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View Full Version : Oakland's Where I Start to Believe...


LVSoxFan
04-25-2005, 10:22 AM
So this week I get to see if I know what I'm talking about.

All off-season I've said: if the Sox are going to do it this year, there are three teams we have to own once and for all--

1. Minnesota (duh)
2. Detroit (even when they suck, we always tend to lose to them at just the wrong time)
3. Oakland

Oakland, Oakland, Oakland. A guaranteed loss last season and the year before. Now we have three games against them and a chance to bury the West coast curse. Anaheim--er, cough, I'm sorry Los Angeles--wasn't exactly a welcome wagon either.

If we can take the series at least, I might start drinking the kool-aid, even though it's still really early. Best part, also, is that we come home from that to play... the Tigers.

So for an early predictor, this week should be pretty damn telling.

itsnotrequired
04-25-2005, 10:25 AM
Oakland, Oakland, Oakland. A guaranteed loss last season and the year before.

...and the year before that...and even the year before that!

mikehuff
04-25-2005, 10:32 AM
The biggest things that needed to change from the team we had the last 3 years are these...

- Winning in the Metrodome - (check)
- Beating Detroit - (check)
- Hitting Rookie Pitchers -
- Winning on the West Coast -


We have new players now. I don't think the same trend will continue.

CubKilla
04-25-2005, 10:36 AM
Beating Oakland is the Sox second big test of early '05. But the Sox have struggled on the entire West Coast road swings as of late. Gotta win the West Coast series on the West Coast to be considered a legit threat.

veeter
04-25-2005, 10:37 AM
I don't use this particular trip in judging our Oakland status. Reason being, the Sox are at the end of a fairly long road trip and they're beat up. I know what you're saying but I'll take 1 of 3 and have a 6-2 road trip. I also think the Sox have proved they are not the same team anymore by the large amount of games everyone agrees we would have lost in years past that we have won.

Bias
04-25-2005, 10:41 AM
The biggest things that needed to change from the team we had the last 3 years are these...

- Winning in the Metrodome - (check)
- Beating Detroit - (check)
- Hitting Rookie Pitchers -
- Winning on the West Coast -


We have new players now. I don't think the same trend will continue.

I think quality starts from the 5th starter should be the BIG thing 'cuz it would help accomplish all of the above....save for hitting rookie pitchers of course.

crazyozzie02
04-25-2005, 10:44 AM
Its Oakland or Bust as far as Im concerned. Im with most of you, if they can beat OAKLAND at least 2 of 3 then i will REALLY start to believe. But just think, if they sweep OAKLAND then they would be 8-0 on the road trip. (knock on wood) Doenst that remind you of what the SOX did in 2000, only scaled down a bit?!?!?

owensmouth
04-25-2005, 10:45 AM
I think this game tonight has some significance for another reason. Is Jon Garland for real? He's 3-0 so far. He's going up against Zito. Will JG continue to pitch solidly, or begin to waver? For this team to prosper, Garland must do well. I'm looking for at least two wins in Oakland, and I expect a victory tonight.

Irishsox1
04-25-2005, 10:46 AM
There is nothing worse than staying up till midnight and end up singing the West Coast Blues.

In years past, it would seem that when the Sox landed on the west coast they would forget their bats and gloves and at the same time forget how to play the game of baseball.

DMarte708
04-25-2005, 10:46 AM
Oakland will beat us 2/3. I just know it. Every game against Billyball is a hardfought battle. Even our one victory last season wasn't easy. Anyone recall the lineshot Shingo caught for the final out? What's worse is last season past A's, Cotts and Olivo, were practically useless. It's as if any past player playing against Oakland wets the bed. Dye will probably go 0 for series, and Cotts will once again give up a game winning HR.

For the matchups:

Zito pitched against us last year in the midst of a slump, and of course, our offense was just the spark he needed to remain on track. Hawk will probably remind us all of his stuff after he shuts us down.

Harden will dominate our club. If we're scoring 2 runs off KC's Bautista, I'm looking for about the same from Harden.

