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chisoxfanatic
04-24-2005, 12:33 AM
Kenny Williams has been wheeling and dealing during his several years as our General Manager. What ONE move would you say has been his best move since taking Schuey's place?

StuForumStuCazzo
04-24-2005, 12:39 AM
Too many to name for me, no specific big move, but a lot put together. I think he always gets the shaft, and people forget the past. I think people may have been mad for recent trades because they remember getting David Wells and Bartolo Colon for absolutely NOTHING. I am now confident in his dealings, knowing that he is some plan working in his head. You have to give up something to get something, and lately his trades seem to work well for both clubs. I remember all the outcry against trading Royce Ring, haven't heard his name lately in baseball news at all (he's probably in the minors, but even if he's shutting people down, that doesn't help us now)

The funny things are his most successful things may have been the little ones that were looked over like Loaiza, or the resigning of Garcia, which noone in the media talks about. I think this offseason was great though, one that I even questioned at times, but after looking at the big picture, a work of pure genius that caught all the "experts" off guard. This team gives me the same feeling that Bulls did in their preseason, I loved the new attitude and personality

soxfanreggie
04-24-2005, 12:46 AM
Wasn't he essential in picking the pope? :tongue:

JRIG
04-24-2005, 12:46 AM
Too many to name for me, no specific big move, but a lot put together. I think he always gets the shaft, and people forget the past. I think people may have been mad for recent trades because they remember getting David Wells and Bartolo Colon for absolutely NOTHING. I am now confident in his dealings, knowing that he is some plan working in his head. You have to give up something to get something, and lately his trades seem to work well for both clubs. I remember all the outcry against trading Royce Ring, haven't heard his name lately in baseball news at all (he's probably in the minors, but even if he's shutting people down, that doesn't help us now)

The funny things are his most successful things may have been the little ones that were looked over like Loaiza, or the resigning of Garcia, which noone in the media talks about. I think this offseason was great though, one that I even questioned at times, but after looking at the big picture, a work of pure genius that caught all the "experts" off guard. This team gives me the same feeling that Bulls did in their preseason, I loved the new attitude and personality

Damaso Marte.

Fake Chet Lemon
04-24-2005, 12:58 AM
Joe Borchard.

WinningUgly!
04-24-2005, 01:03 AM
Damaso Marte.

I agree.

Stroker Ace
04-24-2005, 01:53 AM
I'm gonna say David Wells. Even though he got hurt and wasn't brought back the next year, how many games has Sirotka won since the trade?

HomeFish
04-24-2005, 01:55 AM
The Garcia extension. Imagine how much he would have gone for on the offseason market.

Banix12
04-24-2005, 02:16 AM
If we're talking about a trade where we absolutely fleeced somebody, then the Colon trade was his best trade. We got one good year out of him, the expos got an injured starter in El Duque and Rocky Biddle, who had his one decent season but then went back to being Rocky Biddle.

The Garcia trade and subsequent extension was brilliant, it cost us a lot of talented prospects but they got Garcia locked up for a few years at a cost cheaper than just about all of the top free agents last season.

Based on early returns, the Lee for Podsednik and Vizcaino could go down as his best trade ever. The sox are 11-1 in games where podsednik starts (the only loss being the Takatsu meltdown I believe). The sox are 3-3 in games he doesn't start. Other factors surely caused this stat as well but still it's interesting. Vizcaino has largely been solid, other than the Takatsu meltdown game where he was left in too long.

BNLSox
04-24-2005, 02:33 AM
I love the pickup of A.J. I think finally having a guy behind the plate that we know is here to compete every day, can swing the bat, and can call a good game has made all of our pitchers CLEARLY better. I'm a firm believer in the importance of the catcher!! Perhaps I've watched Major League one to many times....



Either way I am loving what the boys are doing so far!! :bandance: :dtroll: :D:

doublem23
04-24-2005, 02:52 AM
The Garcia extension. Imagine how much he would have gone for on the offseason market.

Agreed.

Jurr
04-24-2005, 02:54 AM
Picking up Ozzie Guillen. No doubt.

pudge
04-24-2005, 03:54 AM
I've said many times I thought the Garcia trade would define his career, but if Podzilla keeps playing like he's playing, that deal may trump it.

