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View Full Version : Will all the irrational Wille Harris lovers please stand up?


Malgar 12
04-24-2005, 03:38 PM
I believe that a few weeks ago, several WSI's were complaining that Joe Crede cost the Sox a sweep with a diving attempt deflection of a ball that he presumably knocked away from Uribe.

It seems only fair that the same rage will now be directed at Wille Harris after he booted a routine (at least it sounded routine, I only have radio) grounder, that may end up costing the sox a sweep in KC...if not, I sense a double standard. I condede Crede has underachieved though that criticism has quieted during his recent hitting streak. The thing I still can't understand is how anybody thinks Wille Harris is anything but a scrub, and why so many people cut him so much slack...

santo=dorf
04-24-2005, 03:39 PM
He just singled!

voodoochile
04-24-2005, 03:40 PM
Yeah, all you people who think Willie rocks, Stand up and be counted! Come on! I dare you...

*crickets*

oeo
04-24-2005, 03:44 PM
Where's Bafia?

beckett21
04-24-2005, 03:47 PM
Where's Bafia?

I was thinking the same thing.

:weewillie

At least I still have one friend in this town.

krohnjw
04-24-2005, 03:48 PM
*Sigh* I am watching this over the web from work. 4 errors? Hopefully gload can put us back up here....I get the feeling we aren't winning on 2 runs today.

Wsoxmike59
04-24-2005, 03:50 PM
He just singled!

And scored! :D:

bafiarocks03
04-24-2005, 03:50 PM
Where's Bafia?

Right here!! Please i know willie made a small error, but he just scored the tying run right now, on aaron's single! so there!! HA! Willie is the best! he made up for it!

NSSoxFan
04-24-2005, 03:52 PM
Right here!! Please i know willie made a small error, but he just scored the tying run right now, on aaron's single! so there!! HA! Willie is the best! he made up for it!

Don't like, forget about Mckenzie. [insert giddy school girl laughter]

Jurr
04-24-2005, 03:59 PM
When a guy screws up, he has chances to redeem himself. Willie did just that. Get off his back.

pearso66
04-24-2005, 04:09 PM
I'm a Willie supporter, and he should have had the play, but nobody is flawless 100% of the time. But as an aside, I wasn't ripping on Crede for his play either so, does that mean I still have to rip on Willie? BTW the SOX JUST WON WOOHOO

MRKARNO
04-24-2005, 04:12 PM
He did get on base 3 times, but that error was big. Seriously though, I've seen many worse errors, but I'm plenty happy with Crede/Uribe/Iguchi.

gobears1987
04-24-2005, 04:13 PM
nm

bafiarocks03
04-24-2005, 04:14 PM
When a guy screws up, he has chances to redeem himself. Willie did just that. Get off his back.

thank you!!:D:

batmanZoSo
04-24-2005, 04:17 PM
I totally think Harris is a loser, but I'm not going to waste my time worrying about it because we just won 7 in a row. It's called etiquette.

SOX ADDICT '73
04-24-2005, 04:19 PM
Well, he's responsible for one run, but scored two of his own, so IMO the score is:

Good Willie 2, Evil Willie 1

Good triumphs over Evil once again!

fquaye149
04-24-2005, 04:22 PM
gmab. Who in the world is a Willie Harris LOVER? (besides Bafiarocks of course)

Yeah it was a big boot, and a tough one to take. However, it was a physical, not a mental error, and offensively Willie did as much as we can ask him, certainly more than I expect from him.

What on earth do you want to happen? Willie cut? Ok...fine...I'll go along with that...but is there really a pressing need to cut him?

Good grief to this thread, good grief to the bench Crede thread, and, yes, good grief to the anti-Dye threads that I'm sure will surface after his pitiful game.

jabrch
04-24-2005, 04:56 PM
Well, at least you didn't do this on a day where he totally stunk up the joint...

Harris went 2 for 3 and scored two runs for us today. He's hitting .368 coming off the bench. Put me firmly in the camp with those who say Willie is a tremendous asset to have off the bench, to spot start at 2B and in the OF, and to hit against righties.

Ozzie is using him well. He isn't getting ABs against lefties. He is helping the team in places that he can help the team. Cripes - we have a bench IF/OF who is hitting .368 and people are bitching about him?

I'm not a Willie Harris LOVER. But I think he is a fine backup IF/OF and left handed bat to have on the roster.

MUsoxfan
04-24-2005, 05:10 PM
Cripes - we have a bench IF/OF who is hitting .368 and people are bitching about him?



