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Lip Man 1
04-26-2005, 11:56 AM
Someone recently posted that this 2005 Sox team is reminding him of the 1959 club with strong pitching, good defense and good speed. The 1959 Sox won 35 one run games while the 2005 Sox are so far, 9-1 in that category. I can certainly see some comparisons.

But to me this club reminds me a great deal of the 1990 Sox club that shocked baseball with 94 wins.

That club was led in home runs by Carlton Fisk with 18 and in RBI's by the late Ivan Calderon with 75. They had good starting pitching and a light's out bullpen (remind you of anyone?). They also were dismissed as a bad team that probably would finish in 6th or 7th in the Western Division.

To me the biggest comparison is in how that club won games and how it relates (so far) to this team.

For example, the Sox have won games this year on an opposite field double by someone named Pablo Ozuna. They have won on a home run by someone named Chris Widger, his first in 'only' five years. They have been winning with non household names in crazy ways.

Now go back to 1990, remember:

*A game with Baltimore, Mark Williamson on the mound, Ron Kittle at first. Ground ball...Kittle sticks out his hip (a la Reggie in the 1977 World Series) and deflects the throw. The ball bounces back to Cal Ripken who makes a whirling throw to home plate. But the throw is high and bounces off the catcher's glove. (Chris Hoiles?) End result? The Sox score two runs.

*A game with the Yankees. Lance McCullers throws a wild pitch allowing Lance Johnson to score the winning run.

*That same series with New York, different game. Twice Deion Sanders almost pulls home runs out of the first row of seats in Comiskey Park. Both times TV replays show the 'potential' for fan interference. Neither time is it called. Sanders goes crazy...Sox win.

*Calderon, on his own, while hitting 3rd in the lineup, lays down a suicide squeeze bunt with Ron Karkovice scoring a much needed insurance run against the Tigers.

*And of course the ultimate. Sox get no-hit by the Yankees Andy Hawkins on July 1, 1990 (80th Anniversary of the opening of Comiskey Park) but the Sox win 4-0 thanks to back to back errors on fly balls by Jim Leyritz and Jesse Barfield.

1990 was a magical summer, a la 1977... in both cases it went by much to quickly. This year has the potential to turn into another one.

Lip

mike squires
04-26-2005, 12:03 PM
90 was special. If it weren't for those Damn Oakland A's. We hung in there and hung in there but they were just too much. Won't forget the Lee Stevens homerun to straight away center in the 9th that ultimatly did us in. I think we all knew it wasn't going to happen but it broke our backs for sure. Lance Johnson just hanging there on that fence with Thiggy on the mound.

I hope we keep it up. Oakland is NOT in our division anymore!!!:D:

Hangar18
04-26-2005, 12:04 PM
I was thinking the 2005 SOX reminded me of the SOX of 2000 (also ignored by Media til the all-star break), but Lip your right, this team has more in common with the 1990 team. I had written those clowns off in 1988, and watched them sparingly in 1989. But at the end of the 89 season, they played strong down the stretch and I was very curious about them in the beginning of 1990.
What a fun year that was, winning some of the most improbable ways ever.
I remember a late april game, Scott Fletcher on 3rd with the winning run, SOX had staged a miracle rally, and he scored on a FlyBall out that wasnt that deep, but he ran so hard, so fast, the throw was slightly offline and he SCORED to win the game ...... the SOX mobbed him at the plate, old Comiskey
had about 10,000 people there, but they sounded like 43,000, and Tom Paciorek yelling out they won, as surprised and happy as everyone there, and
him saying "Who are these guys!!??" (which became theyre marketing slogan shortly after)

Frater Perdurabo
04-26-2005, 12:05 PM
1990's team didn't have near the starting pitching as the 2005 edition, but otherwise the comparison is valid.

A turn back the clock day to 1990 might be a fitting promotion this year. Somebody e-mail Brooks...

mike squires
04-26-2005, 12:11 PM
Ah, Scotty Fletcher. I loved the way he played the game. Kind of a Pete Rose type guy. Hard nosed and played tough. I remember Torborg pulling back Fletcher by his jersey during an argument. He is an underrated Sox player for sure...Was lucky to get his autograph during the Sox/Cub reunion af few years back.

jabrch
04-26-2005, 12:12 PM
the 90 team called up Frank Thomas from the minors after the all-star break and he made a huge difference in that team. (with all due respect to Carlos Martinez, Steve Lyons and Ron Kittle)

Hopefully we can call Frank Thomas up in May and get the same sort of boost. Respect to Carl for what he has done so far - but he is no Frank Thomas.

Palehose13
04-26-2005, 12:16 PM
Lip-

That's an interesting comparison and I am going to take it a little further...

The manager of the 1990 team was a mentor of the current manager.