Unregistered
04-24-2005, 04:10 AM
I've said many times I thought the Garcia trade would define his career, but if Podzilla keeps playing like he's playing, that deal may trump it.I'm too lazy to look it up, but I believe Carlos is hitting somewhere around .200 - which would make him just another easy out in the middle of our lineup right now. Instead we have a ridiculous leadoff hitter that makes pitchers absolutely lose their minds (see the first inning of the 4/23 game) and a damn good reliever added to the bullpen.

That trade is looking REAL GOOD right about now...

hose
04-24-2005, 07:22 AM
If we're talking one move then I like Kenny's trade for Juan Uribe.

Uribe is going to be a fixture at SS and it was Williams best chess move dating back to Dec. of 2003.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-24-2005, 07:29 AM
Damaso Marte.

Isn't it simply amazing how much good pitching the Pirates willingly trade away? I'm glad the Sox benefited for once and not the Cubs for a change.

:cool:

Tragg
04-24-2005, 08:09 AM
I'd say his best move was getting Marte.

Second, I'm becoming a quick believer in the Lee trade. And that's with Carlos performing at the level he performed at as a Sox. It gave us 8 million to spend on 5 other players, all of whom will be critical to our success this year.

He worst trade was easily the Ritchie trade.

As an aside, if AJ is calling pitches, then I'm okay with him. Otherwise, the reports of his defensive liabilities were not inaccurate, and so far, he hasn't hit a lick and won't take a walk.

Jjav829
04-24-2005, 08:43 AM
Firing Jerry Manuel.


Best player move, trading for Freddy Garcia.

Realist
04-24-2005, 09:51 AM
With 14-4 rattling around in all our heads, it's tends to make this a difficult question. Right now I'm gonna go with signing A.J. He's tough on ground balls.

gobears1987
04-24-2005, 09:54 AM
I'd say Garcia trade and the signing of him for 3 years.

jabrch
04-24-2005, 09:59 AM
I'd say Freddy, but honorable mention has to go to the Lee for Pods/Vizcaino and enough freed up salary space for AJ, El Duque and then some.

But it is amazing that we are having this thread. A year ago there was so much KW hate around here it is amazing.

balke
04-24-2005, 10:05 AM
So many good trades. KW supporters love it!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/balke/Thread-Rocks.jpg

Randar68
04-24-2005, 10:06 AM
As an aside, if AJ is calling pitches, then I'm okay with him. Otherwise, the reports of his defensive liabilities were not inaccurate, and so far, he hasn't hit a lick and won't take a walk.

AJ almost never walks, and never has in his career. That being said, he's a career ~.280-.290 hitter in the AL. Given who our catchers were slated to be prior to that signing, it was a great move.

I'm not terribly big on him defensively, but if he ends up hitting over .050 points higher than who would have been there, he more than makes up for it, IMO.

Uribe, Harris, Marte, Jerry Owens, got all those guys for basically nothing.

Tom Gordon turned out to be a hell of a signing for us for that 1 year. Colon and Wells for basically nothing.

If you consider what they did with CLee's money, that was a hell of a move.

CLee for Vizcaino, Pods, AJ, and El Duque(or Iguchi).

MRKARNO
04-24-2005, 10:19 AM
I would say that Kenny has made some pretty good moves that were for only one year. He's made a few moves which are for more than one year which are too early to evaluate (Uribe, Iguchi, Dye, El Duque and possibly AJ come to mind), but there are a few that really stick out on the one year front. The Colon deal was amazing. We gave up nothing and we got a significant part of our team that year. The 1st Everett deal was pretty good too, as he hit very well for the White Sox. While we did lose Francisco, he also nearly helped us get into the playoffs. The second trade for Everett may work out well too. We lost Rauch, but nobody's crying over that.

Three pickups which standout as being pretty good are Takatsu, Loaiza and Gordon. For Takatsu, it is too early to see if that was just a one year wonder, but the other two were quite valuable in the White Sox' run in 2003. Kenny Williams basically created the White Sox' chance to go to the playoffs that year based on his smart moves. They didnt have any lasting impact, but for that year, they were amazing moves.

But the best move? Gurrier for Marte. No move has had a more lasting impact on this team in a positive manner. He's been the backbone of this bullpen since 2002 and has been fairly reliable in the 8th inning role. He has been put in a ton of high leverage situations and he gets out of them more often than almost any other reliever in the majors.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-24-2005, 11:00 AM
I was going to nominate the Roberto Alomar acquisition, but I couldn't remember which one.
:wink:

Fake Chet Lemon
04-24-2005, 11:14 AM
Colon. It was a huge statement at the time, and he gave up very little. Too bad Colon couldn't give up a meal or two.