I'm glad his hitting is okay, but routine groundballs in a situation where the game could be on the line have to be fielded properly. I'm very glad he's not starting more than once a week.

jordan23ventura
04-24-2005, 05:13 PM
When a guy screws up, he has chances to redeem himself. Willie did just that. Get off his back.

Thank you. By the way, there were three other errors the Sox made in that game and El Duque gave up more than a few walks. This was a bad game that was played today and if it weren't for the fact that we were playing one of the worst teams in baseball we probably would have lost. That said, give Willie a break.

Daver
04-24-2005, 05:15 PM
Willie will look good in a Knights uni when the time comes to make room for Frank on the twenty five man roster.

balke
04-24-2005, 05:15 PM
I'm glad his hitting is okay, but routine groundballs in a situation where the game could be on the line have to be fielded properly. I'm very glad he's not starting more than once a week.

Everyone should be glad he's on our bench. It makes our bench deep, cause he's very serviceable, has great range, and hits the ball very well for being a back-up. He's also quick, not a great SB threat, but can score on a grounder from 3rd.

Jurr
04-24-2005, 05:27 PM
I'm glad his hitting is okay, but routine groundballs in a situation where the game could be on the line have to be fielded properly. I'm very glad he's not starting more than once a week.

Yeah...Crede bobbled a ball in a bad situation the other week, and you all ripped him for that. Now you're on his sack. Every player makes errors. Every quarterback misses passes...every star NBA player misses free throws, even in big situations. Get a clue and remember that screwups are part of baseball.

MUsoxfan
04-24-2005, 05:43 PM
Yeah...Crede bobbled a ball in a bad situation the other week, and you all ripped him for that. Now you're on his sack. Every player makes errors. Every quarterback misses passes...every star NBA player misses free throws, even in big situations. Get a clue and remember that screwups are part of baseball.

Crede never had a big mouth during the offseason. Crede doesn't promote himself saying how great he is when he feels threatened. Crede's open to a couple free passes because he's done more to help this team than hurt it. Willie is at about the break-even point.

fquaye149
04-24-2005, 06:18 PM
Crede never had a big mouth during the offseason. Crede doesn't promote himself saying how great he is when he feels threatened. Crede's open to a couple free passes because he's done more to help this team than hurt it. Willie is at about the break-even point.

Um - is this Terrel Owens we're talking about or Willie Harris. All I really remember is one Joe Crowley interview....

I mean, I like Crede more than Willie, since Crede plays + defense, but come on...why take potshots at a backup 2nd baseman who contributed more than he hurt today...

Unless you had some sort of vested interest in whether el duque got the win...

Lip Man 1
04-24-2005, 06:34 PM
Daver:

Exactly correct, especially after what Ozuna did in the 8th inning after going what a week without an at bat?

Lip

BainesHOF
04-24-2005, 07:05 PM
Willie Harris is a busher. He needs to be removed from the roster ASAP. He's a fast guy who doesn't know how to use his speed. He's worthless.

DickAllen72
04-24-2005, 07:19 PM
:threadsucks

Ol' No. 2
04-24-2005, 07:33 PM
:threadsucksAmen to that. Why is it that people just HAVE to have a whipping boy?

balke
04-24-2005, 07:34 PM
:threadsucks

I agree

shoota
04-24-2005, 08:03 PM
I believe that a few weeks ago, several WSI's were complaining that Joe Crede cost the Sox a sweep with a diving attempt deflection of a ball that he presumably knocked away from Uribe.

It seems only fair that the same rage will now be directed at Wille Harris after he booted a routine (at least it sounded routine, I only have radio) grounder, that may end up costing the sox a sweep in KC...if not, I sense a double standard. I condede Crede has underachieved though that criticism has quieted during his recent hitting streak. The thing I still can't understand is how anybody thinks Wille Harris is anything but a scrub, and why so many people cut him so much slack...

Bad analogy. You said yourself that there is a difference in the Crede and Harris errors: The Sox lost the game Crede errored in; the Sox won the game Harris errored in. That difference is so huge; it makes your question a poor one to ask.

In my case, I used to rip on Crede more than I did Harris because Crede is a starter who gets more playing time and thus, hurts the team more. If the Sox lost this game, I think a lot more Harris bashing would have occured.

Also remember that Crede's error extended the inning, allowing Hunter's three-run home run give Minnesota the lead in a game against our biggest division rival on national television. A sweep there would have been really huge at that point in the season.

