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View Full Version : How long do we stick with Dye?


CaptUSN
04-26-2005, 10:38 AM
He is not producing in the middle of line-up... Anderson is hitting over .340 in Triple A...

CaptUSN
04-26-2005, 10:41 AM
He is not producing in the middle of the line-up... Our inability to hit with runners in scoring position is eventually going to catch up... Meanwhile, Anderson is hitting .340 in Triple A...

ode to veeck
04-26-2005, 10:41 AM
wayyy too early to ask that question, we're not even one month into the season yet ... Jermaine should settle down shortly, he's been a consistent producer last few years. Better question for Dye is what adjustments might he consider

soxfan43
04-26-2005, 10:42 AM
It's only april. BUt if Dye is still playing horribly when Big Frank is back, I got a feeling Everett will be the RF.

Ol' No. 2
04-26-2005, 10:43 AM
He is not producing in the middle of line-up... Anderson is hitting over .340 in Triple A...A lot longer than 20 games.

Hangar18
04-26-2005, 10:43 AM
He is not producing in the middle of line-up... Anderson is hitting over .340 in Triple A...

I wish I could find my prediction on him. I stated he wont last thru mid-May
and will be benched permanently, with Carl Everett for better or worse going to RF. I did like his catch yesterday. He has lost something in his swing and
is terribly overmatched. Zito went after him and wasnt afraid. Dye did have some bad luck in his last at bat. He worked a favorable count, knowing he was going to get one good pitch to hack at, but Zito threw him a sucker pitch
fastball high and way outside, the kind you throw at rookies, and he swung and missed 3-2, then striking out on Zitos bread-and-butter pitch.

mikehuff
04-26-2005, 10:43 AM
No, no. It's not going to be Anderson. If this keeps up Timo will take his place for a few more games out there and then Everett would take his place once Frank gets back. I don't expect Anderson to make an appearance this year at all.

ode to veeck
04-26-2005, 10:43 AM
I have no idea how it happened, but looks like my post created a second duplicate thread!?!

I'll leave it to the mods to figure out which one represents the evil parallel universe attacking through the crack of a wormhole ...

CaptUSN
04-26-2005, 10:45 AM
I agree we'll wait until late May, but I never thought he was a great pick-up and we should not stick with him through thick or thin. That was the basis of the question - how long do we wait if he does not show signs of getting well above the Mendoza line?

DaleJRFan
04-26-2005, 10:45 AM
If by May 15th Dye is still hitting below .200, I stick Ozuna out there. When we reach the point in the season where rosters expand, then bring up Mr. Anderson and let them duke it out for the roster spot.

chaerulez
04-26-2005, 10:46 AM
I think Dye deserves more of a chance than just a month, if he's still hitting below .200 in June then that's a big problem.

Hangar18
04-26-2005, 10:46 AM
wayyy too early to ask that question, we're not even one month into the season yet ... Jermaine should settle down shortly, he's been a consistent producer last few years. Better question for Dye is what adjustments might he consider

Its not like hes getting good hacks on balls and is having bad luck. He looks
really bad out there offensively. He had one good at bat, end of the game against Zito and that at-bat was short lived as he swung at a terrible pitch
that wouldve had him 3-1, but instead fell to 2-2 and was a sure out at that point. Dye smacked himself in the helmet, as if knowing he just set himself
up to be struck out, which is precisely what happened moments later.
I could actually live with him in the lineup as long as hes dropped to 8 or 9.
He should not be batting 5th. Yesterday was the first time I started feeling
bad for him, you can see he just doesnt have it, and he is really down, especially after he struck himself out against Zito. I wish Ozz would drop
him in the order before he gets really down and then we lose the guy entirely.

mikehuff
04-26-2005, 10:51 AM
I could actually live with him in the lineup as long as hes dropped to 8 or 9.
He should not be batting 5th.

Exactly. These averages are starting to show something and maybe it's time for Ozzie to make some offensive adjustments. I can't belileve I'm saying it, but maybe Crede needs to move up in the order.

Frater Perdurabo
04-26-2005, 10:55 AM
Its not like hes getting good hacks on balls and is having bad luck. He looks
really bad out there offensively. He had one good at bat, end of the game against Zito and that at-bat was short lived as he swung at a terrible pitch
that wouldve had him 3-1, but instead fell to 2-2 and was a sure out at that point. Dye smacked himself in the helmet, as if knowing he just set himself
up to be struck out, which is precisely what happened moments later.
I could actually live with him in the lineup as long as hes dropped to 8 or 9.
He should not be batting 5th. Yesterday was the first time I started feeling
bad for him, you can see he just doesnt have it, and he is really down, especially after he struck himself out against Zito. I wish Ozz would drop
him in the order before he gets really down and then we lose the guy entirely.