Daver
04-24-2005, 11:16 AM
I was going to nominate the Roberto Alomar acquisition, but I couldn't remember which one.
:wink:

It's too early to say, it isn't June yet and Roberto is available.

chisoxfanatic
04-24-2005, 12:39 PM
Thinking of all of the moves he's made, I'd have to say that the one that sticks out in my mind is the Lee for Podsednik/Vizciano goes down as his best in my book. You get rid of a guy who wasn't really good for the clubhouse for two guys who absolutely work their butts off every day, and cost less as well, and you've got yourself a winner of a deal. The Podsednik part of the deal is what excites me most. Not only does Podsednik get into the heads of the opposing pitchers; but, when he's got a close play at first after he's batted, he always runs the play out, never accounting for an "easy out." This puts an immense amount of pressure on the opposing middle infielders, who can't think much before throwing to first base. Vizciano seems to know how to pitch in pressure situations, which is needed as well to be soxessful. Looks like both Podsednik amd Vizciano have a hunger to win, and that's been the main theme around this clubhouse this month...

soxtalker
04-24-2005, 01:01 PM
It is way too early to evaluate either the Garcia or Lee trades. Everything looks rosy when you're 14-4, but it really depends on how things look in the longer run. Earlier moves -- I'd probably say Loiaza, though I liked a number of the minor trades.

WinningUgly!
04-24-2005, 01:03 PM
I was going to nominate the Roberto Alomar acquisition, but I couldn't remember which one.
:wink:

You could've made it really confusing & just said the Alomar acquisition. :o:

batmanZoSo
04-24-2005, 01:10 PM
I agree.

Awesome sing.

:hawk
Just awesome.

Banix12
04-24-2005, 01:13 PM
I think we can all agree that Kenny's best quality as a General Manager has been finding great talent in small deals from unexpected people. Marte, Uribe, Loaiza, Iguchi.

The big deals haven't always worked, but for some reason the small deals end up working out really well. Though we probably never hear about the small deals that fell apart.

JRIG
04-24-2005, 01:13 PM
You could've made it really confusing & just said the Alomar acquisition. :o:

Or by saying dumping Alomar before he got old and useless. :smile:

SABRSox
04-24-2005, 01:26 PM
Isn't it simply amazing how much good pitching the Pirates willingly trade away? I'm glad the Sox benefited for once and not the Cubs for a change.

:cool:

Maybe we can find a way to pry Mike Gonzalez from the Pirates bullpen. That guy is dominating...

santo=dorf
04-24-2005, 01:37 PM
Actually, the first Roberto Alomar trade was great. Ring isn't cutting it with the Mets, and Almonte and Salvo were released by the end of 2003 and he also got the Mets to pay for most of his salary.

Tim Hummel (claimed off of waivers last season by the Red Sox) for Sullivan and CASH was another good move.

He also turned a non-roster invitee into a 21 game winner, the starter for the All-Star game in OUR ballpark, and 2 years of Jose Contreras.

I like the Freddy Garcia trade the most because it gives us arguably the best 1-2 punch in the AL Central for the next 3 years.

batmanZoSo
04-24-2005, 01:46 PM
The best move I've heard him make is the other day at Midway airport when I overheard him placing an order of food over the phone for pick-up. He went with a cheeseburger, but when he asked "what kind of soup do you have," he had a choice between cream of crab and chicken rice. He went with the cream of crab. That was a good move. . .

voodoochile
04-24-2005, 01:49 PM
You could've made it really confusing & just said the Alomar acquisition. :o:

Everyone expects the Alomar Acquisition...

BTW, great sig. I never would have thought of Man Soo Lee as Alice, but I guess it makes sense.:tongue:

Palehose13
04-24-2005, 04:27 PM
Wow...so many good moves, and not so many bad ones. It's hard to pick!

Marte for Gurrier was fantastic.
Uribe for Miles was incredible.
Getting Freddy and signing him was spectacular.

However, for me the one single move that may become the move of all moves was the Lee/Podsednik, Vizcaino trade. Not only because of the impact that those guys are having on the team, but because of all the other guys that KW picked up with that extra money.

We got a special team here...I hope this will continue all season long!

TheBull19
04-24-2005, 05:39 PM
Firing Jerry Manuel.