Harris's error today was a much easier play than Crede's.

I've never been a Willie Harris supporter. I do like his attitude this year.

balke
04-24-2005, 08:07 PM
Crede, Harris, Dye have all made big bobbles or errors that were inexcuseable. Soon Uribe will do the same, and someone will run their mouth about that. Ease up on the players, step back and realize we have a good thing going here, and everyone has a place on the roster at this point.

Ol' No. 2
04-24-2005, 08:08 PM
Bad analogy. You said yourself that there is a difference in the Crede and Harris errors: The Sox lost the game Crede errored in; the Sox won the game Harris errored in. That difference is so huge; it makes your question a poor one to ask.

In my case, I used to rip on Crede more than I did Harris because Crede is a starter who gets more playing time and thus, hurts the team more. If the Sox lost this game, I think a lot more Harris bashing would have occured.

Also remember that Crede's error extended the inning, allowing Hunter's three-run home run give Minnesota the lead in a game against our biggest division rival on national television. A sweep there would have been really huge at that point in the season.

Harris's error today was a much easier play than Crede's.

I've never been a Willie Harris supporter. I do like his attitude this year.There's another rather elementary difference.

The Crede error was only in your mind.

shoota
04-24-2005, 08:17 PM
There's another rather elementary difference.

The Crede error was only in your mind.

And in the loss column.

Correct, it wasn't scored as an error, but I've watched and played enough baseball to know what plays must be made. I don't blindly take official scorers' decisions as fact because they are human and error. Like Crede.

balke
04-24-2005, 08:26 PM
And in the loss column.

Correct, it wasn't scored as an error, but I've watched and played enough baseball to know what plays must be made. I don't blindly take official scorers' decisions as fact because they are human and error. Like Crede.

Until further notice, I trust the professionals that get paid to do it. I like the aggressive play. Did anyone see KC today have the same exact play, the 3rd baseman let it go by, and the SS had the ball go right through his legs?

Still people whine about this play... I just don't get it. For the 7 plays that were amazing since that Crede has made, you need to let it go. Rolen has made errors in his career as well. It comes with the territory.

Another point: Today Duque had bases juiced with 2 outs, and an error scored the run. The next play, he made the out pitch. Regardless of error, I believe the responsibility belongs to MB to make that out. Remember the flack Garland took from this board for blaming his D for having runs scored on him last season? MB doesn't whine about it, and I'm sure if you asked him, he'd say those runs are earned.

kevingrt
04-24-2005, 08:29 PM
Can we just admit everyone makes mistakes. Willie made a terrible mistake on the soft two-hooper but he can always redeem himself. And don't forget we still got the W. The error wasn't as devastating as any of the billions of errors Jose Valentin committed to cost us countless games.

JoseCanseco6969
04-24-2005, 08:32 PM
Willie will look good in a Knights uni when the time comes to make room for Frank on the twenty five man roster.

Yeah i think he'd definitely look sharp in one of those!
Seriously, he sucks and will never amount to an everyday player on any team. I hate giving time to him over the gooch who seems to find a way on base every game. I sure hope harris is the one sent down when the big man comes back.

TaylorStSox
04-24-2005, 08:40 PM
Yeah i think he'd definitely look sharp in one of those!
Seriously, he sucks and will never amount to an everyday player on any team. I hate giving time to him over the gooch who seems to find a way on base every game. I sure hope harris is the one sent down when the big man comes back.

Harris will have a productive and long career. It probably won't be on this team though.

I'm most impressed with his ability to work a count. He will hit on this level, and play good defense. Unfortunately his baserunning is poor.

Since I'm a Sox fan, I should have said "Sucks, horrible or loser" at least once in this thread.

Is anybody starting to think that alot of posters remind them of a stereotypical Cubs fan. I've never bought it, but the stereotype is that Cub fans are irrational and don't know much about baseball. These threads are making me wonder if that same sweeping generalization should be applied to Sox fans as well.

JoseCanseco6969
04-24-2005, 08:45 PM
Harris will have a productive and long career.


Talk about irrational!

TaylorStSox
04-24-2005, 08:46 PM
Talk about irrational!

What makes you say that?

TaylorStSox
04-24-2005, 08:49 PM
I see alot Jimenez in Harris. He sees the ball well. He knows how to work the count. He can hit to all fields. He's a solid 2nd baseman. Both are poor baserunners.

