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Lip Man 1
04-24-2005, 08:19 PM
Past is certainly no guarantee of future success, but I thought it would be interesting to see how some of the more successful Sox teams from the past started out. All past record are through Memorial Day.

So here ya’ go:

1954 - 94-60 - 28-14 by Memorial Day, finished in 3rd place, 4th best record in MLB

1955 - 91-63 - 25-16, finished in 3rd place, 4th best record in MLB

1957 - 90-64 - 26-11, finished in 2nd place, 3rd best record in MLB

1959 - 94-60 - 25-19, won A.L. pennant, had 35 one run victories, best record in MLB

1963 - 94-68 - 27-19, finished in 2nd place, 3rd best record in MLB

1964 - 98-64 - 24-11, finished in 2nd place, one game behind New York, 2nd best mark in MLB

1965 - 95-67 - 27-16, finished in 2nd place, started out 22-8, tied for 3rd best mark in MLB

1967 - 89-73 - 25-15, finished in 4th place, lost pennant final week with five game losing streak

1972 - 87-67 - 22-16, finished in 2nd place, five games behind Oakland, short season due to labor impasse

1977 - 90-72 - 25-19, finished in 3rd place

1981 - 54-52 - 26-17, split season due to labor impasse

1982 - 87-75 - 28-18, finished in 3rd place, started out 20-10

1983 - 99-63 - 20-25, won Western Division, best record in MLB

1990 - 94-68 - 28-16, finished in 2nd place, 3rd best record in MLB

1993 - 94-68 - 24-23, won Western Division, tied for 5th best record in MLB

1994 - 67-46 - 29-19, leading Central Division at time of labor impasse, 3rd best record in MLB

2000 - 95-67 - 30-22, won Central Division, tied for 2nd best record in MLB

Lip

Daver
04-24-2005, 08:23 PM
The past is for cowards and losers.

santo=dorf
04-24-2005, 08:26 PM
The past is for cowards and losers.
:iron

Can anyone tell me how many teams, if any, have spent the entire season in first place? I know the 2001 Mariners took over in late April, but I don't know if that's the record.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-24-2005, 08:29 PM
The past is for cowards and losers.

Da Coach is always quotable.
:cool:

:iron
"Genius behind the Super Bowl championship? This too shall pass."

Lip Man 1
04-24-2005, 08:31 PM
Off hand I think the 1990 Cincinnati Reds went wire to wire. I'm certain the 1984 Detroit Tigers did, and I'd think the odds were good that the Yankees team that won 114 games or so in 1999? went wire to wire.

Lip

voodoochile
04-24-2005, 08:34 PM
The one thing that sticks out at me from that list is that 12 of 15 possible teams (not counting the two strike years) won 90+ games and averaged 92.73 wins (including all 15 non-strike seasons).

If the Sox get to 93 wins this season, they should win their division and will definitely be in the WC hunt. Anything higher than that is almost guaranteed to make the playoffs.

New playoff rules and divisions change the equation dramatically.

TDog
04-24-2005, 08:35 PM
I think at least one of the 1970s Reds teams went wire to wire in first. Of course, the 1984 Tigers were in first place the entire season. The 1974 Dodgers were in first from start to finish. Before divisional play, the 1927 Yankees were in first from opening day on.

Would anyone out there be bold enough to start comparing the Sox to the 1927 Yankees?

santo=dorf
04-24-2005, 08:37 PM
Off hand I think the 1990 Cincinnati Reds went wire to wire. I'm certain the 1984 Detroit Tigers did, and I'd think the odds were good that the Yankees team that won 114 games or so in 1999? went wire to wire.

Lip

I completely forgot about the 35-5 1984 Tigers.

The 1998 Yanks (114 wins) got off to an 0-3 start, and despite an 8 game losing streak in late July, the 1990 Reds stayed in first all season long.

ilsox7
04-24-2005, 08:44 PM
That Tigers team was the team that proved you CAN win a division in the first 6 weeks of a season. If I am not mistaken, they basically played .500 call from mid-May to October.

elrod
04-24-2005, 08:48 PM
Can anyone tell me how many teams, if any, have spent the entire season in first place? I know the 2001 Mariners took over in late April, but I don't know if that's the record.

The 1997 Orioles went wire to wire in first.