Except he waited about 2 years to long. Not firing jerry prior to 2003 was his worst move, in my opinion

StockdaleForVeep
04-24-2005, 06:43 PM
I find it laughable how when the team is winning, people wanna proclaim good moves by KW yet when the team was losing, all people ever talked about was the bad moves he made.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-24-2005, 07:06 PM
I find it laughable how when the team is winning, people wanna proclaim good moves by KW yet when the team was losing, all people ever talked about was the bad moves he made.

Well, that's a berry barry interesting observation.

:wink:

Palehose13
04-24-2005, 07:07 PM
I find it laughable how when the team is winning, people wanna proclaim good moves by KW yet when the team was losing, all people ever talked about was the bad moves he made.

I've always been a KW supporter.

Ol' No. 2
04-24-2005, 07:46 PM
Finally focussing his resources on pitching instead of filling the staff with bargain basement castoffs and has-beens.

A. Cavatica
04-24-2005, 07:55 PM
The problem with the Lee trade is it's hard to measure it. Podsednik, Vizcaino, and cash...but did the cash turn into Hernandez? Pierzynski? Iguchi? All of the above? All three have been good signings. It looks like it's going to wind up as one of his two or three best moves, but it's only been 19 games...I think we have to wait until season's end to judge it.

Colon was a robbery, but everyone knows Cashman made that deal happen to keep Colon away from the Red Sox. KW gets credit for being in the right place at the right time, but I can't give him full credit for the trade itself.

I think his best move was signing Loaiza. Talk about getting something for nothing! He gave up no players and precious little cash, and we ended up with a 21-game winner who IMHO deserved to win the Cy Young over Halladay.

Also rans:

The Marte trade was excellent, but Marte's contribution is less than that of a starting pitcher or a regular, so I don't think that ranks in the top three.

The Uribe trade looks excellent too. A shortstop is worth more than a lefty reliever, but still less than a front-of-the-rotation starter. Uribe could still turn into Miguel Tejada and catapult this trade to the top.

It's still too soon to judge Garcia/Davis for Reed/Olivo/Morse. Garcia has been solid, but not an ace, and we gave up players just to have him for a failed playoff run. Reed just passed 100 career AB, and his numbers are promising, but it's too soon to say how good he'll be. On the other hand, Olivo has played poorly for Seattle, and maybe KW unloaded him at just the right time.

Wells for Sirotka was a bold gamble that either failed (if you compare Wells' performance to expectations) or succeeded wildly (if you consider that Sirotka never pitched again).

Everett I and Everett II didn't bring us a division title, and some of those prospects could still emerge as good players. Everett I underperformed the guy he displaced (Rowand), so that trade may have actually hurt the team. Granted, I'll never give KW good marks for these trades, because I still hate Everett after seeing him conduct himself in Boston. I will concede that Everett 2005 has been a much better player than I expected.

Alomar I wasn't a good trade, even if Ring fizzled out, simply because Alomar turned out to be a lousy pickup. Those Mets fans were right -- he sucked.

balke
04-24-2005, 08:03 PM
Alomar I wasn't a good trade, even if Ring fizzled out, simply because Alomar turned out to be a lousy pickup. Those Mets fans were right -- he sucked.

Wasn't jimenez at 2nd before that trade? *shudder* I hated Jimenez w/ a passion. So many errors, so little production. Alomar was great his first time here, really bad his second. It wasn't all about hitting w/ robbie. At first he gave the team Defense, range at 2nd, and the little things that were missing. Soon he proved to decline, but I still don't think ill of that trade as long as our minor leaguers don't turn into productive major leaguers. KW's been good at weeding those out.

Everett did hurt our range at center the first trade, but right now Kenny is looking pretty smart for getting this guy. He's swinging the bat now, and later he may be coming off the bench regularly, replacing an injured/struggling Dye, and keeping us deep in power. I give the thumbs up there.

A. Cavatica
04-24-2005, 08:44 PM
Jimenez was indeed at second. He had been another good "small" pickup -- had enough talent to be worth taking a gamble on, and KW didn't give up much for him (C Humberto Quintero, I think). I think if the Sox had been winning they could have overlooked his mental errors, because he had a decent bat: career .269/.352/.386. Unfortunately, because of Jerry Manuel, they weren't winning, and Jimenez was an easy scapegoat.