Brian26
04-26-2005, 12:18 PM
I remember a late april game, Scott Fletcher on 3rd with the winning run, SOX had staged a miracle rally, and he scored on a FlyBall out that wasnt that deep, but he ran so hard, so fast, the throw was slightly offline and he SCORED to win the game ...... the SOX mobbed him at the plate, old Comiskey had about 10,000 people there, but they sounded like 43,000, and Tom Paciorek yelling out they won, as surprised and happy as everyone there, and him saying "Who are these guys!!??" (which became theyre marketing slogan shortly after)

I remember that exact game!

MRKARNO
04-26-2005, 12:20 PM
2001 Seattle Mariners

Well we do have the Freddy Garcia factor going on. We're a lot more like them then some might think, except that our offense is a less patient one that will probably score 100 less runs.

Brian26
04-26-2005, 12:20 PM
I think we all knew it wasn't going to happen but it broke our backs for sure. Lance Johnson just hanging there on that fence with Thiggy on the mound.

I can still picture Lance hanging there with the back of his jersey "1" to the camera up against that dark green centerfield wall. That was a backbreaker.

Palehose13
04-26-2005, 12:22 PM
I remember that exact game!

Me too. The summer of 1990 was when I feel obsessively in love with the Sox. Of course I was a fan before, but 1990 made me a RABID fan. I was 15 that year living in La Porte county, Indiana. Since I couldn't drive yet and was stuck in BFE, I watched the Sox every single night. It's getting to be that way this year. Hell, I left my friends at the bar at 9pm so I could go home and watch the game! :o:

daveeym
04-26-2005, 12:47 PM
I was thinking the 2005 SOX reminded me of the SOX of 2000 (also ignored by Media til the all-star break), but Lip your right, this team has more in common with the 1990 team. I had written those clowns off in 1988, and watched them sparingly in 1989. But at the end of the 89 season, they played strong down the stretch and I was very curious about them in the beginning of 1990.
I've been waiting for this thread all morning - These sox do have 1 thing in common with the 2000 team, a general steamrolling of opponents, a sense that they can win every game and OPPONENTS NERVOUS TO PLAY THEM. You can see opponents asses puckering as the season progresses.

-Watch out all they need is a few runs
-Pods is gonna steal
-gooch is gonna steal
-don't make a mistake to konerko or everett
-Man if we don't score here that staff will shut us down.

Zito was ROLLING last night and the pressure got to him. Defenses are nervous as hell against this team. You already see teams going "not again" as the sox have over the last few years against minny. With how this staff is going opponents have the smallest margin of error.

Palehose13
04-26-2005, 12:52 PM
Wasn't that the year that the "Pick to Click" was started because it seemed like there was a different "hero" each game (much like this year as Lip has already stated)?

BTW...nice to see ya' optimistic, Lip. Welcome aboard! :wink:

batmanZoSo
04-26-2005, 12:56 PM
1990's team didn't have near the starting pitching as the 2005 edition, but otherwise the comparison is valid.

A turn back the clock day to 1990 might be a fitting promotion this year. Somebody e-mail Brooks...

The 1993 team didn't even have a rotation like this 1-5. And that team was good enough to win it all.

Flight #24
04-26-2005, 12:57 PM
Wasn't that the year that the "Pick to Click" was started because it seemed like there was a different "hero" each game (much like this year as Lip has already stated)?

BTW...nice to see ya' optimistic, Lip. Welcome aboard! :wink:

If you'd asked me which of these would be most unlikely: Garland 4-0 with a WHIP under 1, Crede batting .300+, Sox 16-4, Lip being positive.....well, it would have been a tough call!

j/k big guy, it's just nice to see that side of you now & then!

WhteSox725
04-26-2005, 01:20 PM
I was thinking the 2005 SOX reminded me of the SOX of 2000 (also ignored by Media til the all-star break), but Lip your right, this team has more in common with the 1990 team. I had written those clowns off in 1988, and watched them sparingly in 1989. But at the end of the 89 season, they played strong down the stretch and I was very curious about them in the beginning of 1990.
What a fun year that was, winning some of the most improbable ways ever.
I remember a late april game, Scott Fletcher on 3rd with the winning run, SOX had staged a miracle rally, and he scored on a FlyBall out that wasnt that deep, but he ran so hard, so fast, the throw was slightly offline and he SCORED to win the game ...... the SOX mobbed him at the plate, old Comiskey
had about 10,000 people there, but they sounded like 43,000, and Tom Paciorek yelling out they won, as surprised and happy as everyone there, and
him saying "Who are these guys!!??" (which became theyre marketing slogan shortly after)

I was at that game. They were playing Kansas City I believe.

fquaye149
04-26-2005, 02:29 PM
If you'd asked me which of these would be most unlikely: Garland 4-0 with a WHIP under 1, Crede batting .300+, Sox 16-4, Lip being positive.....well, it would have been a tough call!

j/k big guy, it's just nice to see that side of you now & then!