A. Cavatica
04-24-2005, 09:05 PM
The 1983 team is still the benchmark, with 99 wins. They actually started 16-24, and then went 4-1 just to get to 20-25.:smile:

A. Cavatica
04-24-2005, 09:06 PM
If only the Wild Card had existed in 1963-1964-1965...

gobears1987
04-24-2005, 09:13 PM
If there were 4 post season spots per league in each of those years, we would've been in the post-season and who knows, we may have progressed to the WS in many of those years.

Lip Man 1
04-24-2005, 11:41 PM
Actually I did a 'what if,' exercise here at WSI looking at what might have happened had MLB been in two divisions (East & West) during the time period from say 1951 through 1969 (when MLB actually split into two divisions.)

The Sox would have been in the post season six times, based on their actual records, tied with Cleveland for second best, the Yankees of course led far and away.

The years if I remember correctly, were 1957, 1958, 1959, 1963, 1964 and 1965.

Lip

mikehuff
04-25-2005, 10:06 AM
I completely forgot about the 35-5 1984 Tigers.


35-5! Holy crap, I never knew that! Man, could you imagine that feeling?

LVSoxFan
04-25-2005, 10:37 AM
Thanks for posting the history; it is interesting to see how it all turned out.

And yes, I'm not so concerned with how we start obviously than how we finish.

A couple of things, though: one, we're winning games we have no business winning. If we were crushing everybody and streaking along, I'd be worried about the early peak and the inevitable collapse. But we're hitting like s*** right now and still winning. That makes me think: wait until we really get going.

But in the end, secondly, after the Boston thing last year, I no longer invest anything in history, curses, or past trends. What they did last year--not just making it to the ALCS but coming back from 3-0--shows that nothing about the past matters. All eyes forward.

So like any Sox fan I hold my breath at all this good fortune, but the past tells me little just like when they talk about Sox records and streaks and best-record, etc. At the All Star break we'll all have a better idea what's what. In the meantime, I just try to enjoy.

The last two games at K.C. sucked--we should have lost them both. I had written off yesterday's game thinking (almost relieved) well, finally we lost. The fact that we pulled them out is just gravy at this point.

The Racehorse
04-25-2005, 10:42 AM
The past is for cowards and losers.

lol... I like that... too me, it is very George Patton-esqe. :cool:

The Racehorse
04-25-2005, 10:45 AM
35-5! Holy crap, I never knew that! Man, could you imagine that feeling?

I remember it vividly. Detroit squashed the SOX early that season en-route to that phenomenal start.

The Racehorse
04-25-2005, 10:47 AM
Would anyone out there be bold enough to start comparing the Sox to the 1927 Yankees?

As an unabashed positive thinker... uh, no. :wink:

daveeym
04-25-2005, 10:54 AM
I remember it vividly. Detroit squashed the SOX early that season en-route to that phenomenal start. Didn't the brewers start off a season roughly 23- 28 and 0 in the 80's? I thought baltimore had a year like that too in the late 80's early 90's.

The Racehorse
04-25-2005, 11:09 AM
Didn't the brewers start off a season roughly 23- 28 and 0 in the 80's? I thought baltimore had a year like that too in the late 80's early 90's.

... can't remember how the '82 Brewers started, other than they had an awesome line-up that was nicknamed Harvey's Wallbangers.

I do remember the Orioles starting 1-23 in '88... then the turn around in 1989 where they barely lost out to the Blue Jays on the final weekend of the season.

TDog
04-25-2005, 11:41 AM
Didn't the brewers start off a season roughly 23- 28 and 0 in the 80's? I thought baltimore had a year like that too in the late 80's early 90's.

In the mid-'80s, the Brewers started 13-0, I think. I don't remember the exact number of wins out of the gate or year, but I'm pretty sure it was 13 and in the Sox's post-'83 malaise because it occurred when I had a supervisor who was a Brewers fan. What I most remember is Joel Davis got the win for the Sox in the Brewers' first loss. He was interviewed live after the game on ESPN as a giant-killer, I guess. That was his only win that year.

Baltimore lost its first 22 or 23 games one year in the second half of the '80s. I think Sox still held the record for consecutive losses to start a season (10 in 1968) before the O's eclipsed it.

daveeym
04-25-2005, 12:11 PM
In the mid-'80s, the Brewers started 13-0, I think. I don't remember the exact number of wins out of the gate or year, but I'm pretty sure it was 13 and in the Sox's post-'83 malaise because it occurred when I had a supervisor who was a Brewers fan. What I most remember is Joel Davis got the win for the Sox in the Brewers' first loss. He was interviewed live after the game on ESPN as a giant-killer, I guess. That was his only win that year.