Alomar semed like a good idea at the time, but when he got here he showed that he'd lost a step on defense and he'd lost most of his skills at the plate. If the trade had worked out and Alomar had led us to a division title, this would've been a very good trade. It ended up being merely inconsequential.

Fake Chet Lemon
04-24-2005, 08:48 PM
I find it laughable how when the team is winning, people wanna proclaim good moves by KW yet when the team was losing, all people ever talked about was the bad moves he made.

I think most of us were like me. Incredibly frustrated that Kenny Williams thought Jerry Manuel was one of best 30 baseball minds out there and worthy of managing the White Sox. But we always liked his player moves overall. But it was like, what's the point of getting good talent when the manager sucks?

Fake Chet Lemon
04-24-2005, 08:49 PM
I think we can all agree that Kenny's best quality as a General Manager has been finding great talent in small deals from unexpected people. Marte, Uribe, Loaiza, Iguchi.

The big deals haven't always worked, but for some reason the small deals end up working out really well. Though we probably never hear about the small deals that fell apart.

Like the Randy Johnson trade? Yes, it is way too early on that one. But he has to get old one of these days. How about now since the tool refused to come here?!

Hitmen77
04-25-2005, 03:17 PM
Kenny Williams has been wheeling and dealing during his several years as our General Manager. What ONE move would you say has been his best move since taking Schuey's place?

Billy Koch.
Runner up: Todd Ritchie.

Rocky Soprano
04-25-2005, 03:18 PM
Tie between getting Garcia and the CLee trade.

mweflen
04-25-2005, 03:29 PM
Hard to narrow down when your record looks like ours.

Marte is an obvious choice. Uribe based on last season was a steal. Lee for Pods/AJ/El Duque/Vizcaino/Gucci was a tough but awesome move which filled 3 holes. Iguchi is da bomb so far. Hermanson has pitched well. Takatsu was a steal for the money last year, we'll see about this year.

Olivo and whatshisname (i forgot the future HOF's name - Sweeney?) for Garcia and Davis is still too early to tell. I have a sinking sensation that GarciA will implode with some sort of nagging injury/loss of velocity/Kochness or whatever. But we'll see.

There are some serious lowlights, however. Mike Jackson was atrocious. Flush Gordon did nothing for us, and then, miracle of miracles, kicks butt for the Yankee$. Wells was a disaster for the money blown. Hard to leave Ritchie out, either - we gave up WAY too much for him (Wells/Fogg). Clayton was miserable for us, and stank up the order for 2 seasons. The aforementioned Foulke for Koch debacle. And our 2B/C situation for the last 2 seasons was untenable for a team that seriously wishes to compete.

As of now, keeping our current great start in perspective, it's about even steven. KW is a wash. If we continue our success, obviously KW will look like a genius for his remaking of the 2005 team. I certainly won't begrudge him the accolades he would deserve in that case.

Randar68
04-25-2005, 03:37 PM
Flush Gordon did nothing for us, and then, miracle of miracles, kicks butt for the Yankee$.

You're kidding, right? Did you sleep through that season? I'm not even going to bother reading the rest of your post.

mweflen
04-25-2005, 04:00 PM
You're kidding, right? Did you sleep through that season? I'm not even going to bother reading the rest of your post.

Gordon blew. I don't care what the numbers say. I went to 30 games that season, and every time, he was getting us into trouble.

(he blew 5 of 17 saves and had 6 losses for us, FWIW)

Realist
04-25-2005, 04:31 PM
Tracking device ankle bracelets for his kids. :redneck

balke
04-25-2005, 04:51 PM
marte
garcia
loaiza
wells
(So far) Clee
Schoen worked for a while
Colon
Uribe
Gooch (so far)
Shingo (Last year at least, probably this year in the end)
And the luck that Maggs didn't take the money he was offered (like Colon)
Everett
El Duque
Contreras
Alomar I
Cheap Pierzynski

v.

Foulke (to be fair Koch looked like a good idea at the time, but dragged on way too long)
Ritchie
Dye (so far, should turn around)
Borchard
Jackson
Alomar II

I'm forgetting some I'm sure but I don't consider it a wash, he's killed it with positives.