The feel-good thread of the summer!!!

jdm2662
04-26-2005, 02:32 PM
The 1990 team was just who I was thinking as well. That was by far the most fun I've ever had as a Sox fan. They were so dreadful in the late 80s, and the 1989 season was hard to take. Yes, they did win their first eight games after the All-Star break, but they were so far in last place, it didn't even matter. I loved the fact that the won without hitting a lot of home runs, and proved to the world there is more to the game than Hrs. What sucks was that the Sox actually went like 8-4 against Oakland that year. Unfortuantely, the whole league couldn't stop them. Had they been in the AL East, they would've won the division by six games. They don't have to chase Oakland this time, so I hope it continues.
________
GRANNY SEX (http://www.****tube.com/categories/23/granny/videos/1)

mikehuff
04-26-2005, 02:51 PM
I made a comment this morning about Wimpy shaving his head after the 8 game win streak. Wasn't that in 1990?

jdm2662
04-26-2005, 04:05 PM
I made a comment this morning about Wimpy shaving his head after the 8 game win streak. Wasn't that in 1990?

1989. The White Sox, who were like who knows how many games in last place at the All-Star break, won their first eight games in after it. Wimpy said he shave his head after the Sox won 7 in a row... Sure enough, he kept his word. The only highlight of that dreadful season.
________
Bbw Facehumpers (http://www.****tube.com/categories/209/facehumpers/videos/1)

SpammySosa
04-26-2005, 04:28 PM
Someone recently posted that this 2005 Sox team is reminding him of the 1959 club with strong pitching, good defense and good speed. The 1959 Sox won 35 one run games while the 2005 Sox are so far, 9-1 in that category. I can certainly see some comparisons.

But to me this club reminds me a great deal of the 1990 Sox club that shocked baseball with 94 wins.

That club was led in home runs by Carlton Fisk with 18 and in RBI's by the late Ivan Calderon with 75. They had good starting pitching and a light's out bullpen (remind you of anyone?). They also were dismissed as a bad team that probably would finish in 6th or 7th in the Western Division.

To me the biggest comparison is in how that club won games and how it relates (so far) to this team.

For example, the Sox have won games this year on an opposite field double by someone named Pablo Ozuna. They have won on a home run by someone named Chris Widger, his first in 'only' five years. They have been winning with non household names in crazy ways.

Now go back to 1990, remember:

*A game with Baltimore, Mark Williamson on the mound, Ron Kittle at first. Ground ball...Kittle sticks out his hip (a la Reggie in the 1977 World Series) and deflects the throw. The ball bounces back to Cal Ripken who makes a whirling throw to home plate. But the throw is high and bounces off the catcher's glove. (Chris Hoiles?) End result? The Sox score two runs.

*A game with the Yankees. Lance McCullers throws a wild pitch allowing Lance Johnson to score the winning run.

*That same series with New York, different game. Twice Deion Sanders almost pulls home runs out of the first row of seats in Comiskey Park. Both times TV replays show the 'potential' for fan interference. Neither time is it called. Sanders goes crazy...Sox win.

*Calderon, on his own, while hitting 3rd in the lineup, lays down a suicide squeeze bunt with Ron Karkovice scoring a much needed insurance run against the Tigers.

*And of course the ultimate. Sox get no-hit by the Yankees Andy Hawkins on July 1, 1990 (80th Anniversary of the opening of Comiskey Park) but the Sox win 4-0 thanks to back to back errors on fly balls by Jim Leyritz and Jesse Barfield.

1990 was a magical summer, a la 1977... in both cases it went by much to quickly. This year has the potential to turn into another one.

Lip

Wow,a long post and not once did you reference your WSI interviews!:wink: Seriously though-some very well made points,Lip!

Lip Man 1
04-26-2005, 04:41 PM
A few points:

That 1990 starting rotation while perhaps not as deep as 2005 wasn't chopped liver. Jack McDowell, Greg Hibbard, Melido Perez and the surprise of all Eric King (11-5). Then Alex Fernandez came on board in August. You could do worse.

I think the game y'all are talking about was the game against the Royals on May 13th. The Sox trailed 3-2 in the last on the 8th when Bo Jackson playing center field misplayed a hit by Fletcher that turned into a triple. He'd score the tying run.

Then in the 9th inning with Fletcher on 3rd base, manager John Wathan walked both Carlos Martinez and Ozzie Guillen to set up a force. He brought an outfielder in to the infield (five infielders) but Lance Johnson hit a fly ball to left and Fletcher beat the throw bowling over the catcher, then was almost crushed to death in a bear hug by Ivan Calderon.

For those you don't know about it, here's Scotty's interview link with WSI: (wink, wink Spammy!)

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=11&id=2673

Lip