Fortunately for Harris, alot of teams subscribe to the Bill James book on baseball. Harris' poor baserunning will be overlooked due to his ability to work a count and get on base.

Daver
04-24-2005, 08:58 PM
What makes you say that?

You're definition of good defense varies from mine.

Willie is a fair second basemen, and a lousy centerfielder.

The fact that he struggles to hit MLB pitching makes him a 4A player.

TaylorStSox
04-24-2005, 09:05 PM
You're definition of good defense varies from mine.

Willie is a fair second basemen, and a lousy centerfielder.

The fact that he struggles to hit MLB pitching makes him a 4A player.

I'd say he's a B- second baseman. The CF role doesn't really matter in my mind. Other teams probably won't play him there. We did out of necessity. He's got good range and solid glove. He doesn't have much of an arm but not a whole lot of 2nd baseman do.

He'll hit in the majors. He needs to get on a team that has the confidence to put him in the line up everyday. I'm thinking that a team that's out of contention will give him a chance to hit everyday. He sees the ball really well. He has an excellent grasp of the strike zone. He's constantly pressing when we put him in the game. It hurts his aggressiveness. Daver, do you agree that he sees the ball well? If you notice, he looks the ball into the catcher's mit as well as anybody on this team, sans Frank. I can see him having a pretty productive career. He's not going to be a star, but a steady player.

JoseCanseco6969
04-24-2005, 09:07 PM
What makes you say that?

Harris just isnt a starting 2B, CF or SS. Maybe he can get better with time, but he just doesnt have the defense at 2B or arm to go along with a CF. He's not a leadoff hitter and he has no clue how to swipe a base.
He has pretty good speed and range and can be a decent count worker, but thats where it ends.
It's possible he will turn out to be an ok second baseman with another squad, but my money is he will ultimately fail for many reasons already stated thoughtout this thread.

JoseCanseco6969
04-24-2005, 09:11 PM
I'd say he's a B- second baseman. The CF role doesn't really matter in my mind. Other teams probably won't play him there. We did out of necessity. He's got good range and solid glove. He doesn't have much of an arm but not a whole lot of 2nd baseman do.

He'll hit in the majors. He needs to get on a team that has the confidence to put him in the line up everyday. I'm thinking that a team that's out of contention will give him a chance to hit everyday. He sees the ball really well. He has an excellent grasp of the strike zone. He's constantly pressing when we put him in the game. It hurts his aggressiveness. Daver, do you agree that he sees the ball well? If you notice, he looks the ball into the catcher's mit as well as anybody on this team, sans Frank. I can see him having a pretty productive career. He's not going to be a star, but a steady player.

Didnt we give him a shot to basically be an everyday player last year?? He played in 129 games with 409 AB. Thats very generous for his lack of production.

Look, I hate hearing us as Sox fans bashing our players, but should we sit her and blindly cheer for players who arent cutting it??
I couldnt be happier with the start we've had, but the Harris stuff has been a long time coming. He doesnt belong with this team.

TaylorStSox
04-24-2005, 09:16 PM
Didnt we give him a shot to basically be an everyday player last year?? He played in 129 games with 409 AB. Thats very generous for his lack of production.

Look, I hate hearing us as Sox fans bashing our players, but should we sit her and blindly cheer for players who arent cutting it??
I couldnt be happier with the start we've had, but the Harris stuff has been a long time coming. He doesnt belong with this team.

I'm not "blindly cheering" for him. I don't think he has a future on this team. I'm just giving an opinion on the player that I think he is. I think he'll have a decent career somewhere and hit about .275 with a .360 OBP. He's not going to wow anybody. He will be somewhat productive and get a job somewhere. There's teams out there that won't care about his stealing woes. Alot of teams don't want their guys stealing at all. There's teams out there that will value his ability to take walks and go from first to third.

DaleJRFan
04-24-2005, 09:18 PM
this may have already been said, but I don't feel like reading all the replies... I'm not a Willie Haris fan by any stretch of the imagination, but the guy was the starting 2B last season and now he's been riding the pine this year. I am sure he was rusty.

Maybe had they lost today, I'd be calling for his head... but as long as the team keeps on winnin' like they did today (with 4 backups in the lineup) I'll keep my mouth shut :cool:

balke
04-24-2005, 09:21 PM
Why are we still complaining about Harris? HE'S NOT A STARTER! AND... that guy has the audacity to hit .368 OFF THE BENCH! STRING HIM UP!