As far as drafting goes, sometimes he makes great picks, and they bust. Sometimes he gambles and it blows up in his face. But there always seems to be talk about our minor leaguers. I haven't figured out why we get Rauchs, Rings, and Kips... but they all end up fizzling compared to the hype. Looks like B-Mac, Sweeney, Fields, and Honel have the chance to right the ship a bit.

slavko
04-25-2005, 06:26 PM
I'm fairly certain Borchard was Schuler's Last Big Move. Kenny's best? Getting lucky with Maggs by only offering him fair dollars..

JRIG
04-25-2005, 06:55 PM
Gordon blew. I don't care what the numbers say. I went to 30 games that season, and every time, he was getting us into trouble.

(he blew 5 of 17 saves and had 6 losses for us, FWIW)

Ridiculous. Take a look at his game log from that season:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlbhist/players/gamelog?statsId=4279&year=2003

He gave up three runs in games on Aug 4 and Aug 6. Other that that, he gave up more than one run ONCE after June 2. Taking out those 3-run games, he didn't allow a run in 30 of his last 40 outings that season.

ElDuque26
04-25-2005, 07:00 PM
No one has mentioned this years top relief pitcher...Dustin Hermanson...he can go for 2 innings or 1 out and hasnt been touched yet this season, so far thats a stud move.

kevingrt
04-25-2005, 07:04 PM
ThNo one has mentioned this years top relief pitcher...Dustin Hermanson...he can go for 2 innings or 1 out and hasnt been touched yet this season, o far thats a stud move.

This guy will not falter as the year goes on either. He is in it for hte long run and will not get overworked with our deep bullpen like he did last year as Giant's closer. I expect an awesome year from all around the bullpen, especially Hermy.

Tragg
04-25-2005, 07:17 PM
No one has mentioned this years top relief pitcher...Dustin Hermanson...he can go for 2 innings or 1 out and hasnt been touched yet this season, so far thats a stud move. Williams did a terrific job with the staff. One move that might be regrettable, however, is releasing Wunsch. The way Ozzie brings in pitchers for 1 batter at times, might have made a situational lefty handy.

balke
04-25-2005, 07:32 PM
Williams did a terrific job with the staff. One move that might be regrettable, however, is releasing Wunsch. The way Ozzie brings in pitchers for 1 batter at times, might have made a situational lefty handy.

I liked Wunsch. He was always injured though :(:

Chisox003
04-25-2005, 07:36 PM
Gordon blew. I don't care what the numbers say. I went to 30 games that season, and every time, he was getting us into trouble.

(he blew 5 of 17 saves and had 6 losses for us, FWIW)

:rolleyes:

A. Cavatica
04-25-2005, 07:51 PM
He got Jon Adkins and only had to give up Ray Durham!

Hagan
04-25-2005, 11:54 PM
Getting Loaiza then trading him at the right time for Jose! This was the best move Kenny has done.

jabrch
04-25-2005, 11:56 PM
I think it is hysterical that we can't narrow it down to just 3 or 4 options - but that KW has made so many great moves. Just last year the crowd here wanted to lynch him.

Way to go Kenny - kudos to you.

FarWestChicago
04-25-2005, 11:59 PM
Just last year the crowd here wanted to lynch him.The FOBB's and FOLIP's wanted to lynch him. They have big ****ing mouths, but they do NOT represent this site. And they are having a wonderfully horrible month. :cool:

ElevenUp
04-26-2005, 12:01 AM
I was going to nominate the Roberto Alomar acquisition, but I couldn't remember which one.
:wink:

LMAO!:redneck

A. Cavatica
04-26-2005, 12:06 AM
The FOBB's and FOLIP's wanted to lynch him. They have big ****ing mouths, but they do NOT represent this site. And they are having a wonderfully horrible month. :cool:

In the 2003-2004 offseason, he deserved to be lynched, for sitting on his hands and trying to pass off Schoeneweis & Wright as major league starters.

FarWestChicago
04-26-2005, 12:13 AM
In the 2003-2004 offseason, he deserved to be lynched, for sitting on his hands and trying to pass off Schoeneweis & Wright as major league starters.Aren't you a FOBB? :rolleyes:

Tragg
04-26-2005, 12:15 AM
I think you might have to add Widger and Ozuna to Kenny's list of successful aquisitions - they're obviouisly helping us. (our bench is so much better this year, and begain its improvement last year than it was in the manuel years). Where did kenny come up with these players?

jabrch
04-26-2005, 12:16 AM
The FOBB's and FOLIP's wanted to lynch him. They have big ****ing mouths, but they do NOT represent this site. And they are having a wonderfully horrible month. :cool:

So true West...So True...