Sarloos has been banged up, but he's a rookie pitcher against us club. This may be the game with the best opportunity for us to win. If not

Trust me, there's nothing I despise more than losing to Oakland and hearing Beane apologists run their mouths. But we're probably looking at 1/3 or three loses in Oakland.

ode to veeck
04-25-2005, 10:52 AM
I am so tired of seeing the Sox lose to Oakland, whether on the left coast or at the Cell. The last 4 seasons against the A's have been no fun for Sox fans. Time to get even!

mikehuff
04-25-2005, 10:55 AM
With Garland and Buehrle going, and the way we are playing now, there's no need to set low expectations. I believed in this team from the start and their record so far is proving what they can do. I want 2 or 3 from Oakland. We are the best team in baseball and the best team in baseball will continue to be the BEST TEAM IN BASEBALL!

SoxWillWin
04-25-2005, 11:09 AM
While it's nice to look at how we've done in the past I prefer to look at the pitching as they stand this season.

Zito Vs. Garland

Garland 3 - 0, 2.57 ERA, 1.00 WHIP
Zito 0 - 3, 6.94 ERA, 1.50 WHIP

Sox can take this one as long as our bats wake up. Garland should still give us a strong 6 innings and may give up a few runs.

Harden Vs. Buerhle

Buerhle 3 - 1, 2.61 ERA, 0.77 WHIP
Harden 2 - 0, 0.44 ERA, 0.98 WHIP

This one is too close to call, probably very low scoring. Toss up.

Sarloos Vs. Garcia

Garcia 2 - 1, 3.21 ERA, 1.04 WHIP
Saarloos 1 - 1, 6.30 ERA, 1.35 WHIP

Good chance to get a W here if we can get runs for Freddy.

I think the only game we should be extremely worried about is tuesday, I'm not saying we WILL win tonight and wednesday, we are in the midst of an offensive downturn, so while losing 2 of 3 is a possibility offensively, winning 2 of 3 is a possibility from looking at pitching and D. So where does that leave us??? A big fat Unknown sit down and watch the games and hope for the best series.

jabrch
04-25-2005, 11:20 AM
Harden Vs. Buerhle

Buerhle 3 - 1, 2.61 ERA, 0.77 WHIP
Harden 2 - 0, 0.44 ERA, 0.98 WHIP

This one is too close to call, probably very low scoring. Toss up.


One thing to keep in mind is Oakland is TERRIBLE vs lefties.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/oak/stats/bycategory?cat=Batting&type=31&year=season_2005&qualified=0&sort=22

Team batting avg vs lefties - .203
Team OBP vs lefties - .279
Team SLG vs lefties - .297

Hatteberg - .214
Chavez - .158
Kendall - .154
Scutaro and Ginter - .111
Swisher - 0 for 13
Kietly - 0 for 11

Yeah - I like our chances with Buehrle going.

SoxWillWin
04-25-2005, 11:23 AM
One thing to keep in mind is Oakland is TERRIBLE vs lefties.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/oak/stats/bycategory?cat=Batting&type=31&year=season_2005&qualified=0&sort=22

Team batting avg vs lefties - .203
Team OBP vs lefties - .279
Team SLG vs lefties - .297

Hatteberg - .214
Chavez - .158
Kendall - .154
Scutaro and Ginter - .111
Swisher - 0 for 13
Kietly - 0 for 11

Yeah - I like our chances with Buehrle going.

Good Point, So it all depends on the Offense waking up. If they do we can have a very happy week.

StillMissOzzie
04-25-2005, 11:24 AM
It's been the whole left coast - the A's, the Angels (whatever city they're from this year), and the Mariners -that have been problems for the Sox the last few years, not just the A's. While I'd love to see the streak hit double digits, I'd be real happy with 2 out of 3 and another series victory.
SMO
:gulp:

Ol' No. 2
04-25-2005, 12:06 PM
IMO, people are putting WAAAAYYY too much importance on Oakland. It's THREE games. They don't play there again the rest of the year. If they get their heads handed to them, they're still 15-7. If, before the season started, I had offered you 15-7 after 22 games, you'd have been peeing all over yourself with joy. (Me, too!)