Since I can't watch many Sox games from Texas, does anyone see any parallels between the 2005 Dye and the 2003 Konerko?

Hangar18
04-26-2005, 11:03 AM
Since I can't watch many Sox games from Texas, does anyone see any parallels between the 2005 Dye and the 2003 Konerko?


Hmmmmmmm, very interesting question. I think one guy was trying too hard,
and the other guy has just lost something in his swing ...... He looked absolutely awful game 3 of the season

LVSoxFan
04-26-2005, 11:06 AM
I'd rather see Timo or Ozuna than bring up some AAA guy. But I'm not going to give up on Dye yet; it's only been three weeks. End of May sounds fine with me. Yeah in the meantime I'd drop him in the lineup, though.

ondafarm
04-26-2005, 11:07 AM
Since I can't watch many Sox games from Texas, does anyone see any parallels between the 2005 Dye and the 2003 Konerko?

Howdy Frater (catch the FDR History Channel programs?)

To answer your question, "No." Dye has always started slow, has never hit much during the cold weather and is still being productive. He'll be fine. As long as the Sox are winning should this matter much?

DaleJRFan
04-26-2005, 11:08 AM
Since I can't watch many Sox games from Texas, does anyone see any parallels between the 2005 Dye and the 2003 Konerko?

I see parallels between 2005 Dye and the 2005 Konerko.

bigredrudy
04-26-2005, 11:12 AM
Dye has never been a great hitter but is a solid player. It's much too early to write him off. The team is built around pitching and defense. Putting Everett in the outfield will weaken the defense. Neither Thomas nor Everett should play in the field. They are both strictly DH's. Actually I prefer Everett as the DH. He gives us power from the left side and balances our lineup. Thomas is very slow , hits righthanded, and can't throw or field. In addition Thomas has always had the reputation of being a me first guy. He just not fit into the team that Ozzie and KW hve built. If it ain't broke, don't fix it

Palehose13
04-26-2005, 11:13 AM
http://www.msbaseball.com/entropybanner/frank_thomas.jpg

"Whichever OFer is doing the worst when I get back will have to make room for me."

MIgrenade
04-26-2005, 11:17 AM
I don't know if Timo or Ozuna have the arms to play right field full time. Those guys might cost us a lot of runs by letting guys move from first to third. At this point though, I'm going to have to change my opinion and say that Dye has to be moved out of the middle and Crede moved up temporarely.

Jurr
04-26-2005, 11:21 AM
Rowand should be moved into the five hole, with Dye behind him. That way, Aaron gets more protection than he has been getting, and he can get hot by feasting on fast balls.

mikehuff
04-26-2005, 11:26 AM
...does anyone see any parallels between the 2005 Dye and the 2003 Konerko?
I don't. 2003 Konkero looks like Konerko right now. All ground balls. Dye can't even hit a foul ball anymore. He has more strikouts than hits.

balke
04-26-2005, 11:34 AM
Anderson I've always heard is out next stud, one of the leagues future big studs. We're 20 games in, Dye isn't hitting. I'll only be upset if I don't see improvement in 10 more games from him.

Everett's bat is great, and he's a veteran. I don't like his range though. I hope to see him in right, just not everyday. I'd rather see him rest the RF, and Frank when Frank comes back.

Frater Perdurabo
04-26-2005, 11:38 AM
Dye has never been a great hitter but is a solid player. It's much too early to write him off. The team is built around pitching and defense. Putting Everett in the outfield will weaken the defense. Neither Thomas nor Everett should play in the field. They are both strictly DH's. Actually I prefer Everett as the DH. He gives us power from the left side and balances our lineup. Thomas is very slow , hits righthanded, and can't throw or field. In addition Thomas has always had the reputation of being a me first guy. He just not fit into the team that Ozzie and KW hve built. If it ain't broke, don't fix it

I agree that we should not yet write off Dye, but it is time to be concerned and to make contingency plans in case Dye does not improve.

Would you really sit a guy with 400+ career homers who had a .997 OPS, 64 walks, a .434 OBP, 18 homers and 16 doubles in 74 games in 2004 before he got hurt?

I intend no offense to you, but sacrificing some corner OF defense to get Frank's bat into the lineup is ludicrous. And I value defense more than most people on here do!

