April 27, 2005 at McAfee Coliseum in Oakland, California. Crede was called with interference on the play. (Photo by Jed Jacobsohn/Getty Images)

Wsoxmike59
05-01-2005, 09:52 AM
Being a realist, I'll suppose I stand corrected. The Kotsay call looked like it could go either way with me. I loved the call. They really didn't show us any good camera angles that would support the call or refute it.

When Widger was blocking the plate, it looked bang bang from every different angle I saw it at, and I saw it a ton of times from different angles. My brother and I were watching the game together and we had different takes on each replay and had to see it 6 times until we agreed on what the call should be. That ain't easy for any umpire in any sport at any time to make the call on. It really really sucks that it went against us. If it weren't for the other horsecrap calls by the umpires in the series, I wouldn't give that one play too much merit.

I was watching the game and when I saw the throw coming home I thought to myself.....no way are they going to get him. Then Pods' throw was right at Widger's shoe tops and I yelled "THEY GOT HIM!" but it such a bang bang play I wasn't positive.......until I saw the replay.

On one of the angles they showed, you could see Mark Buehrle backing up the play and he raises his arms as if to say "Yeah we got him!"

That's when I knew Kotsay was really out and that the ump blew the play. Then the photo showed up online the next day and the Cub fan at work (let's call him Del Vero) who told me I was a cry-baby because of the umping in the series...

I said....no not a cry baby....just I have a valid complaint. The umpiring sucked (as the photographic evidence prooves) and the Sox not only had to play the A's.....they had to go up against umpires incompetence as well.

I just ask for a level playing field. The weight of Hunter Wendelstedt tips that advantage over to the opposition every time we get stuck with that jerk of an ump for a series.