It's still April. Just enjoy them as they come.

Baby Fisk
04-25-2005, 12:10 PM
IMO, people are putting WAAAAYYY too much importance on Oakland. It's THREE games. They don't play there again the rest of the year. If they get their heads handed to them, they're still 15-7. If, before the season started, I had offered you 15-7 after 22 games, you'd have been peeing all over yourself with joy. (Me, too!)

It's still April. Just enjoy them as they come.
This Oakland series is very psychological, Mr. Fox, if not for the team, than certainly for fans. The Sox have been routinely depantsed and humiliated in Oakland (read: they can't win there!). Winning in Oakland, even one or two of three, would put a lot of people at ease. There's still a lot of people (raising hand) who are loving this season so far, but don't want to believe the Sox are legit until they can win a series like this one.

LVSoxFan
04-25-2005, 12:12 PM
Well okay, let me rephrase: West coast, as others have pointed out. But we always seemed to be most abysmal in Oakland.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not placing all our chips in the Oakland basket. But from last year, from what I saw, our problems were these:

1) Fifth starter hole
2) Inability to win in Oakland/Anaheim/West Coast, inexplicable losses to the lowly Tigers
3) Loss of Frank/Maggs

West coast trips were doomsday affairs that would erase any ground we'd gain by beating division rivals. Seeing that we thumped Cleveland enough and we're 4-1 with Minnesota, things look good.

Detroit the jury's still out on. I was at both those games in Motown. The first night we crushed them; the second, frankly, we managed to pull out when a routine grounder to short hit something and went over the shortstop's head, leading to a just-enough rally.

So this week should be a good early-season barometer: Oakland, and then Detroit. Two dragons I'd like to see us slay.

But who knows? Maybe Oakland is just that one team that everybody seems to have. For the Yanks, it seems that Baltimore owns them. Didn't stop the Yanks from getting to the big game.

jabrch
04-25-2005, 12:13 PM
This Oakland series is very psychological, Mr. Fox, if not for the team, than certainly for fans. The Sox have been routinely depantsed and humiliated in Oakland (read: they can't win there!). Winning in Oakland, even one or two of three, would put a lot of people at ease. There's still a lot of people (raising hand) who are loving this season so far, but don't want to believe the Sox are legit until they can win a series like this one.

Fisk, what will 2 of 3 vs Oakland prove to you that 4 of 5 vs Minny hasn't already? Like #2 said, This is 3 games. I'd love to see us win them all, but on the road, it wouldn't surprise me if we lost 1, 2 or even 3 of them. The team would still be further ahead than any of us would have thought, and would still be coming home to play Detroit and KC again. I don't think this series should be looked at as a litmus test. It's just another 3 game series to me...

That said, I like our chances - their offense is horrendous.

Ol' No. 2
04-25-2005, 12:16 PM
This Oakland series is very psychological, Mr. Fox, if not for the team, than certainly for fans. The Sox have been routinely depantsed and humiliated in Oakland (read: they can't win there!). Winning in Oakland, even one or two of three, would put a lot of people at ease. There's still a lot of people (raising hand) who are loving this season so far, but don't want to believe the Sox are legit until they can win a series like this one.I think that's really the point: It means more to the fans' psyches than to the team's chances.

Baby Fisk
04-25-2005, 12:16 PM
Fisk, what will 2 of 3 vs Oakland prove to you that 4 of 5 vs Minny hasn't already? Like #2 said, This is 3 games. I'd love to see us win them all, but on the road, it wouldn't surprise me if we lost 1, 2 or even 3 of them. The team would still be further ahead than any of us would have thought, and would still be coming home to play Detroit and KC again. I don't think this series should be looked at as a litmus test. It's just another 3 game series to me...

That said, I like our chances - their offense is horrendous.

Psychology is a funny thing. :cool:

chisoxmike
04-25-2005, 12:20 PM
The biggest things that needed to change from the team we had the last 3 years are these...

- Winning in the Metrodome - (check)
- Beating Detroit - (check)
- Hitting Rookie Pitchers -
- Winning on the West Coast -


We have new players now. I don't think the same trend will continue.