Infielders occasionally need a rest, and occasionally might not match up well with certain pitchers. There's nothing wrong he's doing right now, except playing a utility role well. I like Ozuna as much as anyone, but Oz can make this decision when the time comes.... which right now looks more and more like the All-Star Break.

shoota
04-24-2005, 09:42 PM
Today Duque had bases juiced with 2 outs, and an error scored the run. The next play, he made the out pitch. Regardless of error, I believe the responsibility belongs to MB to make that out. Remember the flack Garland took from this board for blaming his D for having runs scored on him last season? MB doesn't whine about it, and I'm sure if you asked him, he'd say those runs are earned.

You blame the pitcher for not doing his job by pitching over an inning-extending error behind him, but you believe the players behind him are not responsible for the errors they make. That's a very inaccurate way of looking at the situation.

You can give partial blame to the pitcher, because he's the one who pitches to the batter, but you can't relieve the men behind him for their physical and mental errors. Each man on the field has a job to do, and if he errors, especially on a potential inning-ending play, he shares fault with the pitcher.

jabrch
04-24-2005, 11:22 PM
I'm glad his hitting is okay, but routine groundballs in a situation where the game could be on the line have to be fielded properly. I'm very glad he's not starting more than once a week.

Even a GGer will drop a ball every now and then - come on...

Crede threw a ball today that pulled Gload off the bag. That doesn't make him a bad 3B. Willie is a fine defensive 2B even despite his error today.

jabrch
04-24-2005, 11:27 PM
Look, I hate hearing us as Sox fans bashing our players, but should we sit her and blindly cheer for players who arent cutting it??
I couldnt be happier with the start we've had, but the Harris stuff has been a long time coming. He doesnt belong with this team.

I'm sorry, but we must have different expectations. He is hitting .368. I'm not sure how that isn't cutting it. I'm not sure how he doesn't belong with this team. We should be so lucky to have a backup IF who costs very little, can hit like that and play decent 2B. I can think of a lot of teams that would love to have that sort of production on their bench.

TheBull19
04-25-2005, 12:34 AM
This is pretty ridiculous. I'm glad the sox upgraded w/ Iguchi, but Harris is a decent guy to have on the bench and probably does have the ability to hang around in the majors for a few years. He had a .343 OBP last year, his first with anything close to regular playing time, and there are a couple guys in the sox lineup who have never matched that number in their careers - not to name any names, but they both spend a lot of time on the left side of the IF. His career sb% is 80%. His career fielding % and range factor are above league average at 2b, and other than today's error, he's done a good job when called off the bench this year. And he made up for the error offensively today. I wouldn't be happy w/ Harris as the sox starter, but he's good enough for the bench and I could see him developing over the next 2-3 years to the point where he'd make a servicable starting second baseman for somebody.

fquaye149
04-25-2005, 03:50 AM
Dear this thread:

In which direction is the wind blowing today?

P.s. remember: one error a bad defenseman makes.

D. TODD
04-25-2005, 09:46 AM
I am extremely happy with Willie as our utility guy, along with Ozuna. His attitude has been good so far, he has played hard, hit well, provides speed, and is solid defensively at second base. It is a major upgrade with Iguichi at second and Willie as a quality bench player capable of helping the team in a variety of ways.

hawkjt
04-25-2005, 01:26 PM
Guilty as charged- I am a big Willie fan. I wanted him to get the starter spot but I do like what Tadahito has done so far. Willie leads the team in hitting and on base %. I guess he could do better and lead all of baseball in both catagories but I guess we will have to settle for best on the team. He is valuable to this team and as Hawk has said many times has great range in the field. We have two very solid 2nd basemen. That is a good thing.

the gooch
04-25-2005, 01:39 PM
i am a willie suporter.
i believe if the crede/harris comparisons are going to continue it should be noted that although they both came up around the same time and are the same age, crede is a full year ahead of willie in development. after the '03 season crede already had totaled 800 career AB. to this day willie has 752 AB, the majority as a backup.

if willie ever gets a real chance with the sox, my guess is he succeeds. no matter how much the sox talk about smallball, i think they are still in love with the long ball. thats why willie has been replaced via trade/FA twice in the last year and crede hasnt, and why uribe played mostly 2nd after valentin came back from injury last year even when willie was playing well.

willie is still trying to dig out of his horrible '03 season. it is still fresh in the minds of many harris detractors. if 137 AB as a backup is enough to evaluate a player then why is jamie burke playing in AAA?

with that said, i like the gooch but sometimes i wish he could play third or short too.