Baltimore lost its first 22 or 23 games one year in the second half of the '80s. I think Sox still held the record for consecutive losses to start a season (10 in 1968) before the O's eclipsed it. Ah yup, baltimore was for the losses, and that 13 game start for the brew crew sounds like what I was thinking about.

TommyJohn
04-25-2005, 12:17 PM
In the mid-'80s, the Brewers started 13-0, I think. I don't remember the exact number of wins out of the gate or year, but I'm pretty sure it was 13 and in the Sox's post-'83 malaise because it occurred when I had a supervisor who was a Brewers fan. What I most remember is Joel Davis got the win for the Sox in the Brewers' first loss. He was interviewed live after the game on ESPN as a giant-killer, I guess. That was his only win that year.

Baltimore lost its first 22 or 23 games one year in the second half of the '80s. I think Sox still held the record for consecutive losses to start a season (10 in 1968) before the O's eclipsed it.

Me again, Super Trivia Geek. Interesting notes:

In 1987, the Brewers started out 13-0 before the White Sox stopped the streak.

In 1988 the Orioles started the season 0-21 before they stopped their
streak against...the White Sox, of course. Both games took place on
the hallowed grounds of Old Comiskey.

I believe the worst start before the Orioles was 0-14 or so, by Washington
Senators I. I don't remember the exact year, would have to look it up.

elrod
04-25-2005, 12:28 PM
In 1987 the Brewers started out 13-0 and hit 20-3 at one point. Then they lost 12 in a row. Bizarre. They did finish with 91 wins though. Their bats completely fell asleep after they hit 20 wins.

The 2003 Royals were 16-3, then fell to 27-28.

The 2003 Yankees started off 18-3 and 20-4, before faltering in May to 36-28 (the Houston no-hitter). Then they caught fire again.

The Orioles started off 1988 at 0-21. The Cubs started 1997 at 0-13. The 2003 Tigers started off 3-25 and, in an almost tragic reversal of 1984, 9-35.

The 1984 Tigers were 9-0, 16-1, 19-2, and 26-4 and 35-5. The Tigers went 69-53 AFTER the 35-5 start (second best in the AL), so they played much better than .500 the rest of the way though not at the early clip.

The 1955 Brooklyn Dodgers started 22-2.

The 2001 Twins started off 14-3 and stayed strong until the All-Star Break.

tacosalbarojas
04-25-2005, 12:36 PM
I was also reminded that the '03 Royals started off 16-3. That was then, however, and this is now.

Lip Man 1
04-25-2005, 12:45 PM
Here's a few more numbers to cogitate:

The 1987 Brewers began the season 17-1. That was the year Juan Nieves tossed the only no-hitter (so far) in team history. Nieves is now a Sox minor league pitching coach.

The 2002 Indians started out 12-1.

The 1988 Indians started out 14-3.

The Cubs also started out the 1991 season 0-14. That's when their manager was fired and former Sox catcher Jim Essian was brought in. They played four games under .500 the rest of the way for him.

Lip

PaleHoseGeorge
04-25-2005, 12:49 PM
The 1984 Tigers ...went 69-53 AFTER the 35-5 start (second best in the AL), so they played much better than .500 the rest of the way though not at the early clip.

Let's put this in perspective. 69-53 is a .566 winning percentage. Across a full 162 game season, that translates into 92 wins... and that's when the '84 Tigers were "cold!"
:o:

For peak performance, the 1984 "Bless Our Boys" Tigers are undoubtably the best team of my lifetime. They literally coasted to the world championship, not unlike a certain NFL team in 1985.

:iron
"We're not here to cause no trouble..."

Lip Man 1
04-25-2005, 01:05 PM
The Sox opened the home portion of their 1984 season with Detroit that first weekend in April. Detroit swept them with Jack Morris throwing a no hitter that Saturday.

I'll never forget watching that game in the sports office in Louisiana (It was the NBC Game Of The Week.) Then destroying a trash can when it was over.

Morris had walked the bases full one inning and still got out of it. I also recall Tom Paciorek lacing a shot down the first base line that Dave Bergman made a leaping catch on.

As we all know the 1984 season was a total dud for the Sox.

Lip