How can we say they've past these tests...

-Winning in the Metrodome- they've won 2 games, they still got 6 left (They were 6-1 there last season before the collaspe)

-Beating Detriot again 2 games, they won the first two games last year against the Kitties


I am as thrilled about the Sox just as much as anyone here, but it is WAY to early to start saying they've past the test. I think we've all forgotten how well they started last season too.

LVSoxFan
04-25-2005, 12:21 PM
Nobody's saying the season's lost if we don't beat Oakland every time.

The point is: Oakland's been an automatic loss for the past three or four years, period. If we manage to win series with them, then we truly are a "new" team this year.

The record start is great and all, but things like Oakland would undo us for years. Look, we take 2 from them out there and come home and thump the Tigers... I'll be as excited as excited can be. Before the ASB, that is.

And let's not forget the Cubs! We LOST that series last year, remember? Sure it means nothing in the end, but man o man to I hope we crush those losers this year!

Yes I realize I'm off the rails now, topic-wise...:supernana:

LauraJ14
04-25-2005, 12:23 PM
IMO, people are putting WAAAAYYY too much importance on Oakland. It's THREE games. They don't play there again the rest of the year. If they get their heads handed to them, they're still 15-7. If, before the season started, I had offered you 15-7 after 22 games, you'd have been peeing all over yourself with joy. (Me, too!)

It's still April. Just enjoy them as they come.


The Sox play in Oakland again July 1-3.

Fredsox
04-25-2005, 12:28 PM
Do you guys remember that big road trip we had a few years ago (2000 I think)? We had 7 games against Cleveland and the Yankees. We swept the games and totally dominated them.

Then we went 3 & out against Seattle in the playoffs.

I think sending messages to other teams during the regular season is a bit over rated. Not certain that it has any real value, especially THIS early in the season. I'd like to win these games, of course, but I don't see them as an indicator of our performance as a team for the rest of the season more than any other series.

elrod
04-25-2005, 12:32 PM
Do you guys remember that big road trip we had a few years ago (2000 I think)? We had 7 games against Cleveland and the Yankees. We swept the games and totally dominated them.

Then we went 3 & out against Seattle in the playoffs.

I think sending messages to other teams during the regular season is a bit over rated. Not certain that it has any real value, especially THIS early in the season. I'd like to win these games, of course, but I don't see them as an indicator of our performance as a team for the rest of the season more than any other series.

It's not about sending messages to other teams as to ourselves. The 3 and out against Seattle was after a couple months of slowing down. The Cleveland and New York series were the height of the Sox season and they were in JUNE.

tacosalbarojas
04-25-2005, 12:42 PM
Let's also keep in mind that this isn't your slightly older brother's A's team. Of the big Three, only one is left, and he was the weakest of the three AND has a 6.4 ERA. We should take two of three, but in baseball you just never know. I'll be more interested to see how we stack up against Anaheim, New York and Boston and the NL West teams we face. I want Minny again. We're waiting too long to play them again. A pox on the schedulemaker!

mrfourni
04-25-2005, 12:44 PM
If the Bulls can end their west coast woes so can the sox

SoxFan76
04-25-2005, 12:46 PM
The Sox play in Oakland again July 1-3.

Are you sure? I'm pretty sure they only play Oakland 6 times: 3 there 3 at the Cell.

LVSoxFan
04-25-2005, 12:47 PM
I agree with Elrod: this is about our psyche, not the A's.

Everything in the regular season goes out the window in the playoffs anyway. Did we not have the best record in baseball when we got... swept by Seattle in 2000?

Maybe the way to put it is this: we have a "new" team. What would truly be "new" is beating Oakland for once. A confidence-builder. And I'm telling you, that confidence can come in handy when you're losing a game with no way out and you just refuse to quit (like yesterday).

Baby Fisk
04-25-2005, 12:49 PM
Are you sure? I'm pretty sure they only play Oakland 6 times: 3 there 3 at the Cell.