It's nice to not hear so much of them for the first month of the season. I'm sure the first time we hit a losing streak the FOLIPs will come out in force. The FOBB - they might be quiet all season. That is one PUTRID offense. Moneyball - my a$$. Beane had a team built around a bunch of fantastic players, and a Roidmonster. Zito isn't what he was. Chavez has regressed. And the best of the talent that made the "Moneyball" teams now plays in BALT, STL and ATL.

I get a lot of joy from watching the Sox play well and win. I'm not sure what gives me the second most joy this season - the fact that the Cubs are playing .500 ball, the fact that the As are playing sub .500 ball, the fact that the Yanks would need to sweep LAA just to get back to .500, or the fact that Barry Bonds is nowhere to be seen or heard from.

So far, this has been a fantastic month of baseball.

balke
04-26-2005, 12:16 AM
OBP OBP!!!

A. Cavatica
04-26-2005, 12:16 AM
I do believe statistical analysis can be useful, but I don't think all that much of Beane. I'm too pessimistic to be a FO anyone.

beckett21
04-26-2005, 12:17 AM
The FOBB's and FOLIP's wanted to lynch him. They have big ****ing mouths, but they do NOT represent this site. And they are having a wonderfully horrible month. :cool:


Happy days are these! :gulp:

santo=dorf
04-26-2005, 12:17 AM
Gordon blew. I don't care what the numbers say. I went to 30 games that season, and every time, he was getting us into trouble.

(he blew 5 of 17 saves and had 6 losses for us, FWIW)

He wasn't a closer, and he had a lot of heart. I remember reading about how the Twins broadcast showed him sitting by himself crying on the bench after that dreaded sweep back in September 2003. :whiner:

He had 3.16 ERA, 1.19 WHIP, 11.07 K/9 and netted us two draft picks, one of which was used on Gio Gonzalez (take a look at his numbers.)

jabrch
04-26-2005, 12:18 AM
In the 2003-2004 offseason, he deserved to be lynched, for sitting on his hands and trying to pass off Schoeneweis & Wright as major league starters.

He had a budget that he had to work within...What did you want him to do? Admit they sucked and had no chance, or cross his fingers and hope for the best? It's not as if he wasn't trying. He got Freddy and Contreras during the 04 season - there just wasn't anything he could do during the offseason given his constraints.

jabrch
04-26-2005, 12:20 AM
He had 3.16 ERA, 1.19 WHIP, 11.07 K/9 and netted us two draft picks, one of which was used on Gio Gonzalez (take a look at his numbers.)

I have visions of the 2007 rotation with MB, Freddy, JG, BMac and Gio.

DaleJRFan
04-26-2005, 12:20 AM
Can I put in a vote for "NOT TRADING JON GARLAND" as his best move? Imagine how we'd all feel is Javier Vasquez was 1-4 with a 6.00 ERA for us while Garland was 4-0 with a 1.80 ERA in Arizona... ugh. Kenny Williams, thanks for not trading Jon Garland.

balke
04-26-2005, 12:21 AM
Can I put in a vote for "NOT TRADING JON GARLAND" as his best move? Imagine how we'd all feel is Javier Vasquez was 1-4 with a 6.00 ERA for us while Garland was 4-0 with a 1.80 ERA in Arizona... ugh. Kenny Williams, thanks for not trading Jon Garland.


Indeed. Good call.

A. Cavatica
04-26-2005, 12:21 AM
He had a budget that he had to work within...What did you want him to do? Admit they sucked and had no chance, or cross his fingers and hope for the best? It's not as if he wasn't trying. He got Freddy and Contreras during the 04 season - there just wasn't anything he could do during the offseason given his constraints.

He was largely responsible for creating his own budget problem by spending too much on PK, Lee, Valentin, etc. He needed to do what he did THIS offseason, and unload a big salary to fill some holes.

gosox41
04-26-2005, 12:47 PM
Can I put in a vote for "NOT TRADING JON GARLAND" as his best move? Imagine how we'd all feel is Javier Vasquez was 1-4 with a 6.00 ERA for us while Garland was 4-0 with a 1.80 ERA in Arizona... ugh. Kenny Williams, thanks for not trading Jon Garland.

I thought you were talking about the illfated Garland for Erstad trade which Anaheim thankfully backed out of.