Everett could play left, with Podsednik in center and Rowand in right. Furthermore, Frank would sit against RH pitchers against whom he has struggled. On these days, Everett would DH and Dye could play the field.

Right field is not a position where a team can afford a sub-.200 hitter for long stretches. If Dye was hitting .250 and taking walks, you might have an argument.At this point, Borchard might be a better option because not only could put up those numbers, he's also got left-handed power!

Dye deserves a bit more time because he's not costing the Sox any games. However, if the pitching slips, the Sox will have to rely on their offense more, and they will not have the luxury of starting a right fielder with a .200 OBP.

Frater Perdurabo
04-26-2005, 11:41 AM
Dye's current ineptitude is hurting Everett and Konerko. Pitchers can afford to nibble at the corners and throw junk to Everett and Konerko, knowing that they have an easy out coming up with Dye and his .200 OBP.

Frank is the cog in the wheel of the Sox offense. Dye is shooting the wheels off it right now. Thank goodness for the bottom of the order and the great pitching.

Ol' No. 2
04-26-2005, 11:47 AM
Dye's current ineptitude is hurting Everett and Konerko. Pitchers can afford to nibble at the corners and throw junk to Everett and Konerko, knowing that they have an easy out coming up with Dye and his .200 OBP.

Frank is the cog in the wheel of the Sox offense. Dye is shooting the wheels off it right now. Thank goodness for the bottom of the order and the great pitching.This is why I think when the middle of the order finally breaks out, they'll all do it together. And I just have the feeling it's coming soon. These guys are just too good to hit this poorly for long. When these guys start hitting, and if the pitching stays as good as it's been, the Sox might not lose another game the rest of the year. (Not entirely sure that should be in deep pink.:smile:)

chisoxmike
04-26-2005, 12:23 PM
It's only april. BUt if Dye is still playing horribly when Big Frank is back, I got a feeling Everett will be the RF.

I would hope Everett does not go back into the field.

Palehose13
04-26-2005, 12:29 PM
I honestly believe tht Ozzie is soon going to go to a "rotational " OF where Podsednik and Rowand get the majority of PT, with Dye, Perez, and Ozuna rotating (and then Carl too when Frank gets back). Ozzie seems to like to keep guys fresh and this way he can get his bench some PT and not have to suffer too much til Dye gets his stroke back.

mikehuff
04-26-2005, 12:39 PM
Ozzie should make a change to the batting order immediately. There is no way Dye should continue to hit #5. Put him at 7 or 8 and if he still doesn't get any hits for a week or so, then it's Timo's turn to get more playing time.

California Sox
04-26-2005, 01:18 PM
I say "give Dye more time" but he has looked horrible up there. He had two at bats last night where he helped Zito out by swinging at pitches over his head. He's not seeing the ball at all. For him to be dangerous the pitcher has to hit his bat. It may be time to move Crede and Rowand up and move Dye down to the 8 hole to straighten out his swing.

pudge
04-26-2005, 01:28 PM
I don't. 2003 Konkero looks like Konerko right now. All ground balls. Dye can't even hit a foul ball anymore. He has more strikouts than hits.

I agree with what you're saying, but please... the 2003 Konerko is not the same as the current Konerko, or the one from last year.

Jjav829
04-26-2005, 01:29 PM
http://www.msbaseball.com/entropybanner/frank_thomas.jpg

"Whichever OFer is doing the worst when I get back will have to make room for me."

Frank's gonna play the OF? :o: :o:

I think that should be Carl Everett saying that. :smile:

Palehose13
04-26-2005, 01:33 PM
Frank's gonna play the OF? :o: :o:

I think that should be Carl Everett saying that. :smile:

Well..it was going to be Carl, but his hot streak has cooled. I think Podsednik and Rowand are staying in the line up, but when Frank gets back whoever is playing the best at the moment (Dye, Carl, Timo, or Ozuna) will be playing the OF (and not necessarily RF). Actually, I think we'll see a rotation in the OF to accomodate whoever is hot, while Frank DH's. That's why I chose Frank, cause I'm not so sure that Carl is a lock anymore.

Fake Chet Lemon
04-26-2005, 01:34 PM
Everyone seems to like this team's chemistry. Dye is known for being possibly the best clubhouse guy in the AL. Not among the best, but THE best. If that is the case, I'd like to give him another month. If Frank returns in May and he still isn't producing, then a move needs to be made. But I just have this feeling when Rowand gets it going, guys around him like Dye will too.

TaylorStSox
04-26-2005, 01:37 PM
He's pressing. He needs to relax. He doesn't have a hole in his swing. He's swinging too hard and pulling off the ball. His head is all over the place. It reminds me of when Big Frank struggled a few years ago. Once he cuts down his swing and head movement, he'll see the ball alot better.

Also, ARow isn't seeing the ball well. There's a been a few pitches that were up and in that he didn't react to at all. That shows he's not seeing the ball well. Everyone of his hits has been to RF because he's not picking up the ball inside.

They'll both pick it up. I'd consider moving Dye back and moving Crede up. Otherwise, I wouldn't play with the line up.


Another thing that concerns me. Iguchi's starting to look overmatched. He's trying to pull everything. He needs to think the other way a little more.

Frater Perdurabo
04-26-2005, 01:41 PM
He's pressing. He needs to relax. He doesn't have a hole in his swing. He's swinging too hard and pulling off the ball. His head is all over the place. It reminds me of when Big Frank struggled a few years ago. Once he cuts down his swing and head movement, he'll see the ball alot better.

Also, ARow isn't seeing the ball well. There's a been a few pitches that were up and in that he didn't react to at all. That shows he's not seeing the ball well. Everyone of his hits has been to RF because he's not picking up the ball inside.

They'll both pick it up. I'd consider moving Dye back and moving Crede up. Otherwise, I wouldn't play with the line up.

Another thing that concerns me. Iguchi's starting to look overmatched. He's trying to pull everything. He needs to think the other way a little more.

The lineup will not reach its potential until Frank returns.

Think of the Pakleds from Star Trek, who "look for things that make us go."

Frank makes the Sox offense go.

Once Frank returns, pitchers can either walk him or give him a steady diet of good pitches, hoping he will strike out or pop out. Yet Frank will kill good pitches. When he walks, the other batters will get more fastballs. The effect will cascade up and down throughout the lineup.

Ol' No. 2
04-26-2005, 01:49 PM
He's pressing. He needs to relax. He doesn't have a hole in his swing. He's swinging too hard and pulling off the ball. His head is all over the place. It reminds me of when Big Frank struggled a few years ago. Once he cuts down his swing and head movement, he'll see the ball alot better.

Also, ARow isn't seeing the ball well. There's a been a few pitches that were up and in that he didn't react to at all. That shows he's not seeing the ball well. Everyone of his hits has been to RF because he's not picking up the ball inside.

They'll both pick it up. I'd consider moving Dye back and moving Crede up. Otherwise, I wouldn't play with the line up.


Another thing that concerns me. Iguchi's starting to look overmatched. He's trying to pull everything. He needs to think the other way a little more.The hitters in the middle of the lineup tend to protect each other. I think when you see them break out, they will all break out together. I'd be hesitant to mess with the lineup. Right now, the top and bottom is hitting. Why move one of the good hitters into the center of the black hole?

I've never been a fan of playing through slumps, so I would sit Dye a couple of days a week and play Perez against some RHP. He could use the playing time.

Jjav829
04-26-2005, 01:50 PM
Dye looks awful, but he's gonna stay in the lineup because of his contract. He needs to pick it up soon. Dye is one of the main reasons that our offense hasn't been as good as it can be.

I just worry about a Konerko 2003 type of situation. I hope this doesn't continue into a downward spiral that he never really pulls out of all year. Hopefully he'll have a few multi-hit games soon and started getting some confidence back.

Fake Chet Lemon
04-26-2005, 01:54 PM
Dye looks awful, but he's gonna stay in the lineup because of his contract. He needs to pick it up soon. Dye is one of the main reasons that our offense hasn't been as good as it can be.

I just worry about a Konerko 2003 type of situation. I hope this doesn't continue into a downward spiral that he never really pulls out of all year. Hopefully he'll have a few multi-hit games soon and started getting some confidence back.

That hit after they intentionally walked Everett could be enormous. If Paulie had struck out, I could possibly see a long funk coming on. Wasn't he down 0-2 also? He'll come around soon.

Jjav829
04-26-2005, 01:59 PM
That hit after they intentionally walked Everett could be enormous. If Paulie had struck out, I could possibly see a long funk coming on. Wasn't he down 0-2 also? He'll come around soon.
I meant Dye actually. I should have made that clear. I worry about Dye having year like Konerko in 2003 where Paulie struggled bad early on and that just set him back the whole year. Paulie needs to heat up, too, but I don't worry about him as much. I think the 7 bombs are enough to keep him from getting too down on himself.