Sox at Oakland Jul 1-2-3
Oakland at Sox Jul 8-9-10

Lip Man 1
04-25-2005, 12:50 PM
Since the start of the 2001 season the Sox are a dismal 2-16 in Oakland. They have not won a 'series' there since they took 2 of 3 in August 2000.

and yes Laura, the Sox do go back to Oakland July 1-3. They play nine total games this year only three in Chicago (it's that goofy unbalanced schedule you understand...)

Lip

SOXSINCE'70
04-25-2005, 12:54 PM
This is one of many tests the White Sox will face this season.

2 out of 3 or a sweep would be great.The game to see is
tomorrow night.Can the Sox put a dent in Rich Harden's
0.44 ERA?? Considering the A's fare poorly against lefties,
I wish Beuhrle,Cotts and Marte could pitch this series.(Yes,I know Cotts
and Marte are RP's.but they ARE LHP's as well).

Jermaine Dye,this is your chance to help break a 4 year old curse.
The last time the Sox had a winning record against the A's was 2000.:cool:

Let's do it again.5 years is enough of a waiting period.:gulp:

Stroker Ace
04-25-2005, 01:00 PM
If the Sox take at least 2 of 3 in Oakland, that should offically confirm that this team is for real. All of the jacka--es at "The Network" and the Chicago media should realize this and give us the respect we deserve!

Ol' No. 2
04-25-2005, 01:33 PM
The Sox play in Oakland again July 1-3.That's what I get for reading the schedule without my bifocals.:redface:

Fredsox
04-25-2005, 01:34 PM
It's not about sending messages to other teams as to ourselves. The 3 and out against Seattle was after a couple months of slowing down. The Cleveland and New York series were the height of the Sox season and they were in JUNE.

Exactly the point, in fact our current situation amplies the example. We're discussing the heightened importance of a series in April, which at the end of the season will really mean no more than any other set of 3 games. If the Sox get swept, or if they do the sweeping, are we going to look back at the end of the season and say "this series was a turning point"? I don't think so.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-25-2005, 01:58 PM
Anybody who hasn't been convinced by the Sox start in April has no good reason for being convinced by a strong showing in Oakland this week. It's three lousy games. We still have over 5 months worth of games left to play.
:?:

As for "sending a message," the only way this series looms large is if the Sox meet Oakland in the playoffs next October. It's waaaaay too early for Sox Fans to be concerned about such nonsense. As for Oakland fans, it may already be too late.

:roflmao:

Whitesox029
04-25-2005, 09:17 PM
So this week I get to see if I know what I'm talking about.

All off-season I've said: if the Sox are going to do it this year, there are three teams we have to own once and for all--

1. Minnesota (duh)
2. Detroit (even when they suck, we always tend to lose to them at just the wrong time)
3. Oakland

Oakland, Oakland, Oakland. A guaranteed loss last season and the year before. Now we have three games against them and a chance to bury the West coast curse. Anaheim--er, cough, I'm sorry Los Angeles--wasn't exactly a welcome wagon either.

If we can take the series at least, I might start drinking the kool-aid, even though it's still really early. Best part, also, is that we come home from that to play... the Tigers.

So for an early predictor, this week should be pretty damn telling.
I don't have time to go reading through big threads at the moment, so forgive me if this has already been said, but it seems like Oakland is usually not a very tough opponent at the Cell.

Johnny Mostil
04-25-2005, 09:30 PM
Anybody who hasn't been convinced by the Sox start in April has no good reason for being convinced by a strong showing in Oakland this week. It's three lousy games. We still have over 5 months worth of games left to play.
:?:

As for "sending a message," the only way this series looms large is if the Sox meet Oakland in the playoffs next October. It's waaaaay too early for Sox Fans to be concerned about such nonsense. As for Oakland fans, it may already be too late.

:roflmao:

Oh, honestly, PHG, why are you resorting to sweet reason? Even if the Sox sweep the A's, then it will be time to worry about the fact they've yet to play a winning team outside the division . . .

Fake Chet Lemon
04-25-2005, 09:45 PM
I think most of you need to back it down a notch. Three games in Oakland in April won't mean jack. Chances are someone will win 2 of 3. So if we only win 1 instead of two, it won't matter even just a week from now.