Bob

DaleJRFan
04-26-2005, 12:50 PM
I thought you were talking about the illfated Garland for Erstad trade which Anaheim thankfully backed out of.

That too.

Frater Perdurabo
04-26-2005, 12:50 PM
Can I put in a vote for "NOT TRADING JON GARLAND" as his best move? Imagine how we'd all feel is Javier Vasquez was 1-4 with a 6.00 ERA for us while Garland was 4-0 with a 1.80 ERA in Arizona... ugh. Kenny Williams, thanks for not trading Jon Garland.

Agreed! Thank goodness Kenny hasn't traded Garland away, even though he apparently tried on two occasions.

2,500 posts! :bandance:

TwinGats
05-02-2005, 04:02 PM
What about the Matt Ginter for Timo Perez trade. That's got to be up there, too. Ginter flat out sucked and Perez is an awesome bat off the bench or a fill in for a slumping starter. You go KW.

:bandance:

White Sox Josh
05-02-2005, 04:07 PM
Without a question Damaso Marte. That was a steal.

:worship: :KW

swanson24
05-02-2005, 04:11 PM
I don't think one stands out! he has done an excellent job as General Manger! I know that some Sox fans don't believe that but his philosophy of winning now as opposes to building for the future is smart. I was a little disappointed at SoxFest to see some fans get on his case for Ordonez and Lee leaving. However the overall reaction to Williams at the 05 Fest was great! The record ultimately determines a general manager and so far (knock on wood) we are playing great. I am proud to be a Kenny Williams supporter. Like Norm Van Lier says about the Chicago Bulls, "Through Thick and Thin". Awesome thread.

Baby Fisk
05-02-2005, 04:15 PM
The El Duque signing hasn't been mentioned enough. That guy will be huge for the Sox in the playoffs.

Also, any man who actually pulls up the hood of his hoodie is stylin it big time! All hail Darth Kenny! :cool:

Randar68
05-02-2005, 04:24 PM
I have a new nomination:

Trading Kip Wells and keeping (and sticking with) Jon Garland, LOL!



Note: I reserve the right to pretend I never made this post if Judy reappears by July.

jabrch
05-02-2005, 06:21 PM
He was largely responsible for creating his own budget problem by spending too much on PK, Lee, Valentin, etc. He needed to do what he did THIS offseason, and unload a big salary to fill some holes.

If he let PK and Lee walk instead of signing them, people would be bitching. He signed them, and both have been productive, and you are bitching? I'll never get some folks.

I'll give you Manos as a mistake - but that hardly caused us much long term problems. Surely that had NO impact on this year - as Valentin was off the books anyhow. Any other 5mm SS would have been no better than Manos.

I'm all for picking on KWs mistakes - but extending PK after 2002 and Lee after 2003 was hardly a mistake. Imagine the noise if he WOULDN'T have signed those guys to market value deals?

A. Cavatica
05-02-2005, 08:25 PM
If he let PK and Lee walk instead of signing them, people would be bitching. He signed them, and both have been productive, and you are bitching? I'll never get some folks.

I'll give you Manos as a mistake - but that hardly caused us much long term problems. Surely that had NO impact on this year - as Valentin was off the books anyhow. Any other 5mm SS would have been no better than Manos.

I'm all for picking on KWs mistakes - but extending PK after 2002 and Lee after 2003 was hardly a mistake. Imagine the noise if he WOULDN'T have signed those guys to market value deals?

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. He didn't have the budget to lock up two slow right-handed sluggers long-term at the two positions that are easiest to fill, and one strikeout-prone, allegedly switch-hitting shortstop, and still address the team's biggest weaknesses: starting pitching and leadoff.

As proof, I submit the insurmountable fan resentment for the Lee trade.

batmanZoSo
05-02-2005, 08:29 PM
I have a new nomination:

Trading Kip Wells and keeping (and sticking with) Jon Garland, LOL!



Note: I reserve the right to pretend I never made this post if Judy reappears by July.

Message...saved. :wink:

I agree. Sometimes the best move you make is the one you don't et cetera...

voodoochile
05-02-2005, 08:46 PM
Message...saved. :wink:

I agree. Sometimes the best move you make is the one you don't et cetera...

Yes... As someone pointed out in Chat the other night... As a fan of the 2005 White Sox I would like to thank Magglio and Bartolo for turning down the Sox contract offers.

That whole Erstad for Garland canceled trade ain't looking so bad either. Thanks, Mickey...:D: